r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 18h ago
More Americans believe health care is the government’s responsibility. MAGA is looking to end federal programs
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/health-care-government-americans-donald-trump-b2666060.html3.6k
u/Aware-Chipmunk4344 17h ago
Health right is a basic human right, and the government that fails to tend to this basic right by providing wholesome and thorough healthcare system is an unqualified and negligent government.
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u/jrsinhbca 17h ago
An educated and healthy population can be more productive.
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u/robert_d 17h ago
They also ask more questions because they're healthy, and educated.
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u/smarticulation 16h ago
“Can’t have that” lol
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u/AntiRacismDoctor 13h ago
If ever I were a politician, I'd build my entire career around transparency, publicly accessible records of my votes, sources of income, and financial connections. Then I'd start voting for things like no lifetime appointments, age limits in government, removing tax loopholes, and holding the economic elite accountable for paying their fair share, ranked choice voting, and universal healthcare at the intentional disaffection of corporate healthcare. Every campaign cycle would emphasize the money I didn't and don't take from corporate lobbies.
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u/laplongejr 8h ago
... and you wouldn't get elected, wondering how it is possible that your candidate has way much more money available. Corporate lobbies : "it's my way of speech!"
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u/happyfundtimes 15h ago
FYI: The Department of Education, lobbied by corporations mind you, explicitly says it's there to "produce workers for the economy". Nothing about being a safe, educated citizen, but rather "hey can you do this job for 12/h in a minimum 40/h COL society? Just ignore all the legal jargon. Make sure you don't critically think either so you can continue to be exploited by marketing and politics!"
This is what happens when people ignore the trust the devil's lies. Literally the charm and allure of "trusting without accountability" is so enticing we often time fall prey to it because our brains would prefer it. Our brains also like cocaine, meth, and all sorts of harmful things. Does that mean we should let our emotional satisfaction be the main driver in our lives? Why do you think addiction and habits are so hard to break?
God what a fucking hell it is if you don't have a nuclear family with financial stability.
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u/idk_lets_try_this 14h ago
Tbh that’s why every country funds education. It’s to prepare their citizens to be able to be productive and independent.
Although what that means in practice depends form country to country. Some teach kids 3-4 languages to be able to be successful in an international capacity. Some give everyone a period of military service where they learn other skills. Some have classes aimed at better communication between people to avoid mistakes before they happen. At least one country has “Problem-Based Learning” where they integrate skills learned in all sorts of classes, removing the divide between economics, physics and other classes. First aid class is also a thing in some countries as it’s critical at least 2 people in every household know first aid. Media literacy or programming are also a thing in some countries.
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u/minor_correction 13h ago
It changed from a 40 hours a week job to working two 29.5 hours / week jobs because that's the limit to avoid providing health insurance.
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u/caylem00 12h ago
Uh, that's what the modern school system developed in the industrial revolution was explicitly for?
To create factory workers with a baseline of knowledge, not well-rounded individuals (and to shut up all the people 'whining' about kiddies dying in mines and factory floors or getting hung for stealing bread cuz their family was starving).
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u/Magicthundercat 17h ago edited 16h ago
Or if you tie health care to employment, it is easier to keep serfs quiet and working. It is a feature, not a bug.
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u/Popular-Turnip3031 16h ago
Employer-paid healthcare started off as a good idea, but unfortunately got locked in, cuz Americans fear change. And yeah, some rich folks found out they can make money on it.
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u/Magicthundercat 16h ago
When US can offer healthcare to military and veterans and elected members of Congress, why not to all Americans?
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u/CamGoldenGun 15h ago
they're not even all that good with veterans. Look at the mess the VA is in or the large amount of homeless that are veterans.
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u/manleybones 15h ago
That's because of GOP knee capping every government attempt to do anything, so that they can later say see it doesn't work. The reality is the GOP doesn't work, but is really good at brainwashing.
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u/Magicthundercat 15h ago
I am not arguing that veterans aren't getting the short end of the stick and that VA needs better funding and improve healthcare access, but that all Americans should be able to access health care without insurance companies in the middle.
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u/GuyInTenn 7h ago
And but of course we must fund name-brand Viagra for 80 year old veterans.
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u/OrbeaSeven Minnesota 11h ago
Just a VA story. V acquaintance has multiple problems, including a leg amputation. No family. No nursing home can accommodate his internal needs so he is forever in a VA home. Don't even consider that he can see a doctor ASAP unless an emergency. Wait times are often weeks, although the VA Hospital is nearly next door. There is much paper work with changes and flips to other doctors and VA facilities. Fortunately, he has an unrelated advocate, but how many veterans do not have such help?
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u/kazzanova 16h ago
Lol, the military and veterans don't get shit compared to congress... Hell, these days I think that my employer health plan is better than theirs...
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u/Magicthundercat 16h ago
I agree that Congress gets a Cadillac plan, but at least military gets a Ford pinto plan.
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u/confused_ape 16h ago
It's seen as a reward for service to the country.
Everyone else is just a cash cow.
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u/VanceKelley Washington 15h ago
So socialized medicine (the VA health care facilities are owned by the government and the doctors/nurses/staff that work there are paid salaries by the government) is a reward that some Americans get.
But the rest of Americans don't deserve socialized medicine and are left to struggle with the private for-profit system. This reverses the traditional American belief that socialism is bad.
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u/pablonieve Minnesota 13h ago
Part of the reason is because unions wanted benefits to remain tied to specific employers. If everyone could get the same level of health coverage, then that would remove a key benefit that unions could negotiate.
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u/Competitive_Touch_86 15h ago
Employer-paid healthcare was simply a dodge around wages being frozen in WWII. It then got codified into what it is more or less on accident and simple inertia since then - there was no real forethought put into how it would work on a system level.
That single small thing had such insane multi-ordered effects throughout the economy and society it's kind of insane to think about. Probably was thought up in some board meeting as an offhand comment back in the 1940's and just sort of accidentally snowballed from there.
It was never a good idea. It caused a massive principle agent problem in the market, and was the seed that grew into the insane affordability crises we have today.
Insurance is just a drop in the bucket compared to the problems we have in the system as a whole.
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u/DillBagner 16h ago
It happened the other way around. Rich folks found a way to make money, so they lied to the people to make them afraid to change it.
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u/Chief_Chill Illinois 15h ago
The poor, tired, and sick are easier to control/manipulate. It helps even more, when those same people are also ignorant or uneducated.
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u/CamGoldenGun 15h ago
That sounds fine until that health insurance provider denies everything or the plan your employer signed up for sucks.
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u/HGpennypacker 17h ago
An educated and healthy population can be more productive.
Which is exactly why Republicans want to dismantle healthcare and the Department of Education. Keep 'em dumb and stupid and most importantly keep 'em voting Republican.
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u/hbools 17h ago
This is what gets me. A healthy consumer is a productive consumer, incentives align but still we have this mess.
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u/BootScootBoogy85 17h ago
But it means then that BigPharma can’t line the pockets of members of the GOP and the GOP can’t allow that too happen
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u/Sourpieborp 17h ago
I hate to break it to you but big pharma lines bipartisan pockets.
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u/Zexapher America 17h ago
It's mostly a gop issue, let's be honest with ourselves now of all times. The gop are looking to strip healthcare protections away from us: Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, Veteran's healthcare, 9/11 Responders Healthcare etc., all on their list to get rid of.
While Dems are putting caps on the price of prescription drugs and descheduling marijuana so it can be used for medicinal purposes on the cheap.
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u/tacoheadbob 17h ago
So? Is this your justification to not do anything about it? Every time I hear a ‘both sides’ comment, it’s usually posed as an either an attempt to defuse a topic or announcing how contrarian people can be.
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u/Steinrikur 16h ago
I broke some hardcore libertarians using this argument: "A healthy government will pay it forward, educated and healthy citizens will pay higher taxes resulting in a net gain for that government"
The rebuttals were hilariously bad.
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u/BNsucks America 17h ago edited 17h ago
Who in America GAF about having a healthy population? The health care system can't make record profits off of healthy people.
We're a capitalistic society where money rules. It's all about Us versus Them; rich vs poor; Dems vs GQP; the haves & have nots, etc.
People who earn a living representing some of our most basic needs & rights are highly compensated for their services.
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u/KokrSoundMed 16h ago
The workers in the system generally care. We don't get paid better for taking care of sicker, more complicated patients, its just a hell of a lot more complicated work. We are also all overbooked, understaffed, and don't have enough time to get to everyone.
The insurance system likes things how it is, the C-suite (non medical MBAs) love it, but everyone else in the system hates it.
Physicians and nurse compensation also isn't the problem, physician pay is 6-8% of the system. Remember, 50%+ of physicians are primary care, which is peds, Family medicine, internal medicine, the extremely high salaries most people hear about are doctors in much smaller specialties like radiology, anesthesia, surgical specializations like neurosurgery.
While I think we could rein in some salaries, Orthopedics for instance is fairly overpaid, mostly because an orthopedic surgeon was hired by the feds to come up with the rate schedule back in the day, others are fine, or even underpaid considering the debt required to become a physician, and the massive necessary time investment to become a physician.
The "labor is the problem argument" is directly from the insurance companies, it is propaganda designed to focus the anger on the wrong part of the system so they can keep their golden goose.
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u/BNsucks America 16h ago
Thanks for taking the time to explain and give us a better understanding.
Why are med schools so expensive, especially if the return on your investment (income/salary) is allegedly so low?
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u/neilthedude 15h ago
Let's be clear: the ROI is not low. Doctors make good money and live good lives. It's hard work and they do have to make a substantial upfront investment in their time and money, but it usually pays off handsomely.
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u/Grenflik 17h ago
I’m trying to imagine “wholesome” with the GOP/Conservatives, it just doesn’t work.
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u/bnh1978 17h ago
US Constitution
Aricle I: Legislative Branch.
Section 8.
Clause I.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States;
General Welfare has always been hotly debated. What does that mean?
Does our legislative branch meet those expectations?
Should the People bring suit against the US that they are not meeting the standard for general Welfare? How would we test that? Is that even possible? I know this SCOTUS would likely not hear it or would rule that welfare only referred to goats or something.
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u/confused_ape 15h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_for_the_relief_of_sick_and_disabled_seamen
Obviously the founding fathers didn't have a problem with legislating healthcare for groups of people deemed "essential" to the national interest.
Covid might suggest that "essential" has since expanded to include much more than Billy Bones.
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u/HAL_9OOO_ 17h ago edited 17h ago
America's voters have consistently voted against improving our health care system for 50 years. Stop blaming The Government.
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u/EvilStevilTheKenevil 15h ago
Yeah, there is no polite or kind way to say it but the US is a nation of bigots, morons, and lunatics.
Things will only get worse until this changes.
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u/TheCaptainDamnIt 11h ago
Reddit healthcare warriors fundamentally do not understand conservatives, even poor ones do not think everybody deserves healthcare (especially if that person isn't white). So while they say they want government subsidized healthcare they only want it for people 'just like them' and will oppose any programs that helps those they think don't deserve it.
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u/v4riati0ns 15h ago
Yeah, if the government is so bad then we need to show up to vote them out. If we keep electing a bad government then it’s the populace that’s “unqualified and negligent” in this respect.
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u/Howdoyouusecommas 14h ago
Unfortunately most Americans have no idea even how the broad strokes of our government works. Most people simply are not qualified to judge who's policies are generally in line with what they want or what would benefit them the most long term.
Unfortunately democracy is the best system we have so far for the general population to participate in their governance. To function at out best we would need a robust education system to ensure most of the population has a working knowledge of how things work.
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u/pablonieve Minnesota 13h ago
This is unironically why the Founders didn't include universal suffrage in the Constitution. They believed that democracy should be reserved for those with the education, standing, and means to understand the ramifications of governing actions. It was very anti-populist and very elitist.
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u/OutsideOwl5892 16h ago
If you believe this you should vote and organize the vote more
This country has around 18-28% voter turnout for primary elections, depending on the year.
40% turnout for midterms and 50-60% for presidential elections. Think of that - not even half the voting population shows up some presidential elections, let alone everything down stream which is just as important.
Young people are the least likely to vote btw.
If you’re not even participating or trying to organize to get the shit you claim to so desperately want then you can’t really complain when you don’t get it
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u/Daveinatx 15h ago
Voting affects the youngest the longest, however they're the easiest to manipulate. "All sides the same, my vote doesn't matter..." The GOP knows this and floods the messages.
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u/happyfundtimes 15h ago
Literally! Nobody votes or gets involved. They think its too complex and then just do something easier. It's designed to be that way.
Literally being involved in politics is as simple as working (you're paying taxes), buying (sales tax, product regulation from federal and state departments), using public services (run by taxes), working (you're paying taxes).
TAXES aren't the issue. TAX ALLOCATION is the issue. You can literally keep the same taxes, remove the waste through laundering, nepotism, private partnerships, and fiscal greed, and you will have a much better quality of life with tax cuts to spare. You're complaining about quality of services? That's an issue with tax allocation. As someone who's worked in government for years, I can PROMISE YOU your taxes are going towards doing the BARE MINIMUM of services while the rest is laundered.
And yes, these have all been by conservatives. This method is called "starve the beast", where they literally do the absolute effective minimum by federal grants, not even, and then pocket the rest. Nobody stops them because its corrupt from the top down. Especially in the South.
I'm not saying vote democrat because people in New York and Chicago have been laundering as well with organized crime ties, but I'm URGING people to do some bare bones research on your candidate for at least ONE HOUR before you vote. Vote in your local, state, and federal elections. YES!! EVEN THE 2026 CONGRESS ELECTION!
Look into who funds them, who they support, etc. Much of what is done behind closed doors runs everything.
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u/GreyLordQueekual 15h ago
You want people to focus for an hour per potential candidate when the world is focused on 10-30 second clips with a frame switch every 3-4 seconds? I agree with you, I just don't see this ever being a possibility.
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u/misterrandom1 Washington 15h ago
I don't even understand why young people don't vote. I have 3 adult kids (18-24) and I nag them all about voting and make sure that they confirm that every one of their friends are registered and actually vote each election. Apparently, I'm in the minority on this? Teaching kids to vote is so fucking easy as a parent.
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u/ThisNameDoesntCount 17h ago
Americans believe in single payer.. doesn’t vote for single payer politicians
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u/cumguzzlerxtreme 16h ago
Democrat policies are popular.
Democrats themselves are very unpopular.
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u/Tough_Dish_4485 16h ago
I like Democratic policies, but Republicans tell me to hate Democrats. What am I to do?
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u/atooraya I voted 15h ago
Memorize political slogans and hate marginalized people for your woes of course.
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u/jlndsq 12h ago
My plan is to gravitate to whichever political subculture seems to match my personal identity, and then let that dictate my policy preferences. If I'm an insecure man, for example, I'll scramble to avoid anything that might come off as effeminate (e.g., concern for others) and instead endorse whatever seems violent or cool.
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u/sexfighter 13h ago
Yep. Just need an immigrant to kill a white woman every few years and they will believe they are getting invaded
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u/NewSubWhoDis 15h ago
I like Democratic policies, but Republicans
tell me to hate Democratshate the same people I do.FTFY
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u/LavishnessAlive6676 15h ago
They dislike Democrats because they associate them with marginalized people and don’t want to be replaced
The GOP is the White Party, and they are voting first and foremost for their Whiteness to be prioritized
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u/medusa_crowley 15h ago
Blame Dems for everything Republicans do while simultaneously saying that we’re in a class war and the press is what keeps us divided.
I belong to a party of goddamn fucking idiots.
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u/YourFreeCorrection 15h ago
They're unpopular because they "can't get anything done", and they "can't get anything done" because our system of government fundamentally requires a large majority consensus of leadership across all three branches of government to be able to enact policy and build programs, while it requires appointing and approving a judge to break something down.
Our government is broken because the people who actually want to fix the issues we're facing are blocked by the people who profit off of a government that isn't functioning properly.
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u/1_800_Drewidia 16h ago
Democrats don’t support single payer.
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u/black_flag_4ever 16h ago
The Progressives do, and it shouldn't be a surprise that they are vilified the most. It's not an accident or mistake that GOP talking heads attack AOC nonstop.
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u/NocturneSapphire 15h ago
It's not just the GOP. The Democrats could have made AOC ranking member of the Oversight Committee, but they chose a 74 year old cancer patient instead.
That's a huge middle finger to progressive, directly from the Democratic Party and its leadership.
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u/Fit_Perspective5054 14h ago
You're not wrong but you're also not talking about the same thing, quick pivot though.
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u/1_800_Drewidia 16h ago
They’re also attacked by the leaders in their own party. The progressives aren’t in charge of the Democrats. If they were, Dems might actually be able to win and keep power.
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u/porkbeefhorsechicken 16h ago
I still doubt that considering half the country is brainwashed into think people like AOC are America-hating commies.
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u/ScorpionTDC 15h ago
Look at how many people in NYC voted for AOC then went and voted for Trump. Generally speaking, outside the most die hard of altrighters, there’s a begrudging respect there of “Well, I think she at least cares and wants to try to fix things unlike Schumer, Pelosi, Hillary, Biden, etc. who are clearly greedy politicians that don’t care at all.”
If she could just make it through a DNC primary, I think she’d stand an actual shot. Especially since republicans haven’t found a successor who appeals to Trump’s cult. The DNC will just make sure that never, ever happens as they’d sooner have the Republican in power
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u/1_800_Drewidia 15h ago edited 14h ago
Fighting for popular policies that will actually improve people’s lives cuts through that nonsense. Look at Mexico, where they just elected a Jewish socialist woman to the presidency with an overwhelming mandate. Why? Because her party spent the last 5 years doing everything they could to enact the things average Mexican citizens want.
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u/ScorpionTDC 15h ago
And that the Dems themselves fuck her over at every turn too. They’re owned by the same corporate heads when it comes to stuff like healthcare, sadly
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u/Daveinatx 15h ago
They try. ACA would have been far better if they had 60 Democratic senators. Republicans filibustered every vote.
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u/cumguzzlerxtreme 16h ago
Fair point, while the progressives in the party do support it in some form, the party as a whole is divided on it in a way that makes progress (hah) impossible. Better way to phrase it - "Progressive policies are popular but progressives are not."
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u/Choice-Highway5344 16h ago
Obama did, and it’s hkmelped millions, and dems aren’t the ones taking that away. Blame the real monsters
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u/icouldusemorecoffee 16h ago
Despite the naysayers below you're correct. The public option and the individual mandate were both tools to move the entire country towards single payer. There was a 0% chance that we could have overhauled the entire US healthcare system in a single piece of legislation to be single payer, but ensuring (or outright forcing) every person to be covered by govt managed insurance was the first and an enormous step to shift our system to a single payer system. Unfortunately the media, voters, and the courts, stopped it from happening (voters by way of giving the GOP control of the House after the ACA was passed).
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u/1_800_Drewidia 16h ago
The last time there was a movement for single payer within the party, the entire leadership - including Obama - mobilized to crush it. It’s one of the few things they succeeded at in the last eight years.
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u/bslade 16h ago
My memory is, that with the divided Congress Obama had to deal, with passing even just the ACA (Obamacare) was barely possible. It was a tremendous success that they managed to squeak it through. And it came very very close to getting rolled back at one point. To say Obama didn't want to pass something stronger is just wildly inaccurate.
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u/Sir_thinksalot 14h ago
Joe Lieberman != the Democrat's entire leadership. Perpetuating this type of misinformation will make it harder to pass progressive goals.
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u/Larry_The_Red 15h ago
My state (Missouri): voted to end abortion ban and make future bans unconstitutional. Voted to raise minimum wage. Voted against right-to-work.
Also Missouri: elected republicans in 70% of contested races
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u/fullshard101 14h ago
The issues, when read on a piece of paper, are completely obvious. Then they vote for whatever name they've heard more times. Restaurants, diners, hotels, and all kinds of businesses play fox News by default which drives home that name recognition
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u/ThisNameDoesntCount 15h ago
Idk if this is what happened but I’ve heard people apparently vote like that for “balance”
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u/xTheMaster99x Florida 12h ago edited 10h ago
Even the majority of Floridians voted for both right to abortion and for recreational weed - 57.2% and 55.6%, respectively. Unfortunately the measures failed anyway because Florida requires 60% of the vote for ballot measures to pass. Which is hilarious in a way, because the ballot measure in '06 that put in the 60% requirement only passed with a 58% majority - so it couldn't meet its own standard, yet we're all stuck with it regardless.
Then the same Floridians voted straight red by an equally large majority. Just baffling that there are so many people willing to simultaneously vote for dem policies and against dem candidates, with zero shame.
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u/Cold_Breeze3 14h ago
Is this really surprising? Each campaign has hundreds of policy issues being discussed, do you seriously believe that one candidate can possibly check every single box?
There surely a sizable block of people with political views taken from both parties. Maybe they liked Trumps economy more than Bidens, but they are also pro-abortion. With the ballot measure they can vote for both of the things they want.
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u/auandi 14h ago
Depends on how you phrase it. Because "do you want the government to cancel your private insurance and give you a government-run healthcare plan" which is a fair description of what transitioning to single payer would look like, Americans are 2:1 opposed to the idea.
Now, if you talk just public option that does get majority support. But that's not single payer, and so it gets attacked by many on the left of the spectrum as some kind of half-measure.
You want single payer? We need to convince people of it and stop pretending like we've already won the argument.
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u/Spotted_Howl 16h ago
Because single payer politicians tend to support other policies unpopular with centrists and conservatives
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u/Criseyde5 15h ago
Not only that, single payer politicians become associated with policies unpopular with centrists and conservatives, regardless of their actual positions on the issues, because the media ecosystem reinforces these beliefs.
So, it isn't just "I like single payer, but dislike AOCs position on the environment (or whatever), it is also "I like single payer, but don't like that AOC wants single-payer so that she can prioritize giving sex change operations to criminal immigrants"
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u/EndlessSummer00 15h ago
This is the closest we’ve ever been to it. The right politician who can break it down super easily for the dumbest among us to understand will be able to affect more change than Obama. We just need to keep up the momentum and INFORM our maga family about the actual stats. We pay the most of any country to get substandard healthcare and go into debt personally (or die). Meanwhile health insurance is a trillion dollar industry that has enough profit to pay a ceo $10 million a year.
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u/Mysterious_Help_9577 17h ago
The government was supposed to prevent monopolies from forming. We need a trust buster in office, problem is these companies own the House and Senate now too.
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u/downtofinance 17h ago
The government was supposed to prevent monopolies from forming
The government was also not meant to be up for sale to the highest bidder via Citizens United.
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u/jrsinhbca 17h ago
Unfortunately, corporate lobbyists will never allow the USA to have cost-effective healthcare.
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u/TheQuadeHunter 10h ago
Health insurance is not a monopoly. A monopoly is when a single company controls the industry. There are 900 insurance companies in the US.
In fact, that's actually the entire problem with US healthcare. If it were a monopoly, there wouldn't be as many hoops to jump through and there wouldn't be in-network BS to deal with. People are advocating for the government to monopolize it, or at least provide their own option so the other companies have to compete with the option that doesn't focus on monetary incentive.
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u/craniumcanyon 18h ago
Healthcare and Education should be part of National Defense.
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u/lorefolk 17h ago
Unfortunately, those things are part of National Capitalist Attack.
Healthcare: limit the mobility of the working public to peons.
Education: limit to cohesive understanding of how failed fascist policies are
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u/12345Hamburger 18h ago
It's literally in the very first sentence of the Constitution.
Oh, wait... I forgot how MAGA hates that thing.
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u/BNsucks America 17h ago
Talking about universal health care, a far greater percentage of Americans supports pro-choice, yet Trump, GQP lawmakers, and SCOTUS overturned Roe, and more & more red states have since criminalized abortion.
Who GAF about what Americans want????
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u/Chief_Chill Illinois 15h ago
When you are an Oligarch, you can just grab them by their Constitution.
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u/bslade 15h ago
Actually, the "post contitutional order" is being incorporated into the theology of the MAGA extremists:
"Russell Vought [nominee for head of the OMB], one of the architects behind Project 2025, believes there is nothing left to conserve. He desires revolution – and to burn down the system"
Vought says:
“the hour is late, and time is of the essence.” The “woke and weaponized” leftist regime “is now increasingly arrayed against the American people,” treating patriotic parents as “domestic terrorists” and “putting political opponents in jail.” But all is not lost yet. Because in Donald Trump, a savior has arrived, an “existential threat” to the leftist regime, one who can “break the political cartels.” But the only way to save America is to recognize “that we are living in a post-Constitutional time.” Just winning elections and “meddling at the margins” will not be enough. Patriots on the Right, Vought concludes, must decide to “cast ourselves as dissidents of the current regime and to put on our shoulders the full weight of envisioning, articulating, and defending what a Radical Constitutionalism requires in the late hour that our country finds itself in.”
Keep in mind, this guy was actually worked in the bureaucracy. He knows how to get things done and he'll be in a very very powerful position behind the scenes (head of the OMB). He's a scray combination of extremists and competent (usually they don't go together)
https://thomaszimmer.substack.com/p/meet-the-ideologue-of-the-post-constitutional
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u/im-at-work-duh 10h ago
Yep! I've been saying for years that the preamble to the constitution clearly spells out the federal governments responsibilities to the people.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
To me, general welfare would cover food, water, shelter, medicine, and education. How could it possibly be interpreted to mean anything else?!
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u/FancyKiwi 17h ago
Right wingers agree with a lot of left wing policies and not a lot of right wing ones until they hear who supports it or whose idea it was
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u/LayeGull 15h ago
I run this experiment with my “conservative” friends constantly. Almost never fails.
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u/rckid13 15h ago
It's funny how many people poled hate Obamacare but like the Affordable Care Act
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u/TheCaptainDamnIt 12h ago
That's because "Obamacare" is a dogwhistle for conservatives. For them it means 'healthcare for urban black people'. Whereas the ACA means 'healthcare for rural white people'. So when conservative whites say they oppose Obamacare but like the ACA what they are really saying is 'I don't think black people should have the same health coverage as white people'. It's what they meant by the whole 'hurting the right people' thing (which was said in the context of loosing ACA coverage).
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u/High_Contact_ 18h ago
If only everyone had warned us…
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u/OvertonGlazier 16h ago
It was basically the Bernie Bros screaming it and everyone else shushing them.
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u/Jsmooth123456 16h ago
Including corporate dems
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u/OvertonGlazier 16h ago
Oh definiteyl, I have never seen the DNC punch as hard as when they went against Sanders supporters. If they showed half that fight against the GOP, we'd be in a much better position.
It wss truly an eye opening moment for me and I think it broke this delusion I had about the Dems. I used to defend them vehemently and loyally, epseiclaly during the Bush and Obama years.
That loyalty is gone as is the enthusiasm that was once there. Thinking about how 2016 and 2020 went for Sanders supporters just fucking hurts. That's not a feeling that is going to make you feel love for a party. And to be clear, the GOP is way way way worse objectively. But it doesn't make the feeling of betrayal by the Dems feel any better.
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u/stopchooingsoloud 12h ago
Seriously what are my taxes going to? It should be health care and education first.
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u/ImmoKnight 17h ago
I think the funniest thing about all this is that the person who won kept screeching about America First.
Then plans to cut all American programs.
Honestly, a successful society should have means to give you free/affordable healthcare and education. Additionally, the best way to maintain a strong workforce and one that is capable of meeting new demands is these two things. A strong workforce = Making America Great. Literally the opposite of the shit Republicans want to do.
I know some of you are going to argue that housing should qualify as well. Housing is more difficult as it is a finite amount in the world. Even if you keep expanding it, there is only so much available.
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u/Fluffy_Ad_6581 17h ago
He was screeching White America though and he's cutting the American Plans because its helping Non Whites.
In their minds and the minds of their voter base, non whites are not Americans.
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u/crushinglyreal 15h ago
My coworker was telling me about how he wasn’t crushed by debt since Medicaid paid for the birth of his third child. Later said he didn’t vote but would have voted Trump. Incredible.
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u/Raa03842 17h ago
Maga morons only want to get rid of Obama Care. The rest like the Affordable Care Act can stay. 😉
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u/jakeswaxxPDX 14h ago
I have a concept of a plan, just change the name to TrumpCare or the MAGA Care act and start thanking Trump for it repeatedly telling him over and over he’s such a genius and he really owned Obama and the Libs with this one. It would probably be expanded and passed into law. America gets free health care and Trump gets to pat himself on the diaper.
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u/Raa03842 12h ago
Now that’s a concept of a plan. Kudos However most maga morons won’t be able to afford any premium no matter how low cuz they spent all their money on maga moron swag.
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u/Krojack76 14h ago
100% of Americans could want universal healthcare but we won't get it because half of them still vote in idiots that refuse to give it to us.
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u/RetiredHotBitch Texas 13h ago
We are the only westernized nation that can’t figure out. 30 something others can. We just don’t want to.
But some voted for this, so here we are…
Just had to vote for the lady.
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u/ClosPins 15h ago
If Americans wanted more healthcare, they shouldn't have voted for the party that wants to take it all away from them then! Actions have consequences.
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u/slicwilli 12h ago
The only Americans who don't want universal healthcare are the ones making money kepping the system the way it is now.
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u/cwk415 17h ago
The U.S. is the only advanced nation that doesn't do this already. There's a very simple reason, corporations control too many of our elected officials, and therefore they can dictate policy.
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u/SevereEducation2170 16h ago
This country is full of voters who consistently vote against what they actually want. Just look at FL this year. 57% of voters there voted in favor of a right to abortion amendment…meanwhile 56% voted for Trump. A guy who openly said he was voting against said abortion amendment. It doesn’t get any more clear that voters in the US are fools.
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u/mn25dNx77B 14h ago
You should really hear the Nixon tape from the oval office when they first created hmos
It's disgusting. From second one, they knew they would be killing people for money
It's part of sicko which is free on YouTube
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u/Lucky-Development-15 14h ago
They can't even take proper care of veterans now. I can only imagine what happens to my care after they cut VA benefits.
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u/BehaviorControlTech 17h ago edited 12h ago
I worked in patient registration for a number of years.
Taking copays, figuring out "co-insurance" percentages, billing, etc.
Those that were truly poor, full Medicaid, had it the best. The could go into Urgent Care for a cough, get a prescription, and pay a dollar for it at CVS. They are fully covered for everything.
"Obamacare" (ACA) was a drive to get everyone insurance. Our post-Luigi dialogue has veered to the revelation that "being insured" sometimes isn't what you thought. Fighting a monolith to get the bills you thought would be covered paid at all.
I believe a government option for all would be the best route. It may involve waits, sure. But you will get treated and not have a surprise 10 thousand dollar bill because UHC decided your hospital stay wasn't covered after all. Punishing you, like you chose to do it, a personal stay-cation.
One will be able to purchase premium care packages, specialty care. A national discussion and conversation on this matter can occur.
As far as NOW?
American's have become apathetic and insular. Living in their own information bubbles, hearing what they want to hear.
Maybe I'm wrong, but Trump's billionaire-centric administration will tear down these social safety nets we have taken for granted. Show us all how bad things can truly be. HOPEFULLY enough for people to start paying attention.
If not, we can look at world history to the rise and fall of various civilizations and oligarchies.
"It can't happen here!"
I'm sure that has been said before throughout history as well.
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u/shivermeknitters 15h ago
Medicaid is fucking stellar if you have it right now. Need an x-ray for a broken bone? Done. Need followup ortho care? Paid.
Think you have a staph infection? Need a toenail to not be fucked up anymore? Need glasses? Done and done and done.
Preventative and regular care being covered is HUGE and would help everyone. But they don't want that.
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u/Shamazij 14h ago
The downside is the best places for treatment generally don't accept Medicaid. If you have Medicaid you are almost certainly getting lower quality care than someone with a private insurance payer.
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u/tgt305 17h ago
The US government subsidizes oil which is burned and pollutes our lungs, or turned into microplastics that embed in our guts and cause cancer. The US government subsidizes corn for fructose which gives us diabetes at a more rapid rate. The US government deregulates industry so they can dump waste into our drinking water supply.
The least the US government could do in return is cover the costs of us suffering for their return on profits.
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u/LiquifiedCrab 13h ago
Anything needed for basic survival and shelter should be truly nonprofit and heavily regulated. Housing, healthcare, food, education, and power/water/telecom, all fall in this category. Additionally, any large city should be required to have a robust public transit system that allows for car free existence.
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u/Foreign-Cellist895 17h ago
And they will succeed because in the end, Americans always give in to the rich.
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u/JCPLee 17h ago
The superficiality of this reporting is astounding. Polls are useless unless they measure real world priorities and as was clearly demonstrated by the recent election results, government health care is not a priority. Sure people say they believe it’s a government responsibility but they don’t think it’s important. It definitely falls below protecting pets from being eaten by dirty brown immigrants and stopping middle school teachers from performing sex change surgeries at school during recess. This is our reality. If you ask people whether social security is a government responsibility or affordable education or any other government benefit is important, they will say yes, but those answers are irrelevant and ingenuous because all that matters is how people vote.
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u/sugarlessdeathbear 14h ago
It's literally in any government's best interest to ensure it's population is healthy.
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u/Njorls_Saga 16h ago
Polling in this country is bizarre. Strong majorities believe in healthcare, abortion rights, sensible gun legislation, etc. Yet people consistently vote in people who are against the very things they profess to want. Either polling is broken or the electorate is broken.
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u/WhalersOnTheMoon13 16h ago
But have you considered how they might feel about women's highschool athletics? Just going to ignore the real problems our society is facing?
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u/stugautz 16h ago
Every time Trump makes a joke about Canada joining as the 51st state, there needs to be rumors spread that some southern states like Louisiana want to join Canada for the healthcare.
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u/sweetestdeth Texas 16h ago
But Americans vote for fake strongmen who campaign on taking away their healthcare.
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u/danfromwaterloo 13h ago
If you put healthcare in the hands of the free market, money will always be the priority. When you put healthcare in the hands of the government, people are the priority.
It's the same reason why police and justice aren't run by companies. It's the same reason why public schools aren't run by companies. The priority for these industries must be the people and the services.
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u/NocturneSapphire 16h ago
Then more Americans should have fucking voted. God damn I'm already tired of stories about Americans getting exactly what we voted for. IF YOU WANTED GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE THEN WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR THE ANTI-GOVERNMENT CANDIDATE holy fuck
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u/StenosP 17h ago
The government is ours and if we want to use government to provide us healthcare because it’s too cost prohibitive individually, then we need to elect people who will listen and act
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u/Gamerxx13 16h ago
Do they? It seems like most of America doesn’t vote this way. I would think Harris could be moved there vs trump. People elected trump bc he’s gonna really destroy health care by trying to repeal Obama care.
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u/Active-Read-7097 16h ago
Local to me in rural Pennsylvania I know many small business owners voted for Trump. Almost all of them used Obama Care or very inexpensive state insurance (for their children) meanwhile my is paying almost $500 a month to cover me and our daughter.
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u/icouldusemorecoffee 16h ago
It’s the entire gop not just maga. Until journalists recognize that none of trumps policies are unique to him or maga they’re all gop policies the public is never going to see them for who they are.
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u/Wishdog2049 16h ago
I'm hoping this attempted authoritarianism is the straw that broke the camels back, enough is enough, to get the people of the US to realize that, yes, we can have good stuff like the smaller countries.
But my brain keeps telling me we're going to be Night City but dumber.
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u/awesomedan24 I voted 16h ago
More Americans either didn't vote or voted against their own alleged beliefs then...
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u/tosser1579 16h ago
Trump RAN on gutting the ACA, and lowering medicare/medicaid. This should be a surprise to no one, well except for the ignorant.
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u/iMichigander 14h ago
I don't think it's government's responsibility, per se. But I do believe that everybody should have access to affordable healthcare. How we get to that is probably a combination between public and private solutions, legislation, price controls, etc.
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u/HectorJoseZapata 14h ago
Just in case somebody doesn’t know, (because ignorant’s comments like “it’s not a human right”), US politicians have THE BEST ACCESS to expensive healthcare, all paid up by taxpayers.
Let that sink in when they tell you it’s too expensive for you and me, coming from the elite class.
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u/SnottNormal New York 14h ago
More Americans need to vote, then. Until then, concepts of plans for all.
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u/Certain_Selection842 14h ago
imagine if Obamacare had been more robust. or if medicare for all was finally implemented. this CEO might still be alive. republicans have more to do with his murder than anything.
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u/FreneticPlatypus 14h ago
When will you people learn? In the US, there is NOTHING that will stand in the way of profit.
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u/ChthonicFractal 13h ago
So the article title lays out the entire problem: If you want the government to be responsible for healthcare then eventually an administration will reverse that (unless it's made into law but we see how RvW went so I wouldn't hold my breath just yet).
Yes, healthcare should be a perk of being in the country (legally) but the only hand the government should have in it is ensuring that it's available for no charge or next to no charge. Politicians are not doctors just like insurance is not healthcare.
If you're screaming for insurance, you're still. missing. the point.
The incoming administration is evidence enough that it needs to not be in the hands of the government. Eventually people will figure this out but until then, until the conversation is forced to be that, it's going to fail and we're going to be stuck in this clusterfuck of a system where the only way to make statements that will be heard is to do something that will get you arrested.
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u/Friendly-Company-771 12h ago
Health care was made into a business. As long as it is treated as such, it will never be good enough.
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u/Deep-Werewolf-635 11h ago
American Healthcare has ironically been a death by a thousand cuts. It’s so out of control at this point I have a hard time seeing any path to fix it until it collapses. There’s so much money is the system that is required now to keep it going and nobody knows what anything really costs because it’s all hidden behind closed systems designed to do that very thing. Insurance companies are designed to pay as little as possible. Healthcare providers charge anything they want, knowing it’s all a shell game as to what they will be able to get. Employers are trying to avoid benefit costs any way they can. People have no idea and just take whatever they can get and are scared senseless of losing what coverage they have. It doesn’t have to be this way.
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u/dope_sheet 8h ago
Here's a wild idea. Don't let insurance companies lobby against a governmental universal health care program. Let insurance companies provide more expensive care that people can opt to pay for, but let there be a base-line coverage every American is entitled to through a government program. And if the Insurance companies say that is unfair, they can remember that the majority of Americans don't want them to exist and that they are allowed to exist at the pleasure of the majority of Americans.
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u/flojo2012 5h ago
Too bad Americans don’t like to look at political stances BEFORE elections. And not like Democrats would have been able to enact a universal system anyway. Couldn’t even get the mandate in ACA. We keep electing people that don’t have the interests of the people in mind on these issues.
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u/timetogetoutside100 17h ago
I wonder if many who voted for Trump are already having Voter's remorse? then again it's s cult, so probably not
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u/Present-Industry4012 Inuit 14h ago
As long as brown and black people are getting it worse they'll think they're coming out ahead.
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u/Suitable_Specific837 15h ago
Most MAGA people are on federal programs. Not smart enough to know it.
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u/milelongpipe 17h ago
It’s beyond me that health care is such a combative issue. A hundred or more years ago, industry had factory infirmaries to help keep the work force healthy. Why our government feels our population doesn’t matter is beyond me. Both industry and our government depend on a healthy population and work force.
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