Semi-Weekly Discussion Thread - December 16, 2024

[u/tuesday_mod]

INTRODUCTION

/r/tuesday is a political discussion sub for the right side of the political spectrum - from the center to the traditional/standard right (but not alt-right!) However, we're going for a big tent approach and welcome anyone with nuanced and non-standard views. We encourage dissents and discourse as long as it is accompanied with facts and evidence and is done in good faith and in a polite and respectful manner.

PURPOSE OF THE DISCUSSION THREAD

Like in r/neoliberal and r/neoconnwo, you can talk about anything you want in the Discussion Thread. So, socialize with other people, talk about politics and conservatism, tell us about your day, shitpost or literally anything under the sun. In the DT, rules such as "stay on topic" and "no Shitposting/Memes/Politician-focused comments" don't apply.

It is my hope that we can foster a sense of community through the Discussion Thread.

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The list of previous effort posts can be found here

Previous Discussion Thread

[u/Bullet_Jesus]

Considering the discourse; what are peoples ideas for healthcare reform in this country? Are there any other countries that have systems that you think we could draw inspiration from? What are peoples thoughts on national solutions vs regional ones and their feasibility?

[u/psunavy03 → u/Bullet_Jesus]

The problem is that everyone wants American access to care (or access to care 10 years ago) combined with British/Commonwealth lack of having to pay for it. Someone has to pay. Bitch all you want about doctors making bank, but how many people can crack you open and sew you back up, or feed you chemicals, and then make you better instead of killing you? My parents are elderly, and they've been on and on lately about their providers complaining about the doctor shortage and how it's going to affect my generation when we get really old.

The meme I've seen going around recently jokes about the American, British, and Canadian healthcare systems:
* America: "The bill for your procedure is $15,000."
* Britain: "The wait for your procedure is 18 months."
* Canada: "Have you considered assisted suicide?"

Joking aside, you can't just wave your hands and get perfect on-demand socialized healthcare. No country has done that. So how to square that circle? Personally I lean towards a means-tested public option, or a public option for all supplemented by private insurance. But it's a bitch of a problem that insurance is a financial product designed to offload risk. And from a healthcare perspective, well, the risk is guaranteed. We're all eventually going to die of something. How do you insure that and stay in business without making ugly choices?

Edit: Also, no one wants to talk about the fact that we're a nation of fatasses, and what would need to happen to decrease overall mortality in the American population. And I may not be obese, but I have some standard middle-aged dadbod and I'm a beer and whiskey-lover and a gun collector. So I'm frankly not interested in following that rabbit hole to see where the busybodies take it, either. At some point, the joy I've gotten in my life may have shaved some time off its overall length, but that's fine. Because I enjoyed it more in the living of it.

[u/Bullet_Jesus → u/psunavy03]

There's definitely the classic issue of voters going "I want this service but I am unwilling to pay for it." Democrats seem married to the idea that the wealthy will just pay for everything and the GOP seems opposed to the idea of healthcare reform on principle.

Everyone agrees that there's a problem but no one can agree to a solution for fear that an reform might not lead to their preferred solution not being the end. Too many Dems approach healthcare as not a service to be provided but an inequality to be solved. Like, bad outcomes don't matter as long as rich and poor suffer equally. I can sympathize with the idea that being rich shouldn't allow you to get skipped over other's who more pressingly need the care but at that point we should be increasing supply rather than controlling demand.

It's a perfect environment for the GOP to take the lead on reform but the Dems adoption of stuff like he individual seems to have broke them. The mandate was originally a conservative idea, that would serve as an alternative to single payer but becasue the dems were trying to implement it the GOP had to oppose it. I get that it is more complicated than that, the ACA was more than the mandate but the farce of 2017 really revealed that the GOP was even more divided over healthcare than the Dems.

I think we're increasingly heading to a single-payer world. I know people suggest a public option or insurer regulation as alternatives but what is the difference between that and single-payer at that point? A public option cannot go bust as it is run by the state, insurance companies cannot compete with that, and regulating the insurance companies basically just turns them into a fragmented single-payer system. TBF everyone being in one mandatory pool is basically the most stable insurance. Even then this does nothing to fix the 50 atomized state system we have and there's nothing the federal government can do about that.

As for national health, I think plenty of people talk about how fat the country is, it's often brought up as an explanation for why we send so much on healthcare and have such poor outcomes in the end, as if the US is the only fat country in the world. It's not really a productive direction to take the conversation though. Politicians have been trying to get Americans healthier since the 60's and it has only gotten worse ever decade. It's only reversed with the ongoing usage of GLP-1 agonists. It would take some truly draconian laws to get people to change their habits. Alcohol and tobacco prohibition and probably limits on how much "high calorie" food you can buy, all with the goal of forcing people back to like 1920's diets.

[u/psunavy03 → u/Bullet_Jesus]

Arguably Ozempic et al could potentially avoid said draconian laws, IF we as a society are willing to subsidize them.

[u/Bullet_Jesus → u/psunavy03]

Personally I'm sceptical of the long term benefits of Ozempic but looking at the past, it probably is the only realistic solution to the obesity epidemic at this point.