Perspective on Hell

[u/GABERATOR10]

Non-Christian here, but was wondering to get some thought on my perspective of hell (or what would be hell).

Hell is an eternal state of nature that exists as a natural consequence of God’s absence. It’s not some fiery pit of divine punishment, but a realm where God’s presence is completely withdrawn. Without God’s order or grace, individuals are left to live in a state ruled entirely by their unrestrained desires and sins. Think of it like a Hobbesian state of nature—chaotic, selfish, and full of conflict. Sin becomes the dominant force, leading to perpetual dissatisfaction and alienation as people experience the emptiness of a life disconnected from God. It’s eternal, but it’s not about active torture or punishment. The suffering comes naturally from the absence of God and the chaos that follows when sin is left unchecked. People are left to fully experience the outcome of their choices without divine intervention or any hope of reconciliation.

[u/setst777]

While I agree that the unredeemed will suffer because of their own sinfulness, the Scriptures also describe God's involvement with the torment and punishment they receive.

Romans 2:3 Since you judge others for the same things you practice, how will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing wrath for yourself in the day of wrath, revelation, and the righteous judgment of God; 6 who “will pay back to everyone according to their works:” [Psalm 62:12; Proverbs 24:12]

And those who knew God, and experienced the grace of God's salvation will suffer a worse punishment for falling away into deliberate sin than the unredeemed who rejected God's salvation from the start, or those who never fully understood the Gospel.

Hebrews 10:29-31 (WEB) 29 How much worse punishment do you think he will be judged worthy of who has trodden under-foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me. I will repay,” says the Lord. [Deuteronomy 32:35] Again, “The Lord will judge His people.” [Deuteronomy 32:36; Psalm 135:14] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[u/No_Leather_8155 → u/setst777]

Those verses are not talking about hell, they're talking about the discipline of God

[u/setst777 → u/No_Leather_8155]

You wrote: ""

The "children of the kingdom" [the Jews are are judged] will be cast "outside" of God's Kingdom into outer darkness.

Matthew 8:11-12 (WEB) 11 I tell you that many will come from the east and the west, and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven, 12 but the {{{children of the Kingdom}}} will be thrown outside into the outer darkness. There will be (future) weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The unprofitable servants of God will be cast out - this is not discipline, but rather a rejection by God into judgement and punishment.

Matthew 22:13 Then the king said to {{{the servants}}}, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and throw him into the outer darkness. That is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be [future place].

Matthew 25:30 (WEB) Throw out the {{{unprofitable servant}}} into the outer darkness, where [in that place] there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Many will seek to enter salvation, and think they are saved, but they were not faithful.

Luke 13:24-29 ... 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will {{{try to enter}}} and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.

[u/No_Leather_8155 → u/setst777]

This is completely irrelevant, these verses are not referring to a group of people but rather non believers, when Jesus says "I never knew you" the word for knowing is Ginosko the same word used for John 17:3 that is, eternal life, and the word used in Romans that the ones God "foreknew" He predestined. These verses are referring to the people God never had relationship with

[u/setst777 → u/No_Leather_8155]

I never denied that there will be many people who think they are saved but served iniquity. These Christ never knew. There are others who are servants of God, but they did not use their talents wisely. They also will be cast out. Regarding "Romans 8:28-31," the ones God foreknew and makes special promises to are for those who are loving God "Romans 8:28."

Romans 8:28 (WEB) 28 We know that all things work together for good {{{for those who love God}}}, for those who are called according to his purpose.

1 Corinthians 2:9 (WEB) But as it is written, “Things which an eye didn’t see, and an ear didn’t hear, which didn’t enter into the heart of man, these God has prepared for {{{those who love him.}}}” [Isaiah 64:4]

Not everyone who believes in Lord Jesus, will remain faithful. Rather, just like the Jews who fell, Christians can also fall away and be cut off.

Romans 11:19-22 … 19 You will say then, “Branches [unfaithful Jews] were broken off, that I [a Gentile] might be grafted in.” 20 True; by their [Jews] unbelief they were broken off, and you [a Gentile] stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches [Jews who fell away], neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

2 Peter 1:8-11 Peter admonishing the believers: For if these things are yours and abound, you will not be idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is blind and near-sighted, {{{having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins}}}. 10 Therefore, {{{brothers and sisters,}}} be more diligent to make {{{your calling and election sure}}}; for, if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied an {{{entrance into}}} the Eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[u/No_Leather_8155 → u/setst777]

You've missed what I said, people who do not know God are not saved, God did not know those people, and yes Paul says "we who love God" but John says that we love God because HE FIRST loved us. In 1 Peter 2, those who have tasted his goodness are the ones who are saved as he says in verse 2 unto 3 that newborn babies desiring spiritual milk "IF INDEED you HAVE TASTED the goodness of God". By definition if you have believed you are faithful as John the apostle says in 1 John 5:4-5 "those who have believed have overcome the world" and "those who have been born of God have overcome the world" this is a fact about the person, it is not a future event that is to come, but a description of the believer that they HAVE overcome the world. Earlier in his letter he even tells us that the young men have overcome the evil one.

When it comes to the branches analogy, they are according to Jesus thrown into the fire. That is the point- men according to their flesh are going to produce bad fruits/ are unfruitful, that is why they must be born again. This goes into the different parable Jesus uses about the seeds onto different soil. The point of that parable is to know which soil is your heart, given that you have been chosen by God. A man cannot change the soil of their heart but only God can, fire is not Hell, but testing and trials as throughout the Old Testament and even New Testament, fire is used to describe God testing people and the discipline of God. In Romans Paul is talking to those who are prideful and arrogant against Israel, and guess what type of people God doesn't like? That's right the prideful and arrogant, "God opposed the proud, but gives grace to the humble"

Also you want to bring up Israel being cut off and bring up Romans, where in that VERY CHAPTER, Paul talks about how God will bring HIS PEOPLE back to Himself after the fullness of the Gentiles, so even within that chapter the "cutting off" is a temporary one, this reinforcing my previous point of how it's about God's discipline, not about eternal salvation