r/CitiesSkylines • u/danbywinby • Jun 13 '23
CS2 will not have bicycles at launch News
CO has confirmed on twitter that CS2 will not have bicycles at launch.
Personally this is a huge dissapointment as bicycles have become such a core feature of CS1 especially after the recent updates that made more roads with bike lanes available in the game.
https://twitter.com/ColossalOrder/status/1668601581363757057?t=HQPDO98XmQa78g7G7kD77A&s=19
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u/Legal_Sugar Jun 13 '23
Angry dutch noises
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u/DisgustingMilkyWater Jun 13 '23
Godsamme zeg, ik had heel graag de fietsen willen zien in plaats van heel veel auto’s
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u/BrockPlaysFortniteYT Jun 13 '23
Just saw that super weird it seems so basic wonder why
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Jun 13 '23
the first game launched without a day night cycle
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u/YoungWallace23 Jun 13 '23
I still play it without the night cycle 😂 it’s just so much harder to see anything
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u/MySpiritAnimalSloth Jun 13 '23
Agreed, I usually wait for night to go away to continue building or de-activate night/day cycle when I build.
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u/RonanCornstarch Jun 13 '23
same, i grabbed a mod that kept the sun in the same place at all times. i got tired of having to wait for the sun to come up to build all the time. but i also wanted the days to keep counting.
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u/linus140 Jun 13 '23
You can disable day/night cycle in gameplay settings and the days still tick by
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u/quick20minadventure Jun 13 '23
My guess? Because they're busy simulating citizens and industries.
It's going to be a rather complex citizen simulation and resource management. Slightly faster walking citizen isn't a priority i guess. Maybe they want to include bicycle and 2 wheeler traffic later on in more complex manner.
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u/Ekgladiator Jun 13 '23
There are motorcycles in the game (you can spot a few of them in the trailer) so it is just limited to bikes. (Idk about mopeds)
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u/HawKster_44 Jun 14 '23
Well motorcycles are a car skin. They only use car infrastructure. Bicycles on the other hand would use their own infrastructure (+ car roads). So my guess is that the people working on removing pocket cars and implementing real parking right now will do the same for bicycles after.
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u/reflect25 Jun 14 '23
I'd guess motorcycles are just the same as 'cars' simulation-wise. Bikes would be difference since they'd either need to use sidewalks/bike lanes. Well assuming its not just using car lanes.
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u/tpc0121 Jun 13 '23
because obvious DLC = $$$
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u/RenderEngine Jun 13 '23
well to be fair I think they have found a pretty good compromise with DLCs and continuing to maintain games for a very long time
and every DLC update usually also comes with some nice additions for free
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u/skyseeker_31 Jun 13 '23
I agree. It must be hard to keep the bucks coming in with this type of game. They're not the biggest company here and they seem to treat their devs as human beings, so if that means buying (fairly cheap) DLCs, for such amazing games, sign me up.
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u/rbnlegend Jun 13 '23
Revenue is vital for any business. Selling a product that only generates revenue once per customer is not sustainable. They have to release add ons or updates or go subscription or something. I'm with you, I am fine with supporting the company by paying for dlc. They have reason to keep improving the game, that's worth paying for. Dlc is a good way to do it, because if the dlc doesn't improve the experience, I don't have to get it.
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u/SwissyVictory Jun 14 '23
It's absolutely sustainable, companies did it for most of gamings history. The things you're talking about mostly didn't even exist for games 15 years ago.
But why would you?
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u/ekeryn Jun 13 '23
It's the Paradox business model. EUIV and HoI IV rely totally on its DLCs to be properly fun (imo). Although it's a bit scummy, it's way less predatory than the Sims for example (again, imo).
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u/the123king-reddit Jun 13 '23
Thee sims is a base framework priced at $75, with everything you actually want spread over a dozen DLCs priced at $40 each
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u/the_colonelclink Jun 13 '23
Ah, the Sims 4 base game is actually free - on EA at least.
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u/TchTlk Jun 13 '23
And as a result of this business model, it seems they release games fast. Get the basics done and everything else is DLC.
I think it's pretty remarkable, it wasn't too long ago I heard they was working on it
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u/SwissyVictory Jun 14 '23
You don't want to announce a game too early or too late. A year to 6 months is probally the sweet spot.
Just enough to build hype and for everyone to hear about it, but not too long that people forget or lose interest.
They could have been working on it for years.
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u/Dear_m0le Jun 13 '23
Can some go and tell that to our Dutch colleagues? I am not brave enough
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u/TimTrezeguet Jun 13 '23
This is a deal breaker for me
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u/The_Dok33 Jun 13 '23
Same here. Total deal breaker
That and the fact I don't have a PC that can run the game....
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u/sternburg_export Jun 13 '23
I really don't begrudge Paradox their success. But I personally will keep my hands off C:S 2 until the first few updates, patches and DLC are through and the main game itself is on discount. They raised me that way.
I'm certainly not going to fall back on a game without trams and bikes and parks just to have a few things in the game that I get in my game with mods.
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u/Duke_of_Redditland Jun 13 '23
I believe there are trams in CS2, it was shown twice in the trailer.
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u/sternburg_export Jun 13 '23
Yeah, whatever. Something important will be missing and I like my game as it is.
(thank you nonetheless for your helpfull information)
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u/MySpiritAnimalSloth Jun 13 '23
I got CS for free with the PSN subscription and most of the DLCs in the mega-pack which was on sale when I bought it.
The only thing I paid full price was the Airport DLC.
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u/sternburg_export Jun 13 '23
The only thing I paid full price was the Airport DLC.
Haha, that's the only DLC I do not own these days (they where absolutely affordable lately).
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u/K_N0RRIS Yes, mods are necessary Jun 13 '23
Bikes are an afterthought. Man this game is really going the realistic route.
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u/-Neuroblast- Jun 13 '23
Nah just the if we give them the complete game the DLCs will be less desirable so we will withhold essential features and sell them later instead-route.
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u/Myojin- Jun 13 '23
I had such high hopes we’d get a more complete game and then they’d get creative with what they’ll add in DLC.
Guess I was wrong. Cash grab again, no creativity, I’m probably gonna just keep playing cs1 by the looks of it.
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u/-Neuroblast- Jun 13 '23
I support your decision.
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u/Myojin- Jun 13 '23
Such a shame. They clearly have no faith in their own teams creativity and ability to think of new DLC, instead they’ll just rehash the same shit and withhold basic things like…. Bicycles.
/sigh
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u/willy299 Jun 14 '23
Trams are in the game, day/night cycles are in the game, weather is in the game, mod-only features like precision road building comes standard now - I think it’s unfair to see there’s no bikes in CS2 and exclaim “they’re withholding key features intentionally!”
I’d much rather not have bikes at launch than for them to add bikes and not add one of the myriad of previously-DLC-only features to CS2.
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u/Bobspineable Jun 14 '23
They are, they are focusing on a more realistic simulation, better to get the working well and add bikes later then add them and be a mess
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u/Muse4Games Bus transit best transit Jun 13 '23
Now breaks me my clog! This pikken we not! I'll fiets over to Collossal Order/Paradox Interactive to have a few woorden with them! >:(
this is satire altough iam sad
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u/untitledjuan Jun 14 '23
I was hoping Cities Skylines 2 to be less centred on cars than Cities Skylines 1
:(
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u/MonsterHunter6353 Jun 13 '23
Damn they said in a reply under that tweet that therell be a development diary on July 10th going over zoning as well
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u/No-Lunch4249 Jun 13 '23 edited Jun 13 '23
This is certainly a disappointment but also expecting CS2 to incorporate all DLC features of CS1 at launch is incredibly unrealistic.
Far more important IMO are engine/efficiency improvements. And the much more granular level of zoning that was depicted is also a huge improvement
Edit to further emphasize disappointment in not having bikes, because people seem to think I'm okay with not having bikes haha.
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u/viniciustk Othercakes Jun 13 '23
yeah, i'm looking forward to the deep and more complex simulations, that alone justifies the sequel for me.
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Jun 13 '23
For me I just want pedestrians to NOT walk out into traffic and for cars to wait for pedestrians. I wonder if there will be collisions and traffic accidents that would require more use of police and the fire department. Could add in tow trucks too as a DLC.
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u/viniciustk Othercakes Jun 13 '23
my main concern with CS1 is that it's too easy to make a utopia, where everyone has high education and live in fancy level 5 apartments lol. I want the need to plan how i should solve the problems in my city, deal with run-down neighborhoods, crime, poverty, homeless etc, and see how i could improve my city and make it more prosperous with actual challenge built into this process.
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u/jimmy_three_shoes Jun 13 '23
Yeah, I think Industry 4.0 really makes the game too easy. Needing to maintain a balance of high-income and low-income Cims to make a functional city where all job levels are balanced seems like it'd be a decent challenge, even though it goes against our instincts to make things nice for everyone.
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u/Designer-Mirror-7995 Jun 13 '23
But Cities was in response to players playing other building games but wanting the 'ease' you speak of.
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u/viniciustk Othercakes Jun 13 '23
there should be probably some game mode for the people who just want to "city paint" the city on the map, it's a great majority of the playerbase.
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u/Saint_The_Stig Jun 13 '23
I do hope they add bikes back in as a more advanced system. Right now they are pretty OP as they are really just the best at everything, which is kind of fair given how good they are IRL.
But In CS1 you can just slap some unprotected bike lines on your 6 lane arterial and Cims will gladly ride next to traffic.
It would be nice when they do add it in it has a bit more complexity like bike lanes appeal depending on traffic levels and options for transit. Like say bike capacity on trains and trams. You can have one with a bike car that carries less people but can carry more bikes. Or maybe adding in cargo bikes for some deliveries that would make sense for them.
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u/drewgriz Jun 13 '23
That's a good point. Everyone always talks about the pocket cars of CS1, but bikes also evaporate when cims get to their destination. The more I read through this thread the more I really like the idea of bikes getting the full DLC treatment.
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u/No-Lunch4249 Jun 13 '23
Yeah agreed I hope that this serves as an opportunity to incorporate some things like that, as well as adding things like cargo bikes as a potential van substitute for business traffic
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u/derigin CHIRP CHIRP Jun 13 '23
Yeah, I'd much rather they implement features found in CS1 and its DLCs gradually if it means that they spend more time fleshing them out for (eventual) implementation in CS2.
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u/djtrace1994 Jun 13 '23
Bicycles are just a strange choice, mainly because After Dark is free on consoles.
For anyone playing the console version, bicycles are a base game feature.
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u/LofiSynthetic Jun 13 '23
Yeah as a console player TIL bicycles were not in the original base game
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Jun 13 '23
Bicycles are hardly a "feature" in a modern city builder - they're a basic sight in practically any place in the world - there's billions of them out there.
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Jun 13 '23
Hey, we are Europeans. In some cities in the US, they haven't seen a bicycle since the coming of the motorcar!
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u/San4311 Jun 13 '23
Ye but like, the devs are European... hell there even is a specific EU building style toggle.
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u/wasmic Jun 13 '23
Bicycles shouldn't have been a DLC feature in C:S 1 either. They should absolutely be a base feature in any serious city building game.
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u/Mazisky Jun 13 '23
Agree. Content can be added later while lacking core mechanics cannot be fixed with dlcs
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u/Kehwanna Jun 13 '23
Agreed. I wrote this elsewhere, but I would be perfectly cool if the graphics looked like CS1 but had a MUCH better engine that allowed us to use all tiles (without having to use the 81 tile mod) and build detailed cities without worrying about lag or crashes. A great engine is just a big selling-point for me.
Hey, but a good engine with good graphics and realistic looking buildings is welcomed too! I'm looking forward to this game, especially since it isn't being overhyped.
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Jun 13 '23
While the style of vanilla CS1 wasn’t bad visually, it was way out of whack when it came to scaling. Later DLCs tried to rectify that problem and get more realistic, now it’s a mess. Putting this much work into the style and scale will be worth it for CS2 to avoid these problems
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u/Kehwanna Jun 13 '23
What you said also has me hyped about what we're going to see on Steam Workshop as we're not going to have to do as much rejecting of buildings that are just not to scale with the vanilla assets of our cities. I had a few casinos that were much larger than commercial high rises, which looked ridiculous.
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Jun 13 '23
Might seem like an extreme take, but I was planning on pre-ordering the game, now I won't buy it until they add bikes/bike lanes.
The absolute primary thing I do in all my cities in the current game is make them bikeable, walkable and transit (tram) oriented.
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u/EleventyElevens Jun 13 '23
100% same! Love making the cities with so many bike lanes and varied zoning, its impractical for people with cars. 😁
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u/Scoobz1961 Uncivil Engineering Expert Jun 13 '23
There is absolutely nothing extreme about that. Of all things to scam people to buy DLCs they had to go and choose bikes. I guess it's a good choice, people will definitively buy that one.
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u/masei- Jun 13 '23
Yeah bikes are one of my favorite parts. Definitely not going to be pre-ordering or buying until then as well
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u/LionKingGamer Jun 13 '23
Well in the trailer. The bit in front of the university is walking and tram only so there is certainly an aspect to that in cs2
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u/ThomasNorge224 Jun 13 '23
Time to wait a few years so i can buy basic things as a dlc
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u/HeiligeJungfrau Jun 13 '23
its gonna be the same shit as cs1
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u/MisoRamenSoup Jun 13 '23
At least with CS1 You had the excuse of first game. new way to develop, integrate and add ideas that came after. CS2 is likely just intentional holding back for DLC and can't hide behind any excuse.
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u/mikami677 Jun 13 '23
When they announced CS2 my first thought was "I look forward to playing that two years after it comes out."
Now that I know it'll be on Game Pass I'll probably try it out before then though, since it won't cost me any extra.
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u/PatrusoGE Jun 14 '23
No bicycles in a 2023 city builder.
We are doomed.
No, seriously, this is so fucked up.
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u/hyperiondc Jun 13 '23
Pretty weird to not include one of the most popular and basic form of transportation ever.
I guess the reason is... $$ DLC $$
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u/Grantrello Jun 13 '23
Aw and here I was hoping for better cycling infrastructure than in CS1 :/. The lack of protected bike lanes in the current game was really something I was hoping they'd fix in the new one, especially with more and more cities irl building more bike infrastructure to encourage low-emission travel.
I'll have to see what else is announced before I make judgements but so far I'm not seeing much to convince me that CS2 is enough of an improvement over the original to justify buying it at full price.
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u/SomeKidFromPA Jun 13 '23
And so the Paradox dlc strategy begins.
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u/DasPossum Jun 13 '23
What do you mean begins? This is how they operated since day one of CS1. Anyone who thought we’d get 100% of the 8 years of CS1 content in CS2 was too optimistic!
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u/SomeKidFromPA Jun 13 '23
It begins for Cities 2..? Obviously it was going to happen. I’ve been telling people on this sub for months not to expect anything but slightly upgraded launch Cities 1. I’m actually kinda surprised how much from the early DLCs seems to be in the game.
I do think trams over bikes is a choice.. but I also think more people would be willing to pay for bikes over trams so..
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u/michael199310 Jun 13 '23
Definitely not 100%, but at least some % of the DLCs features should come in the base CS2. I'm more worried that it will be like Sims 3 and 4, where many DLCs for 4 were just copy-pasted but with less features than their equivalent from 3.
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Jun 13 '23
Maybe it’s to spotlight all the improvements they’re making to the cars.
But yeah, disappointing.
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u/-Neuroblast- Jun 13 '23
Maybe it’s to spotlight all the improvements they’re making to the cars.
Nah, just the regular old withhold wanted features so it can be sold as DLC strategy.
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u/Kehwanna Jun 13 '23
WELL THEN I AM NOT PLAYING....the vanilla game with bikes, then. I'll use a mod or something until the DLC or update gets released. I still have the first game with most of the DLCs to keep me entertained until CS2 fleshes out more and goes on sale.
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Jun 13 '23
I'd rather they do it right instead of half-assed like in CS1. I'm from the Netherlands, and biking infrastructure is amazing here. I'd want the same for CS2. As in, special paths, special traffic lights, special protections, electric bikes, "bakfietsen", children on bikes, biking across parks, offroad biking, bike parking, bike theft, etc.
Not: Random civ spawns a bike, despawns bike, crosses road, spawns bike again, refuses to ride over park lanes (pedestrians only for some reason), needs dedicated bike lines (which cannot be used by pedestrians for some reason)...
So yeah, I hope it'll be in a future expansion or something.
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u/RenegadeReprobate Jun 13 '23
It’s a Paradox game, I’ve accepted that I won’t play it for ~2-3 years.
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u/Myojin- Jun 13 '23
They’re gonna mess this up.
They need to launch CS2 as a more complete game, they can’t just withhold things we’ve grown used to having in our cities behind DLC.
They need to think of new exciting things for DLC and launch CS2 with many features we’ve already come to love, or I’m not buying it.
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u/urlacher14 Road Anarchy is love, RA is life Jun 13 '23
I mean they are already including day/night, ports, more road options, industries, what looks like modular buildings, more zoning. I'd say for the small amount we already know it looks a lot beefier than CS1 on release.
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u/Myojin- Jun 13 '23
And then they go and leave out…. Bicycles?
Yeah I’m gonna hold off until I know A LOT more.
I enjoy your optimism though, I hope you’re right.
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u/Kichyss Jun 13 '23
A good reason to still hold on to CS1 for me.
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u/EleventyElevens Jun 13 '23
No, I'm with you here. What I've seen so far isnt worth upgrading for if theyre leaving behind my literal favorite way to make a fucking city. 😡
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u/LofiSynthetic Jun 13 '23
This may be the thing that holds me back from getting it at launch, then. Bicycle infrastructure is a core part of how I build cities in CS1, it would feel like a big step backwards not to have it. I’m sure it’ll come as DLC but I won’t want to buy the game and wait around for it, not knowing when it’ll come.
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u/made-of-questions Jun 13 '23
And this is why preordering is generally a bad idea for a digital product. You're just giving away any leverage you have as a consumer to influence the quality of the product.
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u/EleventyElevens Jun 13 '23 edited Jun 13 '23
Lmaooo that's so fucking stupid. I was going to get this at launch, but if theyre piecemealing BICYCLES as a DLC? I got other shit to play.
Seriously. People can carry them fucking around IRL and they can't figure it out? Ridiculous. Love bicycles.
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u/revolutionary-panda Jun 13 '23
Looks like I won't be playing CS2 at launch.
The ability to design a city around transit and active mobility is essential to me. Also it kind of worries me that it's symbolic for CS2 remaining rather car centric overall. Now would have been a good time to take on board more of the urbanist ideas that have been going viral on the internet over the past decade.
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Jun 13 '23
So that’ll be in a DLC or something then. I think they are holding things back for DLC which is fair enough really.
In essence their ideal is to follow a trajectory similar to the first game, so they need things to include in DLC / free patches.
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u/Keberro The rent is too damn high! Jun 13 '23
I wouldn't mind a biking DLC as long as it's not just bicycles.
I'd buy a DLC if it includes: - different types of bikes, like sports bikes or cargo bikes - a huge variety of paths and roads - some bike-specific buildings like bike racks and lots - vehicles that are similar to bikes like scooters or skateboards
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u/mc_enthusiast Traffic and looks are all that matter Jun 13 '23
I also feel like transfer points from truck to cargo bike might be a better alternative to the pedestrian area service points that we saw in CS1.
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Jun 13 '23
That would be cool. Maybe (as silly as it sounds) food delivery personnel as well.
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u/Keberro The rent is too damn high! Jun 13 '23
Honestly, I'd prefer that over every citizen driving their cars to the restaurant on the other side of town.
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u/KhausTO Jun 13 '23
It would be awesome if they include a bikeshare service (I assume these are common in Europe, large NA cities like NY, Toronto, Montreal all have them). Would be cool to be able to place bikeshare docks near transit, parks, tourism areas and have those serve as last-mile transport option. Could build it with a main service building, and a couple style of docks, have a few service vehicles for "balancing the inventory". It could have its own demand system to ensure there are enough dock space and bikes for demand in an area.
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u/YoungWallace23 Jun 13 '23
Wow, this actually made it hit for the first time just how basic the new release will be. It’s definitely going to feel like a step back until a lot of these things, like bikes, become part of the game
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u/Tobbakken00 Jun 13 '23
Not surprising. Did you really expect all the things that was added over the 8 years would be in the game at launch?
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u/slimeyena Jun 13 '23
I'm surprised, it seems like a pretty core part of Cities Skylines now, especially after a lot of stuff from the After Dark DLC which introduced them seem so integral now, like the day/night cycle.
But not terribly disappointed, I can live without it for however long it takes for a DLC that adds them to come around.
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u/henrywrover Jun 13 '23
Agree massively. I wasn't expecting everything, but something like bikes are so fundamental to transit, they should be a core implementation. Would be like leaving out metro in terms of importance imo.
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u/wasmic Jun 13 '23
Bicycles should not be a DLC feature in neither C:S 1 nor 2. They are an absolutely basic part of urban planning and city infrastructure, and it's fair to expect that a modern city builder should include them from the get-go.
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u/RonanCornstarch Jun 13 '23
i can be understanding that they were a DLC item in CS1 (i honestly just assumed they were always in the base game). but i am far less understanding that such a basic thing will be DLC in CS2.
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Jun 13 '23
But it may be that the get added as part of a free update. For example if they release a Mass Transit DLC or Plazas & Promenades DLC then bikes and cycle lanes would be perfect to add as a free update to go alongside.
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Jun 13 '23
When it is something so basic and commonplace in the world, then definitely yes.
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Jun 13 '23
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u/No-Lunch4249 Jun 13 '23 edited Jun 13 '23
If you look at other comparable games such as Crusader Kings or Civilization, you’ll see this just isn’t what is done in the game industry. Certainly many features from DLC of the prior edition are included base game in the sequel, while others are removed to be redone/re-examined, and others are removed never to return.
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Jun 13 '23
Except sims franchise.
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Jun 13 '23
I was going to mention the Sims as well... They are notoriously bad for re-adding the same dlc from previous titles. EA has to make money from screwing their fan base and production companies over. That's all they ever know how to do.
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u/menerell Jun 13 '23
Same story with Victoria 3 and KSP 2. the original games had way more content than the sequel. They are going to give people a lot of content or it will flop.
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u/Alien_Cha1r Jun 13 '23
they need to become free once they release though, at least if you have the appropriate DLC, the game is already twice as expensive as CS1
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u/star_wars_fan1 Jun 13 '23
How tf am I supposed to make a dutch city if the most important thing is missing??
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u/A1rh3ad Jun 13 '23
Yeah that's scummy of paradox. I guess I'm sticking with CS1 then. Bare bones base game so they can sell their DLC later. Nah, I'll wait until it's finished and on sale.
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u/LookAtThisRhino Jun 13 '23
This is such a big deal for me that I might wait for bikes to be introduced before buying
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u/Mobilegamesarebad Jun 14 '23
I expected CS2 to have all the current content that CS1 has when it launches then they can add new stuff later.
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u/SomeInternetGuitar Jun 14 '23
Not CO turning “Cities: Skylines” back into “American Cities: Skylines”
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u/Appleanche Jun 13 '23
This is disappointing because the main thing I'm excited about with CS2 is having to rely less on mods that end up potentially catastrophically breaking every update.
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u/psyche-processor Jun 13 '23
I'm not getting the game until there's an alternative for personal vehicles inside cities. They're a blight on humanity irl, I don't need it in my escapism.
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Jun 13 '23
No offence to y’all super fans but this company is greedy as FUCK! I miss when games were just games and not money grabs. Keeping very basic parts of a base game to DLC’s is insane
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Jun 13 '23
That's a Paradox game after all, what were you guys excepting? Release the %100 the game? What we going to get is probably less than %50 of game in terms of contents. We'll probably get bikes after a year.
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Jun 13 '23
Bikes are so basic and commonplace across the world they should be in the base game without question.
Monorails, cable cars and other 'uncommon' transport can come later but no bicycles is a joke.
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u/RudytheDominator Robert Moses was Here Jun 13 '23
Realistic American planning and traffic engineering go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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u/Macquarrie1999 Civil Engineer Jun 13 '23
No preordering for me then. I design my cities around cyclists.
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u/liebenmin Jun 13 '23
if they did reserve bicycles for a dlc, i, at least, hope they will come in an expansion focused on pedestrians and walkable cities or mass transit. i'd like to see utility cycling integrated with other car-alternative systems, instead of added as just an afterthought.