Elon Musk publicized the names of government employees he wants to cut. It’s terrifying federal workers

[u/Dustypigjut]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/27/business/elon-musk-government-employees-targets/index.html

[u/ElectricalBook3]

The threat of actual socialism was a good counterbalance

Not saying that communism was a good thing

I think you don't know what either word means if you use socialism - when workers own the economy - interchangeably with communism - a moneyless, classless, stateless system which has never yet existed in history because every single place which called itself "communist" never gave up money, strengthened the state, and increased stratification based on political affiliation.

America has always been an oligarchy

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

And that's why its oligarchs responded to the 1933 New Deal with an attempted overthrow to install a "business-friendly dictatorship" and when they weren't hanged for that they spent billions over a century to indoctrinate the populace

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

[u/Musiclover4200 → u/ElectricalBook3]

I think you don't know what either word means if you use socialism - when workers own the economy - interchangeably with communism - a moneyless, classless, stateless system which has never yet existed in history

The older I get the more convinced I become that if any "perfect" system exists it's probably some blend of socialism/capitalism/communism IE:

Socialism for essentials such as housing/food/medicine

Capitalism for luxury goods and non essential industries, but still heavily regulated to prevent monopolies & cronyism

Communism on a local level as in literal communes where the goal is to be as self sufficient as possible by growing foods and crafting & generally working together to lower the environmental impact of living

Communism has never truly existed on a large scale despite all the countries that have called themselves communist, but actual self sustaining communes are probably the closest example and if we could scale them up to create more sustainable cities it would bring a lot of benefits.

It's also no coincidence that many of the EU countries with the highest standards of living have adopted a lot of socialist policies when it comes to essentials like food/housing/medicine, and inversely many of the places with the lowest QOL metrics are deregulated capitalist hellscapes that are closer to modern feudalism than anything.

[u/ElectricalBook3 → u/Musiclover4200]

Socialism for essentials such as housing/food/medicine

I think you mean welfare, and I think history shows that to be correct. Even Rome before the emperors had a grain dole so its poor could afford to eat and that let it become the first megacity in the Mediterranean. When the Roman Empire lost its food production in north Africa, the grain dole was slashed and the people fled, resulting in the city's population crashing. As did its production, creating a descending spiral.

The same thing happened with Constantinople, it started out as a petty fishing village before its defensive potential and central location for the eastern Roman Empire led to its build-up and despite fertile ground for cabbage crops it wasn't until a grain dole was established before it became the next mediterranean megacity with productive universities, engineering and other institutions.

When people have to do all the work of totally supporting themselves, that means they can't specialize and you have a huge population which isn't "productive" in terms of the overall whole because they're overfocused on barely scraping by. Just look at feudalism's low agricultural productivity; tied to its low trade exchange - another thing shared with protectionist capitalism.

Same as deregulation for "free market" or laissez-faire was tried multiple times. In every single experiment, famine and economic depression resulted

[u/Musiclover4200 → u/ElectricalBook3]

I think you mean welfare, and I think history shows that to be correct.

Welfare has become such a loaded term for a lot of people but instead of focusing on a UBI I think we need to start with making food/housing and medicine as universal as possible. It's not even like most people need fancy food or housing they'd be happy just being able to afford essentials and get a decent apartment without paying crazy high prices and stressing out about being able to afford rent on top of everything else.

Appreciate the added history though, the success of societies really shouldn't be measured by how much wealth it generates but by how the average quality of life is or how people at the bottom are treated.

Same as deregulation for "free market" or laissez-faire was tried multiple times. In every single experiment, famine and economic depression resulted

"Trickle down economics" in all its variations really has been a plague on society for a long time, it's crazy how effective propaganda has been to convince people that deregulation & tax cuts for the rich will fix problems that are usually the direct result of those exact things. Meanwhile the periods we've flourished have always been when the lower/middle classes get the most benefits.

When people have to do all the work of totally supporting themselves, that means they can't specialize and you have a huge population which isn't "productive" in terms of the overall whole because they're overfocused on barely scraping by. Just look at feudalism's low agricultural productivity; tied to its low trade exchange - another thing shared with protectionist capitalism.

Yeah this is what it really comes down to, it's sad to think about all the smart people out there struggling just to get by who could be going to college and finding ways to improve things or even just contributing with art/science.

[u/ElectricalBook3 → u/Musiclover4200]

Appreciate the added history though, the success of societies really shouldn't be measured by how much wealth it generates but by how the average quality of life is or how people at the bottom are treated.

I completely agree.

The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much, it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.

-FDR