r/neoliberal • u/Currymvp2 unflaired • Apr 13 '24

Iran begins attack, launching dozens of drones that'll take hours to arrive News (Middle East)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-iran-begins-attack-on-israel-launching-dozens-of-drones-thatll-take-hours-to-arrive/
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u/MBA1988123 Apr 13 '24

Creating consequences for Iran funding Hamas is a better option than creating another CF in Gaza imo. At least they’re going after the source. 

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u/UnskilledScout Cancel All Monopolies Apr 13 '24

Do you think that if this situation blows out into a whole war, that it will be beneficial for anyone? It isn't like you bomb Iran and mission accomplished. Have we learned nothing from Iraq?

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '24

Do you think that if this situation blows out into a whole war, that it will be beneficial for anyone?

The Saudis, and Jordanians will probably think it's a nice development actually.

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u/barktreep Immanuel Kant Apr 13 '24

Jordan does not want another war. They had to take in millions of Iraqi refugees already. 

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '24

A war between Iran and Israel is likely to be limited to an air campaign. Israelis aren't fleeing to Jordan as refugees and Iranians wouldn't cross Iraq just to stop in Jordan.

That is not a major concern.

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u/barktreep Immanuel Kant Apr 13 '24

Jordan is trying to shoot down the drones so they’re clearly not too happy about it. 

Long term, if this destabilizes Iraq, there could absolutely be refugees in Jordan, Iraqi or Iranian. 

I hope you’re right of course and it’s just some fireworks. 

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '24

I didn't say they were happy the war was happening. I said Jordan wouldn't mind watching Iran get taken down a peg.

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u/barktreep Immanuel Kant Apr 13 '24

Sure, but nothing is ever that clean. I dont think anyone should want more instability in the Middle East. 

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '24

The middle east is already unstable and Iran is the largest driver of that currently. Letting them freely sponsor instability in the region has been a failure.

Iran is the one who pushed the Levant to it's current state. Letting them suffer the backlash of those actions in the hope they change course is hardly some fringe suggestion.

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u/barktreep Immanuel Kant Apr 13 '24

Iran is just filling the power vacuum left by Israeli aggression and American incompetence. Iran did not invent Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon.  They also didn’t invade Iraq. But they definitely benefited from all this. 

Point is, attacking Iran would not address any of these other issues that they are leveraging to expand their influence. If Iran isn’t doing it, someone else will, until we address the underlying issues. 

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '24

Iran has been a destabilizing presence in the middle east since the Iran-Iraq war ended. They were working to destabilize the Levant when Israel was ruled by a left-leaning coalition that was generally seeking peace.

You can't blame their behavior on the US and the Jews.

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u/barktreep Immanuel Kant Apr 13 '24

The further back you go in history the more it becomes America’s fault. I’m just talking about the last 25 years. 

Starting your analysis after the Iran Iraq war is a tad convenient given the whole thing about the US arming Iraq and enabling a war that killed over a million people.

We could of course go further back and talk about how US involvement led to the Ayatollah in the first place. 

Not sure how instructive all this is beyond further illustrating the point that war is almost always the worst possible way to resolve conflicts and foreign intervention almost always has unintended negative consequences. 

Which is why I, and likely the King of Jordan, don’t want to see yet another war in the Middle East, even if we don’t particularly like one of, or all, the parties involved.  

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '24

Actually the further back in history the more it becomes the fault of the British and the French. Before that it is the fault of the Ottomans. Prior to them it's the fault of the Mongols and before them it's the fault of the Abbasids. The fact that you think the US is the primary driver of modern middle east instability shows your recency bias and how shallow your understanding of the situation is.

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