Government Should Not Legitimate Systemic-Racism Confessions

[u/HooverInstitution]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2024/12/15/government_should_not_legitimate_systemic-racism_confessions_152087.html

[u/mountthepavement]

I'm curious if you've ever read any literature on systemic racism. Like actual published books about it.

[u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12 → u/mountthepavement]

I'll answer your question, no, I haven't read any book on systemic racism, nor will I ever read a book on systemic racism. The definition of systemic racism does not fit the US in 2024, because it doesn't exist in the US in 2024. It absolutely did occur in the past and individual racism is very much a thing. If you would like to provide me some examples of systemic racism in 2024, I would like to read into or see it.

[u/No_Figure_232 → u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12]

When would you say systemic racism stopped being a thing in the US, out of curiosity?

[u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12 → u/No_Figure_232]

For the purposes of this question and what we are discussing, I'm calling systemic racism or institutional racism, laws, policies or lack of rights based on race systemic racism. If you want to go back to the civil rights act, voting rights or whatever that is where it ended technically, before that point in time it was very much a thing supported by law and lack of rights. Does individual racism still exist? Without a doubt. Since my time spent in school and the work force, late 90s and beyond, I have never saw one instance of systemic racism. Individual racism I have saw several times.

[u/No_Figure_232 → u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12]

So you believe systemic racism ended with the passage of the Civil Rights act?

Not trying to put words in your mouth here, trying to actually understand.

[u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12 → u/No_Figure_232]

I do under law and rights. I can't think of any organization, local, state or federal government that has any racist policies or practices. Unless you want to talk about the KKK or other groups like that, you can include them if you like and they would be by definition systemically racist, other than that I don't know of any organizational or governmental law, policy or whatever in 2024 that discriminates because of race. If you know of any I would be interested in knowing who they are, I really would.

There was a news story several years ago if I'm getting my time line correct about a Target store that had an intellectually disabled man trying to use the self checkout and taking to long or asking to many questions? So, they called the police and had him dragged from the store. Which lead me down a rabbit hole and Target has a history of discriminating against the disabled, like being sued by the federal government as a company. Not that it hurts Target's bottom line but I have not set foot in a Target since. It's not a race issue but it's all the same to me.

[u/No_Figure_232 → u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12]

So was redlining not systemic racism to you? It did, after all, require a completely different law (as in not the CRA) to abolish. Would that not be evidence of systemic racism to you because the group in question wasn't the government?

[u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12 → u/No_Figure_232]

I had to Google to exactly what redlining was and pertained too. I have heard the term before but never really looked into it. I'm going to ask you a question just to make sure we are talking about the same issue. Are you referring to redlining as being unfair lending practices, predatory loans and unequal home and neighborhood values for predominantly Hispanics and Blacks, from what I'm reading?

[u/No_Figure_232 → u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12]

In a simplified sense, yes, though I would leave out the neighborhood valuation as that is often nebulous.

An overwhelmingly common practice at that time that was racially targeted, but done by private organizations rather the government.

[u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12 → u/No_Figure_232]

If we agree what redlining is. I will agree that hispanics and blacks, from the few pieces of information I read, does appear to have merit, which is backed up by $84 million in settlements brought on by the justice department, which is exactly what should happen because redlining is an absolute violation of law. Why hispanics and blacks in specific are being targeted I have no idea? Is it just because of income, their careers, they aren't financially savvy or is it just because of race? I don't know and don't have enough information to begin to speculate. Still, it is absolutely against the law and is being punished as they are being caught. That tells me it's not systemic racism because it is already against the law and I would assume from the banks and such I could find(none of which I have ever heard of) that it seems to be limited. I still don't think that would qualify as systemic as covering all banks or lending institutions.

[u/No_Figure_232 → u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12]

To be clear, that lawsuits happened AFTER it was made illegal, which would imply to me that the Civil Rights Act did not end systemic racism if we can point to a form of it said law didn't address. Before the Fair Housing Act, this was business as usual.

So it sounds like you would agree it was systemic before being made illegal, and we know the CRA isn't what made it illegal. So how would the CRA be the end of systemic racism if we can point to additional forms of it?

[u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12 → u/No_Figure_232]

The Fair Housing Act was only a few years after the CRA and the voting rights act. Yeah, your not going to get a disagreement from me it, I'm sure it was systemic and standard practice before force of law, just like every other racist thing before force of law. So, we are only talking about 4 years, I'll agree that redlining was systemic racism between the CRA(1964) and the FHA(1968). That was also 56 years ago and no I did not specifically mention the FHA by name like it did with the CRA and the VRA(1965), I just assumed that the CRA, which the FHA is title VIII of the CRA(1968) of an amended version of the 1964 CRA, would cover it.

The lawsuits did come after the law and that's what the law was designed for and also it wasn't every lender or bank involved, which by definition would disqualify it from being systemic.

[u/No_Figure_232 → u/DrunkCaptnMorgan12]

Ok but we were discussing when systemic racism ended, and your argument was the CRA's passage was the end of it.

Given that you are now aware of an example of systemic racism that existed after the passage of the CRA, don't you think it might be possible there are other examples, too? It just seems weird to confidently say something as pervasive as this ended with the passage of a particular law, if we can actively find things that law didn't initially cover.