Nightmare in Spain

[u/Ok_Regular473]

Hi, I’m in what feels like it’s quickly becoming a nightmare. I don’t have any family left or a permanent/physical residence in the USA, but I was born there and am a citizen. After college, I moved to Honduras (where I have some family) and stayed for 3 years. I met my partner there. Not too long after we met, his mom sent for him from Spain & he chose to go because of the opportunity for a better life. Before he could leave, one of my parents was suddenly killed in an accident back in the USA. I ended up leaving Honduras first and flying back for this. My partner migrated to Spain during this tragic event.

After all of this, I really had no where to go back to. I wasn’t a resident of honduras and was lucky to leave with just a small fee after staying for 3 years there. No family in the US, but Spain seemed to be an option since my partner had already gone. I tried everything to get a visa, but ultimately the process was so confusing and I wasted so much time and money just to find out that I didn’t really qualify for anything.

This entire time I’d been supporting myself as an online freelancer and based on the various visa requirements, it appeared I wouldn’t be able to satisfy any of the options. Not even the freelancer option (since they say that my type of freelancer which is sort of like a youtuber, doesn’t qualify) With my job, although I’d love to take a class, I can’t dedicate 20 hours each week and continue on renewing the class every 6 months paying all of those fees. It would be impossible and I would likely fail at my freelance job since I handle all aspects myself. Customer service, production etc. I need to be available pretty much 24/7. I obviously can not stay under a work visa for the same reason, I’m already employed. I also don’t “own” a property here worth 500k or more.

I tried coming to Spain to see if there was anything else that could be done from here. Maybe I was missing some loophole? Joke seems to be on me.

Though my partner wants me to stay, It seems like there’s just no hope. He isn’t a resident or citizen (remember he migrated) but he is in his 3rd year of the process. In order for me to get something like residency he would need to obtain it first and then we could possibly do pareja de hecho (if I’m not mistaken). Again, all of this is just very confusing.

He had found a decent retail job while here, but hasn’t been able to renew his NIE in time due to the scarcity of appointments. Many people deal with this setback and it ruins things. I’m here now, but He’s lost his job due to this, and I’m not sure there’s a way I can stay to help with bills until he’s able to find a new job.

My 3 month tourist visa will expire in 2 weeks and when I got here we rented an apartment with a lease before finding out that the student visa wasn’t as simple as it seemed and although many say its the “easiest”, it actually had very strict requirements that would just be impossible for me personally. I would like to be able to stay, but it seems that now I’m facing staying illegally and I’m not even really certain for how long, especially with the governement and appointments for things being as difficult as it is.

Every day, I feel sick to my stomach, I become easily irritated and don’t have much appetite. I feel so depressed and I hate that my partner feels its his fault for not being a resident or citizen. I know my partner cant do much as an immigrant himself, but I feel my hands are tied as well and I’m so afraid. I’m literally just so afraid to overstay and lock myself in this country, with both of us uncertain as to what the future holds. On the other hand, I also don’t have anywhere else to go… and if I did leave and go to the USA I’d be starting all over. Realistically, I’d have to leave the love of my life behind or be in a distant relationship for years…

I may be a lost cause, every part of me feels like it, but talking to someone at the very least might spark some hope. Any advice would be more than appreciated.

[u/Appropriate-Row-6578]

I don’t think you can do anything in two weeks, except going to talk to a lawyer. You’re already working illegally while on a tourist visa. Don’t make it worse by overstaying. You should go back to the US and keep talking to a lawyer to see what options you have. If you can show you have $33k (and can prove with bank statements that you didn’t make the money while being a tourist in Spain), you could qualify for a non-lucrative visa, but note that means you cannot work.

[u/Unfair-Advice778 → u/Appropriate-Row-6578]

ern, I'm going to argue it's legal to work remotely while on any kind of visa. They aren't working in Spain.

Or would you assume if I fly to Thailand and open my laptop there to do a quick code fix - it's illegal?

[u/HeavyDutyJudy → u/Unfair-Advice778]

I have a non lucrative visa, I was required to sign a sworn statement saying that I was not employed by anyone nor would I work in any capacity for the duration of my visa. You cannot legally work remotely with a non lucrative visa.

[u/LupineChemist → u/HeavyDutyJudy]

Yeah but you get into a big, stupid conversation about what is "work".

If you make money by owning a bunch of stocks or something, is doing trades considered "work"? What if you own a bunch of rental properties and you're on the phone with a manager of them for a couple hours a day?

The lines are a lot fuzzier than everyone here is making them out to be.

[u/ThePhoneBook → u/LupineChemist]

Those lines aren't nearly as fuzzy as you imagine in reality. Spain for example has rules about how many properties before hiring out your holiday homes becomes a property business, giving you substantial tax advantages but also meaning you would need permission to work in Spain if you're running it from Spain.

As for buying and selling shares for yourself, millions of people do that including Spaniards, sometimes making it their main source of income - just like some people (especially historically when interest rates were much higher) would make interest their main source of income. It's not inherently employment or self-employment any more than occasionally buying and selling crap on eBay is. Many UK pensioners will make much or most of their income from investment wrappers and will re-balance them every so often while retired in Spain, but that's definitely not work by any visa definition.

There are a minority of cases where a person is considered to have a job of trading in their own investments, mind. The tax implications are interesting if they trade in complex and stupid instruments like CFDs, e.g. in the UK there is no capital gains tax on wins and no ability to count against CGT for losses *unless* you're basically engaged in such trading as your main source of income, in which case you're either a professional investor running an investment banking company or you're a fucking idiot and likely to go broke soon (hence all those "60-80% of retail investors lose money through this platform" warnings that people ignore). But this is regular and substantial daily work - stock trades aren't a daily thing and shouldn't be a daily thing for the retail investor, since amateur speculation is for idiots.

[u/Unfair-Advice778 → u/HeavyDutyJudy]

With a non lucrative visa - yes. With a Schengen - I assume you're just a tourist legally, so you can work.

Did I miss the part where OP specified they are on non lucrative?
If so, I apologize and working, even remotely, is indeed prohibited for that kind of visa.

[u/HeavyDutyJudy → u/Unfair-Advice778]

The person whose comment you replied to was recommending she get a non lucrative visa but that she wouldn’t be able to work and you said you felt working remotely on any type of visa was legal. I was just clarifying that with the NLV that is definitely not true.

[u/Unfair-Advice778 → u/HeavyDutyJudy]

You’re already working illegally while on a tourist visa

I was specifically replying to the quoted sentence. Far as I understand they are currently on a tourist visa.

And I did not say anywhere it was allowed on _any_ type of visa.
In fact I did not make a statement at all, I asked to elaborate since it seems rather outlandish to me to prohibit working remotely, while being a tax resident of another country and being on tourist visa.

Mainly out of common sense, since I can imagine a good number of cases where you absolutely have to work in such circumstances and there is no way you could've predicted it before entering a foreign country. Especially if you're self-employed or a business owner.
And, on the other hand I don't get what the law and country would achieve by prohibiting it. Like, what is the potential damage here?

That being said, I do not claim to have a good knowledge of these regulations so I would appreciate if anyone actually quoted / explained them to me. Instead of telling me to stfu, because "it's not IT, you dumb foreigner".

[u/HeavyDutyJudy → u/Unfair-Advice778]

“ern, I'm going to argue it's legal to work remotely while on any kind of visa.”

This quote from you is what I was replying to, the suggestion that it’s legal to work remotely on any kind of visa. It is not legal to work remotely on a NLV. And I certainly did not tell you to stfu or call you dumb, I was simply clarifying about the NLV because many people believe you can work on it as long as you aren’t employed by a Spanish company.

[u/Unfair-Advice778 → u/HeavyDutyJudy]

Yes, my bad. In my headspace I was referring to "any kind of tourist visa" .meaning, not only Schengen, but other countries as well, since I used Thailand as a possible example.
The actual phrasing was lame and plain wrong, sorry for that and you are right. Not all kinds of visa qualify.

>And I certainly did not tell you to stfu or call you dumb
And this was not directed at you at all, but rather a reflection on this one I read just before your comment https://www.reddit.com/r/GoingToSpain/comments/17qcflk/comment/k8dvwvc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
which felt rather offensive to me.

Again, sorry for misrepresenting both points. I should indeed try to be much more accurate and clear.

I hope my comment did not feel offensive to you in turn. If it did, please accept my apologies.