Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Lower Decks | 5x05 "Star Base 80?!"

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No.	Episode	Written By	Directed By	Release Date
5x05	"Star Base 80?!"	May Darmon	Bob Suarez	2024-11-14

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[u/just4browse]

I interpreted it very differently.

Mariner quitting didn’t feel empowering to me. She got sent to a dead end job, so she quit the career she loved. And sure, being space Indiana Jones is fun, but it’s not Mariner ever really wanted. Mariner wants to be in Starfleet, and I think the show wants me to want her to be there and with her friends. So to me, that ending felt empty.

Mariner quitting doesn’t even go against what her mother wanted. Transferring Mariner to Starbase 80 was a way of all but ending Mariner’s time in Starfleet. Hell, the reason Freeman’s upset about Mariner quitting is because, by that point, she had learned the truth and wanted to undo what she did. Quitting didn’t deny Freeman her initial plan.

So I don’t see it as an ending where Mariner is empowered by defying her mother. I see it as an ending where neither Mariner or Freeman get what they want, because by the time the misunderstanding is cleared up, it’s too late for Freeman to take back her poor reaction to it. And the drama is if/how Mariner will return.

But then it’s all resolved in 20 minutes so it’s a bit sloppy.

[u/PiLamdOd → u/just4browse]

The career Mariner loved was over the moment her mom signed the transfer order. Over the previous three seasons, including during that season's premier, they'd reiterated that Mariner is done in Starfleet if she leaves the Cerritos.

So Starbase 80 wasn't a dead end job. It was the waiting room before her inevitable discharge.

Mariner knew it. Freeman knew it. That was the point of transferring her. Choosing Starbase 80 was just to make Mariner's last days miserable.

The reason Mariner resigning is so empowering is because she is choosing to leave on her own terms instead of enduring an unjust punishment while she waits around to be kicked out of Starfleet. And at the same time, by resigning, she is denying her mom the satisfaction of getting to watch the discharge happen like she wanted.

The fact Mariner didn't even care about what her mom thought anymore, and just left without so much as a forwarding address, was the perfect final victory. Mariner didn't need or want her mom's approval anymore. Freeman realized too late that her selfishness and pride led her to destroy something truly precious.

How can you not be proud of Mariner there?

My only complaint is by the next episode Freeman couldn't care less about what she'd done or what happened to Mariner, and the episode ends by having Mariner take full responsibility while absolving Freeman of any guilt or wrongdoing.

[u/jukebox_jester → u/PiLamdOd]

God you just love being wrong.

So Starbase 80 wasn't a dead end job. It was the waiting room before her inevitable discharge.

Literally nothing about the season implied this.

Literally everything about Starbase 80 implied Dead End Job. Hence why her career would be over. Because she reached a dead end hence the name.

[u/PiLamdOd → u/jukebox_jester]

Literally nothing about the season implied this.

At the end of the season 3 premier, Admiral Freeman stated unequivocally that the Cerritos was still Mariner's last chance, setting up Mariner's whole season long plotline with Ransom where he gets to decide if she still remains in Starfleet.

https://imgur.com/a/1HdP4iG

This is reiterating the same message they've been reinforcing since season one.

https://imgur.com/a/KuU3uJr

The Cerritos being Mariner's last chance in Starfleet has been one of the most important throughlines for her character. Mariner, her father, and her mother, are all convinced Mariner will be kicked out of Starfleet without her mother protecting her.

[u/jukebox_jester → u/PiLamdOd]

Correct. Because after Cerritos/Starting with Starbase 80 her career will be a dead end. Do you really think that Mariner was just gonna chill fir a few days before being drummed out? Is that really the logic here? Like, legitimately?

[u/PiLamdOd → u/jukebox_jester]

A career dead end is when a position has no mobility and the worker is trapped there.

That's not what was going on with Starbase 80. Mariner's parents (and her hologram) were clear that if she left the Cerritos, she was going to get drummed out of Starfleet. Didn't matter where Freeman transferred her, Mariner's days were numbered. That's what her father meant when he said the Cerritos was her last chance.

Do you really think that Mariner was just gonna chill fir a few days before being drummed out? 

It was a foregone conclusion that no matter what she did, without her parents' protection, Mariner would do or say something that would get her kicked out in short order. That was the whole point of using a transfer as a method of revenge.

So instead of giving her mom the satisfaction, Mariner left on her own terms and denied her mom the final victory.

[u/jukebox_jester → u/PiLamdOd]

A career dead end is when a position has no mobility and the worker is trapped there.

That's not what was going on with Starbase 80.

Riiight. I forgot you didn't actually watch S3e9

My bad.

It was a foregone conclusion that no matter what she did, without her parents' protection, Mariner would do or say something that would get her kicked out in short order.

Except at Starbase 80. Literally 50% of it is a knife gang.

So instead of giving her mom the satisfaction, Mariner left on her own terms and denied her mom the final victory.

Still not what that was.

[u/PiLamdOd → u/jukebox_jester]

What part of: "The Cerritos is still your last chance," and: "But if she kicked me off the Cerritos, I would be done in Starfleet," is so hard to grasp?

The moment Freeman signed the transfer orders, it was a foregone conclusion that Mariner was going to get kicked out of Starfleet. The actual place she sent Mariner was irrelevant. Choosing the worst possible posting was purely to make Mariner's last days as miserable as possible.

[u/jukebox_jester → u/PiLamdOd]

What part of: "The Cerritos is still your last chance," and: "But if she kicked me off the Cerritos, I would be done in Starfleet," is so hard to grasp?

The part where any of that was anyone but Mariner's fault.

Also again you're obsessed with thinking she was just waiting in SB80 until the formal discharge came.

[u/PiLamdOd → u/jukebox_jester]

The part where any of that was anyone but Mariner's fault.

Considering Mariner did not purposely betray Freeman like she was accused of, being kicked off the ship/of Starfleet as revenge was not her fault.

Also again you're obsessed with thinking she was just waiting in SB80 until the formal discharge came.

Mariner didn't wait. In Freeman's call with the Starbase 80 commander, he said that Mariner turned in her resignation after an hour.

Mariner and Freeman both knew her career was over. They set that up in the season premier, as well as back in season 1. So there was no need for Mariner to stick around waiting for the inevitable and giving her mom the satisfaction or win.

[u/jukebox_jester → u/PiLamdOd]

Considering Mariner did not purposely betray Freeman like she was accused of, being kicked off the ship

Her wasting her last chance is her fault because she wasted many of her other chances as well. No one but Mariner decided to spend half a decade as insubordinate (albeit for justifiable untreated reasons)

So there was no need for Mariner to stick around waiting for the inevitable and giving her mom the satisfaction or win.

Or she could've turned her shit around, especially with what S5 established about Starbase 80

[u/PiLamdOd → u/jukebox_jester]

Her wasting her last chance is her fault because she wasted many of her other chances as well.

Except Mariner did not waste her last chance. She did not do what she was accused of.

Or she could've turned her shit around,

Both her mother and father made it clear in the season premier that the Cerritos was her last chance and she would be out of Starfleet if she went anywhere else.

"Where would you go? The Cerritos is still your last chance." - Admiral Freeman.

"Ensign Becket Mariner, I'm giving your full and final oversight to Commander Ransom. If you do in fact want to remain in Starfleet, it's going to be his call." - Captain Freeman.

There was no ambiguity there. If she leaves the Cerritos, it's a guarantee she's out of Starfleet.