NBC News Totally Obliterates Trans Ideology By Accident

[u/DarthBalls5041]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/nbc-news-totally-obliterates-trans-ideology-by-accident

[u/midnightnoonmidnight]

He’s taking an NBC article about people who believe they can change race and trying to apply it to gender. This isn’t a new tactic and it’s been disregarded many times for obvious reasons.

[u/DarthBalls5041 → u/midnightnoonmidnight]

What are the obvious reasons? Race and sex/gender are both completely biological.

[u/midnightnoonmidnight → u/DarthBalls5041]

Race and gender are social constructs with different characteristics and standards depending on what time period and culture they exist in. The implications of “becoming a different race” and being trans is comparing apples to oranges.

[u/DarthBalls5041 → u/midnightnoonmidnight]

You just said a bunch of words, but there is zero basis for them.

Gender roles and racial culture are social constructs.

But gender/sex (xx versus xy chromosomes as well as different reproductive systems and natural hormones) and race (the amount of melanin in our skin, among other things) are biological.

A white person saying they identify as black is no different than a man identifying as a woman. And there is no logical argument you can make to support your position.

[u/NohoTwoPointOh → u/DarthBalls5041]

But other than skin tone, hair form and a few cosmetic features, DNA shows no difference.

Race is a lazy person’s (or ignorant person’s) proxy for class and culture.

[u/DarthBalls5041 → u/NohoTwoPointOh]

But other than skin tone, hair form and a few cosmetic features, DNA shows no difference.

Absolutely true. There are medical conditions that affect different races differently too. You won’t see many dark skinned people with huntingtons disease nor will you see white people with sickle cell anemia either.

Race is a lazy person’s (or ignorant person’s) proxy for class and culture.

Yes.

[u/DarthBalls5041 → u/NohoTwoPointOh]

But other than skin tone, hair form and a few cosmetic features, DNA shows no difference.

Absolutely true. There are medical conditions that affect different races differently too. You won’t see many dark skinned people with huntingtons disease nor will you see white people with sickle cell anemia either.

Race is a lazy person’s (or ignorant person’s) proxy for class and culture.

Yes.

[u/DarthBalls5041 → u/NohoTwoPointOh]

But other than skin tone, hair form and a few cosmetic features, DNA shows no difference.

Absolutely true. There are medical conditions that affect different races differently too. You won’t see many dark skinned people with huntingtons disease nor will you see white people with sickle cell anemia either.

Funny enough, there are more differences between the DNA of a man and a woman than there are between different racial groups.

Race is a lazy person’s (or ignorant person’s) proxy for class and culture.

Yes.

[u/midnightnoonmidnight → u/DarthBalls5041]

Sorry to break it to you, but words are used to communicate ideas. So yeah, I used a bunch of words.

Words like “race” and “gender” are also just used to communicate ideas. The shared understanding of these ideas is a social construct that changed between cultures and over time.

Gender doesn’t directly map to sex which doesn’t directly map to biology. Race doesn’t directly map to a biological marker of skin color. You couldn’t even be specific in your own explanation because the concepts of gender and sex and race are not universal- even on a biological level.

What is the race of these twins?

Are Italians white?

Why do different cultures recognize gender differently?

[u/DarthBalls5041 → u/midnightnoonmidnight]

Sorry to break it to you, but words are used to communicate ideas. So yeah, I used a bunch of words.

Not when you’re speaking nonsense.

Words like “race” and “gender” are also just used to communicate ideas. The shared understanding of these ideas is a social construct that changed between cultures and over time.

There was no talk about gender fluidity until the 20th century, mostly starting with John Money in the 1950s, whose findings turned out to be fraudulent. And at least some of his patients accused him sexual abuse

Gender doesn’t directly map to sex which doesn’t directly map to biology.

There is no scientific evidence that this statement is true. And in fact there is overwhelming evidence of the opposite. Show me a study not funded by an lgbtq organization that says that. Women can smell/ hear better than men, and have more attention to detail than men. Women also respect authority more as children than do boys. It has to do with the way the brain is hardwired. I can point you to a book that describes all of the differences biologically between men and women, way beyond chromosomes and reproductive organs (which are profound differences as well by the way).

“Why Gender Matters” by Leonard Sax, MD, PhD

Why Gender Matters, Second Edition: What Parents and Teachers Need to Know About the Emerging Science of Sex Differences https://a.co/d/9yXpZvo

Race doesn’t directly map to a biological marker of skin color.

I used skin color as an example. I’m aware that skin color is not the only factor.

You couldn’t even be specific in your own explanation because the concepts of gender and sex and race are not universal- even on a biological level.

This is patently false. I think I was very specific and you are making an assertion upon which there is no scientific evidence.

What is the race of these twins?

I don’t know? Mixed?

Are Italians white?

Italians are a nationality, not a race. If a black person is born in Italy that person is racially black, and also Italian. I couldn’t identify as Italian either, since I don’t live in Italy nor was I born there.

Why do different cultures recognize gender differently?

Cultures recognize gender roles differently. But for the most part almost all of the worlds cultures recognize men as defenders/hunters and women as caretakers of children and home. Of course western cultures in the mid to late 20th century began to recognize that women can also fulfill roles in society more traditionally filled by men. And I agree with that assertion. I’m a traditional feminist (really more of a TERF)

However, where I disagree is denying reality. A man cannot become a woman and vice versa any more than a man can become an orange.

[u/ILOVEBOPIT → u/midnightnoonmidnight]

They are both physical constructs with social impacts. Social constructs would be gender roles and ethnicity. But being a man/woman or black/white is clearly a physical thing that we can see. We don’t just socially decide that someone is a certain race, we physically see and know what they are. There can be social variations there but the trait is primarily physical.

However, by your logic, if they’re both social constructs, why can one change and not the other?

Also, the NBC article points of problems with objectification and fetishization of other races which makes people want to transition their race. Why do we discount this as a reason why people want to transition their gender?

[u/midnightnoonmidnight → u/ILOVEBOPIT]

Please just take a second to think about what you’re saying. If we don’t socially decide someone’s race then why is there a debate about if Jewish people are white. Why did certain groups become white over time instead of being white to begin with? If you can physically see “what they are” then isn’t it weird that there’s a debate about these twins?

Explain what race the twins are and I’ll demonstrate how race is a different sort of social construct than gender in the US today.

[u/ILOVEBOPIT → u/midnightnoonmidnight]

There can be social variations there but the trait is primarily physical

Acting like it is only a social construct is idiotic. An alien could come to earth and see the difference between a Caucasian, a black, an Asian, and a middle easterner.

There’s an article about those twins because they’re an exception to the rule, smart guy. I could show you pictures of 5 billion people and you’d probably get the race correct on 99% of them just by looking at the photo.

[u/midnightnoonmidnight → u/ILOVEBOPIT]

You have a very specific idea of what “caucasian, black, asian, and middle eastern” means. You didn’t say indigenous or Pacific Islander or hispanic or Latino or south Asian or the many other categories other people might list. That’s a reflection of your specific beliefs influenced by the culture/society you live in. Your ideas are not universal. The idea of race isn’t universal

There is no universal consensus on what racial divisions actually exist. Ideas about race have changed over time in mainstream American culture. They have always been different in other cultures- some not recognizing race as a concept at all.

If you lined up every human on earth, there are so many visible variations that there’s no universal way categorize everyone. It’s like how ideas about color have changed over time and are different in different cultures. Our perception of things is based in the society in which we live.

The twins being “an exception to the rule” is just an exception to your rule. But to you, what race are they?

[u/ILOVEBOPIT → u/midnightnoonmidnight]

I easily could have said those things and I almost did, I think the point was clear without mentioning every example of races. Is it hard for you to understand when someone talks about dogs if they don’t mention every single breed of dog?

Race may not be completely universally but in the vast majority of cases it is. Again, if an alien can come to earth and separate earthlings into races with a high level of accuracy, which they could, it’s universal. You’re acting like nobody can see skin color lmao.

Your rule about twins is that they usually are a different race? What the fuck are you talking about? The rule is that people in the same family tend to look similar and be the same race. If you think that’s just “my” rule and it’s not yours, you are completely delusional about the world, which I believe you are, so I’m not surprised you hold these views to begin with.