I think the best parts of The Last Jedi are better than the best parts of The Force Awakens but overall I’m more fond of The Force Awakens. But that is largely due to nostalgia and the lows of The Last Jedi and the entirety of TROS being that bad.
I think this is the best take I've seen on The Last Jedi. The peaks are high, but it still averages low for me. The Force Awakens wins amongst the sequels, though it still rates lower than any of the 6 previous
AotC holds a really special place in my heart because of when I watched it, I think I am unable to look at anything from it without an extreme bias and deep nostalgia, so it's difficult for me to say, but I really do love that one in its own way. Jango was my favourite character from the prequels and I got so insanely hyped every time he was on-screen. There's also the fight scene in the rain which is one of my favourite things. I would also always get chills whenever Anakin's anger came through
I love Force Awakens too. I had a really romantized view of what the sequels would be and regardless of whether or not it was a good movie, it was a NEW Star Wars movie, that alone was enough for me to find enjoyment in it (same with everything that has come after, even when I don't think something lives up to what I want from Star Wars, it's still Star Wars)
Seeing Luke, my childhood hero on screen made me cry at the cinema. He has meant so much to me and seeing him again was just amazing
Never let anyone tell you your nostalgic love for a movie is wrong
That's all good and all but I don't really care about the reasoning.
It's still a bat shit insane take. I mean, art is subjective, go for it and like what you like, but this is probably as hot of a take as you can have in my opinion.
Not really. In my experience, the majority of Star Wars fans from the ages of 10-20 would agree with that assessment. Granted, that's a small framework, but I'd say by no means is this a hot take. In fact, I'd say almost all Star Wars fans I know of disregard the sequels as either weird or a total disgrace. Even my 10 year old sister feels that way. But Anakin is still one of her favorite characters, and she loves the Geonosis fight in AotC.
I would disagree with this. That is extremely anecdotal, and to try and present that as some sort of fact is very misleading and disingenuous. This sort of revisionist history about the Prequels is always very concerning to see.
All I have is also anecdotal but at least I will admit it. Throughout my friend group and people who I regularly speak with (Gen Z, Millennials, and Boomers), the Prequels are pretty much unanimously and easily the worst films. That's obviously also apparent in the review scores.
Millennials like myself may be a bit more forgiving. The Prequels may be seen as a guilty pleasure, but through every conversation I've ever had, episode 1 and especially 2 are always viewed as the worst whereas people understand the Sequels are actually well made movies, script and production wise. Let's remember Lucas himself said that one of the reasons he sold Star Wars is because of how poor reception was to the prequels. That's not opinion, that's fact. Of course as I told OP, you're allowed to have your own opinion and art is subjective, but it's absolutely a hot take.
I have never met anyone in real life who actively dislikes the Sequels and in my experience it's a very "internet" thing to dislike them. The "worst" review I've gotten is for tRoS which someone was apathetic towards.
I know this is anecdotal, but what I'm trying to say is your experience is not universal. At all. Hope this perception helps you going forward.
Thanks for the reply. Sorry if my comment came out as haughty or unjust. I can totally understand a large number of people preferring the sequels. I think they are both flawed movie trilogies that had some bright spots. They are Star Wars trilogies, after all. I just don't think believing the prequels to be better than the sequels is a crazy "take".
You said that almost every single person you know agrees that the Sequels are better than the Prequels, but I can say with almost the same certainty that every single person I know believes the opposite.
Granted, I'm from a younger generation, and my friends are mostly from a specific demographic, as are many of the YouTubers I watch. However, I think it's unreasonable to call something a "hot take" that half a generation seems to be in agreement upon. You said my experience is not universal, but neither is yours. By the same logic you used, I could argue that saying the sequels are better is a "take".
It's not an "internet" thing either. I've always preferred the prequels, long before I even had a phone and quite a few of my friends have too. RotS has been my favorite Star Wars movie for a long time. In fact, even before the Sequels were out, I liked the prequels a lot. I just never used to be old enough to even have access to Reddit or YouTube, and I think a lot of my peers are in the same boat.
To say that this is "revisionist history" is pretty haughty. Why should it ever be "disturbing" to you that the new generations have their own opinion and are able to enjoy movies that you couldn't? What history are you trying to preserve? People being bullied on the internet for liking the Prequels? Decent movies being driven into the dust by satirical hate? Actors being bullied by people on the internet and scarred for life?
If we want to discuss "revisionist history" then we should really be talking about the original trilogy. Particularly, Return of the Jedi was not very well received by a lot of people when it came out.
The Prequels were undoubtedly hated at their release and got terrible reviews and scores. No one is trying to pretend that didn't happen. But so was RotJ. And so were the Sequel films. Sure AotC had bad reviews. Its Tomatometer score is only 65%. But guess what? Rise of Skywalker's is all the way down at 51%. The Last Jedi's popcorn meter rating is a horrifying 41% while AotC is at least 56%. If we want to compare based on profits we'll see that Attack of the Clones made 329 million and Revenge of the Sith made 414 million. Meanwhile, Rise of Skywalker had a profit of only 300 million nearly 20 whole years later. Even Force Awakens only had a profit of 540 million, 15 years after Attack of the Clones.
The prequels are definitely flawed movies, and I can understand why many people hate them. I just think it's wrong to assume that all people hate them. Give us proof why it's a "take" before just bandying that phrase around and disrespecting both the person who made the comment and the people who actually appreciate the Prequels.
The best parts of TLJ for me is most the stuff with Luke on the island. The retrospective of the Jedi order and such.
What drives me nuts is that after all that teaching of where the Jedi failed, Rey still wants to restart the order.
I've said for years and ever since TLJ. The Rise of Skywalker should not have been about Rey taking the name. It should have been about Rey leading from the real Last Jedi (Luke) and saying "hey, the Jedi order was flawed and failed, I'll make a better order to be the force users of the light, and embrace emotional connection without turning over fear to it, among other flaws that need correction" then she makes the new order, without the Jedi name, but as homage to all before, names of The Skywalker Order, making Rey, the first Skywalker, as a title, not a name. The Rise of Skywalker, following The Last Jedi.
I rewatched them with my kids for the first time since RoS and enjoyed TLJ more which I was surprised by. They are all more painful to watch than fun but TLJ is the least cringe.
I won't defend this movie but when I saw this scene I was blown away by just the imagery. Didn't salvage the whole film for me but oddly was enough for me not to hate it.
I knew from the beginning from watching the trailer and how much it mirrored ANH and it was written by JJ Abrams that it was going to fail despite the visual spectacle.
Say what you want about the lows of TLJ, but I say that a lot of it is attributed to the mystery box writing of JJ and leaving Rian to figure out the mess that JJ himself had no idea where he was going with. JJ was always ask questions and figure out the answers at the end but because he never writes with a plan, the answers are never satisfying enough to the complex questions he poses like who is Rey’s parents, who is snoke, what happened to Luke and the Jedi, why did Ben turn evil.
Having these deep questions and having rian to figure it out, I think we got some good answers. Rey is a nobody, came from nothing (which subverts traditional Star Wars mythical chosen one saving the day trope added with the final shot of broom boy), Luke made a terrible mistake dealing with Ben and his growing darkness that was worse than Vader
people forget about when Luke met Vader, Luke met Vader when he had no family and mentors left so he desperately tries to cling onto Vader’s now crumbling resolve to the dark side and push him back into the light and was willing for a moment to kill him to protect leia and his friends, kill the emperor to save his friends, and there is a strong narrative parallel to where luke and Anakin had to stop themselves from killing their enemy [Windu and Vader] but Anakin wasn’t able to because he had to save his loved one.
Luke had to save his loved one also which happened to be the enemy he was trying to kill so it’s much easier. Luke was willing to die and let the Jedi order with him also die as yoda warned cause he wasn’t able to defeat Vader and the emperor and was only saved cause tada, mythical chosen one is back and saves Luke’s ass. Luke was also willing to fight Vader in bespin despite yoda’s warnings cause he wanted to save his friends.
We see time and time again Luke is just as impatient and selfish as Anakin was but unlike Anakin, Luke surrounded himself with good people. So I think it’s believable enough that for a split moment Luke like any human being realistically would try to stop a space Hitler who kills billions with a planet super weapon and space Nazis reborn even if he was your relative and Luke and novel tells us snoke aka palpatine already influenced Ben and Luke thought he could do the right thing but again no, he was selfish in his desire to save his family that he decided not to, this time he just got unlucky and Ben used that moment as rationalization to take the final step into becoming evil.
People view Luke as a this mythical hero who can do no wrong but I think rian showed us that he is human and because he and everyone else viewed him as supernatural, his human failures are amplified 100X and he feels personally responsible despite not being his fault which rian directly addresses in the movie.
Now was this possibly the best reason? Maybe, maybe not but I think it’s a believable one narratively and also it’s logical considering JJ left the big question which was already implied that Luke and Ben had a falling out somehow and he is the “pupil that turned against him” that Han mentions to Rey and Finn on the falcon when discussing Luke’s disappearance.
Who was snoke was also a big question but again rian shows us that he too was nobody important and this movie was supposed to show kylo cementing into the dark side. They wanted kylo to be the reverse vader and have him every movie become more evil rather than with Vader slowly turn back into the light (kylo in a novel or comic iirc comments on how he thought it was weak of Vader to turn to the light at his final moments).
Sorry for the long rant, just had to explain myself which I know is a hot take.
TLDR: TLJ best, TFA set up the trilogy for failure because screw JJ and his trash writing style, Rian did the best he could. TLJ tho did have also a lot of other problems.
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u/Barleyandjimes 15d ago
I think the best parts of The Last Jedi are better than the best parts of The Force Awakens but overall I’m more fond of The Force Awakens. But that is largely due to nostalgia and the lows of The Last Jedi and the entirety of TROS being that bad.
This is a complicated answer
“A good question for another time”
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