r/unitedkingdom • u/CaseyEffingRyback • Nov 14 '24
Baby red panda dies in Scotland after choking on vomit as nearby fireworks set off .
https://news.sky.com/story/baby-red-panda-dies-in-scotland-after-choking-on-vomit-as-nearby-fireworks-set-off-132539201.9k
u/VideoGamesAndBoobies Nov 14 '24
I don't think literally anyone needed to hear this at 9am 😭
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u/RockinOneThreeTwo Liverpool Nov 14 '24
Plenty of people need to hear it. Though for many of them it will be falling on deaf ears
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u/Phwoffy Nov 14 '24
100%
This story broke my heart, but I am grateful to Edinburgh Zoo for making it known. A friend missed her train recently, got home late so missed the start of the ridiculous banging. Blood up her walls, shit everywhere; her poor dog had almost chewed off one of his paws (later had to have it amputated) because he was so scared.
Fireworks kill animals - wild one, housed ones, sheep in fields, cute baby ones in the zoo. They also kill people, in rarer situations. The fact that they are now able to make quiet ones and people insist on buying the bangers is just absolute proof that nobody will listen.
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Nov 14 '24
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u/Agreeable_Falcon1044 Cambridgeshire Nov 14 '24
I'm amazed you can just buy fireworks at all over the counter. Surely it needs to be done by a professional. It's an explosive device and people are maimed and burnt every year through setting them off. Surely there has to be some regulation and health and safety here - has to be so many metres from property, exclusion area, trained professional etc.
Just to add, yesterday we heard loads of towns in Lincolnshire have cancelled Xmas due to all the paperwork and rules laid down, but individuals can set up an explosives factory in their garden that risks fire, injury and upset to the wildlife...and it's apparently ok :S
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u/Souseisekigun Nov 14 '24
All fireworks should be restricted to professionals only to reduce danger and anti-social behaviour. They should also only be allowed on one day of the year because to reduce nuisance and inconvenience. When they are allowed on that day of the year only the quiet versions will be allowed in case it scares the dogs, and also there will be no sparks in the sky because they can trigger epilepsy. Also the crowds will need to stand a quarter of a mile away in case there's any accidents.
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u/nyaadam Nov 14 '24
Is this satire or are you serious? Making me start to understand r/Dogfree, the entitlement is crazy.
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u/Francis-c92 Nov 14 '24
Fireworks shouldn't be available to the general public full stop
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u/Winter2928 Nov 14 '24
Sounds selfish but now I have 2 kids aged 3 and under I hate them. I don’t mind a professional display at 7-8pm that lasts for 20 mins then ends and that’s it. I hate the absolute pond scum setting them off at random times
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u/frontendben Nov 15 '24
Those professional displays also need restricting to the day of the celebration (Diwali, Bonfire Night, NYE). It's tough shit if Bonfire Night falls on a weekday, or there's another one down the road that isn't charging, so you won't make any money. They should be limited to the day and given a tight window they can be set off in, with heavy fines and loss of professional licences for failure to follow the rules.
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u/Winter2928 Nov 15 '24
Yeah. People round here do fireworks for about 3 weeks, all random times. Sometimes just a single loud one at like 2am after a night out as they probably think it’s funny
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u/Opening_Succotash_95 Nov 14 '24
Oh they listen, but they do it because it upsets people.
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u/Azradesh Nov 14 '24
I'm glad my cats never seem to give a shit. It was fucking non-stop on November 5th.
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u/lowweighthighreps Nov 14 '24
Because the fireworks fucked their hearing?
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u/RockinOneThreeTwo Liverpool Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
I think if that were the case they'd be slightly more reasonable people. Sometimes lessons are learned quickly when individuals are personally affected
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u/NiceVacation3880 Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
We've had years of parliamentary debates on firework licencing, with Mps on Labour, Tory, Lib Dems smirking and laughing calling it hardly serious.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 Nov 14 '24
Parliament might know that people don't always follow the law when it comes to gunpowder.
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u/ClimbingC Nottinghamshire Nov 14 '24
But if you ban the sale, the vast majority of people won't have access and won't have the motivation desire to buy black market ones, so there will be a vast reduction, yes, won't be zero, but will be far better.
That or just sell to licenced companies for display purposes only, professional use. Just like with mining explosives.
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u/TheAngryNaterpillar Nov 14 '24
The people who need to hear it still won't care, just like they don't care about the effect their fireworks have on wildlife, or the terrified pets, or the veterans with PTSD. Their enjoyment of loud bangs and sparkles in the sky is more important.
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u/bakewelltart20 Nov 14 '24
Do people actually enjoy the loud bangs? 😳
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u/Glowing_up Nov 14 '24
Yes I had someone explain to me that a light show like they did in covid wouldn't suffice to replace fireworks cause the bang is 50% of the experience.🤷
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u/anybloodythingwilldo Nov 14 '24
I remember in the thread about reducing fireworks a lot of accusations of people being authoritarians and 'miserable bastards' being thrown around. Yes, the people who want to try and prevent this kind of terrible thing are the miserable ones...
Who knows how many deaths there were in the wild.
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u/Rajastoenail Nov 14 '24
Just like no one needs to hear constant explosions every night for 2 weeks of the year
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u/Digidigdig Nov 14 '24
You only get them for 2 weeks. Lucky you. It’s a month round us
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u/tasi671 Nov 14 '24
They started in early October here and continue on until after the new year around me. Someone set them off at 2 in the afternoon yesterday (on a Wednesday). I'm so tired of it.
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u/freakofspade Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Same here. Day and night for months. Fortunately, they don't bother my pets too much but my friend has a German Shepherd who is terrified of them; spends the entire night shaking so violently, she looks like she's having some sort of fit. The dog is so afraid that a firework may go off whilst she is outside, she refuses to leave the house apart from early on a morning between 6:00-8:00am - because that's the only time of day/night she has never heard one.
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u/labrys Nov 14 '24
poor dog. One of my cats is the same. I found out a couple of years ago that playing fairly loud industrial metal on nights where the fireworks are bad helps. I guess the smaller bangs just blend in with the drums, and since the noise from the music is constant they can get used to it more easily than sudden explosions. Puts a bit of a crimp in my plans on those nights, but worth it for my little fella to sleep through the fireworks instead of spending the night shivering and hiding squashed behind the fridge.
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u/freakofspade Nov 14 '24
My friends puts the TV on with the volume up past 70 and the dog has vet prescribed medication to calm her nerves and calming plug-in diffusers... nothing helps. Her and her son end up wrapping her in a blanket and sandwiching her between them in bed all night. She shakes all through the night.
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u/labrys Nov 14 '24
Poor little beastie. Hopefully having them around her will at least make her feel protected even if she is still scared.
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u/estanmilko Norf Nov 14 '24
This year is our puppies first year of experiencing fireworks and he's already got PTSD from it. Sometimes he'll go on a walk but often he'll get outside and immediately panic. He'll randomly stop and stare at the sky or bark at nothing.
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u/ramsay_baggins Norn Irish in Glasgow Nov 14 '24
Yep October through til mid January for us. Almost every single night. It's exhausting.
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u/ClimbingC Nottinghamshire Nov 14 '24
Yeah, still going off. I braved taking the dogs out for a walk after work yesterday, got about 10 steps away from the house before a few were set off, resulting in me (almost) being dragged back home by petrified dogs.
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u/nathderbyshire Nov 14 '24
You only get them for a month? Lucky you. It's years round for us 😭
Funny enough this week has been the most calm. I think one lone one went off yesterday for some reason. Hope I haven't jinxed it
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u/FilthyRilthy Nov 14 '24
I seriously dont get fireworks anymore. No one in my family or friend group like them and are all just concerned for the environment/animals, yet we persist on blasting them and annoying everyone for 2 months of the year. I strongly believe were at the point where its a very vocal minority who want to continue with fireworks and they cry havoc whenever banning them is mentioned.
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u/NateShaw92 Greater Manchester Nov 14 '24
Blitz survivors: Amateurs!
I decided to use a non-current conflict for my bad taste joke but I agree. Over here you get random fireworks year round, just fuck off with em, keep em to the schedule.
Even if you like fireworks it makes them less special on those nights.
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u/No-Tooth6698 Nov 14 '24
Someone was setting them off between 6 and 8am near me a few weeks back. Mind boggling and infuriating.
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u/Ritsugamesh Nov 14 '24
They absolutely do, should be attached to the fireworks they line up to buy.
A news article was in uknews sub yesterday about a horse dying and the comments were nothing short of shocking - i.e. nobody gave a toss.
We have silent fireworks, make those the only ones. Multiple times a year poor animals suffer through weeks of PTSD as explosions go off, it is insane.
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u/mysticpotatocolin Nov 14 '24
i went into a meeting immediately after reading it and was sat like ☹️
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u/nightsofthesunkissed Nov 14 '24
"As unfortunate as this very much is, the needs and wants of those who enjoy hearing the loud bangy sounds do come before the suffering and lives of animals such as this, or those with PTSD, etc" blah blah fucking blah..
We know the over-tired excuses sad shits use to justify this. Extremely sad.
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u/concretepigeon Wakefield Nov 14 '24
It’s pretty much the only folk festival left in the UK that’s widely celebrated. I don’t even particularly like fireworks but I think we need to be careful with our desire to ban everything here.
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Nov 14 '24
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u/Merpedy Nov 14 '24
Anecdotal but apparently there’s not as many bonfires these days, probably because of the hedgehogs
Anyway, it’s insane that we have quiet fireworks but they don’t seem to be used as much
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u/pajamakitten Dorset Nov 14 '24
Fewer gardens as well. Besides, hedgehog populations have declined more because of road collisions and habitat dissection than they ever will because of bonfires.
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u/TooMuchBiomass Nov 14 '24
When the entire country is obsessed with having a flat patch of grass as the bulk of their "garden" it's hardly a surprise
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u/LongBeakedSnipe Nov 14 '24
It's not just about the decline, its about the extreme suffering involved with burning them alive.
And anyone who knows what hedgehogs are like at night know that, if you make a bonfire one night and leave it over night to light the next day, there is a high chance that hedgehogs will find it and snuffle in.
It was long demanded that people actually move the bonfire on the day they light it, to check for hogs, but I can't imagine that many actually took that precaution.
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u/King-Of-Throwaways Nov 14 '24
I’ve seen other commenters point it out, but it feels like there’s less justification for a bonfire now that it’s warmer, even if the difference is only a couple of degrees over the last few decades. I don’t feel like huddling around a fire when it’s barely cold enough for winter gloves.
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u/skintension Nov 14 '24
This was my 5th year living here and every year there have been a TON of fireworks, to the point where my cat (the one who can hear) was practically pissing herself in fear, but... I have yet to see a single bonfire or effigy.
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Nov 14 '24
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u/headphones1 Nov 14 '24
As if most people give a flying fuck about Guy Fawkes and the history of the night. Most people just see it as a night that fireworks go off and there are bonfires. Not too different to Christmas being a day where most of the country have a day off and give each other presents.
I'm all for tradition, but people should at least be honest with themselves about what the tradition actually is.
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u/RockinOneThreeTwo Liverpool Nov 14 '24
People in general are not honest with themselves or others when it comes to many things, especially if it's something they enjoy that has clear moral issues.
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u/CreativismUK Nov 14 '24
We have two disabled kids and fireworks can be so distressing for them and their peers. Which would be one thing if it were one night, and not every single night hours after it got dark, often just as they got to sleep. It’s been every night for over 2 weeks now.
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u/Rekyht Hampshire Nov 14 '24
“Removing one of the biggest parts of the cultural event is unlikely to have any real impact”
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Nov 14 '24
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u/Littleloula Nov 14 '24
It wasn't common in the 80s or 90s either
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u/BonzoTheBoss Cheshire Nov 14 '24
Really? I grew up in the 90s and everyone around me (including us) had garden fireworks nights.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 Nov 14 '24
All of those things require council budget. Culture budget? Idk the specifics. But look at how many displays are cancelled or not even planned anymore due to cutbacks.
Fireworks are relatively cheap and can be done by any family basically anywhere.
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u/Exotic-Intention-596 Nov 14 '24
That’s the issue isn’t it any tom dick or Harry can buy fireworks all year round and set them off at any unpredictable time. Firework displays give people a chance to look after their animals and do as much to prevent any unnecessary suffering as a result. There’s a guy across the road from me that as soon as it hits October it’s almost a constant… every night he’s launching fireworks.
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u/terahurts Lincolnshire Nov 14 '24
I fucking hate the weeks leading up to fireworks. We spent most evenings with our dog wedged between us, shaking and absolutely terrified while worrying about one of the cats having a stress-fit because some twat nearby likes thing that go 'Bang!' and has all the self-control of a toddler on speed.
Meanwhile, the local sports and social club, who host the (free) big town display each year give everyone plenty of notice about the date, starting time and duration, even posting letters to the houses in the streets surrounding the field. That I'm okay with, we can make sure our dog has been out to the garden before it start and get him settled and and the display only lasts 30 minutes, so we're not playing Russian roulette with random pops, whistles and bangs if he needs the garden between 4pm and midnight.
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u/SeaweedOk9985 Nov 14 '24
Any tom dick and harry can buy a car on facebook marketplace and drive it into shopping centre.
We don't ban things simply because people can do things.
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u/Llama-Bear Nov 14 '24
Firearms.
Controlled industrial chemicals.
The vast majority of other explosives.
Drugs.
We kinda do ban them on that basis.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 Nov 14 '24
Communities can band together to get a small local display put on.
You'd be surprised at what kind of legal stuff you have to get through to organise an event like this.
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u/Unhappy_Smoke1926 Nov 14 '24
Pandas shouldn't really be here, should they? They should be in the wild.
This is an issue about care. If the panda has been transplanted to Edinburgh and died it's because they haven't built the correct enclosure etc. It's mother also died, so they're clearly doing something wrong and trying to blame external factors.
For the record I don't like fireworks, but I really don't like zoos.
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u/cc0011 Nov 14 '24
Sadly, for conservation reasons, we very much need captive populations of species. Also it should be a point of pride for the UK that we have such high quality zoological institutions, that are responsible for housing these animals, and running captive breeding programmes
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u/SomniaStellae Nov 14 '24
Pandas shouldn't really be here, should they? They should be in the wild.
I don't like animals which are common being in zoo's. However Red Panda's are endangered, with less than 10,000 though to be in the wild. Many zoo's have established breeding and conservation programmes.
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u/TobblyWobbly Nov 14 '24
But it's not just pandas this happens to. It's just that they're cute and get publicity.
I hate zoos, too, but this isn't a one off.
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u/hurtloam Nov 14 '24
Wee soul was a red panda. The 2 panda pandas have gone back to China.
A red panda is a kind of skunky, raccoon type thing.
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Nov 14 '24
Thing is it's not just 1 night of fireworks you also have other cultures celebrating their traditions with fireworks. There have been fireworks going off in my area literally every day from Halloween until just the other day.
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u/FloydEGag Nov 14 '24
This is it, where I live in London it’s almost every night from Halloween through to Chinese New Year. Admittedly a lot of it will just be dickheads but fireworks are so much more easily available at this general time of year.
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u/RaymondBumcheese Nov 14 '24
Its less a desire to ban everything and more having to face up to the choice that we are either a nation of animal lovers or we aren't.
Pets and wildlife fucking hate them and we either do something about that or we don't.
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u/cc0011 Nov 14 '24
Having worked for a number of animal charities… we very much are not a nation of animal lovers. We could be described as a nation of dog lovers, with small pockets of love for other animals. Thats about it
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u/TheAdamena Nov 14 '24
we are either a nation of animal lovers or we aren't.
We're absolutely not lol
Cats and dogs are about as far as that love goes, and even then.
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u/oktimeforplanz Nov 14 '24
Fireworks literally do not need to make a bang though - silent fireworks exist - and it's the noise that's the problem.
I don't really give a fuck about preserving a folk festival or any tradition at all in its precise current format of loud explosions because some people like a big noise.
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u/Merpedy Nov 14 '24
Even silent fireworks make some noise. It’s muffled and my dogs seem to react to them a lot better but still noise that could affect you or animals negatively if close enough and there’s a large number of fireworks being set off
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u/oktimeforplanz Nov 14 '24
Frankly I'd ban them all outside of pre-arranged displays run by people who know what they're doing, but since allegedly some people's mental health hinges on being able to set off fireworks from their garden (?!), then banning the ones that make an artificially loud noise is the next best thing.
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u/jflb96 Devon Nov 14 '24
If your mental health depends that strongly on fireworks, you can go on a course and become the trained setter-offer for the local display
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u/Astriania Nov 14 '24
silent fireworks exist
Yes and they're shit.
Next up - a silent Metallica concert. Silent guitars exist, and it's the noise that's the problem, why can't you music enjoyers just enjoy the experience quietly?
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u/cc0011 Nov 14 '24
Stick to the one night that is actually the celebration
Make it so they can’t be sold for personal use/they can only be used at organised shows
Only sell the noiseless ones
There are plenty of ways to still celebrate it, while also removing the annoying af aspects. It’s been roughly 3 weeks now of every night being fireworks going off. Personal favourite was the person letting them off on a random night, at gone midnight.
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u/Alert-One-Two United Kingdom Nov 14 '24
There's alternative options that do not make loud noises. Both traditional fireworks that are silent/low noise/quiet and other non-fireworks options such as drone displays.
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u/Exotic-Intention-596 Nov 14 '24
I think this too although I have PTSD and I don’t like fireworks, we kinda have nothing really to look forward too here now I mean Christmas is around the corner and that’s been turned into a whole has the most money festival. Christmas shite being sold from September it’s completely been ruined by consumerism.
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u/MultiMidden Nov 14 '24
Perhaps we can replace it with Banmas as the national folk festival as banning things seems to be the favourite pastime of many Brits?
Although Halloween is said to originate in the British Isles it has been totally Americanised, I'm old enough to remember ET at the cinema as a kid and we were introduced to the concept of 'trick or treat'. Kind of ironic that there'll people who want to see fireworks banned but are totally cool with kids in effect 'demanding with menaces'. Personally speaking so long as it's done sensibly I'm fine with both (I'm also old enough to remember buying fireworks legally as a 16-17 year old and I'm sure it was less of problem back then)
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u/Tenk-o Nov 14 '24
True, it feels kinda sad that many other countries have big festivals with lots of lights and food and music but ours feel very small and 'council dependant'. I think I would be happy with them banning fireworks if the government made more of an effort promoting other holidays and funding them to be more extravagant, the cold winter nights do need more light festivals and markets. But we just don't have the money anymore (and i'd argue a very prevalent 'guilt' culture that if, god forbid, you take your kid out late and they're tired at school the next day then you're gonna get a condescending email for your negligence).
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u/X_Trisarahtops_X Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
I don't think many reasonable people are calling for a ban. People are calling for others not to be setting off fireworks in unsafe manners literally in the streets in uncontrolled ways. I've seen the videos of Edinburgh on bonfire night on the BBC link.
Absolutely feral and entirely unsafe, including having firefighters attacked. There's no space for that kind of behaviour, including on bonfire night.
I adore bonfire night. I'm local to lewes which has one of the biggest bonfire events in the uk and I love it. Its a big night here.
But the videos coming out of Edinburgh are properly wild and shouldn't be tolerated.
Edit: amended wording to reflect what I meant more accurately.
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u/Mattehzoar Nov 14 '24
I don't think anyone's calling for a ban.
"RZSS deputy chief executive Ben Supple has backed calls for a ban on the sale of fireworks to the public."
3rd sentence if you'd have clicked the article.
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u/-----1 Nov 14 '24
Do you honestly think the cretins letting fireworks off seemingly randomly for 2 weeks either side are doing so because they want to celebrate a folk festival?
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u/King_of_East_Anglia Nov 14 '24
As unfortunate as this very much is, the needs and wants of those who enjoy hearing the loud bangy sounds do come before the suffering and lives of animals such as this, or those with PTSD, etc
Yes.
There are of course balances, but you can't curtail your entire society and culture to the possible risks of the few to this level of extremes. You can't ban everything that can harm others in any capacity. It would lead to a society of authoritarianism, would be boring, and would have a negative effect like being an over protective parent who never lets their child experience anything or grow tough.
Redditors really are such strange little Neo-Puritans. They would have been running around banning Christmas and telling people off for drinking in the 17th century.
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u/Unidain Nov 14 '24
but you can't curtail your entire society
No one is saying we need to curtail our entire society, what a ridiculous Strawman.
There are already laws and regulations around acceptable noise levels. All anyone is asking is to extend them .
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u/RisKQuay Nov 14 '24
The idea goes to fire though, with people advocating for banning them entirely. I feel like there could be a middle ground with restricting fireworks to a few nights of the year - e.g. Diwali, Bonfire Night, New Years Eve, etcetera.
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u/ramxquake Nov 14 '24
"We don't want to ban everything. Just this. And that. And that as well. And maybe that. And..."
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u/MotoMkali Nov 14 '24
Just limit fireworks to specific dates.
Bonfire Night (and the Saturday after), Diwali, New Years Eve, Eid and Chinese New Years. You do not need fireworks on any other date.
And honestly they make low noise fireworks, just don't have the ones that give people tinnitus on the ground watching them and then you will have far fewer of these animal deaths.
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u/MultiMidden Nov 14 '24
Neo-Puritans I love it, it's spot on! Elsewhere I suggested having Banmas as the new British national holiday.
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u/Kind-County9767 Nov 14 '24
Can we ban dogs too? They make a lot of loud bangy barking noise all the time where people live.
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u/fleapuppy Nov 14 '24
If you can find a dog as loud as a firework I’ll be impressed
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u/Kind-County9767 Nov 14 '24
Fireworks don't tend to go off literally next to your house all times of the day all year round. From living in flats dogs can absolutely be louder than fireworks
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u/donalmacc Scotland Nov 14 '24
Only if we ban kids. I’ve been woken far more by my neighbours grandkids than by any of the dogs on my street.
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u/Jazzlike-Mistake2764 Nov 14 '24
Christmas generates a load of waste every year
Should we ban Christmas?
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u/Hogminn Tyne and Wear Nov 14 '24
Basic empathy hasn't really been the British public's strong suit for a long time
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u/ramxquake Nov 14 '24
If anything we're over empathetic. Always feeling sorry for everyone. So open minded our brains have fallen out.
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u/Caridor Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
There are ways of reaching a compromise though.
For example, ban fireworks from the general public and only have official fire works displays put on by fire service or other experts. This way, they can be well advertised and those with PTSD can just wear headphones for 20 minutes.
I'm not unempathetic but I do think that fireworks displays bring enough joy to people that we shouldn't entirely shut them down for the sake of so few and the solution so easy.
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u/Acrobatic-Record26 Nov 14 '24
A compromise would be to implement a buffer zone, 1-2 miles, around zoos/animal shelters/wildlife reserves, and restrict launch directions to lower the impact on the large concentrations of animals.
Unfortunately for household pets, only half of households in the UK have a pet and only half of those according to the RSPCA show signs of distress over fireworks so that's a quarter of all households. I don't think three quarters of the country want to give up fireworks night for the sake of the other quarter.
It's a shame. There are alternatives laser or drone shows but we've spent the last few decades promoting individualism over collective social good so sorry pets of the UK
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u/Caephon Nov 14 '24
Just ban the sale of fireworks to the general public and only to regulated bodies licensed to put on fireworks shows, problem solved.
Furthermore, it’s clear that large segments of the British population simply cannot be trusted with explosives of any variety, I experience this every year as a police officer when the local scum think it’s hilarious to fire rockets at us, each other, ambulance crews and the fire service along with other members of the public just going about their business.
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Nov 14 '24
Yeah I dont understand why this isn’t implemented yet, fireworks for private Guy Fawkes, Diwali, NYE etc.
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u/takesthebiscuit Aberdeenshire Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Im 99.9% sure that I can count on no hands the number of public* Diwali displays that take place within 100miles of me.
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u/headphones1 Nov 14 '24
pubic Diwali displays
Not sure if Diwali is about displaying pubes.
On a serious note, I would wager that registered public displays for Diwali would start to appear if you're required to do so in order to set off fireworks. Unless I'm missing something?
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u/qwop271828 south coast represent Nov 14 '24
This is more a function of the size and population of aberdeenshire than anything else - there were public diwali fireworks in edinburgh and glasgow this year though I appreciate they are probably over 100 miles away from you.
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u/JB_UK Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Just ban the sale of fireworks to the general public and only to regulated bodies licensed to put on fireworks shows, problem solved.
Regulating festivals means killing them, we have already seen that in the way that most cities banned local bonfire nights, then put on a single large show, then ran out of money or ran it incompetently, then shut it down.
Britain is already an extremely quiet place by the standards of other countries, and has unusually few public festivals. God knows what the people on these threads would make of living in some southern European countries, with their awful, loud displays of culture and fellow feeling.
We ban cricket clubs which have existed for hundreds of years, we ban pubs and shops which have been there for hundreds of years, we’ve completely killed off nearly all our historic festivals, we ban outdoor eating in the centre of London because the resident’s don’t like it! I think broadly speaking if you never want to see anyone outside your house or hear anything from inside your house, move to the countryside and get double glazing.
Maybe we should limit sales of non-silent fireworks except for a week before some festivities, but I really think we are a long way down a slippery slope, and seeing the slow death of public life because it is so difficult to do anything. I’ll support these rules if we all agree to scrap most of the risk assessments and other nonsense paperwork volunteers have to do, and introduce guaranteed rights to open pubs or shops.
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u/Freddichio Nov 14 '24
We ban cricket clubs which have existed for hundreds of years, we ban pubs and shops which have been there for hundreds of years, we’ve completely killed off nearly all our historic festivals, we ban outdoor eating in the centre of London because the resident’s don’t like it!
We didn't ban cricket clubs, if you're talking about the story I think you are the Cricket Club banned people hitting sixes because they were in the middle of a load of houses and the sixes kept causing damage (that the cricket club were responsible for).
Which "pubs and shops" have we actively banned that wasn't for good reason? Do you just mean "because they're causing noise above and beyond the legal guidelines regularly" - because in that case you can argue that the guidelines are too harsh, but ultimately doesn't happen unless you repeatedly break the rules.
And I find absolutely nothing that indicates that outdoor eating has been banned in London, despite googling a few different variations of those words to try and find the story.
Based on this, it sounds to me like you think anything closing or having restrictions implemented - even if self-inflicted, like the Cricket Club introducing their own rule - is "being banned", and that's not true at all.
We don't ban things for the sake of it, when we do ban things - and, as mentioned, not as often as your examples imply - it's always for a particular reason.
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u/takesthebiscuit Aberdeenshire Nov 14 '24
Nothing gets Banned but the constant ratchet up of risk assessments causes the volunteers who put on events to simply throw in the towels
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u/RockDrill Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Many pubs and venues have had their operations stopped or restricted because of residents' complaints, even when the venue has been around far longer than the residents or their homes. Councils allow homes to be built near entertainment venues without sufficient noise mitigation and then support noise complaints from people who moved to live next to a noisy business. Venue owners are then stuck with the responsibility to install noise mitigation in their property (expensive and sometimes impossible in an existing building) and many are forced to stop having entertainment or close. UK society loses yet another culture spot and all that's left is getting drunk.
Noise complaints ‘decimating UK’s cultural history’ - The Morning Advertiser
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u/JB_UK Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Which "pubs and shops" have we actively banned that wasn't for good reason?
Pubs and shops are banned in the vast majority of the country through the planning system. In old housing estates there were pubs and shops, which have now been converted to housing, and are banned from being converted back. In new housing estates shops and pubs are banned under residential zoning. In existing estates you can't open a shop, except in a tiny corral 15 minutes walk from much of the surrounding houses, along a main road filled with through traffic. Go to many other countries and you will see how weird our situation is.
And I find absolutely nothing that indicates that outdoor eating has been banned in London
Or more general articles about the sanitization of the area:
https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/soho-bars-fed-up-neighbours-24728172
Cricket pitches are more about attempted bans, but there are dozens of cases. Recently for example Colehill Cricket Club closed to adult cricket, and only reopened because there was a public campaign to raise tens of thousands of pounds to build nets around the pitch. Another case was Shamley Green Cricket Club, where a neighbour complained the 15ft nets weren't high enough, and tried to get an injunction until they pulled them down and replaced them with 25ft high nets.
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u/Astriania Nov 14 '24
the Cricket Club banned people hitting sixes because they were in the middle of a load of houses
... that weren't there when the club started and certainly none of the people complaining lived there when the club started. It's exactly the same sort of thing - "something which has been going on since long before I moved here is a bit annoying to me, I will get it banned".
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u/Marxist_In_Practice Nov 14 '24
So if you don't want to hand any random person on the street explosives you're some killjoy who hates culture now? What's next, not giving people access to nerve gas is woke?
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u/bigjoeandphantom3O9 Nov 14 '24
Spot on, there's a section of the population desperate to kill off any sense of visible and loud community events, be that pubs, clubs, festivals, or events like Bonfire Night.
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u/De_Dominator69 Nov 14 '24
I think rather than ban them outright regulate them, have them require a licence of some sort, make it so they can only be set off in specified areas and specified times (not within X distance of a Zoo for example).
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u/OrangeSodaMoustache Nov 14 '24
How's that going to be enforced, exactly? Dodgy shops and local ne'er-do-wells will flog them on Whatsapp and Facebook to teenagers anyway. Just make it so only councils and organised groups can use them for specific, authorised events. I don't know why every Tom, Dick, and Harry has to light them between 6pm-10pm every other night between October and January.
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u/ChickenPijja Nov 14 '24
I believe that fireworks are a licenced product to sell similar to alcohol, so if a dodgy shop is selling to teenagers, or selling under the counter etc then they should be facing trading standards enforcement. I know that any business premises that can hold stock(even if they don't have any they remain on file for a few years) of fireworks has to be registered specifically with fire departments as they are counted as a firearm and so need specialist crews to attend.
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u/TheScarecrow__ Nov 14 '24
Create an unenforceable regulatory regime so that responsible people decide not to bother and scrotes carry on regardless. The British way.
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u/Rathion_North Nov 14 '24
Ban more things? Jesus Christ, must the government invade every part of our lives, telling us what we can and cannot do?
People always say the "thin edge of the wedge" is a fallacy, but at every turn it turns out to be true. Give someone an inch and they'll take it a mile.
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u/Wrong_Adhesiveness87 Nov 14 '24
NZ does this. Think you can buy only certain kinds on only 3 days a year. Some dumbass kid blew off his hand and the firemen cracked the shits over all the fires, ambos dealing with injuries. Now we basically just have the planned ones by councils and local groups. Apparently less hands have been blown off since.
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u/ShowMeYourPapers Nov 14 '24
It can't be impossible to make the bloody things quieter though, can it?
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Nov 14 '24
We had some near me last night… it wasn’t overly late but completely unnecessary now after Guy Fawkes night. There’s a lot of wildlife in this area and people are so inconsiderate.
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u/Rekyht Hampshire Nov 14 '24
Reddits opinions on fireworks might be further detached from reality than any of the most upvoted common political takes tbh
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u/Sorry-Transition-780 Nov 14 '24
Honestly reading some of these, if you put half these people in Germany at new years, they'd think it was world war 3. Mfs just launching rockets left, right and centre and so much smoke in the city centre you can only see 20m in front of you.
Perhaps there's something to be said about banning them or telling people not to use them close to zoos, for obvious reasons, but it's weird to want to ban them absolutely over this.
We have levels of acceptable risk formed by public consensus, I think most people accept the risk from fireworks for a few nights a year. Even if it's unpleasant to a lot of people.
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u/idly Nov 14 '24
to be fair, part of the reason Germany is so crazy at new years is because it's only legal to buy them at that time, so it actually is limited to a few nights a year
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u/Sorry-Transition-780 Nov 14 '24
Yeah and it's cultural too like something just makes them go mental for fireworks.
You've got people sneaking in even bigger fireworks from eastern Europe just to make an even bigger boom in their garden lmao
That being said they do seem to have a lot of deaths due to fireworks, it's cool as a concept but I'd imagine if we had the same laws here it'd be armageddon. There is definitely a healthy middle ground... Somewhere
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u/A_Town_Called_Malus Nov 14 '24
Same situation in Iceland at New Years, and there the sales of the fireworks fund their search and rescue.
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u/OrangeSodaMoustache Nov 14 '24
What kind of take is that? Just because things are worse somewhere else doesn't mean we shouldn't be making them better here.
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u/Zer0Templar Nov 14 '24
noone here is advocating for making things better tho lol, it's just outright bans.
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u/Sorry-Transition-780 Nov 14 '24
I was mainly just observing that the tolerance here is out of touch with the public and even further away from the rest of Europe. Wasn't making that serious of a point.
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u/Dangerous-Branch-749 Nov 14 '24
Honestly reading some of these, if you put half these people in Germany at new years, they'd think it was world war 3. Mfs just launching rockets left, right and centre and so much smoke in the city centre you can only see 20m in front of you.
I first heard about the anarchy of German NYE the other day, had no idea!
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u/FilthyRilthy Nov 14 '24
Its not just over this particular incident though is it. This happens every. single. year, and not just zoos. Thousands of animals, wildlife and pets alike are needlessly killed every year up and down the country, and lets not even mention the pollution and litter it leaves behind.
And just generally fireworks fly in the face of the sentiment towards looking after this planet before it tips over the point of no return in terms of climate.
But no, lets just keep calm and carry on with this foolish practice because "hurr durr been a tradition for hundreds of years"
Ban them to registered displays only and lets move into the modern age with something else already.
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u/MoodyStocking Nov 14 '24
I was in cologne for that one new years and holy shit I have never experienced anything like it, I think even that was an outlier but it was insane.
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u/cresssidaaa Nov 14 '24
Genuinely, I feel like I’m going crazy reading these comments
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Nov 14 '24
It helps to remember that most of these people struggle with shit in their lives for example making phone calls, not being able to figure out that you won't make friends by sitting in your room all day, poor personal hygiene, enough mental issues to fill a textbook.
We see a small section of the worlds population online. Even smaller depending on the echo chamber you are currently looking into.
Most of these people are mentally children. Unfortunately many of them are rather dim ones as well.
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u/AgainstThoseGrains Nov 14 '24
Redditors are the Puritans of the 21st Century.
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u/jeremybeadleshand Nov 14 '24
Except when it comes to weed when suddenly there should be no limitations whatsoever
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u/OldGodsAndNew Edinburgh Nov 14 '24
I could do without neds launching them at ambulance crews, random cars/houses and each other tbh
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u/Barune Nov 14 '24
It's a small minority of dickheads that set them off at all hours, all the time they are on sale. If it wasn't we'd have a hell of a lot more fireworks. The vast majority are considerate and only set a few off on bonfire night, or go to a display, or just don't bother.
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u/M90Motorway Nov 14 '24
Most of Reddit consists of self-absorbed basement dwellers. They don’t like fireworks therefore no one is allowed fireworks. It’s literally the mindset of a child yet it exists all over this site.
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u/Dabbles-In-Irony Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
The fifth picture of her being held made me tear up a little, she was so tiny. I hope her mama gets some extra love.
Edit: gosh it just gets worse. I didn’t read the whole article because I was too sad but I just read about her mama. I hope all the remaining red pandas are given extra love, snuggles, and treats.
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u/mysticpotatocolin Nov 14 '24
god the mum dying recently was just too much!! so gutted for the other red pandas and the workers at the zoo!!
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u/NagromNitsuj Nov 14 '24
For me the blame still sits with the super markets and other outlets who sell fireworks to the general public.
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u/WolfCola4 Nov 14 '24
If they legalised heroin today, Tesco would be running a "two wraps for a tenner" clubcard deal by tomorrow. We can't trust the private sector to regulate themselves based on morality. The government needs to force their hand with legislation.
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u/Sergeant_Fred_Colon Nov 14 '24
If they legalised heroin it would be 10 wraps for a tenner. Heroin is ridiculous cheap to make its only expensive because its illegal.
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u/QuantumR4ge Hampshire Nov 14 '24
That isn’t remotely true, prior to 2016 Tesco could have sold a LOT of drugs openly and legally, why didn’t they? Including potent opioids
Maybe its more complicated than you think. Its not law to restrict energy drinks from under 16s yet they choose to restrict it.
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u/Longjumping_Stand889 Nov 14 '24
This subreddit seems to view fireworks as a class issue which is odd. Plenty of middle class people set them off too and Edinburgh Zoo is in a posh part of the city.
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u/AgainstThoseGrains Nov 14 '24
Many Redditors can't resist getting a bit of classism in against the 'dumb poors' despite being pearl clutchers for anything else. You'll not find a more out of touch community on the internet.
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u/pendulum1997 Scotland Nov 14 '24
In Edinburgh the 'posh' bits are never more than a 10 minute walk away from the shit holes. Edinburgh Zoo is no different and is surrounded by areas that were effected by what were essentially riots. Hardly surprising that Zoo animals were affected
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u/Longjumping_Stand889 Nov 14 '24
Niddrie is on the other side of the city, none of the other hotspots are anywhere nearby, certainly not within a ten minute walk.
Hardly surprising that Zoo animals were affected
What do you think I'm claiming here, that the animals weren't affected because the fireworks were set off by middle class folk? There's no question the fireworks affected the animals.
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u/pendulum1997 Scotland Nov 14 '24
Niddrie is on the other side of the city, none of the other hotspots are anywhere nearby, certainly not within a ten minute walk.
Bus routes were cancelled all over the city due to arseholes with fireworks and that included Clermiston, Stenhouse and Saughton. The biggest riots were on Calder road and that made the Niddrons look like saints.
My point is the Zoo is surrounded by areas where anti social behaviour was occurring at all hours and over the course of several days, undoubtably affecting animals.
I don't see it as a class issue either but your Murrayfield yah yahs aren't sporadically setting off the loudest fireworks you can lay your hands on well into the night.
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u/LCFCgamer Nov 14 '24
Only silent fireworks should be sold to the public
Arguably displays too, but that's a separate argument
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u/MultiMidden Nov 14 '24
Only silent fireworks should be sold to the public
That is the sensible approach to this instead of the Great British Ban Fest. That I suspect would make them less interesting for the (mainly) teenage lads who start letting them off in public as soon as they're available (notice how you don't hear whilstling rockets at random times). I remember when bangers were still legal and that's what a lot of teenagers would have bought by default, cheap and make a loud bang.
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u/Turbulent-Grade-3559 Nov 14 '24
When low bang fire works exist (which they do) there is no need for the loud variety that scare animals and babies. Every year it’s the same. Fireworks night and Diwali mean we get a lot in a compressed space, my dog is always petrified. Of course celebrate but again, low bang fireworks exist. Then it’s into new years where there’s always some bastard who thinks it’s hilarious to light them off every day from Christmas through to march 31st.
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u/eairy Nov 14 '24
The bang is half the point.
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u/Distinct-Cat4268 Lancashire Nov 14 '24
Okay but justify why loud bangs are needed when animals, people with ptsd, autistic and other noise sensitivity folks have to suffer.
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u/Turbulent-Grade-3559 Nov 14 '24
Sure but why cause problems to animals and little little kids when we have the means not to, also nobody has an issue for one night in November 5 and Diwali. It’s the guys that do a whole display every night got 6 months of the year after
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u/ItWasTheChuauaha Nov 14 '24
Our sweet rabbit died due to fireworks this year. It's heartbreaking.
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u/Slow_Ball9510 Nov 14 '24
This isn't the fault of fireworks. This is the fault of the zoo for not taking care of the animal. The enclosure should have been soundproofed.
Redditors get such a hard-on for banning stuff. If we banned every little thing that someone got upset about, there would be nothing left.
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u/zakkers20 Essex Nov 14 '24
The baby panda is just an example of the impact of the issue and is generating conversation because it’s cute. If that impact were limited to this single animal then there would not be a reasonable argument for the banning and regulation of fireworks because yes, zoos could invest more into soundproofing for this animal.
The problem is that far more animals and people are affected by fireworks and there is not a cost effective solution to protect them. It is not reasonable or even possible to invest in soundproofing for a large group of people, domesticated animals and wildlife.
So the options are either for these affected groups to either suck it up or to somehow reduce the number of fireworks (or rather the noise created by the fireworks as this is the actual issue). The compromise generally put forward is not a universal ban but stronger regulation so that fireworks become more predictable (only one or two nights where possible) and/or quieter. This minimises the negative impact while continuing to support the best parts of fireworks - the larger, but more isolated, community events where people can really be wowed, rather than the disappointing but expensive four fireworks dad’s mate sets off in his back garden for two weeks. Anyone unwilling to even consider this compromise on either side is just being unreasonable.
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u/ShowMeYourPapers Nov 14 '24
Some fireworks make a reasonably quiet crackling sound, others are like a fucking massive bomb going off. Why the fuck do they have to sound like a WW1 battlefield?
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u/Thunderous71 Nov 14 '24
Well keeping animals in cages near cities isn't the best habitat for them lets face it.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Tie-740 Nov 14 '24
True, but unfortunately their natural habitats have been destroyed and there are only a few thousand red pandas left in the wild. Breeding endangered animals in captivity can save them from extinction.
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u/philipwhiuk London Nov 15 '24
But Scotland is miles from their natural habitat too. There’s clearly no plan to reintroduce Scottish pandas to the wild. It’s just tourism
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u/Scr1mmyBingus Nov 14 '24
I’m kind of torn on this one. I have a dog who doesn’t mind fireworks too much (she grew up on a farm that did shooting) but the 7th consecutive night gets a bit much for her.
But I also don’t know if my right to own a dog is greater than the right of someone who wants to enjoy fireworks.
If we ban everything my dog doesn’t like and upsets her, then we will lose autum leaves, worming tablets and Amazon delivery drivers.
I know this is Reddit and we have to be weirdly autistic puritans about everything, but a compromise would probably be organised displays that can be noisy a few nights a year. And only a certain number in a given area, and the public can only buy silent fireworks.
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u/bUddy284 Nov 14 '24
Comments really show how different reddit is to the rest of the UK
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u/machinehead332 Nov 14 '24
I don’t see why they just can’t do silent or at least quieter fireworks, surely the pretty lights in the sky are still fun without the loud bangs?
There’s too many people with the “I can do what I want regardless of how it affects others” attitude.
Then there’s the “it’s just one day” brigade, but it’s never just one day, it’s 2 weeks before and after the day.
Also, the pollution the day after? How smoggy it is, all this talk of caring for the environment and then we have a big day of fires and explosives in the air.
I came to realise how selfish people are when we had that scorching summer a couple years ago and there was talk of hosepipe bans, the amount of people on social media saying “I pay for water I’ll use it how I please”. There is just no hope for humanity with how many selfish twats there are, I notice it everywhere now.
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u/Cyanopicacooki Lothian Nov 14 '24
The zoo is not far from two of the areas that had particularly bad trouble with fireworks this year. I live considerably further away and was seriously disturbed by the discharges.
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u/littleloucc Nov 14 '24
As tragic as it is, Edinburgh Zoo needs to take some of the blame here. Edinburgh is a big city, and even without personal use there will have been a lot of large organised fireworks displays. There could also be other noisy events, like protests, parties, sirens etc. Why didn't the zoo have adequate sheltered quiet spaces for easily-stressed animals? Especially for a young kit that had recently lost its mother for unknown reasons.
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u/Astriania Nov 14 '24
What do the fun police actually want here? No fireworks ever?
This example is from fireworks on Bonfire Night which would obviously be a designated "ok to use" day, and although the article doesn't say I expect it's from fireworks in an organised display (almost all of the biggest and loudest ones are). An exclusion zone would cover most of the city, and there will be other institutions that claim "if them, why not us" so everyone who doesn't live in the middle of nowhere would end up in an exclusion zone.
This outcome is unfortunate but I don't think it's worth giving up all fireworks to save an occasional animal in a zoo.
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u/thewritingreservist Nov 14 '24
This is fucking devastating to think about. Really not good to read this so early in the day.
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u/eltrotter Nov 14 '24
Very sad. It scares the shit out of my cat. I'd be happy to never see a firework again if it means that wildlife doesn't get disrupted by them.
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u/Wonderful_Dingo3391 Nov 14 '24
I'd love to see their evidence that it was the fireworks that caused an animal to choke on its vomit. Bit of a stretch, but they probably think this is a good opportunity to make a political point.
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u/HeartyBeast London Nov 14 '24
Cue all the posts from pet owners on Facebook who hate fireworks. Pet owners who were totally unaware that fireworks existed when they bought their pets.
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u/Magurndy Nov 14 '24
Just license it already. Totally fine with planned displays that give people a chance to protect vulnerable people and animals. Someone set some off the other day at about 12.30 at night, well after Nov 5th and Diwali.
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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland Nov 14 '24 edited Nov 14 '24
Alternate Sources
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