Perspective on Hell

[u/GABERATOR10]

Non-Christian here, but was wondering to get some thought on my perspective of hell (or what would be hell).

Hell is an eternal state of nature that exists as a natural consequence of God’s absence. It’s not some fiery pit of divine punishment, but a realm where God’s presence is completely withdrawn. Without God’s order or grace, individuals are left to live in a state ruled entirely by their unrestrained desires and sins. Think of it like a Hobbesian state of nature—chaotic, selfish, and full of conflict. Sin becomes the dominant force, leading to perpetual dissatisfaction and alienation as people experience the emptiness of a life disconnected from God. It’s eternal, but it’s not about active torture or punishment. The suffering comes naturally from the absence of God and the chaos that follows when sin is left unchecked. People are left to fully experience the outcome of their choices without divine intervention or any hope of reconciliation.

[u/setst777]

While I agree that the unredeemed will suffer because of their own sinfulness, the Scriptures also describe God's involvement with the torment and punishment they receive.

Romans 2:3 Since you judge others for the same things you practice, how will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing wrath for yourself in the day of wrath, revelation, and the righteous judgment of God; 6 who “will pay back to everyone according to their works:” [Psalm 62:12; Proverbs 24:12]

And those who knew God, and experienced the grace of God's salvation will suffer a worse punishment for falling away into deliberate sin than the unredeemed who rejected God's salvation from the start, or those who never fully understood the Gospel.

Hebrews 10:29-31 (WEB) 29 How much worse punishment do you think he will be judged worthy of who has trodden under-foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me. I will repay,” says the Lord. [Deuteronomy 32:35] Again, “The Lord will judge His people.” [Deuteronomy 32:36; Psalm 135:14] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[u/No_Leather_8155 → u/setst777]

Those verses are not talking about hell, they're talking about the discipline of God

[u/setst777 → u/No_Leather_8155]

That is an unusual interpretation considering that the Scriptures I quoted plainly use the following word:

"wrath"

"day of wrath"

"Judgment"

"Punishment"

"Vengeance"

[u/EmitLux → u/setst777]

None of those words are "hell" though.

Sure there is "a day" of "judgement" where there will be "punishment" and "wrath".

And then what?

[u/setst777 → u/EmitLux]

"Hell" or "Gehenna" are also used, along with many other descriptive terms and illustrations, all used to show that after the Judgment, the unredeemed will be cast outside to be punished forever.

Mark 9:42-50 (WEB) 42 Whoever will cause one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him if he were thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having your two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire, 44 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’ [Isaiah 66:24]

45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame, rather than having your two feet to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that will never be quenched – 46 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’

47 If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into God’s Kingdom with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire, 48 ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’ [Isaiah 66:24] 49

John 5:28-29 (WEB) 28 Don’t marvel at this, for the hour comes in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice, 29 and will come out; those who have done good, to the {{{resurrection of life}}}; and those who have done evil, to the {{{resurrection of judgment}}}.

Acts 24:14 I believe all things which are in the law and in the prophets; 15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Daniel 12:2 (WEB) 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and {{{everlasting contempt}}}.

Matthew 25:45-46 (WEB) 45 “Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’ 46 These will go away into {{{eternal punishment}}}, but the righteous into eternal life.”

[u/EmitLux → u/setst777]

Eternal punishment is just death right?

[u/setst777 → u/EmitLux]

Eternal Punishment is eternal conscious separation from God and His Spirit (eternal death), and also regret and torment according to their works in a place "Outside."

“Death” can mean physical death. "Death" can also mean separation of the sinner’s spirit from God’s presence forever.

 For instance, ever since Adam, all men sin, and so, all mankind is dead (separated), but not annihilated. Without salvation a person is separated from the life of God. The believer is restored to spiritual life because of the atoning work of Christ on the cross.

 John 5:24 (KJV) 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He who hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 John 3:16 Whoever believes may have eternal life.

Therefore, the word “death” is more than just the death of the body, but also means spiritual death, which means a separation from God by sin. Spiritual death is, therefore, a eternal destruction (to be irreversibly undone, separated) from God’s Presence, a place “Outside,” which is illustrated in many ways.

‘“Eternal destruction” from the presence of the Lord’ (2 Thessalonians 1:5-10) appears to be the same place as the Eternal Fire, Second Death (Revelation 21:8), the Lake of Fire (Revelation 14:9-11; 20:10), Outside and Outer Darkness, where the unredeemed are cast at the Judgement (Revelation 22:12-15).

Revelation 22:14-15 (WEB) 14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. 15 {{{Outside}}} are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Luke 13:28-29 (WEB) 28 There will be [future] weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in God’s Kingdom, and yourselves being thrown {{{outside}}}. 29 They will come from the east, west, north, and south, and will sit down in God’s Kingdom.”

Matthew 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and throw him into the {{{outer darkness}}}. That is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be [future place].

Matthew 25:30 (WEB) Throw out the unprofitable servant into the {{{outer darkness}}}, where [in that place] there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Matthew 8:11-12 (WEB) 11 I tell you that many will come from the east and the west, and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven, 12 but the children of the Kingdom will be thrown {{{outside}}} into the outer darkness. There will be (future) weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jude 1:13 (NIV) 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been {{{reserved forever}}}

There is no judgment for the Saved (John 3:18), but the unbelieving are judged already, and will be judged According To Their Works - you cannot be judged according to your works if all unbelievers just die anyway.

Revelation 20:12 (WEB) I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, {{{according to their works}}}.

[u/EmitLux → u/setst777]

Right, I guess we differ then on the mortality of the spirit. I believe the soul, the breath, is not eternal unless there is eternal life. I can't see any eternal conscious death/separation from God in any of those passages, except for Rev 20, which is not man but a devine being cast out.

Therefore, death means spiritual and physical.

What would change my mind is bibical evidence of eternal CONSCIOUS death that you claimed in your first paragraph.

[u/setst777 → u/EmitLux]

Those judged unworthy of the Kingdom are cast into outer darkness where, in that place, is weeping and gnashing of teeth. That is conscious torment after the Judgment.