r/unitedkingdom • u/CaseyEffingRyback • Nov 14 '24

Baby red panda dies in Scotland after choking on vomit as nearby fireworks set off .

https://news.sky.com/story/baby-red-panda-dies-in-scotland-after-choking-on-vomit-as-nearby-fireworks-set-off-13253920

5.6k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

514

u/concretepigeon Wakefield Nov 14 '24

It’s pretty much the only folk festival left in the UK that’s widely celebrated. I don’t even particularly like fireworks but I think we need to be careful with our desire to ban everything here.

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/Merpedy Nov 14 '24

Anecdotal but apparently there’s not as many bonfires these days, probably because of the hedgehogs

Anyway, it’s insane that we have quiet fireworks but they don’t seem to be used as much

99

u/pajamakitten Dorset Nov 14 '24

Fewer gardens as well. Besides, hedgehog populations have declined more because of road collisions and habitat dissection than they ever will because of bonfires.

78

u/TooMuchBiomass Nov 14 '24

When the entire country is obsessed with having a flat patch of grass as the bulk of their "garden" it's hardly a surprise

26

u/Sheep03 Nov 14 '24

That's assuming it's even real grass.

41

u/LongBeakedSnipe Nov 14 '24

It's not just about the decline, its about the extreme suffering involved with burning them alive.

And anyone who knows what hedgehogs are like at night know that, if you make a bonfire one night and leave it over night to light the next day, there is a high chance that hedgehogs will find it and snuffle in.

It was long demanded that people actually move the bonfire on the day they light it, to check for hogs, but I can't imagine that many actually took that precaution.

12

u/King-Of-Throwaways Nov 14 '24

I’ve seen other commenters point it out, but it feels like there’s less justification for a bonfire now that it’s warmer, even if the difference is only a couple of degrees over the last few decades. I don’t feel like huddling around a fire when it’s barely cold enough for winter gloves.

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u/skintension Nov 14 '24

This was my 5th year living here and every year there have been a TON of fireworks, to the point where my cat (the one who can hear) was practically pissing herself in fear, but... I have yet to see a single bonfire or effigy.

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/headphones1 Nov 14 '24

As if most people give a flying fuck about Guy Fawkes and the history of the night. Most people just see it as a night that fireworks go off and there are bonfires. Not too different to Christmas being a day where most of the country have a day off and give each other presents.

I'm all for tradition, but people should at least be honest with themselves about what the tradition actually is.

8

u/RockinOneThreeTwo Liverpool Nov 14 '24

People in general are not honest with themselves or others when it comes to many things, especially if it's something they enjoy that has clear moral issues.

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u/ramxquake Nov 14 '24

How long does a tradition need to be before it's a tradition? I remember home firework displays in the 80s.

-3

u/SeaweedOk9985 Nov 14 '24

It's the same tradition, just changed over the years.

Going "well you don't do penny for the guy anymore, fireworks is different. Guy Fawkes night is here by made illegal" which is the gist of what you are saying.

Fireworks may hurt some animals, but lets be real. They shouldn't exactly be here either. Random pets exist because people gain pleasure from owning these animals. Not because they are some essential part of survival.

It's a lot of peoples desire to celebrate what they view as a traditional get together of friends, family and community vs a lot of other people's desire to have a pet not bark at a door all night.

9

u/WinningTheSpaceRace Nov 14 '24

What a strange argument. Humans had pets for millennia before bonfire night which, as others have pointed out, only involved personal firework sales in living memory. People are welcome to come together to celebrate, but that shouldn't necessarily involve endangering animals - both domestic and wild.

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u/SeaweedOk9985 Nov 14 '24

Pet ownership has exploded in recent decades.

Dogs: The dog population has grown 76% since 1990.

Cats: The cat population has grown 63% since 1990.

Not too long ago when using your millennia scale, the only owners were the wealthy upperclass inventing breeds every other tuesday, or the odd working dog used to hunt for sport.

Using fireworks doesn't necessarily involve endangering animals (other than birds). But it can happen.

Cars hit cats... it's very very common. People should be able to travel without necessarily endangering animals - both domestic and wild.

The reason I make these random seeming analogies is because trying to sound all moral and just falls apart more obviously when you make it clear that the 'big issue' isn't that big anymore if it's related to anything else.

Cats decimate wildlife, there is no mass call for the criminalization of outdoor cats.

1

u/WinningTheSpaceRace Nov 14 '24

Pet ownership predates gunpowder if you want to go to extremes about it.

Cars serve a useful purpose for society, to knock that silly point on its head.

The impact of pets should be considered more broadly, but that doesn't negate the need to have a more sensible approach to fireworks.

0

u/SeaweedOk9985 Nov 14 '24

Cars CAN serve a useful purpose. But we don't restrict people from driving unless it's necessary do we.

0

u/Tay74 Nov 14 '24

Pet ownership gives people pleasure and companionship every day, it's hugely beneficial for many people's mental health

A firework making a loud bang makes people go "ooo" for a second. I think it's safe to say people would get by just fine if loud fireworks were taken off the market for the general public

Also I'd love to see an end to widespread outdoor cats in the UK, safer for the cats and the wildlife

2

u/SeaweedOk9985 Nov 14 '24

Do you not see how you are refusing to enter this from a neutral position.

I have 2 dogs and 2 ferrets, you wouldn't even know from my posting.

This isn't about what do YOU like.

Firework night whether you like it or not, is a festival period in the UK. One of the few festive periods this country has. It serves as a moment for friends, family and community to get together. It's not the fireworks themselves that are special. They are just part of a special night..

You diminish one to hype up the other. I could say that pet ownership is just the enslavement of another animal against it's will to make your serotonin and dopamine go boom. Meanwhile fireworks night is a festival enjoyed by millions.

my point isn't to ban either. It's to show that any reason you think is valid for banning fireworks can be used for so much other stuff.

1

u/Tay74 Nov 14 '24

Except it's not the same reason is it? That's like saying in response to knives being banned "I could say knives are a source of security and defence for people who feel afraid on the streets"

You can twist some bullshit reason to defend any position you want to take, doesn't mean that steps to mitigate harm should never be taken

People can still gather in community and have a good night with friends and family with the fireworks that cause less noise. People finding that hearing the firework go bang increases their enjoyment by 5% of whatever shouldn't outweigh the harm and stress is does to people and animals

It's a very simple compromise, I don't for the life of me understand why people like you turn it into "well what if people tried to ban insert completely random enjoyable thing here"

14

u/CreativismUK Nov 14 '24

We have two disabled kids and fireworks can be so distressing for them and their peers. Which would be one thing if it were one night, and not every single night hours after it got dark, often just as they got to sleep. It’s been every night for over 2 weeks now.

1

u/jjgill27 Nov 14 '24

Come to Lewes, there’s a shit ton

1

u/UnSpanishInquisition Nov 15 '24

It's super popular in the SE almost every village and town has an effigy burning. Battle being one of the best with actual proper effigy. They had puttin a few years ago, I just wish they didn't soak it in diesel or whatever it is that makes it so smokey as that's the vile bit. The parades great though.

26

u/Rekyht Hampshire Nov 14 '24

“Removing one of the biggest parts of the cultural event is unlikely to have any real impact”

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/Littleloula Nov 14 '24

It wasn't common in the 80s or 90s either

23

u/BonzoTheBoss Cheshire Nov 14 '24

Really? I grew up in the 90s and everyone around me (including us) had garden fireworks nights.

2

u/SwirlingAbsurdity Nov 14 '24

Also grew up in the 90s and it was very rare for my neighbours to have fireworks in their garden. Everyone went to the big official display in the park instead.

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u/steepleton Nov 14 '24

well, but it was though wasn't it

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u/schlebb Nov 14 '24

It definitely was in the 90’s

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u/Astriania Nov 14 '24

families having their own fireworks display

But that's not what people are trying to ban, the big loud fireworks are usually part of an organised or community display.

3

u/ramxquake Nov 14 '24

So it's a tradition that's only three generations old. Until the 90s multiculturalism wasn't common but now it 'built Britain'.

-2

u/Rekyht Hampshire Nov 14 '24

Thats 50 years… that’s at least an entire generation. Are we only allowed things that we’ve had for 100s of years? What’s the cut off before we’re allowed to have it?

Let’s just ban everything.

Millions of people attend fireworks shows or displays of some type every year, just because it’s a modern event doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value or cultural impact. There are people in this thread even saying silent fireworks aren’t good enough, so it’s clear there’s no realistic end game here, other than a complete ban on something millions enjoy.

23

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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0

u/BonzoTheBoss Cheshire Nov 14 '24

Who's banned collecting money for the guy?

I'd say it more likely fell out of fashion for two reasons: one, fewer people carry actual coins around anymore and two, thanks to inflation a few pound coins buys very little these days, so there's less incentive.

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u/Tay74 Nov 14 '24

The bang of a firework is the biggest part of guy fawkes night?

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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 Nov 14 '24

All of those things require council budget. Culture budget? Idk the specifics. But look at how many displays are cancelled or not even planned anymore due to cutbacks.

Fireworks are relatively cheap and can be done by any family basically anywhere.

19

u/Exotic-Intention-596 Nov 14 '24

That’s the issue isn’t it any tom dick or Harry can buy fireworks all year round and set them off at any unpredictable time. Firework displays give people a chance to look after their animals and do as much to prevent any unnecessary suffering as a result. There’s a guy across the road from me that as soon as it hits October it’s almost a constant… every night he’s launching fireworks.

12

u/terahurts Lincolnshire Nov 14 '24

I fucking hate the weeks leading up to fireworks. We spent most evenings with our dog wedged between us, shaking and absolutely terrified while worrying about one of the cats having a stress-fit because some twat nearby likes thing that go 'Bang!' and has all the self-control of a toddler on speed.

Meanwhile, the local sports and social club, who host the (free) big town display each year give everyone plenty of notice about the date, starting time and duration, even posting letters to the houses in the streets surrounding the field. That I'm okay with, we can make sure our dog has been out to the garden before it start and get him settled and and the display only lasts 30 minutes, so we're not playing Russian roulette with random pops, whistles and bangs if he needs the garden between 4pm and midnight.

2

u/schlebb Nov 14 '24

Comments like these make me so glad that my dog doesn’t mind fireworks at all. It’s a true blessing because what you’re describing sounds horrible to have to deal with.

I can literally walk Bonnie on bonfire night while fireworks are going off all around us and she isn’t fussed. She reacts a little surprised to the exceptionally loud rockets but other than that she just gets on with her sniffing and weeing.

Have you tried one of those pull-on ear defender type snoods for dogs? That should help muffle the sound a lot

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u/SeaweedOk9985 Nov 14 '24

Any tom dick and harry can buy a car on facebook marketplace and drive it into shopping centre.

We don't ban things simply because people can do things.

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u/Llama-Bear Nov 14 '24

Firearms.

Controlled industrial chemicals.

The vast majority of other explosives.

Drugs.

We kinda do ban them on that basis.

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 Nov 14 '24

  Communities can band together to get a small local display put on.

You'd be surprised at what kind of legal stuff you have to get through to organise an event like this.

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/QuantumR4ge Hampshire Nov 14 '24

The issue is almost everything in this country has someone saying this same thing, we ban everything and people are fed up with it.

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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 Nov 14 '24

  If it’s about a folk festival, there are plenty of ways to do that don’t involve fireworks.

There's lots of ways we can rewrite culture. Doesn't mean everyone will be happy about it.

You can easily celebrate guy fawkes with just a bonfire... What do we do about all the other festivals where fireworks are a huge part of celebrations?

1

u/Strange-Owl-2097 Nov 14 '24

Fireworks are an integral part of this folk festival, they symbolise the cache of gunpowder he was going to use to blow up parliament.

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/madmanchatter Nov 14 '24

Private displays being common place is even more recent than that, I grew up in the 80's and 90's and with the exception of sparklers I cannot remember any of my friends ever talking about having an at home fireworks display.

It feels like it has been come way more common post the millennium.

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u/Unhappy_Smoke1926 Nov 14 '24

Pandas shouldn't really be here, should they? They should be in the wild.

This is an issue about care. If the panda has been transplanted to Edinburgh and died it's because they haven't built the correct enclosure etc. It's mother also died, so they're clearly doing something wrong and trying to blame external factors.

For the record I don't like fireworks, but I really don't like zoos.

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u/cc0011 Nov 14 '24

Sadly, for conservation reasons, we very much need captive populations of species. Also it should be a point of pride for the UK that we have such high quality zoological institutions, that are responsible for housing these animals, and running captive breeding programmes

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u/CloverInCrimson Nov 14 '24

Should we be proud of South Lakes in Cumbria then?

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u/cc0011 Nov 14 '24

Don’t know that institution well enough to pass judgement on them

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u/Death_God_Ryuk South-West UK Nov 14 '24

A purely conservational programme would probably be best done in a climate similar to the natural one.

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u/cc0011 Nov 14 '24

In situ conservation programmes are always preferable, but sadly a lot of the areas these species live in naturally, are unsuitable for running them, for an array of reasons (safety of programme workers, excessive habitat loss and fragmentation meaning populations can’t currently be sustained etc). I’d much rather run an in vitro conservation programme, and keep a sustainable stock of that species, than allow them to go exist aiming for an in situ perfect programme.

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u/Death_God_Ryuk South-West UK Nov 14 '24

I don't disagree, but I think a lot of the reasoning is selfish - we want to see the cute animal and don't want to give away the money needed to conserve them natively.

It just seems a bit rich to bring a creature from an entirely different environment here, which necessitates a lot of extra support and makes it more fragile, and then complain that it's struggling. Zoo animals frequently suffer stress due to non-native environment/diet, small enclosures, and disruption from guests already.

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u/SomniaStellae Nov 14 '24

Pandas shouldn't really be here, should they? They should be in the wild.

I don't like animals which are common being in zoo's. However Red Panda's are endangered, with less than 10,000 though to be in the wild. Many zoo's have established breeding and conservation programmes.

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u/TobblyWobbly Nov 14 '24

But it's not just pandas this happens to. It's just that they're cute and get publicity.

I hate zoos, too, but this isn't a one off.

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u/Gueld Scotland Nov 14 '24

These pandas would likely be extinct, they are endangered.

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u/WinningTheSpaceRace Nov 14 '24

Do you like animal extinctions?

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u/hurtloam Nov 14 '24

Wee soul was a red panda. The 2 panda pandas have gone back to China.

A red panda is a kind of skunky, raccoon type thing.

Edinburgh zoos giant pandas leave zoo

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u/Tay74 Nov 14 '24

The mother also died on a night with a lot of fireworks.

And okay, forget the pandas for a second, what about all the native wildlife or pets that die or are injured as a result of fireworks?

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u/ewok251 Nov 14 '24

There are also silent fireworks

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u/Souseisekigun Nov 14 '24

Gathering for bonfires

Pssh, and risk destroying native habitats and exacerbating carbon pollution? Please!

There’s plenty to do that doesn’t cause distress and death to tiny pandas.

For a serious answer that is sort of the point. Almost everything we do is going to cause death or suffering to some sort of creature in some way. Much of what we do is enabled by distress and death to humans. People indulge in fast fashion that is enabled by borderline slavery, go buy meat that is literally just dead animals that have been killed many times in gruesome ways after a life of forced captivity and both of these are enabled by a larger lifestyle that is killing the planet because politicians are too scared to be the first to tell people the ride has to end some day. But somehow I'm the horrible person for thinking that fireworks shouldn't be regulated out of existence.

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u/Expensive-Twist8865 Nov 14 '24

It also wouldn't stop fireworks.

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/Expensive-Twist8865 Nov 14 '24

Banning fireworks will not stop people using fireworks.

Ireland has had them banned for my entire lifetime, we still popped fireworks twice a year.

Unless the government wants to go full attack against producers, which would then insinuate it's a moderate level priority for them, which it shouldn't be.

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u/Exurota Nov 14 '24

Civil liberties restricted for the safety of animals that aren't even native to the bloody country, good god

2

u/ramxquake Nov 14 '24

They'll go after bonfires next. Dangerous. Associated with sectarianism. The smoke is bad for your lungs. Net zero. Hedgehogs inside them. Ruins people's washing. Burning the guy is anti-catholic.

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

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u/Elemayowe Nov 14 '24

When you get into the manufacturing of the polymers and batteries etc I’d be surprised if it wasn’t higher than burning a big pile of wood.

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '24

Thing is it's not just 1 night of fireworks you also have other cultures celebrating their traditions with fireworks. There have been fireworks going off in my area literally every day from Halloween until just the other day.

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u/FloydEGag Nov 14 '24

This is it, where I live in London it’s almost every night from Halloween through to Chinese New Year. Admittedly a lot of it will just be dickheads but fireworks are so much more easily available at this general time of year.

1

u/JellyfishGentleman Nov 15 '24

Broken britain

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u/NiceCornflakes Nov 15 '24

It’s been a thing since Covid for me, I remember in lockdown my whole street seemed to let off fireworks every night from Halloween to New Year. I think a lot of it is bored kids or people wanting to dazzle their kids for their birthday, like my neighbours who let off a few fireworks the other night for their daughter’s 6th birthday party. It just so happens they all seem to be let off this time of year because that’s when the supermarkets are selling them and it gets dark early.

I was visiting my partners family in Greece earlier this year and some kids were letting off fireworks at 1 in the afternoon “for fun” and the noise was actually distressing, it was extremely loud, more loud than the ones I’ve seen and heard here. Every bang set all the birds and dogs off.

Personally I think fireworks should only be allowed for organised displays and not sold to the general public. Way too many people mistreat them.

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u/ramxquake Nov 14 '24

Thing is it's not just 1 night of fireworks you also have other cultures celebrating their traditions with fireworks.

Which is why you can't ban them now: it would be racist.

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u/RaymondBumcheese Nov 14 '24

Its less a desire to ban everything and more having to face up to the choice that we are either a nation of animal lovers or we aren't.

Pets and wildlife fucking hate them and we either do something about that or we don't.

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u/cc0011 Nov 14 '24

Having worked for a number of animal charities… we very much are not a nation of animal lovers. We could be described as a nation of dog lovers, with small pockets of love for other animals. Thats about it

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u/OldGodsAndNew Edinburgh Nov 14 '24

If we were a nation of animal lovers we'd all be veggie/vegan

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u/Infinite_Expert9777 Nov 14 '24

The UK is definitely not a nation of animal lovers

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u/TheAdamena Nov 14 '24

we are either a nation of animal lovers or we aren't.

We're absolutely not lol

Cats and dogs are about as far as that love goes, and even then.

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u/philipwhiuk London Nov 15 '24

Baby red pandas are neither pets nor wildlife.

Maybe the real question is why we need red pandas in zoos

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u/Upstairs-Hedgehog575 Nov 15 '24

“Animal lovers” gets my absolute goat as a phrase. Half the animal lovers I know are feeding endangered tuna to their cats or carbon intensive beef to their dogs.

Whenever the topic of fireworks come up everyone likes to include wild animals to show its not just about their fur babies. But let’s be honest, it mildly affects wild animals as the vast majority of fireworks are let off in urban area. And those same people are happy with all the other frivolous things we do that destroy habitat and the environment. Suddenly when it serves your agenda you’re all for protecting the environment - is this an unfair characterisation? Probably hard to swallow, but I don’t think it’s wrong.

1

u/Souseisekigun Nov 14 '24

we are either a nation of animal lovers or we aren't

The single most effective thing the people going "a few hours of enjoyment isn't worth killing innocent animals" could do is reduce meat (animal corpses) in their diet, but they're not going to, and they will get angry if you point this out to them. That should tell you how much of a nation of "animal lovers" we are.

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u/NiceCornflakes Nov 15 '24

No, we’re a nation of DOG lovers, not animal lovers, and even then there are countless people who mistreat their dogs. And when I say dog lovers, I mean we’re one of the few cultures where it seems normal to treat your dog like a literal baby. They’re still considered working animals and not pets in some parts of the world, so yes, compared to them we look like animal lovers. But the truth is, most of our meat comes from torture factories, no one is willing to massively cut back so animals can be reared organically, no we want chicken every other day, so they have to be raised en masse in their own shit. Not to mention the disaster that is our countryside.

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u/oktimeforplanz Nov 14 '24

Fireworks literally do not need to make a bang though - silent fireworks exist - and it's the noise that's the problem.

I don't really give a fuck about preserving a folk festival or any tradition at all in its precise current format of loud explosions because some people like a big noise.

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u/Merpedy Nov 14 '24

Even silent fireworks make some noise. It’s muffled and my dogs seem to react to them a lot better but still noise that could affect you or animals negatively if close enough and there’s a large number of fireworks being set off

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u/oktimeforplanz Nov 14 '24

Frankly I'd ban them all outside of pre-arranged displays run by people who know what they're doing, but since allegedly some people's mental health hinges on being able to set off fireworks from their garden (?!), then banning the ones that make an artificially loud noise is the next best thing.

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u/jflb96 Devon Nov 14 '24

If your mental health depends that strongly on fireworks, you can go on a course and become the trained setter-offer for the local display

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u/Astriania Nov 14 '24

silent fireworks exist

Yes and they're shit.

Next up - a silent Metallica concert. Silent guitars exist, and it's the noise that's the problem, why can't you music enjoyers just enjoy the experience quietly?

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u/Upstairs-Hedgehog575 Nov 15 '24

Lucky you’re not in charge then I think.

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u/cc0011 Nov 14 '24

Stick to the one night that is actually the celebration

Make it so they can’t be sold for personal use/they can only be used at organised shows

Only sell the noiseless ones

There are plenty of ways to still celebrate it, while also removing the annoying af aspects. It’s been roughly 3 weeks now of every night being fireworks going off. Personal favourite was the person letting them off on a random night, at gone midnight.

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u/king_duck Nov 15 '24

Stick to the one night that is actually the celebration

When is that? The 5th? or the Friday/Saturday before or the Friday/Saturday after?

This year is pretty much the worst case. Midweek guy fawkes night means that people will realitistically run fireworks parties on either bookending weekend.

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u/SeaweedOk9985 Nov 14 '24

I am sick and tired of dog shit in my local woods.

Time to ban dogs that poop. The ones that don't are fine, but the ones that shit need to go. There are plenty of ways for people to get the affection of a pet. Many caged mammals are sociable, rats & ferrets come to mind.

I bet loads of people have plenty of negative stories about their encounters with dog shit.

This isn't about banning something because one sect of people is annoyed, and just ignoring the other side. Passing it off as some feckless fancy that simply annoys people.

If we acted like that, everything would be banned. Hoovering past 7pm because of babies. Washing your car on a public road because of splash back onto other cars. There are so many annoying parts of living in a society.

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u/Aiyon Nov 14 '24

Yes. An animal's bodily functions, is the same as people setting off explosions at 2am. You are very smart

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u/CrushingK Nov 14 '24

"oh its just a little shit on the footpath" yeah mate, everyone thinks the same thats why the whole street stinks of shit and piss

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u/Aiyon Nov 14 '24

in my local woods.

Interesting how your cutting retort changed the situation being discussed.

It doesn't even refute what i'm saying because the issue there is people not cleaning up their dog's shit from pavements, not the dog shitting.

"Oh its just a couple rockets". Yeah mate, everyone thinks the same, that's why the whole neighbourhood sounds like the troubles every other evening for most of winter

Also, the whole street? where do you live that has such a severe public shitting problem?

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u/Upstairs-Hedgehog575 Nov 15 '24

Dogs shit in the woods and on the pavement. You don’t have to list every where dogs shit to make a valid point.

And I’ve lived places where there was a terrible dog problem. Owners let their dogs piss on my door or the front of my house, shit all over the place - would regularly be cleaning it off my shoe and the pram wheels.

It doesn't even refute what i'm saying because the issue there is people not cleaning up their dog's shit from pavements, not the dog shitting.

Fair, but how many posts are there her complaining about fireworks going off at 2am? That’s surely no different?

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u/Aiyon Nov 15 '24

You're right. People not cleaning up after their dog IS an issue. We should do something about it.

And that's why there's a penalty fine if you're caught not cleaning up after your dog.

That's why the analogy doesn't make sense to me. We do ban people from leaving dog shit all over the street. It not being effectively enforced doesnt mean it isnt a thing

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u/Upstairs-Hedgehog575 Nov 15 '24

But that’s my point. We do ban people from setting off fireworks at 2am. It’s just not effectively enforced.

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u/Aiyon Nov 15 '24

In which case, expanding that ban won't change much :P

I get you though. I'm not team "completely ban them" to be clear. Just like, restrict sale periods more, and actually do something about people breaking those rules

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u/SwirlingAbsurdity Nov 14 '24

If the whole street stinks then that sounds like a problem with your neighbours being irresponsible owners. I’ve never come across that, ever.

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u/Alert-One-Two United Kingdom Nov 14 '24

There's alternative options that do not make loud noises. Both traditional fireworks that are silent/low noise/quiet and other non-fireworks options such as drone displays.

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u/king_duck Nov 15 '24

That sounds fucking shite. The loud bang is what makes them fun.

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u/Exotic-Intention-596 Nov 14 '24

I think this too although I have PTSD and I don’t like fireworks, we kinda have nothing really to look forward too here now I mean Christmas is around the corner and that’s been turned into a whole has the most money festival. Christmas shite being sold from September it’s completely been ruined by consumerism.

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u/MultiMidden Nov 14 '24

Perhaps we can replace it with Banmas as the national folk festival as banning things seems to be the favourite pastime of many Brits?

Although Halloween is said to originate in the British Isles it has been totally Americanised, I'm old enough to remember ET at the cinema as a kid and we were introduced to the concept of 'trick or treat'. Kind of ironic that there'll people who want to see fireworks banned but are totally cool with kids in effect 'demanding with menaces'. Personally speaking so long as it's done sensibly I'm fine with both (I'm also old enough to remember buying fireworks legally as a 16-17 year old and I'm sure it was less of problem back then)

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u/Tenk-o Nov 14 '24

True, it feels kinda sad that many other countries have big festivals with lots of lights and food and music but ours feel very small and 'council dependant'. I think I would be happy with them banning fireworks if the government made more of an effort promoting other holidays and funding them to be more extravagant, the cold winter nights do need more light festivals and markets. But we just don't have the money anymore (and i'd argue a very prevalent 'guilt' culture that if, god forbid, you take your kid out late and they're tired at school the next day then you're gonna get a condescending email for your negligence).

3

u/NiceCornflakes Nov 15 '24

It’s true and very sad that the British have lost a lot of their traditions/celebrations, and the ones we do have left are either being protested due to fireworks, or commercialised like Halloween and Christmas. Every time I go to Greece with my partner to visit his family I am reminded of this. I remember the first time I went, it was during Easter, I called my mum and told her I know what she means now when she says Britain is losing its culture.

7

u/X_Trisarahtops_X Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24

I don't think many reasonable people are calling for a ban. People are calling for others not to be setting off fireworks in unsafe manners literally in the streets in uncontrolled ways. I've seen the videos of Edinburgh on bonfire night on the BBC link.

Absolutely feral and entirely unsafe, including having firefighters attacked. There's no space for that kind of behaviour, including on bonfire night.

I adore bonfire night. I'm local to lewes which has one of the biggest bonfire events in the uk and I love it. Its a big night here.

But the videos coming out of Edinburgh are properly wild and shouldn't be tolerated.

Edit: amended wording to reflect what I meant more accurately.

32

u/Mattehzoar Nov 14 '24

I don't think anyone's calling for a ban.

"RZSS deputy chief executive Ben Supple has backed calls for a ban on the sale of fireworks to the public."

3rd sentence if you'd have clicked the article.

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u/X_Trisarahtops_X Nov 14 '24

Yes. I read the article. Poor wording on my part. I more was referring to the average person. I don't think one recommendation or suggestion represents the average person.

6

u/-----1 Nov 14 '24

Do you honestly think the cretins letting fireworks off seemingly randomly for 2 weeks either side are doing so because they want to celebrate a folk festival?

2

u/Haemophilia_Type_A Nov 14 '24

What about silent fireworks?

3

u/CastleMeadowJim Nottingham Nov 14 '24

But the festival doesn't traditionally go on for over a week, yet the fireworks do. I agree it would be a shame to never see fireworks, but every night for the first week and a bit of November is too much.

0

u/LCFCgamer Nov 14 '24

Doesn't explain why fireworks have to make so much noise

People would still celebrate, meet, have bonfires, set off visual fireworks

1

u/CwrwCymru Nov 14 '24

Low noise fireworks are a pretty reasonable option imo.

1

u/EastOfArcheron Scotland Nov 14 '24

We can reduce the decibels of the bangs however and also make sure they are only done by professionals on certain days

1

u/Tay74 Nov 14 '24

Quiet fireworks exist.

1

u/quarky_uk Nov 14 '24

Have organised fireworks on the 5th, but just don't have fireworks on general sale.

1

u/WynterRayne Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24

When I was young, there used to be displays in parks. You'd go, be part of a big crowd, and watch the bangy sparkly things go bang and sparkle, then go back to a peaceful home.

Nowadays it's your upstairs neighbours having firework wars with some randoms in a garden down the road, on 13th of December. Followed the next night by Gary from number 44 sprinting down the high street with a sparkler hanging out his arse. The only community display anyone ever hears about is the one I pay for as a Londoner (but the rest of the country bitches about dramatically) for new years. I enjoy it a lot more knowing I paid for it

1

u/wolvesdrinktea Nov 14 '24

It’s reasonable for celebrations to evolve as time moves forward and the country’s population nears 70 million. As the population increases, the effect that we have on our surroundings and the people and animals within becomes even more prominent. There are plenty of ways to celebrate with quiet fireworks or public fireworks displays if people wish to.

1

u/Aiyon Nov 14 '24

The issue isn't fireworks night. It's random fireworks at random hours of the night, at random points in the year

1

u/Llama-Bear Nov 14 '24

Why not low bang?

1

u/bakewelltart20 Nov 14 '24

The 'UK folk festival' part is more the bonfire with the burning of the guy.

Fireworks happen all over the world, we can have bonfires without them.

I remember being absolutely terrified on bonfire night as a little child (in England) because of the fireworks, whereas I enjoyed the bonfires themselves.

Last time I went to a public fireworks display it was so deafening there were loads of little kids screaming their heads off, even I wished I'd brought earplugs. It was on a beach near a park, the poor wildlife would have been terrified.

1

u/Ok-Difficulty5453 Nov 14 '24

I think this is a fair comment.

I think a good compromise would be to have fireworks banned for the public. I mean, since when does it make sense to sell explosives to people?

Have firework displays run by official, regulated people on particular dates only.

1

u/Upstairs-Hedgehog575 Nov 15 '24

Don’t worry, soon all culture will be replaced by that of our fur babies.

1

u/DoozerGlob Nov 15 '24

Banning the private sale of fireworks wouldn't prevent anyone from celebrating.

0

u/nathderbyshire Nov 14 '24

No sane person wants a total ban, but they should come with a license and require better regulation. The fireworks were set off near a fucking zoo, can't you agree there should be a time and place? Why abuse animals for some bangs and pops?

0

u/Istoilleambreakdowns Nov 14 '24

Really? I was sure there's something that usually happens the week before....

0

u/CreativismUK Nov 14 '24

Sorry, which folk day do you mean? Because we’ve had loud fireworks going off late into the evening every night since the day before Halloween.

There are fireworks now that are quieter. There’s no need for residential areas to have fireworks so loud you can feel the vibrations in the floor.

I’ve celebrated bonfire night all my life, and it’s a relative’s birthday - we had firework and bonfire parties every year back in the 80s / 90s. The fireworks we had were nothing like what’s available now in terms of noise. And it was only ever on bonfire night, not every night for weeks on end with a peak on November 5th.

0

u/anybloodythingwilldo Nov 14 '24

FFS animals choking to death on their own vomit is worth it? Even after reading this people still lack empathy. Tradition is not more important than animal welfare.

1

u/concretepigeon Wakefield Nov 14 '24

The article makes it clear that it was a culmination of various issues in the lead up. Making policy based on a single freak occurrence would be silly.

0

u/Good_Morning-Captain Nov 16 '24

Why do we need to be careful? What would be lost? Explain the benefits or practical use of fireworks to counterweigh the negatives, which are clear for animals, the elderly, people with PTSD or other noise sensitivity conditions like autism.

-1

u/Manccookie Nov 14 '24

Folk festival? Its a celebration of sectarian violence, and ultimately the persecution of Catholics. Just because our other ‘folk festivals’ have been highjacked by the church and turned into a cash grab, doesn’t mean some of us don’t celebrate the original festivities.

1

u/concretepigeon Wakefield Nov 14 '24

It wouldn’t be Reddit if someone didn’t make a hackneyed argument about atheism, would it?

-1

u/Manccookie Nov 14 '24

Sorry if my facts upset you. 🫂

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