Iran begins attack, launching dozens of drones that'll take hours to arrive

[u/Currymvp2]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-iran-begins-attack-on-israel-launching-dozens-of-drones-thatll-take-hours-to-arrive/

[u/barktreep]

Iran is just filling the power vacuum left by Israeli aggression and American incompetence. Iran did not invent Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon.  They also didn’t invade Iraq. But they definitely benefited from all this. 

Point is, attacking Iran would not address any of these other issues that they are leveraging to expand their influence. If Iran isn’t doing it, someone else will, until we address the underlying issues. 

[u/[deleted] → u/barktreep]

Iran has been a destabilizing presence in the middle east since the Iran-Iraq war ended. They were working to destabilize the Levant when Israel was ruled by a left-leaning coalition that was generally seeking peace.

You can't blame their behavior on the US and the Jews.

[u/barktreep → u/[deleted]]

The further back you go in history the more it becomes America’s fault. I’m just talking about the last 25 years. 

Starting your analysis after the Iran Iraq war is a tad convenient given the whole thing about the US arming Iraq and enabling a war that killed over a million people.

We could of course go further back and talk about how US involvement led to the Ayatollah in the first place. 

Not sure how instructive all this is beyond further illustrating the point that war is almost always the worst possible way to resolve conflicts and foreign intervention almost always has unintended negative consequences. 

Which is why I, and likely the King of Jordan, don’t want to see yet another war in the Middle East, even if we don’t particularly like one of, or all, the parties involved.  

[u/[deleted] → u/barktreep]

Actually the further back in history the more it becomes the fault of the British and the French. Before that it is the fault of the Ottomans. Prior to them it's the fault of the Mongols and before them it's the fault of the Abbasids. The fact that you think the US is the primary driver of modern middle east instability shows your recency bias and how shallow your understanding of the situation is.

[u/barktreep → u/[deleted]]

That’s not what recency bias is. You were the one who started going further back in time to avoid discussing contemporary issues. I just kept going to illustrate that it has no value, which you seemed to both agree with but also criticize. 

[u/[deleted] → u/barktreep]

LMFAO "Going back in time?"

To October?

[u/barktreep → u/[deleted]]

To the Iran Iraq war. 

It shouldn’t be controversial that things that happened more recently are more directly connected to what’s happening today. I track the modern day position of Iran to the Lebanon Israel wars since the second intifada, the Syrian civil war, and the Iraq war. Events that happened before that are important context maybe, but only to the extent that they led up to the events I listed. 

[u/[deleted] → u/barktreep]

Iran isn't trying to exterminate Jews because they want revenge for Mossadegh (whom the Ayotollahs hate anyway after he betrayed them in 1951 after one of their minions assisnated his predecessor on his behalf so he could become PM) they are trying to exterminate Jews because their leadership is furiously and viciously antisemitic.

Their is literally nothing that Israelis could do short of mass suicide that would appease the Iranian government and stop them from trying to destabilize the region. The only reason they weren't trying to destroy Israel prior to the late 80s was because they were preoccupied fighting Saddam Hussein and before that they were not yet in power.

[u/barktreep → u/[deleted]]

Now that’s an overly simplistic take. Like everyone else in the region, Iran uses Israel as a rallying cry to expand their influence. Their motivations are their own self-interest. 

[u/[deleted] → u/barktreep]

If their only motivation was their own self interest and expansion of influence they would target their proxies at Saudi Arabia which is their actual competitor for influence in the region.