Would you consider the Force Awakens the best movie in the sequel trilogy?

[u/Hot_Professional_728]

[u/Available_Story6774]

Yes. But it’s an extremely low bar.

[u/BD401 → u/Available_Story6774]

I’m conflicted on TFA because while it’s technically the best of the sequels in its own right, it also bears the blame for setting the whole trilogy on the wrong path.

The lazy retread of ANH, the lazy reset of the state of affairs back to empire versus rebels, the lazy reuse of a Death Star-like weapon, the shift to make Luke some loser hermit etc… all of that is TFA’s fault.

So it’s the best in isolation, but arguably could be seen as the worst since it sent the whole trilogy down the wrong path. Disney was so obsessed with playing it safe after the prequels that they basically just remade ANH rather than doing anything interesting.

[u/Rinbox → u/BD401]

Sums up exactly what I was going to say. It’s a very average remake of a movie we already have which is extremely unfortunate. The fact that this is the “best” movie of that trilogy is truly disappointing compared to what could have been

[u/okeefechris → u/Rinbox]

Just plug these 3 comments to the top and call it a day because exactly all of this.

[u/Zero_Cool-94 → u/okeefechris]

It took Filoni to put Luke in that hallway scene to get the taste out of our mouth. Too bad he didn’t get the original gig.

[u/su6oxone → u/Zero_Cool-94]

Great scene obviously but seeing what he did with the shows he did handle, I don't think I'd want him working on any movies.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_4435 → u/su6oxone]

Yeah, I had such hopes for Filoni fixing the story, but it turns out he's kinda overrated. He has the same tendency as everyone else in Disney to break the universe for the sake of reviving one of his original characters. Ahsoka should have died (stayed dead) long before her selfname show. And I genuinely liked Ahsoka in Clone Wars, so that opinion has nothing to do with any bias against her.

[u/Emotional-Tailor-649 → u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_4435]

Stayed dead? When did she die?

The problem seems to be the transitioning her from animated character to live-action present day timeline. Probably should have just made an animated Ahsoka series of what happens after Clone Wars. Not doing that but pushing the character to the current timeline was a questionable decision.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_4435 → u/Emotional-Tailor-649]

When she got trapped with Vader, appeared to be losing quite handily, and then didn't show up again until Ezra went back in time to pull her from that room through a portal. It's heavily implied that she died, even if we don't see it on-screen. Are there other possibilities? Sure, she could have beaten Vader and then decided to disappear to some tropical island since everyone thinks she's dead, but I don't think that's very plausible. In either case, she wouldn't have been a key player in future events... which made sense since she isn't in any of the original movies. But then Filoni had to use time travel to bring her back into the story.

[u/Emotional-Tailor-649 → u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_4435]

I thought there was an owl or something that flew away at the end of that episode to signify that she somehow had lived, we just didn’t know how yet.

Either way, I think an animated show centered on her that wraps up before the OG trilogy or better explains where she goes woulda been the way to go. Weird direction choice for the character.

[u/Stopikingonme → u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_4435]

In any visual medium if there isn’t a body they aren’t dead. It’s a massive trope. Ending a major character’s life with an offscreen and unconfirmed death just doesn’t happen in media.

[u/dragonborn071 → u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_4435]

As much as i like that episode of Rebels, if they were to kill her off, they'd need to have some sort of reaction scene from vader, as none of the other films address her as she was added in with CW, and it's a big deal for Vader to take her down, hell he still would think that happened given that she was taken out of existance. Rebel's had alot of good points, but also a few missed opportunities and i feel that was one of them

[u/Timmah73 → u/BD401]

It was very enjoyable at the time but has diminished greatly once TLJ and TRoS came out.

Undeniable copied plot points of ANH aside, it no longer can be defended for leaving so many mystery boxes on the table when they had no outline for a trilogy. You can't watch it any longer without seeing these plot points go by knowing "lol that went nowhere "

[u/Repulsive-Duty905 → u/Timmah73]

Still waiting on that story about the lightsaber, Maz..

[u/Timmah73 → u/Repulsive-Duty905]

Coming soon on Tales From Mazs Cantina cartoon on D+

[u/Weird_Fiches → u/Repulsive-Duty905]

Yeah, if J.J. Abrams is involved, I don't need the story, thanks.

[u/Azuras-Becky → u/Timmah73]

I was (or felt like I was) in a minority at the time TFA released. My friend took me to see it as a birthday present and after we left we got into an argument as the first words out of my mouth were "they just remade the original movie!" I didn't expect much of anything out of the subsequent movies because I couldn't unsee it.

[u/Hazzman → u/Timmah73]

It wasn't particularly enjoyable either. The constant response to criticism when it came out was "yeah but wait until you see what comes next, they are just establishing a foundation!"

We didn't need ESB or ROTJ to enjoy ANH. And had ESB and ROTJ been poor entries, ANH would've remained just as enjoyable, just as ground breaking. Just like many other series throughout film history where the sequels were less than stellar.

TFA, on its own, without the legacy of SW hanging over it would've probably been an OK but forgettable scifi movie... But the expectations around it set it up for failure, even worse JJ Abrams was, is and always will be a barely capable hack... wrangled by the strict environment of an expensive and preexisting IP, he is able to make something passably entertaining... But like Star Trek, they are never imbued with any respect for the audience or the IP. You can get away with this with ST because they were actively looking for some adventurous new direction for the franchise, but this was supposed to be a continuation of the SW saga.

It felt derivative, the characters were bizarre, cartoonish and one dimensional and it never capitalized on any of the potential that came from the old movies... It felt shallow.

[u/Rastarapha320 → u/Hazzman]

I think the worst thing about all this is that it's partly due to the 10years bad review of the prequels

They wanted to play it safe, but in the end we got no new political context and rehash of character archetypes

They screw-up everything trying to please those who didn't appreciate Jar Jar

[u/bayden_woodland → u/Rastarapha320]

I entirely agree...

The sad thing is, even though the prequels have... well... their issues, they expanded the Star Wars universe into new and interesting territory. We got so many cool things as a result of playing off of what the prequels set up.

What interesting things are there to build out of the sequels?

Umm, stuff you could've written as spin offs of the original trilogy but... sadder cause... idk the empire came back a second time I guess and death stars are even more destructive now...

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/BD401]

I think the Last Jedi is the best, because of all the reasons you stated. There's Luke with whatever flaws he has (set up by TFA as you correctly mention), there's a conversation with Yoda that quietly cuts right to the core of the themes going on when they mention failures and recovering, there's the incredible jump to hyperspace scene, there's the Casino town and those racing animals, Rey and Kylo communicate through a Force bond of some kind. Then there's the visually stunning battle on Crait with that red sand and salt, which somewhat evokes some of the Empire's Hoth battle, but is unique enough that it doesn't feel lazy, not to mention Luke's incredible Force projection of himself being the icing on the cake for me.

It ends with a message of hope only really rivaled by ANH, telling the audience that as long as some can resist, there is hope. Sure there might be some flaws in a few details, maybe it's messy here or there, but it's unique in many of the best ways and has one of the most impressive new Jedi "tricks" of any Star Wars film (Luke's Force Projection) that also doubles for a uniquely choreographed lightsaber duel, since we don't get especially good ones in these films compared to the prequel trilogy (as both Rey and Kylo are sloppy lightsaber fighters even if they have raw talent) - although Rey and Kylo's team-up fight is pretty good too, it just isn't a "pure lightsaber duel."

Yea I punish TFA more for its laziness and unoriginal story elements than TLJ for its unorthodoxy and messiness at times.

[u/dead5hane → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

TLJ is an inverse of ESB at times and a reflection at times. Canto Bight is an inverse of Bespin. TLJ ends on white planet fighting in the trenches and escaping through a bunker. Empire starts with that. There's a kiss that feels weird in the moment in TLJ where as in ESB it's weird after the fact. Idk I can go on.

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/dead5hane]

Yea I caught the Empire elements present in TLJ, but it's absolutely not a rehash of that story.

TFA is literally ANH with a new skin over it, from a too-old-to-be-trained-as-a-Jedi new hero orphaned on a desert planet to the new Death Star and everything inbetween. In fact the TLJ story is so good and the unique parts so refreshing I didn't even realize until right now that Luke's exile and Rey visiting him is a parallel to Luke meeting Yoda on Dagobah.

Rey, however, is trying to get Luke to rejoin the Resistance; Luke was seeking Yoda for his own training and leaves too soon to help his friends and meets Vader. Canto Bight might be a sparkling city full of wealth and Hubris but there is no betrayal of selling one of the characters off to the empire because of debts and politics, it's more of a side mission.

Crait's battle does resemble the Hoth battle, but Luke's Force Projection and Kylo Ren's rage are not only amazing and creative ideas that help separate the two, they also help display the character arches arcs of both of those characters which are also central themes to the trilogy - at least the parts that are coherent.

It's just nowhere near as much of a lazy rehash as TFA did with ANH. Based on all of this, I Imagine certain decisions about mirroring certain elements from the original trilogy was a decision made even higher up than JJ and Johnson, and Rian Johnson simply did way better in making that his own and creating a unique story out of it.

[u/juliuspepperwoodchi → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

TLJ has one of the single most powerful lines in all of main line Star Wars, and I will die on that hill:

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to"

Such a powerful and important message directly targeted at the Millenials who had grown up with the OT and Prequels about not just rehashing the same nostalgic crap over and over...and it went RIGHT over most folks' heads as they clamored for more fanservice and rehashed crap.

And then people wonder why Palpatine...somehow returned.

[u/RadiantHC → u/dead5hane]

Using that logic RotS is an inverse of RotJ. Starts with the rescue of a member of the team. The main Jedi goes to learn about the force. Anakin switches sides because of Palpatine and a loved one.

[u/G-Man025 → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

They reset it completely. All of Luke’s accomplishments were in vain in the OT. Emperor comes back with in 9. The Empire came back stronger than ever with the First Order… they made Han a deadbeat divorced dad, Leia doesn’t hug Chewie after Han dies but instead hugs Rey who she met 2 days ago, Finn and Rey going toe-to-toe with a trained Skywalker armed with the Force… the marketing and advertising before TFA released led everyone to believe Finn was going to to be our main Jedi guy only to be hit by the classic bait-n-switch tactic. The movie and the trilogy as a whole was shite. There were some good moments I did enjoy, like the hyperspace scene and Yoda in TLJ, but as a whole what a complete letdown.

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/G-Man025]

The overwhelming majority of these issues are the fault of JJ Abrams and whoever else contributed to those high-level decisions.

Then Rian Johnson tries to at least tell a unique and interesting story with that setup, and then JJ tries to undo all of that shit with ROS.

Honestly JJ can gfhs.

[u/Nonadventures → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

I think Bob Iger can be blamed for some of ROS's fumbles by trying to shoehorn the whole thing by his 2019 retirement, but the plot decisions were definitely JJ's. I remember reading something by Daisy that she actually had no idea what the final film would be until we did, because JJ would change the plot off the cuff and reshoot different scenes, so she never knew which would end up the official film.

[u/TeutonJon78 → u/Nonadventures]

JJ was literally editing the movie until the second they needed to send it to the theaters. And drama around the writing and what not.

Rian partially gets so much love from Lucasfilm because he worked hand in hand with the Story Group, worked on the script with Fisher, had no on set drama, and had the movie in the can 3 months early. It's like a studio's dream director for a connected IP. It's a shame it didn't land better with audiences, but it didn't have much of a chance with the start TFA created but didn't fully execute on.

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/TeutonJon78]

Thank you. Rian Johnson does not deserve the hate he gets, and JJ Abrams doesn't get the hate he deserves.

[u/mykidsthinkimcool → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

Nah there's enough hate for both of them

[u/poptophazard → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

Yep, this exactly. I judge JJ more harshly because he's the one that did the most damage to the OT with TFA trying to restore the ANH status quo. In TFA alone, you get:

• The OT Rebel Alliance victories rendered moot because the First Order destroys the New Republic in a single stroke and now the Empire/FO is back as a major power again
• Han and Leia are back to being the exact same characters they were in the OT, as any development they may have had (Han becoming selfless, Leia becoming a leader) sets them back to smuggler and general, and their relationship is back to being rocky
• Luke starting the next generation of Jedi being a failure, so the Jedi are back to being nigh extinct
• Bonus: Failing to reunite the original trio before killing off Han

I know people like to shit on how Rian wrote Luke in TLJ, but considering JJ handed him Luke pulling a Yoda and ignoring the plight of his friends (which was also against character compared to the OT mind you), he at least tried to spin it into a story about restoring his faith.

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/poptophazard]

Thank you thank you thank you. I won't ever rest easy as a Star Wars fan until more people understand this.

[u/juliuspepperwoodchi → u/poptophazard]

Failing to reunite the original trio before killing off Han

This one is SO bad...and also, talk about the most telegraphed main character death in history...the moment Han steps on that bridge, if you don't know he's about to die, have you been paying attention?

[u/22marks → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

As if JJ Abrams went off and just made a new Star Wars movie without oversight. I mean you acknowledge it yourself on high-level decisions. He also co-wrote it with the writer of Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Clearly, something was going on above and beyond them. Not to mention all the shows and issues with other films that JJ has nothing to do with.

I put the blame on not following an established story arc. All three writing teams should have agreed upon an overall narrative arc--and how it ends--before they filmed TFA. It's not JJ, unless it was his idea to throw out an arc for the next two stories. He's great at setups, like he did with Lost. Make a "pilot episode" and then others run with it.

[u/TeutonJon78 → u/22marks]

Unanswered mystery boxes is his shtick, and not what modern audiences want with everything fitting together nicely and explained in full detail.

His mystery boxes is most of the reason people complain about Lost. His weak world building skills are what people complain about with his Star Trek movies.

He's a great cinematographer and a great actors' director, but he's a terrible story teller and should be kept away from writing duties. He lets Rule of Cool outweigh plot logic.

And if you really want want a deep dive:

• https://youtu.be/ws85gYk1ypM?si=aYEVqTJNUKh8HPl3
• https://youtu.be/MbL_XWs05Sg?si=6Sh46UZ8Vs1v4-V9

[u/Destroyer4587 → u/TeutonJon78]

I binged Lost recently, it’s better than the Star Wars / Trek entries he’s worked on, but also there is a pattern in which you can tell he is willing to sacrifice investment and payoffs long term just to make dramatic intense short term bubble / contained scenes. It’s as though he comes up with some amazing scenes, can’t resist trying to slap them all together but cannot glue them all in a way that makes a long-term coherent plot narrative & tries to hastily tie it all up in the end with a cheap bow on top. To me it seems he takes a tried & successful beginning narrative, waffles through the middle, then attempts to fix it at the end but it doesn’t quite feel right / too much damage is done already from the middle sequences.

[u/DeathTheSoulReaper → u/22marks]

I felt pretty upset with TFA. Because here's Luke, just sitting on his thumbs, doing fuck all as everything he and the OG Rebels fought (and in some cases, died) for in order to restore peace to the Galaxy went to shit. Did Luke blow up the Death Star by giving up when the chips were down and everything seemed hopeless? No. Did he redeem his father by giving up? No.

Did he rebuild the Jedi Order by giving up? No. He never would have became the legendary hero he was by sticking his head in the sand and pretending everything is hunky dory. He faced impossible odds, and overcame every hurdle. He managed to take a self-serving cynic (Han Solo) and change the way he looked at things. But all that got thrown out the window.

[u/ReaperReader → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

TLJ felt very thematically incoherent to me. Characters like Yoda and Rose say things that sound like they're meant to be themes but nothing in the rest of the movie bears them out.

And sure the Force projection looks cool, but Luke's character wasn't about winning because he had the flashiest coolest Force powers, in the OT Luke won because he and Leia inspired people (Han, Lando, Vader) to be better. The climatic fight between Luke and Kylo lacked moral substance.

That said, TFA was a pretty big mess too.

[u/Crum-Boi → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

I very much agree. Take my upvote. It’s not much, but it’s all I can give.

[u/QouthTheCorvus → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

Yeah, I agree with this. I think TLJ made a lot of really annoying choices (subverting expectations just to subvert expectations is a really cringy habit that's popped up in Hollywood of late), but I think in terms of raw filmmaking, it's the most compelling. It has overall themes, character development, and most importantly (for a Star Wars movie), it has some really cool scenes.

TFA is a bit too bland to be the best. It's the least offensive, but it's so by-the-numbers that it's hard to find interest.

[u/waterontheknee → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

Exactly!

[u/thefoolsnightout → u/BD401]

Personally it sucks so bad and makes it even worse because we are never getting Harrison Ford or Carrier Fischer in a Star Wars film again, and Mark Hamil seems unlikely. Not to mention the massive miss of not putting Luke, Leia and Han together on screen again. Like what the absolute fuck?

The whole thing had so much potential and its just absolute fucking garbage. Like, I don't love the prequels cause there are a lot of flaws but time has been kind to them, especially with supporting content like The Clone Wars.

This shit? It's just trash and I pretend it doesn't even exist.

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/thefoolsnightout]

For me it goes TLJ >> TFA >> 50 feet of shit >> ROS. I could at least eventually come to terms with TFA and TLJ if ROS wasn't so appallingly atrocious. Bringing Palpatine back . . . Seriously JJ Abrams can go fuck himself. It's just an absolute dumpheap. I wish we could at least get a do-over on that one film, let Rian Johnson tell it, and give Rey and Kylo a proper arc so we can have something that resembles a story and not a used diaper.

[u/parker0400 → u/BD401]

The existance of the Resistance doesn't even make sense! THERE WAS A REPUBLIC! Why didn't the ACTUAL GOVERNMENT defend itself??

The first order should have been the rebel group if anything.

The sequel is so bad from every possible aspect that you cannot say any of them are "best" or even "least worst" they are all equally in the "should have been left on the cutting room floor" category.

Edit: forgot words

[u/Suisse_Chalet → u/BD401]

My thoughts exactly . New republic gone, Leia failed as a political, Luke failed as a Jedi, han failed as a father, bad guys one even though they were temporarily stopped, killed trillions of people making what happened in the OT trilogy worthless if it just got worse instead of better

[u/Destroyer4587 → u/BD401]

They had their chance with the big 3 & they fluffed it.

[u/Coop1534 → u/BD401]

Luke could 100% have been done well with that premise. It just wasn’t executed well at all.

[u/Fawqueue → u/BD401]

The lazy retread of ANH, the lazy reset of the state of affairs back to empire versus rebels, the lazy reuse of a Death Star-like weapon, the shift to make Luke some loser hermit etc… all of that is TFA’s fault.

I don't know that I agree with this sentiment. Newer fans might see it this way, but for decades, older fans had the EU as what was effectively the continuation of the story. In those stories, we had the New Republic battling with the Imperial Remnant, including Death Star-like super weapons. It's not dissimilar to the themes in the sequel trilogy, but it worked far better because those stories were at least entertaining and filled with interesting characters.

TFA suffers because TLJ took the trilogy into a dead end.

[u/santa9991 → u/Fawqueue]

Sure, but what we’ve really seen with the sequel setting is that the New Republic, the one our rebels fought to build, is just fairly incompetent and filled with imperials. They ignore the threat for 30 years and then get massacred, leaving us right back at rebels vs the empire, not the new republic vs imperial remnants

[u/Occasionally_Correct → u/BD401]

I think the trilogy could have gone anywhere from here. They needed to prove they could make a good Star Wars movie after all the prequels hate at their release. They got close enough. There were so many avenues open. They just chose the worst options. 

Before TLJ came out I was thinking they’d flip the script on the original trilogy. Have Luke teaching Rey, and her abandonment being too much for her. When she’s offered the choice to turn at the end of this movie she takes it.  New, unexpected, and interesting. 

[u/succubus-slayer → u/BD401]

Nah the blame should be on whoever didn’t think to plan out a trilogy story and only went with the one movie, which lead to the mess that followed.

[u/pgl0897 → u/BD401]

It’s a shit movie in context for all the reasons you state, up against two genuinely fucking awful movies with no redeeming qualities that would be better if they didn’t exist at all.

[u/CWinter85 → u/BD401]

There was a ton of backlash over this, and then Rian Johnson came in and threw it all in the trash. A different group yelled about it being too different and woke. Then Disney realized that nostalgia stops way more and made the third film into a camel that wrote checks.

[u/Farren246 → u/BD401]

TFA established Luke as a hermit who lost his Jedi school and shut himself off from the world, invented hyperspace tracking, made Leia and Han estranged from each other with a Sith child, and used hyperspace to bypass planetary shields. And it was the very best one. Dear God.

[u/mroosa → u/BD401]

Its funny, because I think u/Dargar32 gets it right in their comment below.

For my own take, I think The Last Jedi tried to move past the awkward ANH2 direction of TFA, but gets crapped on because #notmyluke fans were so outspoken, and I do not mean that in a combative way, nor do I look down on people who dislike TLJ. I'd argue it is objectively the best movie of the trilogy, but TFA was the safest (and thus most "liked" by the majority of fans) because despite being good/fun, it was just ANH2 and did nothing to further the franchise. Disney then over-corrected with episode IX and decided it had to be Sith vs Jedi again in the worst possible way.

[u/ReaperReader → u/mroosa]

Hmm, I think the issue with calling TLJ "the best movie of the trilogy" is that it only worked on some levels. Sure, lots of people loved TLJ's take on Luke, and I'll agree Mark Hamil acted the hell out of the roll, and lots of people loved its subversivions and themes and the visuals. And Adam Driver was great as Kylo Ren.

But the trilogy was meant to be a blockbuster, which means it's meant to work on multiple levels so as to attract a wide audience. Which means things like an intelligent plot, good world building, coherent themes that are borne out by the plot, etc. All of which TLJ probably could have had without having to give up on the things its admirers like.

Even Luke - those people who like TLJ's portrayal of Luke - would they really hate it if TLJ had had, say, a scene of Luke with Rey at the end but before he dies where he passes on some genuine wisdom of his own to her, not just something Yoda said, and she in turn indicates her respect of him?

[u/Honest-J → u/BD401]

Lazy is the best description. I would've preferred they gave the trilogy to Marvel's Favreau or Whedon or Brad Bird, who I think was tapped to work on one but got pulled away by Tomorrowland.

[u/hoof02 → u/BD401]

Disagree. Yes, it mirrored A New Hope. Not thrilled about that. But 8 and 9 could have gone in so many different directions based on what and wasn’t done in 7. I think it a great job of restarting Star Wars. I was thrilled walking out of theater after seeing it. Much more than seeing the prequels!

[u/KazaamFan → u/BD401]

This is 100% my take. It is a fine movie i guess, mostly because it copies a great movie, but it isnt nearly as good as a new hope. It also shits on our heros and their accomplishments from the OT. And it does very little new and fun. So i dont consider it good at all with what you said. It ruined everything in the canon and franchise. And all so disney could make a safe and cool $2B. It’s a lot, duh, but i think they actually lost future money with this bad move. The sequels were so bad that they haven’t had a new movie since 2019. If the sequels were a hit, and spun the series into new exciting places, they could be doing at least a big $1B+ movie release every year, like Marvel. And instead they just keep cancelling projects. Now the next movie is mandalorian and grogu. Go home disney, you suck at star wars. 

[u/ilolus → u/BD401]

TFA did a lot of recycling yes, and was awful at worldbuilding (a new Republic? Where?). However there was still thousands of ways to continue with interesting character arcs (TFA also did the PTSD stormtrooper, right? You know, Finn before he was reduced to shouting "Rey"). All they had to do was sitting together around a table and, you know, actually plan the whole damn thing so that each director doesn't try to actively destroy what the predecessor did.

[u/x720xHARDSCOPEx → u/BD401]

The Last Jedi was the movie that derailed the story. Force Awakens did an ok enough job setting up the trilogy, but TLJ essentially used and killed off all the plot threads and left very little to use for the final movie. Rise of Skywalker basically ignored Last Jedi like it never even happened. Rey is still training, "Snoke" never really died, and Kylo goes back to working with the big bad guy.

[u/eddieesks → u/BD401]

Also they had to shoehorn in a story about how the girl Jedi was the most powerful jedi ever, and turning Luke into some background character, after just having 6 movies building Luke to be the most powerful of all time. Also Kylo Ren sucked, his whole arc was stupid, Snoke was a non factor in anything, and the entire movie seemed to be written by someone who just skimmed the cliffs notes on Star Wars, and didn’t bother watching the movies. I mean, why rehash ANH, when they could have had Luke travelling around the galaxy rebuilding the Jedi council’s influence, and in the shadows, they could have had someone (maybe an immortal Darth Plageius) planting the seeds of a Sith revival. Luke senses something, but he’s not sure what, since to his knowledge the sith have been destroyed. The Shadow Sith could seek out and find a true evil apprentice, someone scary and powerful, and a true threat. Han, Leia and Chewie could be on coruscant running the show and searching around for what Luke says is a “disturbance he feels”. End movie.

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/eddieesks]

they had to shoehorn in a story about how the girl Jedi was the most powerful jedi ever,

I mean, in the canon, she is the granddaughter of the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. It's not insane to think she would be one of the strongest ever. She's also the primary protagonist of the new trilogy, do you think she should be obviously a weaker Jedi than the boys?

after just having 6 movies building Luke to be the most powerful of all time

I don't even think Luke was being written to be the most powerful of all time, just a Jedi with very high potential being the son of Anakin and the heir and last hope to rebuild the broken Jedi Order.

[u/Truecoat → u/Available_Story6774]

Yeah, that's like asking me which of my 3 dogs have the best poop.

[u/l30 → u/Truecoat]

"If you had to choose to eat one of these three pieces of dog shit, which one would it by and why?"

[u/d6punk → u/Available_Story6774]

JJ didn’t put the OG big three on screen together and then killed off Han so no one else could. TFA is the worst movie in the trilogy for that fact alone. TLJ made its own mistakes but it was set up for failure. RoS was 100% clown diaherrea.

[u/dormammucumboots → u/d6punk]

TLJ is one of those movies that's just good enough that a lot of the shit it's given is unfair, but bad enough that a lot of those complaints are still valid.

I'm glad everyone agrees RoS was shit though. It's one of those movies I've never seen someone defend.

[u/fireflash38 → u/dormammucumboots]

That's the price of art, and why you see mediocre shit shoveled e everywhere. Don't offend. Don't push. Dont take risks. 

TLJ has its faults, but it tries to go beyond the OT . TFA is so aggressively... Mid. Safe. Boring remake. It fails more because it didn't really try. 

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/fireflash38]

TFA is so aggressively... Mid. Safe. Boring remake. It fails more because it didn't really try. 

Yea it's even a little worse than safe because of how blatantly it follows a nearly perfect rehashing of ANH. But yes, you're right. I reserve a few valid critiques for TLJ, but overall it's a new and very good story that not only has its own unique elements, but manages to keep the soul of the Star Wars universe with the theme of keeping hope alive through small acts of resistance, making a difference wherever you can.

[u/YoungAdult_ → u/Raise_A_Thoth]

Man I love your response. I liked TLJ. It’s flawed but it’s my favorite of the sequel trilogy.

[u/poptophazard → u/fireflash38]

Bingo. I'll always view a film that swings big and has some misses more favorably compared to a film that aims low and settles for mediocrity. TLJ is my fav of the sequels, even though I acknowledge it's a flawed film and has several missteps. But it's the only one that tried to be something different.

[u/crooks4hire → u/Available_Story6774]

Unrelated…

Which of these piles of dog shit smells the best?

[u/Quwisian → u/Available_Story6774]

I laughed so hard, thanks for the comment.

[u/taney71 → u/Available_Story6774]

It’s passed and shit and horse shit

[u/Nicinus → u/Available_Story6774]

It’s by far the best, and putting on my flame suite, I think with time it will stand as one of the most memorable and enjoyable of them all. Nothing will ever touch ANH and ESB, but seen as a complete movie in pacing, cinematography and memorable events no one else holds a candle. There are certainly more memorable individual scenes in the others, but TFA is hard to beat on the whole, and now I’m not necessarily thinking of narrative decisions or the derivative nature of the killer base and New Order. The assignment was always a reboot, which I personally don’t think was a good mindset, but in that sense Abrams and Kazan did a fantastic job. Easy to forget now, but Star Wars was fading in the public eye with the onslaught of Marvel and super heroes and at the time people were very very excited.

[u/budstudly → u/Available_Story6774]

This is verbatim what I was about to comment 🤣

[u/Good_Spray4434 → u/Available_Story6774]

Yep the best of the worst

[u/c-papi → u/Available_Story6774]

Also literally a new hope

[u/LysanderBelmont → u/Available_Story6774]

Couldn’t have said it any better. That movie gave me a good feeling in the cinema.. not like „omg it’s such a good movie!“ More like, it was really nice to see the gang again

[u/Sarah-M-S → u/Available_Story6774]

It’s not the best but it doesn’t suck as hard as the rest

[u/Pavores → u/Available_Story6774]

Tallest mountain in Kansas

[u/The-Chartreuse-Moose → u/Available_Story6774]

Nail on the head. It's certainly the best. But that's not saying much at all.

[u/Barleyandjimes]

I think the best parts of The Last Jedi are better than the best parts of The Force Awakens but overall I’m more fond of The Force Awakens. But that is largely due to nostalgia and the lows of The Last Jedi and the entirety of TROS being that bad. 

This is a complicated answer

“A good question for another time” 

🫠

[u/Fossekall → u/Barleyandjimes]

I think this is the best take I've seen on The Last Jedi. The peaks are high, but it still averages low for me. The Force Awakens wins amongst the sequels, though it still rates lower than any of the 6 previous

[u/IndyMLVC]

There's such joy when I think of TFA. That was an incredible time in life as well as a Star Wars fan, for so many reasons. I can't watch it without crying, again, for many reasons.

Things have certainly taken a turn since then - in the world and in Star Wars.

[u/HoagieDoozer → u/IndyMLVC]

The trailers for TFA got me so hyped. They were so good and I loved watching peoples reactions to them on YouTube for some reason. Then the rest of the trilogy happened ☹️

[u/IndyMLVC → u/HoagieDoozer]

I saw TFA 3 times opening weekend. I think I ended up going 6 times? Maybe more.

Then TLJ happened and my love of Star Wars pretty much died.

[u/GasPsychological5997 → u/IndyMLVC]

That’s so mind boggling to me, cause I liked TFA awakened, I Really liked Last Jedi, but Rise of Skywalker is one of the worst movies I’ve seen, a movie that feels insulting to me.

[u/IndyMLVC → u/GasPsychological5997]

That's how I feel about TLJ. Rise did the best it could with the absolute shit it was left with.

[u/aprentize → u/IndyMLVC]

Say what you will about The Last Jedi, but I will never buy the excuse that Rise of Skywalker ended up the way it is because it was the best that could be done. Literally almost anything else would have been better regardless of the Last Jedi.

[u/TrueNorth2881 → u/aprentize]

"somehow palpatine returned" with zero explanation, zero buildup, and zero context is probably the dumbest line and plot element of any movie I've ever seen

[u/ReaperReader → u/aprentize]

At the end of TLJ, there are only two named villains left alive, one of whom is now a laughing stock that neither Rey nor Finn have even met on-screen, and the other of whom is Han and Leia's only child and also Rey's love interest.

Basically TLJ doomed any sequel to be written in a state of panic.

[u/MrFiendish → u/IndyMLVC]

Yeah…but the move tricks you into thinking it’s fun…that’s what’s so insidious about it. It hits all the right marks until you realize that it’s just aNH repackaged and not designed to entertain you, but to manipulate your nostalgia.

[u/rBilbo → u/MrFiendish]

Tricks you? Haha. Come on, it was fun. If Luke started training Rey in the ways of the Force as people expected, would that have changed people's opinion on TFA? Somehow I think people would not have the same criticisms the TFA.

[u/Yetimang → u/MrFiendish]

the move tricks you into thinking it’s fun

This is more insane than "somehow Palpatine returned".

"You stupid plebs! Don't you see you're just being fooled into having a good time!"

[u/HUNGWHITEBOI25]

Oh it definitely was, however i think a lot of the reasons i liked it so much (and still do) was due to all potential it had.

-Fynn was awesome

-Poe was a badass (tbf though: he was a badass in all the movies)

-Rey was interesting and her calling the lightsaber to her was AMAZING

-Kylo was amazing and a complete badass

[u/Tartar-Sauce- → u/HUNGWHITEBOI25]

I remember thinking Captain Phasma was going to be a badass and…well we know what happened.

[u/tenderjuicy1294 → u/HUNGWHITEBOI25]

I still love that scene of Kylo holding the laser bolt in the air before releasing it at the end of the interrogation at the start. Also the crackle of his lightsaber and its design I was a huge fan of

[u/LaserCondiment → u/tenderjuicy1294]

I remember the audience being mind blown by Kylo freezing that laser bolt! Such a great villain.

[u/Dargar32]

The Last Jedi is way better in my opinion. Most of the things I dislike about the sequel trilogy are a result of what’s established in the force awakens, it also doesn’t help that TFA is a lazy copy paste of A new hope plot. The last Jedi at least try to make something interesting with what was established and tried to take the story on a better and more original direction.

[u/JohnnyRighteous → u/Dargar32]

The Last Jedi was the only movie trying to make something out of nothing. 100% agree with you.

[u/Kolby_Jack33 → u/JohnnyRighteous]

JJ looked at TFA and thought "how can I make this Star Wars?"

Rian looked at TLJ and thought "how can I make this interesting?"

The second question will always piss more people off but that's what art is. TLJ is the only sequel I would call a work of art, for better or worse. The other two are just products.

[u/Softpretzelsandrose → u/Kolby_Jack33]

In my opinion though, Star Wars is the most franchisiest franchise to ever franchise. It was always bound to be a trilogy. If you’re going to have the number two spot in a trilogy you make a Star Wars movie.

If you want to make art unbounded by the movies before and after it Star Wars is like the worst possible place to do that.

That is absolutely not a bad thing, nor should it reflect on Johnson as a director, he is incredible. It was just misplaced/mistimed talent

(All of this to say Disney green lighting a trilogy without a coherent plan is the real problem here, not any single movies fault)

[u/Kolby_Jack33 → u/Softpretzelsandrose]

I really don't think the lack of a plan was the root of the problem. It was a lack of commitment to the plan they always had, which was one film per director.

TLJ was a perfectly fine follow up for TFA. Showing how rapidly things can change on both sides in the immediate aftermath of the Death Star 3 blowing up was fine. Nothing contradicted what came before. Even if some things took unexpected turns, they weren't u-turns.

Not so for TRoS. The stupid backlash prompted the stupid corporation to panic stupidly and literally reverse course on everything TLJ. And surprise, surprise, the end result sucked. Chickening out of your story, no matter how poorly received the last part was, never works. It only highlights the lack of creativity and adaptability you have.

You cannot "fix" fiction. You can course correct and try harder next time, even retcon a thing or two, but you cannot simply hit the undo button and make people forget where it was going before. That's just not how fiction works.

So people can gripe about the lack of a planned story path all they want but there are plenty of great series that had no such structure going in. What matters is consistency and follow-through. Planning will only take you so far.

[u/80aichdee → u/Kolby_Jack33]

Seriously, the leaked script even shows the original plan was most likely better, assuming it was a draft and not a shooting script but even then it's debatable

[u/ptriz → u/Kolby_Jack33]

If something is done with conviction and purpose, the audience can at least appreciate something it as a whole, or see the love that was put in.

[u/Budget-Attorney → u/Kolby_Jack33]

This is exactly it.

[u/Rapscallious1 → u/Kolby_Jack33]

TLJ is a good standalone movie, it is a bad Star Wars movie though. Making something Star Wars should have been part of the assignment even if maybe it limits some of your creative choices. This wasn’t an indie flick, it was the 2nd movie in a trilogy of a series with 7 other movies. Maybe it’s more their fault for choosing him but there will always be so many weird choices in that movie that create a lot of problems.

[u/Tesdthrowaway37 → u/Kolby_Jack33]

“How can I make this interesting?”

lol the canto bight plotline is arguably the most boring part of all the movies 

[u/tehspiekguy → u/Dargar32]

I agree and I've had this argument with several fellow fans, TLJ was a bold move that moved the series away from stagnant predictability but it required the third movie to stick the landing. Instead of recognizing this and going all-in, Disney tried to course correct based on fan confusion and frustration with the loose threads and rug-pulls without any consideration of long-term storytelling and brand image. Rian Johnson set the stage for episode IX to redefine the series. Instead, script by committee gave us "Somehow, Palpatine returned."

[u/Rapscallious1 → u/tehspiekguy]

There’s a difference between new direction and entirely new direction. Why would you ever move a billions of dollars established franchise you just bought in an entirely new direction in only your 2nd big venture for it?

[u/Turbulent_Crow7164 → u/Dargar32]

It’s conflicting for me. TFA is literally a copy and paste of ANH and gives us nothing new, but it was fairly well executed. On the other hand, at least TLJ tried something new, but it also sucked at doing it. lol.

[u/OakLegs → u/Turbulent_Crow7164]

I don't think TLJ is above criticism but I felt it did a lot of things pretty well. Certainly much better than literally anything TRoS did

[u/LifeAcanthopterygii6 → u/OakLegs]

There are two types of sequel haters. One of them says TFA started it the trilogy okey, but then TLJ undid everything it did, and thus TLJ is not good. Others say TFA is just a lazy and boring copy paste of ANH, and at least TLJ did something original and cool. Both of them agree that TRoS is the biggest dumpster fire Star Wars ever had.

[u/80aichdee → u/LifeAcanthopterygii6]

My best friend didn't like TLJ but I do and somehow likes tros. We don't talk about Star Wars much these days

[u/NitroBlast4563 → u/80aichdee]

I don’t like The Force Awakens because it does nothing differently yet I enjoyed all the other movies.

[u/l3w1s1234 → u/Turbulent_Crow7164]

It hit the same beats but I think it's too simple to say it was a straight copy and paste. It did give us a whole new cast of characters to get invested in and introduced them all really well. Plus they were all different enough that you could do something cool with them in following movies.

TLJ did cool stuff with Rey and Kylo, just rest of the cast completely misused. Then TRoS it just went a bit silly. I think really only Kylo had a complete arc that was worth watching in the ST.

[u/IndyMLVC → u/Turbulent_Crow7164]

People need to look up the definition of "literally."

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/Turbulent_Crow7164]

but it also sucked at doing it.

I really don't think it sucked at all. A few details in some scenes I will give you for sure. Leia's space traversal is controversial, and the communication between Poe and Holdo I believe is an example of pretty bad and cringy writing, but apart from those two thing, it's really good. Crait's battle was visually stunning even before Luke's Force Projection - one of my favorite new and unique Jedi powers - and it feels refreshingly unique even if it evokes a bit of the Hoth battle from Empire; Yoda and Luke's tall about learning from mistakes is very good and a key theme of Star Wars; the jump to hyperspace to destroy Snoke'a flagship was stunning and inspired; and Rey and Kylo do some fun stuff.

Honestly the only other thing I'll critique is that they don't seem to want to let side characters be side characters, they try to develop and give too mamy scenes to too many characters and it just gets busy and long at times, but that is also setup by TFA, so I cut Rian Johnson a little slack there, too.

[u/Malarkey44 → u/Dargar32]

Very much agree with this. There are several things in TLJ that I do not like (casual slow space chase, casino side quest, carpet bombing capital ships being a viable strategy, and a few other bits). But TFA is even more terrible with its poor copying of the OT. It tried to use similar story beats and themes, but failed to even execute them half way decently. And it started the downturn away from any logic (First Order and their bigger death star, insta-download of force abilities amd lightsaber skills, hyperspace on planets, revert of every OT character to their starting point, etc. )

[u/darkgamer500 → u/Dargar32]

Remember that the Phantom menace isn’t the best movie by any stretch, but it set in motion a whole new world for us to explore which has resulted in a galaxy with a whole different set of circumstances than the Imperial era. It opened the way for imagination, for shows, movies, books, etc to explore this complex galaxy. Notice the sequel trilogy has nothing because it sets up the same circumstances as the OT era. There’s no story that can be told in the sequel era that can’t already be done in the OT era and wouldn’t have a more broad appeal due to it hitting more age groups.

I appreciate how TLJ tried to go down a different route. Open the possibility to Grey Jedi, finding the balance between light and dark. Breaking away from legacies, from an evil emperor in a chair. TLJ failed in execution in ways, but so did the prequels in many aspects. But the bigger failing is to limit imagination which TFA and TROS did by sticking to a formula.

[u/JediTrainer42 → u/Dargar32]

I absolutely love TLJ but I think TFA was the perfect return of Star Wars. It was the first SW film since the prequel trilogy and it definitely felt like we were back to what SW should look and feel like.

TLJ is brilliant. No notes.

TROS is a mess. It could have been a great film if they scrapped the Palpatine arc completely and really committed to Kylo being an unredeemable villain. TLJ sets up Kylo to fall into this roll perfectly and JJ just didn’t get it.

Part of the problem is that 9 was envisioned to rely heavily on Leia’s arc and that was impossible after Carrie died. It was kind of doomed from the start. Instead, they tried to throw the kitchen sink at the thing in hopes that something would stick but it all came off as messy and ill conceived.

[u/DeuceWallaces → u/Dargar32]

There’s a reason it’s critically acclaimed. It’s by far the best of all the sequels and prequels

[u/PlasticCrac]

the least shit

[u/TingusPingus_6969]

there is no best, just choosing between shit, shart and liquid shart

[u/FantasyMaster759 → u/TingusPingus_6969]

TFA felt like a solid legacy sequel when it came out, but what came after has diminished that opinion, particularly since the ending doesn't really feel like a complete story where you can ignore the dogshit that was to come.

[u/Hot_Professional_728]

It wasn't perfect, but it was enjoyable and I had so much hope for the rest of the trilogy.

[u/Alarming_Ad1746 → u/Hot_Professional_728]

An Old Hope

[u/Ch4p3l]

Bit of a weird take here but honestly for me it’s the worst. Or at least the one I’m most mad about to this day.  While the rise of Skywalker is irredeemably bad, that’s mostly a result of the mess its predecessors made and I admittedly stopped caring about the trilogy at that point. The last Jedi at least is an interesting movie and while I really don’t like it, I can respect it for what it is and tried to be. But the force awakens is just lazy and boring and just not good.

[u/Rumble45 → u/Ch4p3l]

I generally agree with you. I appreciate that last Jedi attempted to do something different. It's just that what it attempted to do, in particular the destruction of Luke's character was a really awful idea.

But what it go right was it finally broke away from 'chosen ones', to be someone important you had to be a kid of someone important, the force is more than stale doctrines, etc. then the next movie completely undid all the good things from last Jedi, and did so with malice at that.

[u/Darth-Bag-Holder]

Absolutely. One of my favorites.

[u/van_b_boy]

The Last Jedi is the best of the sequels and I will die on that hill.

[u/BirdsAreFake00 → u/van_b_boy]

Yeah, TFA, while it looks pretty and I generally like the new characters, was waaaaaaaaaay too similar to ANH. Standard JJ Abrams ripoff special. I would have loved if Rian Johnson did all three movies. You can tell he's more creative than JJ, and I think if he was allowed to control the story for all three movies, they would have been much better.

[u/benjimima → u/van_b_boy]

It’s the one one of the three that tried something different and I respect that. It’s. It perfect by any stretch, but at least it had ambition. Listening to an interview with Rian Johnson where he explained what he was going for it terms of getting away from this small family of force users was refreshing, but then JJ spoilt all of it with, arguably, the worst instalment of all.

[u/_Smashbrother_ → u/van_b_boy]

Same. It just did things so differently and I liked where Luke's character went.

[u/Burdiac → u/_Smashbrother_]

I liked the nihilistic turn “burn the Jedi and Sith down” that Kylo REN had.

And frankly considering that TFA was just all sizzle no steak and handed off with no concept on how the story should continue. I enjoyed TLJ atleast trying to bring something different.

ROS should have tried to continue the themes of Last Jedi and not spend most of the movie trying to undo it.

[u/sdonnervt → u/_Smashbrother_]

Luke, the most enlightened Jedi in galaxy history: The Light and the Dark Sides exist in harmony. You can't have light without the dark.

Ep. 9: Sorry for all that philosophical stuff. Here's some saccharine moments between characters either we butchered or you don't care about and more space explosions! BRRR

[u/_Smashbrother_ → u/sdonnervt]

Huh? Luke went full dark side in the old EU stuff and it was damn interesting. Loved him and Mara Jade. Made his redemption fucking awesome. So I'm totally fine that the sequels didn't make Luke some Superman trope character. Those are boring

[u/sdonnervt → u/_Smashbrother_]

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. He wasn't the Uber-LightSide Jedi that you'd think he'd be based on RotJ. He was a nuanced, introspective character who learned to appreciate the value of the Dark Side in nature. Then Ep. 9 squatted over it and took a big ol' deuce over everything that required more than 12 brain cells to follow.

[u/Hipi07 → u/van_b_boy]

Although it has plenty of issues, something they all do, it was definitely the more refreshing of the trilogy with more unexpected things happening rather than complete and utter rehashes

[u/Raise_A_Thoth → u/Hipi07]

Exactly, and most of the issues were things TFA forced it to deal with, like too many characters, putting the Resistance right back to a state like they were in during the original trilogy as Empire vs Rebels, and Luke being a failed self-exiled hermit.

[u/raktoe → u/van_b_boy]

I really like TLJ, and I'll die on that hill.

[u/fperrine → u/van_b_boy]

Agreed. And I think this take will age better with time.

[u/InternetDad → u/van_b_boy]

I like TFA more overall but I applaud TLJ for trying to actually innovate after TFA played it so safe. Plus it gave us some of the best cinematography of the sequels.

[u/spelltype]

Yes but it’s like that Mario party Luigi gif

[u/jicerswine]

Last Jedi would definitely be my pick. Force Awakens is straight up amazing for the first hour or so but most of the Starkiller stuff is fairly weak. Still a good movie overall but Last Jedi blew me away, especially on opening night in a packed house

[u/squish042 → u/jicerswine]

I don’t know if it’s because of the sour taste from TFA. I tried going into TLJ open minded, but as soon as Luke comically threw the lightsaber over his shoulder after the swelling buildup of the ending in TFA, it took me out of the movie and I could never get back into it. I remember the reaction in the theater, some giggles, some guffaws followed by, “wut?” It want all bad, there’s some decent moments in the movie, but I just couldn’t get emotionally connected to the story at all.

[u/proserpinax → u/jicerswine]

Seeing it in a full theater opening night was incredible, I was so surprised so many people were negative because my theater had the best time together.

[u/Sports101GAMING]

Yes it wasn't perfect but it wasn't bad. As somone whos not a fan of the sequel, I still think the force awakens was a ok show, and it set up the story for better things then what we got.

[u/Great_Kiwi_93]

Best yes.

But my personal favourite is the Rise of Skywalker, I just have more fun with it

[u/cyborgremedy]

Rise of Skywalker is both the best and worst because it's the only sequel trilogy movie where they make any decisions instead of treading water. The other tow movies take place in the span of like a day and basically no characters grow or change and nothing happens plotwise.

[u/Consistent-Cheetah61]

100%, it's a great movie, just doesn't fit much into the star wars timeline, however as a standalone it's amazing

[u/gashufferdude]

Yes, because it has potential storylines instead of squandered potential.

Turncoat stormtrooper? Jedi who doesn’t know it?

[u/davect01]

Ya.

Of course it suffers from "Another planet killer" to destroy but overall it was a great start

[u/acerak36]

Sort of. Rogue one isn't part of the sequels but I think it's the best Disney star wars film. Second is force awakens, but I still prefer any of the prequel movies over it.

[u/quantaeterna]

The Last Jedi is, for me.

[u/laserbrained]

Nah. Last Jedi for me, and it’s not particularly close. Love me some Force Awakens though.

[u/sdonnervt → u/laserbrained]

TLJ is unironically my favorite Star Wars movie after Rogue One. Fight me, everybody.

[u/Wendorfian → u/sdonnervt]

I'm tired of fighting lol. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I just wish I had liked it too 😆

[u/peegteeg → u/sdonnervt]

ESB above those two, but I agree.

I think that over time people will grow more fond of TLJ.

[u/Sternojourno]

Yes, it was fantastic, number 4 on my all-time SW movies list.

[u/Eastern_Dress_3574]

Yeah. I love this movie

[u/-Roger-Sterling- → u/Eastern_Dress_3574]

Easy to get lost deep in the weeds of the Star Wars fanbase … but this is the take IMO.

Forget the nitpickers … who all hated “Revenge of the Sith” on this day 10 years ago btw …

This film was loved on release and is still loved by a wide portion of filmgoers now.

Top 3 all time for me.

The movie soars right out of the gate. The first 45 minutes are flawless. It has the best acting of any Star Wars film. Introduces two great characters, with 10/10 performances from Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver.

And while it borrows from beats a little too heavily (a flaw that Phantom Menace & Return of the Jedi share) … it does a lot new.

• It was the most character-based Star Wars film. Prequels glossed over subtle character study to this big world of CGI. This felt so intimate.

• You identify with Adam Driver’s performance. You identify with Daisy Ridley’s performance. I wouldn’t say this about some other Star Wars films that are more pew-pew-pew.

• It was the best cinematography in a Star Wars film.

• It starts showing us a battle from the POV of a Stormtrooper.

• It humanizes so much of Star Wars … citizens, stormtroopers, dessert dwellers, Jedi, Han Solo … none of them had been so real and vulnerable until this film and its successors.

• It evolves the character of Han Solo in a way that’s just masterful. Regardless of his occupation at the time, the person had evolved and been through a lot. Easily Ford’s best performance as Solo, right there with Empire. Easily.

• It took real human themes and brought them into Star Wars in a gritty manner. Space fascism was brutal. Everything in OT/PT was cartoonish. The opening battle where they round up civilians and slaughter them is more brutal than any battle we saw in the previous trilogies.

I get there are some flaws. Every film other than Empire has flaws.

I get that it borrowed some broad strokes. They didn’t need the Starkiller base run. But TPM didn’t “need” the Trade Federation mini-death star either. And honestly ROTJ didn’t “need” the Death Star II.

Doesn’t take away from the emotion and performances of those films, at least to me.

It’s Top 3 for me behind only Empire and the OG.

[u/shacolwal]

Without a shadow of a doubt

[u/Unapietra777]

Yes, but that's a really low bar

[u/theregularpeter]

No. The Last Jedi is

[u/rezzy333]

Yea, Force Awakens while not amazing is still miles and miles better than the next two.

[u/FantasyMaster759 → u/rezzy333]

1 million times this! The first two prequels look godly compared to what followed TFA.

[u/MPD1978]

Yes, but the bar is low for this qualification.

[u/Markus2822]

Nope TLJ is by a landslide. TLJ somehow did the impossible and turned luke from one of the most basic I do good because it’s good characters to an actual complex character with flaws that aren’t whining about power converters or just glossing over his families death. I know I’m gonna get shit on a lot for this because people grew up with the original trilogy (I did too, not when it was releasing but I grew up watching it) and every single movie is full of a ton of massive glaring flaws

[u/Akstuntmanmike]

I love The Force Awakens for nostalgia reasons, but I honestly feel that The Last Jedi is a better movie.

[u/MaterialPace8831]

No. The Last Jedi is a better film and one of the best in the entire series. That said, it's a fun movie that I like to rewatch.

[u/Samaritan_Pr1me]

I like it the best of the three. I can see all the problems with it, don’t get me wrong. That said, it was the announcement that Episode VII was coming that finally got me into Star Wars. I am a bit soft towards TFA for that reason.

[u/goldendreamseeker]

It’s the “easiest” to watch, but the over-reliance on nostalgia and mystery boxes leaves a lot to be desired.

[u/Mr_Bell_Man]

Yes easily. I think TFA is underrated in general.

TLJ has its fair share of glaring issues. And RoS speaks for itself.

[u/LegalSTUD]

Yes. BUT that trilogy is the biggest disappointment in film history

[u/xFushNChupsx]

Without a question. In fact I'd go as far to say it was the only good one, purely because its competition is so poor.

I loved it. Saw it maybe 4+ times in cinema and absolutely adored the direction it was going. When TLJ came out I was thrilled and so disappointed.

TFA was a gem that they threw away.

[u/Tacitus86]

It had potential. The first one set up a possible decent trilogy. The 2nd one basically shit all over that trying to be it's own thing and screw up as much Canon as possible. Then the 3rd tried its best to mop up the mess, poorly.

[u/TNTBOY479]

On the account of being the least bad yes

[u/TikaOriginal]

Wouldn't say the best, I'd word it as 'least shit'

[u/Echostation3T8]

It’s the least offensive.

[u/omgitsbees]

Yes, but not by much, it's still not a good movie by any stretch. It just wins out because the next two are so horrible.

[u/Hammerslamman33]

Yes.

[u/SpaceDave83]

It’s definitely the least bad of the three. I left that movie not happy about Rey looking like a Mary Sue, but it did seem to do some decent table setting for what could have been a really good story arc.

[u/Chance_X74]

It's the only movie in the sequel trilogy. The other two are just a series of events that happen, driven by fetch quests (we need to go here to get this so we can go there and get that), where no scene really has any lasting impact on any other scene, only for Palpatine to somehow return, completely nullifying the first six films.

[u/YoungAdult_]

Extremely unpopular take but I prefer TLJ. Flawed of course and I wish if included more things like force sensitive Finn and the Knights of Ren, but I liked the boldness of the direction it was going and luke’s realization/final sacrifice. Plus, the red guard fight scene is the best in the whole trilogy.

[u/SqueezeAndRun]

I think The Force Awakens would be remembered significantly more positively if the sequel trilogy turned out well. At the time it got very positive reviews and re-launched the Star Wars hype train.  Sure it was safe and somewhat unoriginal, but it was rebooting a series that arguably didn’t have a good movie since 1983. I think it effectively laid the groundwork for the trilogy, but the following movies went off the rails. 

[u/YetiPwr]

100%

Was it a little silly? Yes (I mean who straps a cannon to a planet and then drives the planet around sucking up suns. And if you can suck up a sun why do you need a cannon?)

Was it pretty derivative from the OT? Also yes (but not in a bad way.)

But jeez…. Han and Chewbacca are freaking hilarious (“oh YOU’RE cold?”)

Rey is fun. Finn (who then end up wasting as a character in the trilogy) is new and interesting.

The reveal of the Millennium Falcon early on got thunderous applause in my theatre.

The one long shot of Poe during the Maz/Takodana sequence of his X-wing just wreaking havoc on the First Order ships… super cool.

I mean it definitely wasn’t a perfect movie but I enjoyed the heck out of myself watching it, which I can’t say about 8 or 9.

[u/Rich-Extreme-3956]

Killed han off :(

[u/martymcfly22]

Me personally, I like the Force Awakens. I find it to be more enjoyable than rogue one and every other SW movie besides the original trilogy. Don’t @ me space nerds.

[u/HCMattDempsey]

It's The Last Jedi and it's not even close tbh

[u/CrazyCanuckUncleBuck]

Like both trilogies before it, I prefer the 2nd movie

[u/United_Ad7799]

Not really. However it is my all time favorite movie

[u/SuperDiscoBacon]

The Last Jedi is 100% the best one because it puts being a good movie ahead of just being more Star Wars. Which makes it the most Star Wars.

The Force Awakens is great. It's so much fun. But it's very safe.

The Rise of Skywalker is a bad film made by committee, bad storytelling, and bad Star Wars.

[u/Baldur9750]

TFA is just a reskin of ANH. Good film, bad sequel.

TLJ has some interesting ideas, and poor execution in some cases. It tries to separate itself from TFA and not be ESB2. Overall I liked it the best out of the three.

ROS Is infuriating and a bad, mediocre generic sci fi hodgepodge of garbage thrown together for fanservice and inadequate writing.

Can you guess which wasn't my favourite? =)

[u/Griffdude13]

Last Jedi is a better film, and I’ll die on that hill.

[u/Golem30]

Yeah it's marginally better than the Last Jedi as a whole, both are good movies, both are much, much better than any prequel

[u/Jurgepoo]

For all its faults, I prefer TLJ. It had some interesting ideas and was trying to push boundaries for the franchise, even if the execution was severely lacking in places. It had some of the lowest lows of the movies, but also some of the highest highs in my opinion.

TFA isn't particularly bad on its own. But I'd say it's the safest of all the movies, banking on pure nostalgia, doing almost nothing new, and setting a pretty weak story foundation for the trilogy. I understand why Disney/Abrams went that route with it at the time, because there was still a sour taste in a lot of fans' mouths from the prequel era and they wanted to remind people of the OT. So what better way to evoke the OT than to basically just do it again but with new actors and a bigger budget? But I still think it ended up working against them in the long run. So while I don't hate it, I think it can be blamed for a lot of issues with the trilogy as a whole.