Scoop: U.S. raises concerns about attacks on minorities with new Syrian government

[u/Currymvp2]

https://www.axios.com/2024/12/30/syria-us-meeting-attacks-alawites

[u/Creative_Hope_4690]

Several videos circulating on social media purport to show armed militants — allegedly affiliated with HTS or the security forces of the new government— beating, cursing, and humiliating Alawite men while arresting them, or otherwise making threats toward Alawites.

I seen some of the videos by accident it’s plain torture. The US got 10x shit for doing 1% of what I seen in those videos. I guess the standard is 10x higher for the west.

[u/namey-name-name → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

To be fair it’s not unreasonable to expect more from liberal democracies than literal jihadists. The problem is that the anti-AmeriKKKan leftists are also pro-jihadist

[u/kaesura → u/namey-name-name]

USA was 1000x worse in Iraq which this situation most resembles (literally both baathist dictators) . Within days of the invasion, USA soldiers had killed 17 peaceful protestors in one incident. USA soldiers had several massacres after that one . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah_killings_of_April_2003

And there was widesoread recreational torture by american soldiers in abu gharib , camp bucca etc

[u/namey-name-name → u/kaesura]

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/21/1164916991/looking-back-on-shocking-revelations-u-s-forces-tortured-iraqis-at-abu-ghraib

Yikes. Jesus fucking Christ.

[u/kaesura → u/namey-name-name]

Jolani was literally in that camp and others like that for five years

[u/Lyndons-Big-Johnson → u/kaesura]

Well that can't be good

[u/kaesura → u/Lyndons-Big-Johnson]

Eh. I think he hates Russia and Iran far more after fighting them for over decade and then bombing his hospitals

Also pervesly, jihadists had the best time in those camps since they ended up running them . Jolani was a popular Arabic teacher in camp.

[u/Lyndons-Big-Johnson → u/kaesura]

Yeah

Of course the biggest twist of all will be when it's revealed he was actually our informant within the prison camp jihadists, and he's been a CIA asset the whole way

GWB's whole war in Iraq was actually a long term neocon play, for the toppling of 2 baathist regimes for the price of 1 invasions a

Cue Jolani on the aircraft carrier, mission accomplished

[u/kaesura → u/Lyndons-Big-Johnson]

oh-it's an accepted fact among jihadists that jolani has been leaking the usa the locations of senior al qaeda leaders for years. it might be exagerrated but it was really convient how all the advisors his aq "boss" sent him ended up being drone striked. of course, that's for power struggle reason.

even if that's a conspiracy, it's been confirmed that he has been working with turkish intelligence for years to eliminate isis in his region.

[u/jaroborzita → u/kaesura]

I don’t think he was poorly treated. Arrested more than a year after the Abu ghraib scandal ended in court martials

[u/chitowngirl12 → u/kaesura]

Yes. This is what I was thinking. It's really hypocritical for the US to be lecturing someone who spent five years dealing with "US hospitality" in Iraq and who saw up close some of the excesses of US troops during the Iraq War.

[u/kaesura → u/chitowngirl12]

It's mostly cringe to me since the abuses are basically about soliders beating up armed militants they are arresting (wrong but extremely common in all armies) while usa police constantly does the same with unarmed civilians.

and the usa hasn't yet given any temporary waivers to sanctions on syria. sanctions designed to take down a dictator that used chemical weapons not to make syria a perfect western style democracy. sanctions that were designed to prevent rebuilding in syria at all -targetting the energy and construction sector.

as a result, there is widespread issues with transportation due to fuel shortages and electricty is only around 2 hours a day since they aren't getting resupplied with oil from iran.

this stuff destabilizes the country. the new goverment is doing much better than the usa so the usa should at least waive some sanctions for now and resume them if the new government turns abusive verus punishing millions of ordinary syrians out of bureacratic inerta.

[u/chitowngirl12 → u/kaesura]

I think there will be waivers for some of the sanctions. The issue with the Caesar Act is bureaucratic inertia. The extension was added to the NDAA which was introduced in July. I do wonder if there is coordination with the incoming Trump administration on the Syria file and how much will carry over after January 20th. For instance, will Rubenstein continue to babysit the transition like he is doing now? I'm assuming that he was appointed with the understanding that he'll continue as special envoy.

[u/kaesura → u/chitowngirl12]

The thing is that they are being slow on the waivers when waiving them is really important to stabilizing the country. The rest of the world isn't waiting for the usa.

Trump administrations hasn't been great at coordinating so who knows. Turkey clear thinks that Trump will withdraw troops from Turkey, leaving the SDF to Turkey.

and then you have Rubenstein parroting stuff that the Iranians are spreading online to try to take down the new government.

[u/2017_Kia_Sportage → u/namey-name-name]

And people will defend the Iraq war.

[u/Loud-Chemistry-5056 → u/namey-name-name]

Fuck me, that shit is not the goods.

[u/namey-name-name → u/Loud-Chemistry-5056]

Fuck me

If you ever get sent back to 2003 and get put in an American Iraqi prison, you… uhhh… might get your wish.

American troops stripped Iraqi prisoners naked. They leashed them and forced them into contorted or sexual positions.

Like I’m trying not to sound like a leftist, but holy shit this is fucked.

[u/aquamosaica → u/namey-name-name]

You may want to consider why you think acknowledging potential war crimes committed by US forces has anything to do with being a leftist…

[u/namey-name-name → u/aquamosaica]

Because leftists exaggerate western war crimes all the time like pearl clutching leaches right before glazing every authoritarian dictatorship known to man

[u/aquamosaica → u/namey-name-name]

Yeah but the same tactics are used by right wing supporters of authoritarianism as well, such as Russia. It is also in their interests to denigrate the US and stoke internal divisions in our politics. I do understand this is a common criticism of the online left though. Just saying there’s no real correlation between leftist views and criticizing unnecessary violence.

[u/namey-name-name → u/aquamosaica]

I mean, maybe it’s just me but most rightists I’ve seen would sooner glorify US mistreatment of Iraqis than criticize it. They only really seem to have an issue with violence and war crimes when it’s white people being hurt.

[u/Creative_Hope_4690 → u/namey-name-name]

That was a resort compared the Iraqi prison before. That prison was 10x better and rightfully became a big deal cause American expected more.

The real tragedy was it added no value at least with CIA prison they were trying to get intel here the army just went wild for fun.

[u/kaesura → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

Ironically our camps are known as jihad university because of how much the inmates networked and planned with each other

Jihadists had the run of the prisons since they were the most organized and well behaved

[u/2017_Kia_Sportage → u/kaesura]

Funnily enough, a similar thing happened in Ireland after the 1916 rising, when the British interned anyone suspected of being involved. They weren't when they went in, but after being interned with people who were they became a lot more sympathetic to their ideals.

[u/Ok-Swan1152 → u/namey-name-name]

Were you born yesterday or something?

[u/AutoModerator → u/kaesura]

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[u/ProfessionalCreme119 → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

On one of those particular websites (that will probably get me banned for sharing) that shows those kind of videos there have been more than a few executions of Alawites that have taken place as well. And from the looks of it they are beating the young ones while putting the older ones who were in charge in ditches and lighting them up.

I get what this article is trying to do. But at the same time a little honesty would be appreciated

[u/jaroborzita → u/ProfessionalCreme119]

How much of that is confirmed new footage tho?

[u/chitowngirl12 → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

Some of the videos are old videos that are being pushed by Russian propaganda and Iranian propaganda as new. It's always good to raise concerns but it seems overblown. Things have calmed down. It was amazingly only a one-day flare up.

[u/shumpitostick → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

the standard is 10x higher for the west

Always has been

[u/Currymvp2]

By minorities, this article means it's mostly Alawites. Christians and Druze have been treated relatively well so far apparently

[u/Legodude293 → u/Currymvp2]

Makes sense, Druze and Christians were much more involved in early anti regime protests, for many Sunnis Alawites are synonymous with the regime

[u/WAGRAMWAGRAM → u/Legodude293]

for many Sunnis Alawites are synonymous with the regime

yo dats racist

[u/chitowngirl12 → u/Currymvp2]

It seems like there were some excesses dealing with arrested regime holdovers. And yes, it is good to remind everyone that you have to arrest even bad people under the laws of the Geneva Convention.

[u/kaesura]

From the experts, the levels of sectarian violence are far below expected levels.Especially since hts foot soldiers basically all have family members killed by the assad regime who delibaretly made alawites vastly over reprsented in the security appartus. Positioning it that alawites had to be brutual towards civilians to avoid being killed by the angry sunni majority

Syria across sects are unified in celebration of the assad regime being gone. HTS has come out and said they will only proscute the worst offenders and gave all conscripts amnnesty. Despite that, there is a big viral campaign to promote sectarian violence to takedown the new regime

Alot of the viral videos are old , aren't hts ( old videos of Assad or isis, news one sna and bandits impersonating hts ).There has been some unacceptable violence but far below expected levels and frankly at the level found in almost every military.

hts soldiers are primarily beating up some armed militants that resist arrest. hts are primarily arresting two groups .

The first the most infamous war criminals in Syria . This isn't just Alawites but also Sunnis .But these people are basically Syrian Nazis . They spread social media posts feeding prisoners to their pet lion. Or are known for massacring dozens of children . When this happens, soldiers across all countries whose families have been killed by people like them , aren't going to be nice arresting them let alone in the middle east.

Second group are Alawite/Sunni militias/crime gangs that have refused to disband. These militias have been ambushing hts soldiers including killing 14 in one day. In return , hts used classic anti insurgency tactics against these militias . Suspects who resisted arrest after shooting at hts soldiers are often beat up.

At the same time , hts has been careful to not abusive civilian or demobilized soldiers . With officers punishing soldiers who do so and hts has been holding sessions with local Alawite leadership to ensure mutual safety .

Lastly , this burst of violence has already calmed down . Hts show of force encouraged militants to turn on their guns to reconciliation centers. The Alawite militias realized they couldn't fight back. In return , hts has deceased their sweeps Alawite leaders also put out statements supporting hts and denouncing violence .

So this complaint is rich coming from the state department who was in talks to normalize with the Assad regime who committed 100x this stuff daily

https://x.com/Charles_Lister/status/1873829995203952714

[u/Creative_Hope_4690 → u/kaesura]

How is rich coming for the state department to raise this issue?

We raise issues with all our Middle East partners when they do bad things despite working with them.

[u/kaesura → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

Mostly annoyed since USA hasn't even temporaily waived the sanctions cripplingly syria that were put on syria to get assad out. they can always put them back if the current government goes evil.

but right now, the government wants to improve electricity for everyone and improve other basic services. our sanctions literally prohibit anyone from doing so.

[u/Creative_Hope_4690 → u/kaesura]

What? You expect sanction to be removed during a lame duck session and without knowing how the government will move forward?

And for that reason the state department should not raise human rights concerns? I am personally a realist think human rights concert is to heavily centred by the US and the west for that example but your logic does not follow.

[u/kaesura → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

I am talking about temporary waivers on a sub section of the sanctions that were designed to topple a man who killed 600K of his population not to be make syria a better governed country than jordan.

and considering that the united states is not speaking out about israel firing on two different sets of unarmed protestors in newly occupied syrian territory, their words ring very hallow.

[u/Creative_Hope_4690 → u/kaesura]

Lol 😂 good one let’s remove sanctions without knowing how the new government will govern.

[u/kaesura → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

the sanctions could cause the new government to fall apart leading to a most worst situation

and the new government has already been governing better than the majority of middle eastern countries, including ones we are allied with.

i am advocating for temporary waivers that can easily be put back on the government turns evil.

[u/Creative_Hope_4690 → u/kaesura]

The rebels that took down Assad that now have more resources are at risk of collapsing?

[u/kaesura → u/Creative_Hope_4690]

so many new governments fall apart because they aren't able to deliver basic services for their population. funding the military isn't the problem.

the issue is the civilian population running out of fuel for their electricity generators since that was supplied by iran. cities losing access to electricity is exactly something that can cause societal wide unrest and is extremely preventable.

do you want to push the new government back into the arms of iran and russia because they can actually supply them with basic things that the sanctions prohibit?

temporarily lifting sanctions to allow surges in humanitarian aid is the smart thing for the usa to do but the usa refuses.

minorities care far more about reliable electricity verus a few dozen torturers and mass murders getting beaten up.

[u/Creative_Hope_4690 → u/kaesura]

Humanitarian aid are exempt from sanction the state department has a history of giving billions of aid even under Assad.

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[u/[deleted]]

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[u/Creative_Hope_4690 → u/[deleted]]

Dude the state department and White House sees worse stuff like this all the time. This is normal in Middle East and areas similar to Syria. A quote that stuck with me from a former CIA “the world is an evil and barbaric place based on his daily briefings and we cannot save everyone”.

My cope to feel better after seeing some of the videos that terrorized me is they were people in the old regime who committed the same actions.

[u/memeintoshplus → u/[deleted]]

What action would you even propose in this circumstance? It's worthwhile to monitor since HTS and affiliated groups are groups that have an iffy relationship to the minority groups in Syria historically, to say the least.

That doesn't mean there's any reason or justification to actively intervene because how would we do so and for what benefit?

The only action I see the U.S. taking moving forward is one where we determine our non-military relationship with the new government on the basis of soft power, such as trade, humanitarian aid, etc. We also should continue to shore up the Kurds, regardless of how the new government turns out.

[u/sanity_rejecter]

https://preview.redd.it/00ffgbw5a2ae1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a273327ce564e745c9e2c12c46a7a87c2b9e2cd

called it before, calling it now, syria will just end up like saudi arabia or something

[u/kaesura → u/sanity_rejecter]

Foreign minister walked that back and they appointed a female central bank governor. More senior female appointment than anything in the Assad regime

Their diversity pick just ended up being an idiot

[u/chitowngirl12 → u/kaesura]

The DEI pick for women's minister turned out to be Syrian Phyllis Schlafly. But let's face it. It isn't like HTS knows any actual feminists.

[u/Creative_Hope_4690 → u/sanity_rejecter]

If Syria is like Saudi then that’s a huge W and improvement. We can only be so lucky.