Semi-Weekly Discussion Thread - December 16, 2024

[u/tuesday_mod]

INTRODUCTION

/r/tuesday is a political discussion sub for the right side of the political spectrum - from the center to the traditional/standard right (but not alt-right!) However, we're going for a big tent approach and welcome anyone with nuanced and non-standard views. We encourage dissents and discourse as long as it is accompanied with facts and evidence and is done in good faith and in a polite and respectful manner.

PURPOSE OF THE DISCUSSION THREAD

Like in r/neoliberal and r/neoconnwo, you can talk about anything you want in the Discussion Thread. So, socialize with other people, talk about politics and conservatism, tell us about your day, shitpost or literally anything under the sun. In the DT, rules such as "stay on topic" and "no Shitposting/Memes/Politician-focused comments" don't apply.

It is my hope that we can foster a sense of community through the Discussion Thread.

IMAGE FLAIRS

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The list of previous effort posts can be found here

Previous Discussion Thread

[u/psunavy03]

So Michael Vick recently got a head coaching job. Other football-related subs are losing their minds. Everything that I've read indicates he's been a changed man since he got out of prison, and has been trying to right his past wrongs and promote animal welfare.

But quote the Sermon on the Mount about being judged by the standard you judge others on those same subs, and prepare to be downvoted into the ground. The human race really does have a problem with the redemption of people who once did something fucking awful. Some people just want to be able to shit on them in perpetuity, no matter how much they try to make amends.

[u/IndubitablyThoust → u/psunavy03]

I thought Redditors saw prison as a place to rehabilitate people instead of punishing them? Guess that wrong.

[u/Viper_ACR → u/IndubitablyThoust]

redditors are idiots

[u/TheGentlemanlyMan → u/Viper_ACR]

An evergreen sentiment

[u/DerrickWhiteMVP → u/psunavy03]

Good redemption arc. People make mistakes, especially those who don’t know they’re making a mistake. Dog fighting and cock fighting can be cultural things that, if you grow up around it, you don’t understand how awful it is. He learned, did his time and appears to be a changed man for the better. I’m happy for him, hope he succeeds and is seen as a good story for people that they can always improve themselves.

[u/Viper_ACR → u/psunavy03]

Vick earned his redemption IMO.

[u/Mexatt → u/psunavy03]

There are a lot of people out there with an intense desire to be cruel to others but who need some excuse to do so. They ultimately think of themselves as 'good', so they look for acceptable targets for their cruelty.

[u/haldir2012 → u/psunavy03]

For public figures, I'm suspicious of a PR team creating an accurate facsimile of remorse in the media. So even if all the articles I read say he's a changed man, I'm not sure if I should believe it. That being said, the same applies in reverse - I don't know the guy in person so I can't be certain that he's still an asshole, so best to withhold judgment.

Separately - is there reason to believe a guy who was once a pro player is going to be a particularly gifted coach?

[u/kikikza → u/haldir2012]

On the second point, it very frequently happens (and also very frequently flops). Some very highly regarded coaches are former players in their sport.

Ironically, the best former-player-coaches usually had mostly unremarkable playing careers, and when the greats try to coach it usually flops (the only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head are Bill Russell as a player/head coach and Zinedine Zidane in soccer - Gretzky never coached a team to the playoffs conversely)

In baseball many of the most famous managers in history, including but not limited to Tony LaRussa, Casey Stengel, Joe Torre, Dusty Baker, and many, many more were former players. In basketball there was Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, even Bill Russell was a player/coach for a long time. I don't know football and hockey as well but it frequently occurs there as well.

[u/Vanderwoolf → u/kikikza]

I don't know football and hockey as well but it frequently occurs there as well.

Scotty Bowman won nine Stanley Cups as a coach (out of 13 trips) and never played a day in the NHL (through no fault of his own).

Fun Phil Jackson stat, as a coach his teams never had a losing record, and never missed the playoffs.

[u/idlewildsmoke → u/psunavy03]

He’s done everything the right way since his arrest. Did his time, kept his head down, seems like a good dude who is sorry for what he did. I’m a Falcons fan so somewhat biased.

[u/Soarin-Flyin → u/psunavy03]

Yeah he’s like one of the few who have shown actual remorse. I think Ray Rice is a good example too.