r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 1d ago

More Americans believe health care is the government’s responsibility. MAGA is looking to end federal programs

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/health-care-government-americans-donald-trump-b2666060.html
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u/Aware-Chipmunk4344 1d ago

Health right is a basic human right, and the government that fails to tend to this basic right by providing wholesome and thorough healthcare system is an unqualified and negligent government.

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u/jrsinhbca 1d ago

An educated and healthy population can be more productive.

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u/robert_d 1d ago

They also ask more questions because they're healthy, and educated.

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u/smarticulation 1d ago

“Can’t have that” lol

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u/BagHolder9001 1d ago

"no school for poors" -elmo

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u/MaybeTheDoctor 17h ago

“You’re already lost if you need school” — Elmo

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u/teddybrr 1d ago

time for free access to drugs to make them happy!

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u/AntiRacismDoctor 1d ago

If ever I were a politician, I'd build my entire career around transparency, publicly accessible records of my votes, sources of income, and financial connections. Then I'd start voting for things like no lifetime appointments, age limits in government, removing tax loopholes, and holding the economic elite accountable for paying their fair share, ranked choice voting, and universal healthcare at the intentional disaffection of corporate healthcare. Every campaign cycle would emphasize the money I didn't and don't take from corporate lobbies.

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u/laplongejr 23h ago

... and you wouldn't get elected, wondering how it is possible that your candidate has way much more money available.   Corporate lobbies : "it's my way of speech!" 

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u/AntiRacismDoctor 20h ago

Its not like I'm running...lmao...I know I wouldnt get elected.

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u/baddog2134 18h ago

Accept for Bernie. Maybe the Democratic Party can one day find a road to his politics and success. One can only hope at this point.

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u/happyfundtimes 1d ago

FYI: The Department of Education, lobbied by corporations mind you, explicitly says it's there to "produce workers for the economy". Nothing about being a safe, educated citizen, but rather "hey can you do this job for 12/h in a minimum 40/h COL society? Just ignore all the legal jargon. Make sure you don't critically think either so you can continue to be exploited by marketing and politics!"

This is what happens when people ignore the trust the devil's lies. Literally the charm and allure of "trusting without accountability" is so enticing we often time fall prey to it because our brains would prefer it. Our brains also like cocaine, meth, and all sorts of harmful things. Does that mean we should let our emotional satisfaction be the main driver in our lives? Why do you think addiction and habits are so hard to break?

God what a fucking hell it is if you don't have a nuclear family with financial stability.

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u/idk_lets_try_this 1d ago

Tbh that’s why every country funds education. It’s to prepare their citizens to be able to be productive and independent.

Although what that means in practice depends form country to country. Some teach kids 3-4 languages to be able to be successful in an international capacity. Some give everyone a period of military service where they learn other skills. Some have classes aimed at better communication between people to avoid mistakes before they happen. At least one country has “Problem-Based Learning” where they integrate skills learned in all sorts of classes, removing the divide between economics, physics and other classes. First aid class is also a thing in some countries as it’s critical at least 2 people in every household know first aid. Media literacy or programming are also a thing in some countries.

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u/minor_correction 1d ago

It changed from a 40 hours a week job to working two 29.5 hours / week jobs because that's the limit to avoid providing health insurance.

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u/caylem00 1d ago

Uh, that's what the modern school system developed in the industrial revolution was explicitly for? 

To create factory workers with a baseline of knowledge, not well-rounded individuals (and to shut up all the people 'whining' about kiddies dying in mines and factory floors or getting hung for stealing bread cuz their family was starving).

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u/Busterlimes 1d ago

This is exactly why Republicans have been dismantling education since Nixon.

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u/Magicthundercat 1d ago edited 1d ago

Or if you tie health care to employment, it is easier to keep serfs quiet and working. It is a feature, not a bug.

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u/Popular-Turnip3031 1d ago

Employer-paid healthcare started off as a good idea, but unfortunately got locked in, cuz Americans fear change. And yeah, some rich folks found out they can make money on it.

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u/Magicthundercat 1d ago

When US can offer healthcare to military and veterans and elected members of Congress, why not to all Americans?

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u/takabrash 1d ago

"That's different"

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u/CamGoldenGun 1d ago

they're not even all that good with veterans. Look at the mess the VA is in or the large amount of homeless that are veterans.

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u/manleybones 1d ago

That's because of GOP knee capping every government attempt to do anything, so that they can later say see it doesn't work. The reality is the GOP doesn't work, but is really good at brainwashing.

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u/Magicthundercat 1d ago

I am not arguing that veterans aren't getting the short end of the stick and that VA needs better funding and improve healthcare access, but that all Americans should be able to access health care without insurance companies in the middle.

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u/CamGoldenGun 1d ago

indeed. Single-payer insurance seems like the way to go for the US.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/OrbeaSeven Minnesota 1d ago

Just a VA story. V acquaintance has multiple problems, including a leg amputation. No family. No nursing home can accommodate his internal needs so he is forever in a VA home. Don't even consider that he can see a doctor ASAP unless an emergency. Wait times are often weeks, although the VA Hospital is nearly next door. There is much paper work with changes and flips to other doctors and VA facilities. Fortunately, he has an unrelated advocate, but how many veterans do not have such help?

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u/PathOfTheAncients 1d ago

Of the couple of older, retired veterans in my family that use the VA they all really like it.

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u/CamGoldenGun 1d ago

once you're receiving the benefits, yea absolutely. I'm talking about the millions who aren't. Or for those that need to keep telling them that yes, their leg is still gone, it didn't grow back, every year.

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u/Schuben 1d ago

The best health insurance prices and coverage I've ever seen was from people emoyed by the state I live in. Who knew collective bargaining by the largest employer would yield such great results?!

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u/kazzanova 1d ago

Lol, the military and veterans don't get shit compared to congress... Hell, these days I think that my employer health plan is better than theirs...

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u/Magicthundercat 1d ago

I agree that Congress gets a Cadillac plan, but at least military gets a Ford pinto plan.

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u/Happler 1d ago

What, one small accident and it blows up and is worthless?

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u/confused_ape 1d ago

It's seen as a reward for service to the country.

Everyone else is just a cash cow.

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u/VanceKelley Washington 1d ago

So socialized medicine (the VA health care facilities are owned by the government and the doctors/nurses/staff that work there are paid salaries by the government) is a reward that some Americans get.

But the rest of Americans don't deserve socialized medicine and are left to struggle with the private for-profit system. This reverses the traditional American belief that socialism is bad.

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u/pablonieve Minnesota 1d ago

Part of the reason is because unions wanted benefits to remain tied to specific employers. If everyone could get the same level of health coverage, then that would remove a key benefit that unions could negotiate.

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u/Magicthundercat 1d ago

So, I got mine...

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u/AdUpstairs7106 1d ago

So fun fact. Initially, Tricare, the health insurance plan the military has for service members and their dependents was only for active duty.

The federal government created what is called TriCare Select for members of the NG and Reserves because it was determined spending tens of thousands of dollars and in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars to train a reservist or NG service member to have only have to medically discharge them because their civilian employer did not provide medical insurance was a bad investment.

So, thus, Tricare Select was created. It is a really competitive health plan as well and I know several guys who stayed in the military either in the Reserves or NG just because Tricare Select is far better than anything they could ever hope to find in the civilian world.

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u/Captain-Hornblower Florida 1d ago

Not all veterans receive health care. It depends on what the Dept. of VA rates the veteran. I am not saying I disagree with you because I don't. I think everyone should have access to healthcare here in the US.

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u/Competitive_Touch_86 1d ago

Employer-paid healthcare was simply a dodge around wages being frozen in WWII. It then got codified into what it is more or less on accident and simple inertia since then - there was no real forethought put into how it would work on a system level.

That single small thing had such insane multi-ordered effects throughout the economy and society it's kind of insane to think about. Probably was thought up in some board meeting as an offhand comment back in the 1940's and just sort of accidentally snowballed from there.

It was never a good idea. It caused a massive principle agent problem in the market, and was the seed that grew into the insane affordability crises we have today.

Insurance is just a drop in the bucket compared to the problems we have in the system as a whole.

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u/TheDakestTimeline 18h ago

Got any good resources to read more about this?

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u/Competitive_Touch_86 17h ago

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2017/02/24/employer-based-health-care-was-a-wartime-accident/

Not the greatest article, but should be a good starting point on basic facts if you want to delve any deeper!

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u/DillBagner 1d ago

It happened the other way around. Rich folks found a way to make money, so they lied to the people to make them afraid to change it.

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u/silverwoodchuck47 Maryland 1d ago

Employer-paid health care started after WW2 as way around wage controls. It didn't cost much because virtually nothing could be cured, so you died pretty quickly or recovered quickly enough.

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u/Gumbi_Digital 1d ago

We’re the ONLY country in the world that does it…

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u/ScannerBrightly California 1d ago

It was never a good idea. It was a hack to attract talent when we were fighting a global war.

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u/Chief_Chill Illinois 1d ago

The poor, tired, and sick are easier to control/manipulate. It helps even more, when those same people are also ignorant or uneducated.

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u/CamGoldenGun 1d ago

That sounds fine until that health insurance provider denies everything or the plan your employer signed up for sucks.

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u/Rfunkpocket 1d ago

a nations health is essential for its national defense

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u/sparkax 1d ago

Yea, but how can the wealthy profit off of keeping us poors healthy? That requires an investment on their part might not pay off as quickly as investing in our deaths!!

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u/HGpennypacker 1d ago

An educated and healthy population can be more productive.

Which is exactly why Republicans want to dismantle healthcare and the Department of Education. Keep 'em dumb and stupid and most importantly keep 'em voting Republican.

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u/happyfundtimes 1d ago

It's called "starve the beast", interestingly enough.

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u/hbools 1d ago

This is what gets me. A healthy consumer is a productive consumer, incentives align but still we have this mess.

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u/Beneficial-Dot-- 1d ago

Power is more important than wealth.

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u/Verumsemper 1d ago

When you realize the issue is that this alignment only exist with the educated elites because they need consumers to grow their wealth, the aristocratic elites ( those born to wealth) just need a submissive population. To them, a healthy educated population is a threat to their power.

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u/PathOfTheAncients 1d ago

That's long term thinking, that's not allowed anymore.

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u/BootScootBoogy85 1d ago

But it means then that BigPharma can’t line the pockets of members of the GOP and the GOP can’t allow that too happen

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u/Sourpieborp 1d ago

I hate to break it to you but big pharma lines bipartisan pockets.

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u/Zexapher America 1d ago

It's mostly a gop issue, let's be honest with ourselves now of all times. The gop are looking to strip healthcare protections away from us: Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, Veteran's healthcare, 9/11 Responders Healthcare etc., all on their list to get rid of.

While Dems are putting caps on the price of prescription drugs and descheduling marijuana so it can be used for medicinal purposes on the cheap.

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u/RoboTronPrime 1d ago

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/unitedhealth-group/summary?id=D000000348

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u/Zexapher America 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's a good point for UnitedHealth Group generally favoring republicans over the years, even stll outpacing Dems in the House, thanks for the link. It's a bit tough navigating that website on my mobile, I will say.

And dang, that Senate spike when Dems were trying to push a public option in 2008 and needing Covid to get Dems competitive with pharma is telling.

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u/tacoheadbob 1d ago

So? Is this your justification to not do anything about it? Every time I hear a ‘both sides’ comment, it’s usually posed as an either an attempt to defuse a topic or announcing how contrarian people can be.

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u/QTsexkitten 1d ago

This isn't a gop specific issue. Big pharma is in the pockets of the Dems too in a big way.

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u/Steinrikur 1d ago

I broke some hardcore libertarians using this argument: "A healthy government will pay it forward, educated and healthy citizens will pay higher taxes resulting in a net gain for that government"

The rebuttals were hilariously bad.

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u/BNsucks America 1d ago edited 1d ago

Who in America GAF about having a healthy population? The health care system can't make record profits off of healthy people.

We're a capitalistic society where money rules. It's all about Us versus Them; rich vs poor; Dems vs GQP; the haves & have nots, etc.

People who earn a living representing some of our most basic needs & rights are highly compensated for their services.

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u/KokrSoundMed 1d ago

The workers in the system generally care. We don't get paid better for taking care of sicker, more complicated patients, its just a hell of a lot more complicated work. We are also all overbooked, understaffed, and don't have enough time to get to everyone.

The insurance system likes things how it is, the C-suite (non medical MBAs) love it, but everyone else in the system hates it.

Physicians and nurse compensation also isn't the problem, physician pay is 6-8% of the system. Remember, 50%+ of physicians are primary care, which is peds, Family medicine, internal medicine, the extremely high salaries most people hear about are doctors in much smaller specialties like radiology, anesthesia, surgical specializations like neurosurgery.

While I think we could rein in some salaries, Orthopedics for instance is fairly overpaid, mostly because an orthopedic surgeon was hired by the feds to come up with the rate schedule back in the day, others are fine, or even underpaid considering the debt required to become a physician, and the massive necessary time investment to become a physician.

The "labor is the problem argument" is directly from the insurance companies, it is propaganda designed to focus the anger on the wrong part of the system so they can keep their golden goose.

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u/BNsucks America 1d ago

Thanks for taking the time to explain and give us a better understanding.

Why are med schools so expensive, especially if the return on your investment (income/salary) is allegedly so low?

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u/neilthedude 1d ago

Let's be clear: the ROI is not low. Doctors make good money and live good lives. It's hard work and they do have to make a substantial upfront investment in their time and money, but it usually pays off handsomely.

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u/BNsucks America 1d ago

Kokr appears to be very knowledgeable on this topic, which is why I asked him why med schools are so extremely expensive. If you know, maybe you can provide the answer.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/BNsucks America 22h ago

Sorry for your loss.

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u/roastbeeftacohat 1d ago

As long as the slice of pie the0.1% gets grows, they don't care if the whole pie shrinks. It's obviously unsustainable, but that's not there problem. In Russia the rich extracted what they could and left. They are doing the same now without thinking where they will leave to.

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u/fgreen68 1d ago

An educated and healthy population is a matter of national security.

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u/rotsono 1d ago

But you cant blackmail healthy people and you also cant control educated people with propaganda and disinformation.

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u/jrsinhbca 1d ago

Amen, and happy cake day.

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u/ModelY-Mods-suckdick 1d ago

An educated population doesn’t vote republican

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u/UrbanGimli 1d ago

yeah but will the browns and gays get education and be healthy too? because that's a bridge too far, apparently.

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u/Cilad 1d ago

Which is why the GOP hates education. Keep the masses dumb. Looks like it worked too.

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u/TheIllestDM 1d ago

That is exactly what our owners do not want.

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u/idk_lets_try_this 1d ago

For sure more productive on a national scale tbh. That’s well established.

Unhealthy and uneducated people however easier to exploit by individual corporations, “do what I say or we fire you and take your health insurance” is a serious threat.

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u/The_Doct0r_ 1d ago

An uneducated and sick population can be easily manipulated and controlled cattle.

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u/monty624 Arizona 1d ago

I'd go so far and say it's a matter of national security. Have a healthy population, be ready for the worst. Have people loyal to their country and government for providing them necessary care to remain a productive member of society. People leaving the country and spending money on foreign services to save money is just dumb.

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u/jimmybwana 1d ago

When will you lot wake up and realise it’s NOT ALL about the dollar. Quality of life for all, THEN go chasing money.

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u/hukkit 1d ago

Harder to steal from though

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u/Successful-Scheme608 1d ago

it’s always generally been the right wing elements that have been against funding public schools and funding universal health care.

Don’t hear what they say, watch what they do.

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u/inbrewer 1d ago

I make this point continuously thinking it will resonate with conservatives. Nope.

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u/jrsinhbca 1d ago

"Conservatives" will always have a tizzy fit when they're asked to help cover educational or healthcare costs for other people's kids. It's a disturbingly ironic response.

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u/AdUpstairs7106 1d ago

So, one of the big reasons the federal government came up with the NSLP (National School Lunch Program) in 1946 is that in WW2, many men were rejected from military service due to malnutrition.

Today, a lot of young adults are not able to join the military because they can't pass the ASVAB. Eventually, if for no other reason than the MIC needs it, the federal government will help the states with education just enough to make sure the various K-12 systems are turning out people smart enough to enlist.

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u/SecularMisanthropy 1d ago

"We are in danger of creating an educated proletariat." -literally Reagan's far-right Austrian economic advisor.

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u/Huckleberry-V America 1d ago

Yes, but elements of a population can be educated and healthy without all of it being so. That's the most efficient model and so it's the status quo we must constantly fight.

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u/specqq 1d ago

Right, but they're also less likely to do what they're told.

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u/DildoBanginz 1d ago

Any surprise that republican states tend to be dumb and unhealthy?

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u/Metal-Alligator 1d ago

“I love the poorly educated”

-Trump

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u/Knee_Jerk_Sydney 1d ago

Elon will just import the geniuses he needs.

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u/42Pockets America 1d ago

Absolutely!

For me Education is the backbone of the First Amendment.

Forgiving Student Loan Debt and Affordable Education across the spectrum (PreK-PostSeconday) is extremely important to maintaining Democracy.

The purposes of Government set forth in The U.S. Constitution: Preamble

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

These are the guidelines to decide should "We the People" do this?

Alexander Hamilton even wrote in Federalist Papers: 84 about the importance of the Preamble.

Here is a better recognition of popular rights, than volumes of those aphorisms which make the principal figure in several of our State bills of rights

Out of these purposes of government, Promote the General Welfare, Education for All is square in the sights of this idea.

John Adams wrote a bit about the importance of education in a democracy.

the social science will never be much improved untill the People unanimously know and Consider themselvs as the fountain of Power and untill they Shall know how to manage it Wisely and honestly. reformation must begin with the Body of the People which can be done only, to affect, in their Educations. the Whole People must take upon themselvs the Education of the Whole People and must be willing to bear the expences of it. there should not be a district of one Mile Square without a school in it, not founded by a Charitable individual but maintained at the expence of the People themselvs they must be taught to reverence themselvs instead of adoreing their servants their Generals Admirals Bishops and Statesmen*

Here he makes clear the importance of the People being an integral part of the system. It gives us ownership of our own destiny together. He emphasizes the idea of the Whole People and Whole Education. This would include preschool and anything after high school, not necessarily just college, but also trade schools, etc.

The rest of the letter John Adams wrote to John Jeb is absolutely fantastic. He goes on to discuss why it's important to create a system that makes people like Martin Luther King jr, Susan B Anthony, Carl Sagan, and Mr Rogers, and Washington. Good leaders should not be a product of the time, but of the educational system and culture of the people. If a country doesn't make good leaders then when that leader is gone there's no one to replace them and that culture and movement dies with them.

Instead of Adoring a Washington, Mankind Should applaud the Nation which Educated him. If Thebes owes its Liberty and Glory to Epaminondas, She will loose both when he dies, and it would have been as well if She had never enjoyed a taste of either: but if the Knowledge the Principles the Virtues and Capacities of the Theban Nation produced an Epaminondas, her Liberties and Glory will remain when he is no more: and if an analogous system of Education is Established and Enjoyed by the Whole Nation, it will produce a succession of Epaminandas’s.

In another short work by John Adams, Thoughts on Government, YouTube Reading, he wrote about the importance of a liberal education for everyone, spared no expense.

Laws for the liberal education of youth, especially of the lower class of people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant.

One hundred years ago we built in mass the first major wave of highschools in the United States.

In 1910 18% of 15- to 18-year-olds were enrolled in a high school; barely 9% of all American 18-year-olds graduated. By 1940, 73% of American youths were enrolled in high school and the median American youth had a high school diploma.

This was a dramatic shift in education and economic gain for the United States. Not all of our grandparents went to highschool until the public saw it necessary to build them.

The future is going to need more local experts than ever and an education that was good 100 years ago just isn't going to cut it on a global scale. People will need to change careers in the future and probably more than once. We will need continuing education as a society so that people can adapt and change with the coming times. This includes ensuring that after graduating high school people are able to attend and easily afford the education they need to participate in their community.

As long as a person puts in their work to learn and change themselves, our citizens shouldn't be overly burdened with expenses for attending a public education program.

It's not that citizens shouldn't pay anything, but it shouldn't be so much as to keep them from working and meaningfully participating in the economy. Not as indentured servants, but free citizens.

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u/trevdak2 Massachusetts 1d ago

Yeah but a really really dumb one doesn't know it's sick or oppressed

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u/Astyanax1 1d ago

That goes against the end game of needing to force people to work toxic crappy jobs

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u/GuavaShaper 1d ago

And historically less likely to engage in mass revolt.

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u/IT_Chef Virginia 23h ago

Plus they pay more taxes!

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u/ButtEatingContest 20h ago

It's essential for national security.

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u/_Mephistocrates_ 13h ago

When the Spanish invaded and conquered South America, they enslaved the natives and had them working in mines. Eventually they figured out it was more profitable to just work their slaves until they died, rather than take care of them, and try to keep them alive. With a constant supply of cheap labor, they were able to rake in tons of profits. What you say used to be true, but the system being set up currently is much closer to that model.

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u/Grenflik 1d ago

I’m trying to imagine “wholesome” with the GOP/Conservatives, it just doesn’t work.

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u/bnh1978 1d ago

US Constitution

Aricle I: Legislative Branch.

Section 8.

Clause I.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States;

General Welfare has always been hotly debated. What does that mean?

Does our legislative branch meet those expectations?

Should the People bring suit against the US that they are not meeting the standard for general Welfare? How would we test that? Is that even possible? I know this SCOTUS would likely not hear it or would rule that welfare only referred to goats or something.

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u/confused_ape 1d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_for_the_relief_of_sick_and_disabled_seamen

Obviously the founding fathers didn't have a problem with legislating healthcare for groups of people deemed "essential" to the national interest.

Covid might suggest that "essential" has since expanded to include much more than Billy Bones.

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u/OnceMoreAndAgain 1d ago edited 1d ago

I take it to mean a catchall. Providing for the general welfare of the USA is saying correcting market failures and stopping bad actors. Healthcare has natural market failures that only the government can correct.

For a specific example of what I mean by "healthcare has natural market failures", consider that if you were to have a heart attack right this moment. Someone would call an ambulance and it'd have to take you to the closest hospital. Most people live in a place where one hospital is closer than any other hospitals, so that hospital essentially has a monopoly over the emergency medical treatment of people nearby. This is a market failure, because the hospital can charge whatever they want to treat your heart attack episode and you have no choice but to get the treatment. The way the government can correct this market failure is by dictating the maximum amount a hospital can charge on that treatment.

There are plenty more market failures in healthcare as well. The market failures have nothing to do with anything specific to the USA. They are inherent failures that would exist anywhere unless the government intervened.

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u/GuyInTenn 22h ago

The Interstate Commererce Clause and the 10th Amendment come into play in that particular debate as well.

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u/OutsideOwl5892 1d ago

If you believe this you should vote and organize the vote more

This country has around 18-28% voter turnout for primary elections, depending on the year.

40% turnout for midterms and 50-60% for presidential elections. Think of that - not even half the voting population shows up some presidential elections, let alone everything down stream which is just as important.

Young people are the least likely to vote btw.

If you’re not even participating or trying to organize to get the shit you claim to so desperately want then you can’t really complain when you don’t get it

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u/Daveinatx 1d ago

Voting affects the youngest the longest, however they're the easiest to manipulate. "All sides the same, my vote doesn't matter..." The GOP knows this and floods the messages.

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u/happyfundtimes 1d ago

Literally! Nobody votes or gets involved. They think its too complex and then just do something easier. It's designed to be that way.

Literally being involved in politics is as simple as working (you're paying taxes), buying (sales tax, product regulation from federal and state departments), using public services (run by taxes), working (you're paying taxes).

TAXES aren't the issue. TAX ALLOCATION is the issue. You can literally keep the same taxes, remove the waste through laundering, nepotism, private partnerships, and fiscal greed, and you will have a much better quality of life with tax cuts to spare. You're complaining about quality of services? That's an issue with tax allocation. As someone who's worked in government for years, I can PROMISE YOU your taxes are going towards doing the BARE MINIMUM of services while the rest is laundered.

And yes, these have all been by conservatives. This method is called "starve the beast", where they literally do the absolute effective minimum by federal grants, not even, and then pocket the rest. Nobody stops them because its corrupt from the top down. Especially in the South.

I'm not saying vote democrat because people in New York and Chicago have been laundering as well with organized crime ties, but I'm URGING people to do some bare bones research on your candidate for at least ONE HOUR before you vote. Vote in your local, state, and federal elections. YES!! EVEN THE 2026 CONGRESS ELECTION!

Look into who funds them, who they support, etc. Much of what is done behind closed doors runs everything.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 1d ago

You want people to focus for an hour per potential candidate when the world is focused on 10-30 second clips with a frame switch every 3-4 seconds? I agree with you, I just don't see this ever being a possibility.

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u/happyfundtimes 1d ago

It's essentially 1 hour a year, really. I genuinely believe that tiktok is a chinese/russian ploy to reduce the cognitive load of our brains and make us dependent on short bursts of dopamine. Not to mention ChatGPT. Some people have even reported "not being able to think anymore". Look into the cognitive warfare of China and Russia and you'd be surprised. Pretty similar concerns.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 1d ago

It didn't even need to be a psyop. Advertisers and television producers have been warping our attention spans for decades, slowly adapting towards sound bites and clips as the norm. Tiktok is just another thing in a set of things that puts the production in everyone's hands and the creators speedrun the ways to further dillute the way content is presented. Now we have whole generations of children exposed to this minimized version of production as their first and majority experiences.

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u/PsychicFoxWithSpoons 1d ago

This is arguably true but unfortunately we currently do not have the money for single-payer. You'd need to levy a new tax of some kind. And then on top of that, you're killing income for a very large number of incredibly wealthy people, so you're going to have to compensate for the reduced tax revenue.

Even if you ended the contracting systems that suck trillions from the government each year, you wouldn't be able to pay for single-payer unless you increased taxes somewhere on someone.

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u/misterrandom1 Washington 1d ago

I don't even understand why young people don't vote. I have 3 adult kids (18-24) and I nag them all about voting and make sure that they confirm that every one of their friends are registered and actually vote each election. Apparently, I'm in the minority on this? Teaching kids to vote is so fucking easy as a parent.

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u/gophergun Colorado 1d ago

Think of that - not even half the voting population shows up some presidential elections, let alone everything down stream which is just as important.

Those downstream elections are more important for the vast majority of people. Consider that only about 10% of House races are competitive - that means that whoever wins the primary wins the general election 90% of the time.

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u/HAL_9OOO_ 1d ago edited 1d ago

America's voters have consistently voted against improving our health care system for 50 years. Stop blaming The Government.

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u/EvilStevilTheKenevil 1d ago

Yeah, there is no polite or kind way to say it but the US is a nation of bigots, morons, and lunatics.

Things will only get worse until this changes.

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u/TheCaptainDamnIt 1d ago

Reddit healthcare warriors fundamentally do not understand conservatives, even poor ones do not think everybody deserves healthcare (especially if that person isn't white). So while they say they want government subsidized healthcare they only want it for people 'just like them' and will oppose any programs that helps those they think don't deserve it.

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u/Liizam America 1d ago

We get conservatives. They are stupid, mean and vote against their interests to spite the pins or whatever.

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u/v4riati0ns 1d ago

Yeah, if the government is so bad then we need to show up to vote them out. If we keep electing a bad government then it’s the populace that’s “unqualified and negligent” in this respect.

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u/Howdoyouusecommas 1d ago

Unfortunately most Americans have no idea even how the broad strokes of our government works. Most people simply are not qualified to judge who's policies are generally in line with what they want or what would benefit them the most long term.

Unfortunately democracy is the best system we have so far for the general population to participate in their governance. To function at out best we would need a robust education system to ensure most of the population has a working knowledge of how things work.

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u/pablonieve Minnesota 1d ago

This is unironically why the Founders didn't include universal suffrage in the Constitution. They believed that democracy should be reserved for those with the education, standing, and means to understand the ramifications of governing actions. It was very anti-populist and very elitist.

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u/gophergun Colorado 1d ago

Right, if we wanted single payer, a majority of Democratic primary voters would have voted for one of the candidates who explicitly supported it rather than the candidate who explicitly opposed it. We're a government of the people, and the people are dumber than rocks.

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u/SuperTopGun666 1d ago

The way I had it explained to me. 

If there was national health care then those people who are fat and smoke will be using my tax dollars on their health care. 

So what about private insurance??

Well people who have to pay insurance are more likely to Keep themselves healthy and are not a burden on the system.  

Okay what if those people paying for insurance are fat and smoke.  Well at Least they paid into it…..

What???? How is this better??? It’s the same but with profit people getting rich on you.  

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u/Hothera 1d ago edited 1d ago

The Democrats lost 70 seats in Congress for passing the ACA and merely suggesting a public option that people interpreted as "government death panels." That was one of the largest Congressional shifts in history. Remember that next time you see someone claiming bOtH sIDeS ArE tEh SaME.

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u/RedditIsDeadMoveOn 1d ago

Blame First Past The Post voting

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u/OrbeaSeven Minnesota 1d ago

They voted against a health care system because it's called socialism. And, of course, these same voters accept Social Security, SNAP, interstate highways, public schools, dams, libraries, public transportation, and redistribution of taxes to poorer states.

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u/Choice-Highway5344 1d ago

It’s what people voted for though. Give them what they want

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u/ballskindrapes 1d ago

It is an illegitimate government, as well as unqualified and negligent.

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u/Decloudo 1d ago

There are no "basic rights", there are only the rights we actually give people.

Them being basic would imply that they somehow are universally true, which no rights are.

Else people wouldnt be in this situation.

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u/PageVanDamme 1d ago

It’s interesting because State-Run health insurance in South Korea was started by a right-wing dictator in the 60s.

He did it to gain popularity and cement his position. Maybe we can convince Trump to do the same? Someone tell him it’s gonna make him popular.

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u/cinepro 1d ago

He did it to gain popularity and cement his position. Maybe we can convince Trump to do the same? Someone tell him it’s gonna make him popular.

You're forgetting about Congress. Remember, the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress under Obama and he still barely got watered-down Obamacare through.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/podcast/2020/mar/monumental-effort

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u/Present_Chocolate218 1d ago

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE is literally written in the preamble. Like, what's so hard to understand that health care as a right is "promoting the general welfare" of all Americans.

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u/Chief_Chill Illinois 1d ago

"Promote the general welfare" should mean ensuring our tax dollars are aimed at that which benefits the People - such as access to social programs, protection of environment, healthcare accessibility, etc.

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u/cocktail_wiitch 1d ago

It's just more violence coming from an already insanely violent empire...

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u/Hippo_Alert 1d ago

He has the concept of a big beautiful health plan better than Obama!!!  All he has to do is fill in the hundreds of blank pages of the copy they were waving around last time.

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u/Empty_Cattle_6910 1d ago

 unqualified and negligent

40+ years of the GOP dictating the course of the US government.

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u/cinepro 1d ago

Except for the times it didn't?

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u/Empty_Cattle_6910 1d ago

Since Carter it has been 2 years under Clinton and 2 years under Obama. That’s it. The rest of the time the GOP was either in control or taking advantage of a split legislature to block nominations and bills.

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u/cinepro 1d ago

The rest of the time the GOP was either in control or taking advantage of a split legislature to block nominations and bills.

You have a very selective memory. It's also hilarious that you still think the GOP "dictates the course of the US government" even when there is a Democrat President and the Democrats control of one or both houses of congress, but you don't seem to think that Democrats "dictate the course of the US government" when the situation is reversed.

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u/Empty_Cattle_6910 1d ago

 You have a very selective memory.

Says the guy who apparently can’t remember the likes of Newt Gingrich or Mitch McConnell.

You’re just a sucker for the same party line they’ve been feeding the US for four decades.

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u/berylskies 1d ago

Opposing universal healthcare is morally equivalent to murder.

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u/gqtrees 1d ago

Im just coming at this from neutral perspective because i don’t fully understand the deep rooted issues in the states…yet. But how would we change the system perhaps to ensure it doesn’t go right back into the capitalism meat grinder. But ensures its funded correctly and all Americans receive the basics rights?

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u/AngryTomJoad 1d ago

quasi-related. i watched a documentary: Sour Grapes, about counterfeit wine. i couldnt stay interested as i was getting angry watching all these rich assholes spend 10k, 100k, million for this collection, etc while thinking of all the people who dont have insurance, food, heat, etc etc. Really drove it home how there are the rich and the rest of us. Something has to change, we need fair taxes and they have to pay it, no more loopholes for yachts and jets.

really just needed to vent but i dont see how we get out of this hole without learning from some historical labor moments

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u/dcoolidge 1d ago

When you can buy health insurance for pets, yet humans get no health care, something is wrong.

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u/dahabit 1d ago

Bro it's not even that. If you have health insurance, and if you are paying into one, you should not be denied when it actually matters.

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u/SomeoneOne0 1d ago

In my opinion, it isn't a right. Everyone has to work for it. But it's the government's JOB to tend to this, because we pay taxes.

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u/wirefox1 1d ago

It's actually second or third world country-ish too. If he does away with federal institutions we can kiss our 1st world country status goodbye because we will be headed right towards two classes. People are struggling to stay in the middle class now, and with the inevitable price gouging, already rampant, with everything becoming privatized, families will lose disposable income.

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u/porcelaincatstatue 1d ago

On the next episode of "I never thought the leopards would eat my face"– finding out treatment for said missing face is deemed unnecessary and getting stuck with a bankruptcy inducing medical bill.

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u/StrobeLightRomance 1d ago

Sincerely, what are we being taxed for it's not improving our shared society? Why are the wealthy able to evade taxes, but also afford private health insurance that nobody else can afford.

This country isn't supposed to run like a country club where arbitrary birth rights based on socioeconomic classes decide what your mortality rate will before you're even born. Exclusivity and fake scarcity of resources are vague concepts that have become our undoing.

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u/Inevitable_Heron_599 1d ago

America voted for an unqualified and negligent president, so this all fits just fine.

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u/Demonweed 1d ago

I do not deny the human rights argument. Yet the economic efficiency argument also condemns for-profit employment-based insurance. Wall Street loves it because it radically turbocharges the power imbalance between employer and employee in negotiating compensation or labor. Yet as a society, the mayhem of all that avoidable suffering compounds with the inefficiency of hiring arbitrary corporate gatekeepers to hobble our nation for no better reason than plunging into an even more extreme Gilded Age.

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u/danny0boii 1d ago

I’m from Canada. All we do is complain about our taxes and healthcare is a big reason we pay so much in taxes. Our public healthcare system is great. Wait times on average are 10+ hours at hospitals which is brutal. Care is mediocre due to how busy free healthcare gets. In all honestly I wouldn’t mind paying out the ass to a private hospital because I know I’m going to get the care I need right away and I won’t be behind 100 other people. Privatized healthcare has perks Americans probably take for granted…

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u/tigertiger180 1d ago

I agree, but a maga voter would not. They look at this as paying for people that don't deserve it because they're lazy. It's so frustrating

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u/FalonCorner 1d ago

The labor of someone else is never someone’s human right

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u/chenzoid 1d ago

If you have a basic right to say what you want and a basic right to have a gun to defend yourself from tyranny, why can't you all protest for the right to healthcare free from the influence of profiteering grubs?

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u/Knee_Jerk_Sydney 1d ago

Less than half of the voters who vote don't think so.

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u/DistinctWindow1586 1d ago

As a Canadian I could never imagine having to use insurance for healthcare, that just baffles my mind.

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u/Ok_Development8895 1d ago

Bernie should have been president in 2016. Democrats screwed over the country for good :(

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u/im-at-work-duh 1d ago

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

It's right fucking there in the preamble to the constitution!

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u/Azair_Blaidd America 1d ago

is an unqualified and negligent government

This is, of course, by design.

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u/Johnnyappleseedssss 1d ago

We can afford it, but Republicans are getting paid too much by big pharma, big insurance, biggest bidder to let us live more affordable lives.

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u/Reasonable-Fan5265 1d ago

Then how about you vote for that.

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u/Inferiex 1d ago

MAGA doesn't care about healthcare until it affects them.

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u/funshinecd 1d ago

I have read something to the effect of "a basic human right that requires another human to provide it, is not a basic human right" Our health care system is fucked i agree...

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u/simpleidiot567 23h ago

As a Canadian, Americans dont have the first clue how to get this ball rolling... Canada we have a single payer system but its paid for and managed at the province (state) level. It evolved in Canada over 40+ years. First a couple provinces experimented with it over 20 years...others slowly adopted it, after another 25 years or so most of the rich provinces did it, the federal government only made it law after all the rich provinces were doing it, and started to transfer money to the poor east coast provinces so they could do it. This transfer of money between provinces is still the most devisive long lasting concept in our politics.

US has a huge uphill battle with 50 states, most of them poor. First a few states need to test the waters, show how it works. You guys want to try to somehow skip 40 years of natural evolution and get to the finish line over night... i dont think so. Start at the state level, work your way out. Remeber to thank California, Texas, Florida, illinois and New York for footing the bill when it finally happens.

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u/w1nn1ng1 23h ago

I work for a company that literally exists to navigate health insurance and bring care to those who can’t access it…it’s insane.

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u/Otterwarrior26 23h ago

No.

There is no such thing as "human rights"

The only thing you are entitled to is death. Everything else is a social contract.

However, our current system is not beneficial to society. We don't need the government to provide us with anything, and it looks like they are not going to, so we need to work together and figure out a better system.

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u/RedK_33 22h ago

The want us to be in debt because it forced us to work more.

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u/nightimestars California 19h ago

Seriously, our government seems to care more only cares about being paid off by billionaires and corporations. Meanwhile the people of the U.S. get fuck all when it comes to quality of life compared to our peers.

Then there is the useful idiots of MAGA who care more about causing suffering and drinking the tears of their fellow average not-rich Americans, even though it also goes against their own interests, which keeps us stuck in this shitty situation. They really convinced MAGAts that being awake and aware (gasp woke!!) about the class divide is a bad thing and that staying asleep and unaware is… uh… based…?

It’s fucking tragic.

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u/New-Attempt362 19h ago

"Health" - The First Wealth of Nations. [Emerson]

"Health: - A Nation's Only True Prosperity. [Emerson]

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u/Ignatiussancho1729 16h ago

It would be significantly better if America adopted capitalism when it comes to healthcare. Example - I think people should be able to buy drugs from overseas without big pharma blocking it with the FDA. The current system is corrupt and the people suffer/pay arbitrarily inflated prices. A good example is insulin - why aren't Americans permitted by the government to buy it from Canada? (it was after all discovered/invented by Canada/UK)

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u/Happydenial 16h ago

Also in a capitalist society you pay taxes.. that's an investment and they are convincing you to give you less for your investment.. it just doesn't make sense..

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u/WaywardTraveleur53 10h ago

Nothing that another person must provide is anyone's right.

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u/TheQuidditchHaderach 9h ago

Yet, they continually vote republican. 😆

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