r/dndmemes Karsus Expert Nov 08 '24

Good Job WotC Lore meme

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4.3k Upvotes

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159

u/Lord_Longface Nov 09 '24

Yall who complain when white skinned characters get blackwashed should also hate this.

Characters are what they are. Changing their race is highly disrespectful without proper cause.

That said, its even more sad (but not as frustrating) that this is probably just the artist not knowing Vecna's lore. Like, come on, it is the Lich everyone knows. You should put in the effort to learn his story.

55

u/TieberiusVoidWalker Karsus Expert Nov 09 '24

Oh yeah I agree, its also funny because in this same module Alustriel was given a darker skin tone so i guess it balances out

1

u/Any_Meringue_9085 Nov 12 '24

That's just doing nothing but with extra steps. Could have kept both of them their original color and still be balanced.

30

u/PoopIn3D Nov 09 '24

I mean yeah, race swapping characters is weird and there is usually an agenda behind it. Goes both ways.

27

u/L_knight316 Nov 09 '24

I'm not sure there's even close to an even ratio of people on this sub that get upset at blackwashing over whitewashing. I've seen a lot more people banned or blocked on social media over bring up blackwashing for "being racist," especially on social media subs/accounts with lots of rainbow flags.

10

u/Dikeleos Nov 09 '24

It’s a lose lose scenario in my opinion. Either they introduce original PoC characters and get accused of wokeism and pushing an agenda or they change races of characters and get accused of wokeism and hypocrisy. Mind you I have bigger problems than complaining over media being diverse with a range of fictional characters.

4

u/Answerisequal42 Forever DM Nov 09 '24

Yeah i agree with that.And I also think you are roght that the mistake probablylcame faom ignorance not malevolence.

1

u/Mamoswole Nov 10 '24

Didn't his hand exist long before he was introduced? And it is white, he was race changed for backstory and then an artist made him the skin color he was originally. And the character is based off the white dude that inspired the magic system.

0

u/RookieDungeonMaster Nov 10 '24

His hand is dying and decaying completely deprived of blood, it doesn't matter what color you were beforehand, any hand in those conditions is gonna be soo much paler, it's not even remotely logical or fair to use that as a metric of his original skin color

0

u/Mamoswole Nov 10 '24

It is when they clearly weren't thinking of that in the 80's when the item was introduced considering it is a character based off of a white dude who's magic system they used to make dnd

1

u/RookieDungeonMaster Nov 10 '24

My guy, the character being based on a real white guy has absolutely nothing to do with his character. They have changed the race of characters before, it's not a suddenly new thing.

Also, I don't think you actually even know what that phrase means, because unless Vance was a wizard who loved necromancy Vecna isn't based off of him, it's named after him. Which is a pretty important distinction considering the topic at hand

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u/RayForce_ Nov 09 '24

BIG NAH. People who complain about white characters being blackwashed are weird. Anyone who complains about Aragorn from Lord of the Rings being made black in MTG cards is hella weird. His race isn't even improtant to the character, it's a harmless change. And you sir, are just as weird for complaining that this new version of Vecna is different from the outdated Vecna lore. If Vecna being so bright bothers you, put on some sunglasses

21

u/SpceCowBoi Nov 09 '24

Aragorn’s race does matter though. It’s why he’s so long-lived, why (in the movies) he’s afraid to take up his birthright, why Sauron falls for his diversion at the end of the trilogy. The bloodline of Elendil and Numenor are important to who Aragorn is.

-2

u/RayForce_ Nov 09 '24

LOL no, Aragorn's skin color absolutely doesn't matter. The ancient bloodline of Elendil and Numenor could be whatever skin color you decide for them, and they could even be a people with many skin colors. Bloodline =/= specific skin color

It's so true that Aragorn's skin color wasn't important that no one could even tell Aragorn was a special bloodline just by looking at him. No one figured out his special bloodline until they learned more details about him, like his age or certain objects he carried.

2

u/SpceCowBoi Nov 09 '24

His race isn’t even important to the character

You spoke about race in your other post, not his skin colour. Those are different things. I didn’t mention skin colour once.

0

u/RayForce_ Nov 09 '24

Wow, hey, how can you tell the first image is a different race from the second one? https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/05/30/19/71580089-0-image-a-38_1685473177765.jpg

Nice bait though

2

u/SpceCowBoi Nov 09 '24

Race has nothing to do with skin colour. Race is a cultural construct, skin colour is determined by the environment and genetics. Not bait, there is a difference.

1

u/RayForce_ Nov 09 '24

You didn't answer the question. So are you implying you can tell the race difference between the movie Aragorn and the MTG Aragorn because you're analyzing the genetic structure & environmental conditions?

2

u/SpceCowBoi Nov 09 '24

I explained that race and skin colour are not connected, so that answers your question. But being of Numenorean race is important to Aragorn as a character.

Since humans have lived on Numenor for literally thousands of years, and Numenor is described as having an environment similar from Northern Europe in the north, to the Mediterranean in the south, we can pretty easily assume humans on Numenor were phenotypically similar to Europeans.

We can also easily say Numenoreans resembled Europeans because Tolkien intended for his fictional story to be adjacent to English mythology.

So yeah, you could have a black Aragon of Numenorean race, but if you want an accurate Aragorn he’d be white.

0

u/RayForce_ Nov 10 '24

Since humans have lived on Numenor for literally thousands of years, and Numenor is described as having an environment similar from Northern Europe in the north

wtfdoes this mean? Is the implication that skin colors are like pokemon types that can only exist in certain environments? Is the black numenorean Aragorn from MTG bad because he'd be incapable of existing in an imaginary fantasy world inspired by Northern Europe?? Are black dudes incapable of sipping tea and heating up beans on toast? What the fuck are you talking about bro lmao

So yeah, you could have a black Aragon of Numenorean race, but if you want an accurate Aragorn he’d be white.

MATE, Numenoreans don't live in Europe. Inspired by Europe =/= they literally live there. They live in a fantasy world that only exists in our minds. It's wild how people will say it's "innacurate" for some Numenoreans to be black because they're intended to represent Europeans, but somehow Numeroeans having a lifespan of hundreds of years is less ridiculous and fine.

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u/TieberiusVoidWalker Karsus Expert Nov 09 '24

If a changing a person race doesn't matter than people don't have a reason to change it.

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u/RayForce_ Nov 09 '24

No. Just because the skin color of characters like Aragorn & Vecna doesn't matter =/= there can't be a reason to change it. What a silly assumption lol

The reason Aragorn's skin color might have been reimagined in the MTG cards was so a bigger audience could see themselves as Aragorn, introducing new audiences to LoTR lore.

The reason Vecna's skin & hair color might have been changed is because visually, the new version is more striking. And therefore Vecna's change from normal good guy to evil lich is more visually distinct

5

u/TieberiusVoidWalker Karsus Expert Nov 09 '24
  1. As others have pointed out they do matter
  2. You contradicted yourself because it must matter if it can broaden an audience 
  3. Are you implying nonwhite people can't be normal guys?

0

u/RayForce_ Nov 09 '24
  1. Nope, Aragorn's skin color doesn't matter to Aragorn's character.

  2. Saying a character's skin color isn't important to the character itself doesn't contradict how a character's skin color might make them more appealing to different audiences.

  3. You're arguing with your own imagination, buddy.

5

u/TieberiusVoidWalker Karsus Expert Nov 09 '24
  1. His race, as in a Númenórean, matters to his story and just randomly changing how Númenóreans look change a lot of things about the story
  2. If it matters to the audience than it matter to the character
  3. "The reason Vecna's skin & hair color might have been changed is because visually, the new version is more striking. And therefore Vecna's change from normal good guy to evil lich is more visually distinct"

Sounds like you are saying a nonwhite person can't be a normal guy, like unironically this sounds racist my guy

1

u/RayForce_ Nov 09 '24

Name a single thing in the LoTR lore that doesn't work if Aragorn is a Numerorean that has black skin, I'll wait. And I got a feeling I'll be waiting a very long time

Sounds like you are saying a non white person can't be a normal guy

Saying there is a normal white guy =/= other guys can't be normal

Plz, keep the virtue signaling between your legs, it's boring & unsightly

5

u/TieberiusVoidWalker Karsus Expert Nov 09 '24

I don't virtue signal, you literally said something that sounded racist.

Also first and foremost logic consistency is important for world build, Aragorn being black breaks some of this. Either he is unique for some reason or all of Numernor is black despite everyone else being European.

Also the whole fact that LOTR is supposed to be a European mythology so it takes place in Europe long before most migrations so the population is mostly white as a result. 

0

u/RayForce_ Nov 09 '24

This mf'er calling other people racist while arguing in favor of "race logic" and complaining that artists would dare touch the skin tones of characters lol

You know LoTR isn't actually European history, and is in fact completely fantasy right? How tf does a black Aragorn break your "European race logic" but Aragorn's race living to be 200yo make perfect sense?

Thank you for proving I was right, you're never gonna have a real reason for why a mythical fantasy race can't be black

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