White House Lashes Out At Republicans Over Student Loan Cancellation; Conservatives Fire Back | The Daily Wire, Aug 26th, 2022 - Attempting to paint Congress Republicans as hypocrites because they took out Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans during the COVID pandemic, which were later forgiven.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

Naked deflection. PPP was a very different program, with forgiveness designed into the program, established to prevent the mass failure of small and medium-sized businesses and the mass loss of jobs at a time of a black swan event that resulted in an unprecedented government mandate for people not to work and companies not to operate. None of that applies to student loan forgiveness. It's an apples and oranges comparison that allows the White House to avoid defending yet another bad economic decision by this White House.

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u/merpderpherpburp Aug 26 '22

Yeah for small businesses so then why did millionaires get them?

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

That is likely more of an abuse issue not related to the underlying rationale for the program. Abuse is a valid concern but it's not relevant to the student loan handout debacle nor is it one that I find particularly interesting.

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u/Vast-Combination4046 Aug 27 '22

They are pointing out the people complaining about the cost of the program for students abusing the program for business. How do you not see a problem with millionaires complaining people living paycheck to paycheck get a bailout.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

Well that may or may not be true. But complaints of this debt forgiveness are warranted. I have no PPP loans abs I have the same complaints of the bus ill-advised, unfair, student loan handout.

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u/Vast-Combination4046 Aug 27 '22

Kids got sold a future that didn't exist. We were told that taking out loans was an investment and when they graduated they didn't have the jobs they were training for.

I don't have a student loan and I'm not mad they are getting help with them.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22 edited Aug 27 '22

No, they didn’t think through their decision. They aren’t victims. If you to a car dealer that sales is going to try to sell you stuff by painting a rosy picture. If you just buy what he’s selling that doesn’t mean you aren’t on the hook for your commitment because you weren’t an informed buyer. Even if you major in a good field from a quality school, there’s still no guarantee of a job. Maybe the economy is down when you finish. Maybe you’re not willing to move where the jobs are. Maybe your grades weren’t as strong as they could have been. It all comes down to responsibility and all this handout does is reinforce “You don’t need to be responsible. We will make your neighbor pay your bills.”

I never took out a dime of student loans. Yea, scholarships covered most of my undergrad degree but I never had enough to cover housing and meals so I lived at home (which I wanted to do anyway). My grad degree was partially paid by an employer and me. But now I have to pay, not just for my stepson’s college, but those on the receiving end of a Democrat handout vote-buying scheme.

But I did make some bad choices as an undergrad student and ran up credit cards debt. But I learned my lesson on that eventually and no one ever bailed me out. Today, not only do I have only a tiny bit of debt, I don’t even make late payments. The responsible in life generally wind up doing better and Biden just made it harder for these people to learn that lesson.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

Let’s continue to make excuses for companies being shitty and predatory

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

Who is being predatory? And this involves government loans as Biden has been arrogant enough to try to cancel private loans.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

Universities and loan companies are extremely predatory. Sallie Mae did the same thing to millennials that Fannie Mae did to Gen Xers with the housing crisis. Universities take advantage of the Pell Grant and overcharge for classes that could be taught on YouTube or on the job

And neither republicans or democrats are doing a thing to stop it because both sides are profiting

Biden canceling student loan debt is like using a piece of gum to seal a hole in a sinking boat

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u/solidgold70 Aug 27 '22

Your least coherent arguement yet. Watch fox news again for some regurgitated garbage and come back tomorrow.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

It’s the old “Fox News” crutch. “I can’t deal with the substance of the argument. FOX NEWS!!!”

I don’t need Fox. In fact I was just complaining tonight that they have abandoned fair and balanced to bow to Trump. No, I am informed and synthesize the reality of events. Apparently that troubles you. Oh well.

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u/googinthegoogler Aug 27 '22

You just now decide they pander to the treasonous peach? Interesting how long that took....anyways more about responsibility please

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u/solidgold70 Aug 27 '22

Mortgage their future, saddle them with debt, ride them til they die. The cost of education has far outpaced inflation as the middle class gets fleeced again and again.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

It is true and easily viewable.

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u/BearcatCowboy Aug 26 '22

Good thing we all forced to care about what grumpy old men find interesting...

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

I didn’t ask you to care.

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u/solidgold70 Aug 27 '22

In the student loan program are the students "abused". And did you just call it a handout?

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

Abused. Yeah. Right. “I’m a victim!”

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u/merpderpherpburp Aug 26 '22

Of course you don't because it doesn't fit your narrative.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

I have no narrative. It’s called logic. Abuse is an implementation issue. Good programs and bad have abuse and alone it doesn’t automatically mean the underlying program is inherently flawed. You do realize abuse could be identified in student loans, right? Does that alone invalidate the entire concept?

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

Because they built it into the law that any business could leverage it…just needed to keep people employed. R’s and D’s as well as everyone in between leveraged this program.

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

So millionaires who own businesses should suffer losses when the government shut them down?

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u/mikehaysjr Aug 27 '22

Everyone else did.

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u/Jrusk2007 Aug 27 '22

Why didn't the millions save their money for emergencies?

My tuition cost 300% what it cost in 1980. These people shut the door behind them. If some people deserve a break, the rest of us do too.

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u/solidgold70 Aug 27 '22

Inconvenient truth, shhhh..... the "conservative" fascists dont like those.

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u/Eauji87 Aug 27 '22

So in a nutshell, “that was different”?! 🤷🏽‍♂️ spoken like a true wordsmith

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

If you want to ignore the rationale I guess you can make yourself feel better by seeing it that way. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/Eauji87 Aug 27 '22

You’re just bitter because there are people out there looking for a shot at hope and you can’t stand to see them getting the same small breaks afforded to literally every millionaire.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

I’m not bitter and certainly not because of your projected talking points that show you don’t even comprehend the positions others have. That only serves you poorly not me. It’s always good to at least understand what others think even if you don’t agree.

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u/Eauji87 Aug 27 '22

This whole side argument is riddled with statements that are polar opposite of the truth. The truth Is student debt forgiveness is only shaving of a fraction of most people’s incurred debt. Folks are still paying the majority of their debt. The majority folks debt are forgiven after 20 years of consecutive payments anyway so, again this forgiveness is a small bit of relief. If you have a problem with it, it’s probably because you’re worried about other people’s business instead of minding your own. If literal billionaires can get bailed out because their own negligence, and folks who don’t actually need PPP loans like Kanye West can get forgiveness, then educated, middle-class Americans can too.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

How is the percentage relevant? It’s not. It’s a $10k-$20k handout regardless of their total balance. How many of those were going to pay off their loans with no problem, I.e they don’t “need” It? You know why I care? I am paying for this handout since I pay more than my fair share of taxes. Not to mention I paid a portion of my grad school, am paying for a kid’s college and I’m not forcing you or anyone else to pay my bills. Also, this is very bad policy with far more downsides than upside to society. In fact, more than most policy, the balance of bad effects to good is very heavily titled to bad since there’s very little societal good.

You know how I get relief if I can’t pay my bills - which I do - bankruptcy. Now, right now that is not possible, but instead of creating a moral hazard, handing out money to people making far above US median income, penalizing responsible people who paid their loans or worked their way through school to avoid loans, not to mention encouraging more of the same tuition and fee inflation, why not work to amend bankruptcy law to give an option to those actually in distress without all of the above negatives? Easy: handouts placate the “free stuff” radical base and buys some votes. Let’s hope it puts off more among swing voters if this even survives a court challenge. Don’t spend your windfall yet folks…the court may strike this down.

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u/Eauji87 Aug 27 '22

Double standard, corporations can act unethical and spend “YOUR” tax dollars to get bailed out without much fuss from conservatives, but not those in the middle class. The fact that you see the bankruptcy issues is a step in the right direction and you see that the student loans are by nature predatory. You have no say in how others spend their dollars and they’re not your tax dollars, they’re everyone’s.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22 edited Aug 27 '22

I don’t even know what your anti-corporate rant means. Is that just canned rhetoric? And yes what’s wrong with bankruptcy? Doesn’t it allow for elevation of real distress? Is that now how other overwhelmed borrowed seek debt relief? Why are student loans different?

We don’t have a say? What do you think elections are for? What about the law? It’s funny how the left demonizes those who pay most taxes but are desperate for a piece of what they earned and then defies these high EARNers to highlight the selfishness and greed of those who want something they did not earn, not to mention their attack on personal responsibility. You don’t seem to have any hesitation on demanding some of others money which truly isn’t yours so why would you decry complaints of those who pay most taxes and more stake in the federal treasury than you do? Such hypocrisy. There’s your double standard. Plus you have no apparent shame as you thrust your hand out instead of living up to your obligations like so many others who took out loans. This is the classic leeching off society in full living color.

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u/Eauji87 Sep 21 '22

Corporate welfare subsidized companies use the largest portion of “your” tax dollars, so maybe you should recognize where you aim your anger.

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u/Eauji87 Sep 21 '22

Fallacies all around. My point was simply that tax dollars used for debt forgiveness encourages more spending in the economy. Especially towards real estate, as opposed to sinking it into a company like Sallie Mae who mishandles their operations. Additionally, I never demanded anything, the current government officials just understand the nuanced student debt dilemma.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '22

If they won’t pay their student loans we better hope they don’t buy real estate. As they sit around unable or unwilling to pay their mortgage, having been taught that Uncle Sam will take care of their finances, they could default and drag down home values for others.

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u/Eauji87 Sep 22 '22

You’re making a ton of assumptions and not so many relevant claims or analysis. If someone is paying for both at the moment currently, then this argument wouldn’t hold ANY water.

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u/bamzamma Aug 26 '22

Free money is free money. It was called a PPP LOAN, not PPP FREE MONEY.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

It was designed for forgiveness due to the extreme uniqueness of the event.

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u/bamzamma Aug 26 '22

Keep telling yourself that.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

I will. Those are the facts.

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u/bamzamma Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

So you agree that PPP "loans" were free money to keep the economy going.

If student loans go back into effect, you can kiss the current troubled economy goodbye.

The PPP loan program was a joke and has been more detrimental than loan forgiveness ever will be. The fraud is so bad that most offenders who took out loans against fake businesses will probably never be prosecuted purely based on the lack of manpower necessary to investigate and prosecute those crimes. Current estimates place total fraudulent loans at $90-$400 billion; most of which will never be recovered.

Meanwhile people like yourself feel that student loans, taken out in good faith, should be a chain to anyone who has them while allowing the government to profiteer off its citizens. The amount of liquidity that would get sucked out of this market when they go back into effect would decimate any semblance of stability we have left.

The loans may not have been designed to be forgiven, but not doing so will be much more devastating. Meanwhile PPP "loans" were the largest scam in US history.

Keep telling yourself PPP loans were meant to be forgiven. You will, but you're clearly naive and just like the part about PPP that fits your narrative.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

PPP was for a black swan event whose conditions may never repeat in our lifetime. To the fact that there was fraud, that is immaterial to the student loans. Fraud is a separate issue that should be dealt with if it happened, but it does not change the parameters on which that program has to be compared to student loan forgiveness.

Paying back student loans is a personal expense that is an ongoing responsibility in the lives of many. This is nothing like the detail of PPP and the rationale for it. And yes...if you take out a loan...news flash...it is your responsibility to pay it back. Wow. Personal financial responsibility. Shocking. We could produce a very long list of reasons it is unfair to demand others pay your personal debts. Espceially given that for someone making as much as $100k+, paying $10k of debt should not be a major financial burden. And many of the loans forgiven would likely have been paid back so so much for this very weak "stability" argument. The moral hazard created is far more devastating ultimately than the subset of people who may have to live with and hopefully learn from poor financial decisions.

Apples and oranges. And arguing otherwise is deflection.

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u/bamzamma Aug 26 '22

Both effect the economy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

That doesn't justify pushing personal expenses onto taxpayers in an "going concern" situation. Especially when that action will only exacerbate many of the problems that already exist in the system. And even Lawrence Summers, who guys ignored about the risk of inflation for the third COVID package, has noted this handout could be inflationary. How is that supposed to be good for the economy?

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u/BearcatCowboy Aug 26 '22

Damn just give up man, you're just gonna run around in circles like every fake libertarian does.

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u/floridaman711 Aug 26 '22

Don’t care. You’re bootlicking. The government doesn’t have the right to give my money to anyone. Both are steps towards communism.

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u/bamzamma Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

They are my taxes too and as someone who owns a house and has a job... I still think its the right thing to do after paying back my student loans.

Student loans take liquidity out of the system. It may be inflationary, but it's not any more inflationary than the fed's shadow bailouts upwards of $6.8 trillion that happened in 2020.

Student loan forgiveness is a bandaid for a problem that started 2 years ago.

I get where you're coming from. But we have to look back and say, "It's time to reconsider." The alternative is worse.

And in all honesty, 10k is nothing. My student loans were over 120k. My sister in law's are over 300k. She won't be getting relieved since she makes way more than 250k a year. I won't get relieved as mine are paid off.

It's a band aid that we have to use.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

The PPP was a Paycheck Protection Program because the Government MANDATED the businesses close, stay home, not operate as normal. As long as you kept 90% of your employees during (or rehired them) the pandemic were able to keep the funds AS THEY INVESTED IT IN THEIR EMPLOYEES. If they didn’t, then they HAD to pay back the money. Student loans are not MANDATED or FORCED upon anyone.

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u/misterforsa Aug 26 '22

Christ, these fucking bootlickers have an excuse, cover story, lie or some other bullshit response for everything. It's really disgusting. A loan is a loan regardless. The same reverse question these conservative reps still stands: "why should some vlue collar work pay to keep YOUR business afloat?"

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u/misterforsa Aug 26 '22

It was designed for forgiveness. So what. That doesn't really change the hypocritical response that these conservative reps are giving.

The catch phrase is "Some blue collar worker shouldnt have to pay for YOUR student loan"

Ok fair enough. But, regardless of the fact that PPP was designed for forgiveness, the point still stands. These reps took PPP LOANS and had them forgiven, making the hypocrisy almost too much to bear.

Furthermore the reverse question still stands as well "why should some blue collar worker foot the bill to keep someone else's business afloat?" . It's the same shit really.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

Nothing hypocritical at all. The situations are not even remotely similar. One was a black swan event where we were facing a potential economic abyss with businesses prohibited from operating. The situation was one where the goal was to be sure these businesses existed when we came out the other side, which was a big unknown in March-April 2020. It was the perfect example of the rare event where government intervention in the market was reasonable and warranted. The other is wiping personal obligations, many of which could likely have been paid, and creating a moral hazard as these conditions are not unique and will be repeated next year and the year after and the year after that.

IF there is hypocrisy here, it would be from people who had no issue with any of the COVID packages at the time, especially the third one which really was hard to justify, but now that it is politically convenient reverse their own position to defend their preferred politicians.

So what if the reps took loans if those loans complied with the rules established for the PPP program? What does that have to do with student loans? Nothing. And if they did not comply with the rules, that only raises an issue of fraud or abuse but that still has nothing to do with the details of Biden's handout this week (if it withstands court challenges which, given the law they are using to try to justify this, is not a given).

This is typical politics by the left and deflection due to the anger of average Americans paying the bills of others who should be paying their own way.

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u/misterforsa Aug 26 '22

Wow you guys will just jump through flaming hoops like trained circus bears to defend your overlords.

You say the two foregivnesses are nothing yet I beg to differ.

A business person takes risk. Its hard to predict when circumstances will disrupt business. Pandemic happens. Rather than suffering circumstances, they get a bailout.

A student takes risk to invest time/money into pursuing education. Its hard to predict the outcome sometimes. Cant find a decent paying job and gets drowned by debt.

You can attach whatever amendments you want to these situations. But it basically adds up to you saying the business operator has more entitlement to receive assistance than the meek college grad. In my mind the two are not so different. That's why we call you guys bootlickers.

Bottom line is, theres a student debt crisis in this nation. If the government can offer bailouts to everyone else, theres not reason some measure of bailout cant be offered to this stratum of society. For once they're actually doing something to help the average young person.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

There are no hoops. Your arguments are illogical and based on spurious comparisons, the biggest - but not only - one being that government prevented businesses from operating normally even if they wished to. That alone would have justified the program.

Tell me where in the terms of a student is a "decent paying job" guaranteed? In addition, how many of these loans where the student has legitimate difficulty paying back were for majors that a little research would have identified as having limited job prospects and/or low average salaries? That type of information is hardly unavailable.

You can claim that my points come down to whatever...but logic does not support your conclusion on that. And under normal business condition, neither merits much entitlement to a bailout, though there might be a slightly stronger argument for the business since that could impact the jobs of employees. But that would still be a weak argument in a free market capitalistic system.

You call people "bootlickers" because you can't make a reasoned argument and have to resort to playground insults. :) Bottom line is, there is a crisis of making responsible financial decisions. And this bailout only worsens that by encouraging more irresponsible behavior not to mention prompting further growth in college fees and tuition. Fortunately, this appears to be legally dubious and may not withstanding the nearly certain court challenge. That would be the best outcome since the list of reasons why this move is a bad idea on many front is long.

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u/misterforsa Aug 26 '22

Naw my argument is perfectly reasonable. I call you a bootlicker because you chose to remain ignorant to the reason .

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

Keep telling yourself that. I’m sure your subs will tell you just that. Ironic that you then call others “ignorant” with the routine historically ignorant taunt after your disconnected comparison. But…sadly not surprising.

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u/misterforsa Aug 26 '22

Bootlicker is as bootlicker does. Sadly.... it's not surprising

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u/HalfbakedArtichoke Aug 26 '22

They FORCED business to close.

You CHOOSE to take out a student loan.

Apples and Oranges. They know it. Their voters aren't bright enough to realize it though.

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u/YourFreelanceWriter Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

Forgiven PPP Loans= paid for by taxpayers Student Loan Forgiveness = paid for by taxpayers

If student loan forgiveness is a handout, then so are PPP loans. It doesn't matter how you try to twist things.

It is laughable that anyone who took out a PPP loan/"government handout" and had it forgiven has the audacity to whine and complain about student loan forgiveness/"government handout". Taxpayers are footing the bill for both.

But I'm betting that the student loan forgiveness program will have oversight so there is not the same rampant fraud that occurred with the PPP.

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

Dumb take. If they didn’t shut down businesses then PPP loans never would have existed.

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u/issofine Aug 27 '22

Who was the president when the businesses shut down? Here’s a hint, it wasn’t Biden.

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

Trump didn’t shut down any businesses. The Democrat governors did. Jeebus. This is sad.

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u/issofine Aug 27 '22

Democrat governors shut down businesses in states run by republican governors then too? Explain how that nonsense is logical

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

Any businesses restricted by Republicans did not have the same impact as those shutdown by Democrats. The governor of WA still has his emergency powers. Up until the beginning of this year King county was still requiring vaccine passports while states like FL and TX we’re letting businesses go back to normal. But yeah tell businesses who were shutdown to not take PPP loans 😁

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u/issofine Aug 27 '22

No problem with business taking PPP loans. But if you do decide to take out a loan, you agree to pay back your debt right? Shouldn’t be looking to daddy government for a handout

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

Once again you’re being stupid. If they didn’t have to shutdown they wouldn’t have applied for PPP loans. Why is that so hard for you to understand? It’s no different from eminent domain when the government takes your property, they are required to compensate you. Why should the government be allowed to shut you down without compensating you?

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u/issofine Aug 27 '22

Can you read? I just said I got no problem with businesses taking the PPP loans. During the pandemic was a hard time on businesses. BUT if you take out a loan, you are obligated to pay that loan back. Critical thinking is a rare thing to come by in the right wing huh?

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u/YourFreelanceWriter Aug 27 '22

That is not my point (although many businesses that took out PPP loans that were later forgiven were "essential" and did not suffer financially due to the pandemic; the amount of fraud associated with the program due to lack of oversight is astounding).

Tax payers paid for forgiven PPP loans. Tax payers will pay for student loan forgiveness. Tax payers also pay for tons of other things, such as pointless wars, and bailing out banks, Wall Street, and corporations.

It is hypocritical to be up in arms about student loan forgiveness, but have no issues with the PPP. This is especially true for people who actually took out PPP loans and had them forgiven.

In essence, they are both "government handouts".

Those crying the loudest are acting like they are going to start getting bills in the mail to "pay for other people's student loans".

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u/googinthegoogler Aug 27 '22

Yes, we were worried that the almost million dollars MGT got "forgiven" to keep her businesses open even though she was already triple dipping before we even get into loans. Disgusting.

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

Can you show me the part of the PPP loans which specified that someone like her was not entitled to it so I can be outraged about it? Don’t like it? Then don’t pass it.

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u/googinthegoogler Aug 27 '22

Oh sorry I thought by small and medium sized businesses you meant those who don't triple dip into tax payers money for every possible event, and then only pay the tax payers back when caught. Thanks for teaching me.

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

Don’t like it then don’t pass it. Otherwise don’t cry about it when a business owner legally uses a government programmed as designed. If you believe she’s doing something illegal then you should let the IRS know.

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u/googinthegoogler Aug 27 '22

Ah thanks, I'll use my whole states worth of empty ballots I have around the house to sway the voting, or how about this, I just donate more than the big oil guys. Seems right, right? Hey man, you got life figured out, write a book for goodness sakes.

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

Don’t like the PPP loans? Then don’t lock down businesses. Don’t lock down entire industries. Don’t blame taxpayers for using government programs as they were designed.

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u/googinthegoogler Aug 27 '22

So first it was my fault and now its the boogeymans fault? Weren't you the guy talking about responsibility. It seems like you're the last person who should use that word?

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u/misterforsa Aug 26 '22

No one forces them to operate a business. Isnt part of entrepeneuring taking that risk? Theres always the risk that unforeseen circumstance can disrupt a business.

Just the same, college grads take a risk when investing time/money in college. You cant necessarily forsee the outcome of not finding a job in a field of study.

It's really the same shit in my mind. I fail to see the difference.

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

You don’t see the difference between a government saying you are getting shut down to people willingly signing loan documents? If there were no shutdowns then there are no PPP loans

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u/sib_korrok Aug 27 '22

No business was forced to shut down

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

Weird. Wonder why they created PPP loans then.

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u/sib_korrok Aug 27 '22

Are you serious?

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

It’s obvious you’re not.

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u/sib_korrok Aug 27 '22

Oh but I am

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u/seahawkguy Aug 27 '22

You sound like a transwomen are women kind of person.

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u/Yoooooooo69 Aug 27 '22

Huh?

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u/Jrusk2007 Aug 27 '22

My CHOICE to take out student loans debt when I was 17 after my Teachers, parents, and all of society told me I should. 17-18 year olds don't know any better. We are not taught personal finance in school.

Because of the rising cost of school and personal issues I couldn't finish.

I now make decent money, everyone gets a handout from the money the government steals from me, why should I get a break?

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

You’re totally right this is logical fallacy but I don’t see Republicans attempting to pay back their PPP loans or reign in tuition costs/student loan rates. Until they do spare me the fake outrage

You’re oversimplifying the problem. It’s not that black and white

I went to school and didn’t qualify for any government assistance. Paid and worked my way through college. Eventually I was unable to take out any further loans even though I was only $20k in debt. Got stuck with the debt and was forced to drop out and take a job making a lot less than expected

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u/RedditISFascist000 Aug 26 '22

Well sure. It's totally the same thing to subsidize countless worthless degrees guaranteed to see millions of kids waiting tables who CHOSE to take out those loans. With loans designed to offset the overreaction of a gov FORCING businesses to not allow people to work. Chose and force? Totally synonymous. SMH

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u/DarthRaider523 Aug 26 '22

1) Businesses CHOSE to operate with the risk that a pandemic or regulations would affect the business. It’s not as if laws are a new idea.

2) Countless people are required by the government to get degrees in order to pursue their careers. For example, you can’t be a doctor without a degree.

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u/ddubz8722 Aug 26 '22

Chose to operate instead of what shut down and have no income???

And countless people do not need a degree to pursue their career. For example a plumber or electrician which the nation currently has a massive shortage of skill trades, if u don’t want to pay then pursue something else

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u/DarthRaider523 Aug 26 '22

No, chose to open a business knowing that pandemics and laws can disrupt your business. If you don’t want to pay then pursue something else.

So everyone should just be plumbers? No doctors, no teachers, just toilet repairmen?

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u/ddubz8722 Aug 26 '22

You do realize that despite them not being open they still have financial commitments they have to meet you make it sound like closing down is so simple and a lot of states forced them to shut down

I didn’t say that but I will say not everyone should go to University

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u/DarthRaider523 Aug 26 '22

I’m responding to the original person saying that students made a choice Togo to college. Businesses owners made a choice to open and operate with the ever-present risk of pandemics and disruptive laws. Part of being in a profit share is choosing to take on risk.

You did say that. It was stupid. We need degree holders. The vast majority of jobs with living wages require a degree. There’s a reason for that. This isn’t the 1700s. You can’t operate a modern economy with nothing but farmers, factory workers, and artisans. Every other country had figured this out, which is why they subsidize higher education so that it’s vastly more affordable than college in the US.

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u/ddubz8722 Aug 26 '22

Please share the quote where I said that lol SMH and as much as we need degree holders we need skill trades you need balance so no not everyone should go to university some people should go to trades school or community college… could you share your source where for the “majority of jobs require degrees”? Because that is wrong. Why do you look down on any other post secondary education that isn’t university?

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u/DarthRaider523 Aug 26 '22

You can get federal loans for community college and trade school. So your comment boils down to complaining that there aren’t more unskilled laborers.

https://truthout.org/articles/75-of-new-jobs-require-a-degree-while-only-40-of-potential-applicants-have-one/?amp

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u/ddubz8722 Aug 26 '22

So the government already pays for post secondary education so there are plenty of affordable options for people so if you decide to take the loan knowing the outcome so you can go to university then you should have to pay for it it’s that simple and I’m not complaining that there aren’t enough skilled trade that is fact and another fact skilled trades pay more than what a typical degree holder will make

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u/DarthRaider523 Aug 26 '22

The government doesn’t pay for it, they give out loans.

Would you say the same thing for business owners? There are less risky ways to make money like becoming a salaried employee, therefore we shouldn’t forgive PPE loans.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

[deleted]

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u/Meesterchongo Aug 26 '22

But you can agree the Twitter account is comparing apples to oranges…. Aid put into place because the government forced your business to shut down is quite different than a bailout for a contract you willingly signed for higher education

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u/Taconinja05 Aug 26 '22

Pull your self up by your boot straps..

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u/RockMars Aug 26 '22

The PPP loans were not only given to businesses that were locked down.

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u/cyrhow Aug 26 '22

Which I always found weird and unnecessary.

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u/Relative_Extreme7901 Aug 26 '22

No one forced them to go into business…

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u/BoristheDrunk Aug 26 '22

No, but the government forced people to stop or limit their businesses in 2020/21. There is a reasonable argument that the gov engaged in a 5th amendment taking with the "lock downs" and should pay. Student loans are different

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u/Relative_Extreme7901 Aug 26 '22

What businesses did the federal government shut down?

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u/sib_korrok Aug 26 '22

Zero businesses were forced to shut down

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u/BoristheDrunk Aug 26 '22

Zero businesses were forced to shut down

Is this a serious assertion? That's an astounding claim given the actual reality of the last 2 years

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u/sib_korrok Aug 26 '22

Still can't find a single business that was forced to close down.

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u/BoristheDrunk Aug 26 '22

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/burbank-puts-chain-link-fence-around-tinhorn-flats-in-efforts-to-finally-stop-operations/2570560/%3famp=1

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u/sib_korrok Aug 26 '22

A business that won't comply with regulations isn't a business that got closed due to covid19 but nice try

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

But someone did force them to close that business.

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u/Relative_Extreme7901 Aug 26 '22

Not the entity giving out the PPP loans.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

Yes….yes it was….congrats on trying to ignore reality

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u/Relative_Extreme7901 Aug 26 '22

Please tell me specifically what businesses were forced to close by the federal government.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

Every single one that could not meet ridiculous COVID rules to open. Are you really this daft or are you just playing around?

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u/Relative_Extreme7901 Aug 26 '22

Again, what federal requirements are you talking about?

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

You’re not ready to have this conversation. I’m not your research assistant. Educate and come back.

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u/AppropriateCat5316 Aug 26 '22

No one forced them to take the PPP....SHHH

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u/bamzamma Aug 26 '22

No one forced them to borrow money. They should pay it back.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

[deleted]

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u/Meesterchongo Aug 27 '22

Awfully racist to think only white business owners used PPP. Apparently minorities are incapable of owning them 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️. Your business(you)pay taxes. If you get shut down due to government implementing authoritative policy you then damn right government should have to pay up for them forcing you to close when it’s not you violating state and federal laws in order to operate. You pay for insurance for other situations such as fires, natural distasters, etc. there is no my blue state forcefully closed me at gun point and I can’t make money anymore insurance policy is there?

I wonder if businesses are what help pay taxes and get people this aid and it’s as if we are finally facing inflation fallout from finally closing them down netting lower gdp growth while increasing spending further making it harder to have opportunities for a more successful life due to lack of spending power and inflation. But yes kill American small business that has pulled those most amount of people out of poverty than anywhere in history. Steal from them to help pay off peoples elite diplomas while the trade worker, small business owner, trucker, etc who put in time and money for invests gets slapped in the face. As their jobs are deemed non desirable compared to “academia and it’s diplomas” they get to also pay for people who don’t know what a market is and all get their womens studies degrees

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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '22

You are not getting it. The PPP loan forgiveness falls under the fifth amendment.

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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '22

It's the fifth amendment. Read it and weep:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamouscrime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except incases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when inactual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person besubject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life orlimb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witnessagainst himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, withoutdue process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use,without just compensation.

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u/kinarism Aug 26 '22

So you're saying that the government who was preaching all kids should go to college no matter what it costs for decades and who's responsibility it is to manage the economy has zero responsibility for the current student loan crisis?

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u/Meesterchongo Aug 26 '22

Ah you’re one of those, that blames the government for something you chose to undertake on your own volition. The kind of victimhood mentality the democrats feed off to try and win these midterms with bread and circus

1

u/kinarism Aug 26 '22

it's ok that the goverment scammed millions of people with a ponzi scheme and I blame the victims.

FTFY

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u/RansomStoddardReddit Aug 26 '22

PPP loans were forgivable as part of the loans terms. Student loans are not.

2

u/sib_korrok Aug 26 '22

Biden just changed the terms, pray he doesn't change them again

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u/RansomStoddardReddit Aug 26 '22

This deal’s getting worse all the time!

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u/Ok_Butterscotch9590 Aug 26 '22

Republicans are hypocrites. It's the bread and butter on which they survive.

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u/LeverTech Aug 26 '22

If they paid the ppp loans back the government could recoup some of that stimulus money that I’ve heard them say is driving up inflation.

Besides, this frees up people to spend more money on goods and services which last I checked is beneficial to our economy.

0

u/WayneCobalt Aug 26 '22

It is kind of ironic that the party of lower taxes is so upset that college students and graduates will be sending less money to the government.

The Republicans had the opportunity to do this under Trump if they wanted the good PR. Their loss.

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u/3rdeye88 Aug 27 '22

I come down somewhere in the middle on this. A sensible middle ground would have been to freeze interest rates on the loans and make people pay back the principal, but of course that wouldn't be as popular and score Biden any good will with the voters he so desperately needs.

Republicans are fucking hypocrites though because they constantly vote for cooperate socialism. People act like Obama was the one who did all the bailouts but TARP was Bush. R's like them their big dumb defence contract spending. They only get mad when money is gonna go to the little guy.

I never went to University, I dropped out after a year of flunking community College. So I have no skin in this game. Buy I do know what it's like for a whole generation to be saddled with debt to the point we can't own homes. And I know that creates knock on effects that are rippling through the economy. So maybe stop being such a selfish ass and think of the big picture. Yeah full on forgiveness is stupid. But compound interest and not being able to declare bankruptcy is stupid to. At least the D's are putting some kind of option on the table. It's more than we can say for Republicans.

Also Republicans have sat on their ass for years and never been willing to do anything about this problem, it's only now that Dems wanna do something do you get pissy about it. Stop being reactionary to everything, you idiots might actually stay in charge of something instead of having to build parallel economies now. I don't sgree with how far everything has slid with the democrats, but at least they've always been the proactive bunch and have been able to wield that to much greater strength which resulted in much more political power.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

The Republicans should put their money where their mouth is. If they’re so upset about taxpayers funding a bailout that does directly to the people and not billion dollar corporations they can return the PPP loans that were forgiven and they can also work to stop predatory student loan lending and reign in college tuition costs.

They literally have the opportunity to solve this issue instead of allowing Biden to put this bullshit bandaid on it but instead they want to cry and beat their chests

No wonder America is such a shit show

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '22

Conservatives lash out over the White House lashing out at conservatives lashing out at the White House lashing out over student loan cancellation lashing out at student debt lashing out at student loan borrowers lashing out their lives in debt