Ben Shapiro vs. Sam Harris on Trump

[u/narcabusesurvivor18]

https://youtu.be/cTnV5RfhIjk?feature=shared

To me, what sticks out in this debate is how quickly Sam changes standards with how he looks at the actions of politicians. When it’s a Democrat, he treats what they say/do as mostly unimportant, unserious, etc. but when it’s Trump it’s super important, serious, etc. It’s what Ben pointed out multiple times; the actual policy and comparing actions vs words matters more. But even the rhetoric itself, Sam changes standards. When Hillary denies the results of the 2016 election, (and launders the Russiagate lies) that’s just water under the bridge. Trump denying the election results in 2020 and then leaving office, that’s the end of the world. It bothered me quite a bit how Sam’s standards seem to change so radically but for no solid reason.

[u/Calm_Row122]

What are your legitimate criticisms of Trump? I’m curious to hear it from a Trump supporter because the left has been calling them out constantly for the past 8 years and all you hear from the right is “something something TDS”.

[u/Calm_Row122 → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for sharing. I appreciate your good faith response.

Does someone who has many many obvious and documented character flaws, lies routinely, rambles incoherently, is a grifter sound like the profile of a strong leader, though?

While, as Sam said, I think our institutions and democracy are strong enough to withstand another Trump presidency, his erosion of our norms surrounding the election, and the subsequent whitewashing of his attempt to overturn the election by the right are what is most disqualifying and frankly confounding to me. There seems to be this idea on the right that Trump was within his legal right to do what he did, but that is simply not true. Trump, and his lawyers, broke the law in multiple ways in their attempts to overturn the election. From the knowably false claims of election fraud, to pressuring Pence to illegally refuse to certify the election, to attempting to use false slates of electors to disenfranchise voters, to inciting a mob to storm the capital to delay the certification of the vote, they used illegal means to overturn the election. Jan 6th did not happen in a vacuum; it was one piece of a no holds barred plan to overturn a free and fair election. These things are not opinions and are well documented in the related court cases, and his lawyers are now all disgraced or disbarred. In fact, on Jan 7th 2020, Shapiro himself called it an insurrection and fully condemned it as the worst moment for America since 9/11.

Call it TDS if you want but if what Trump did after the 2020 election is not disqualifying of the office of president to the American people then that leads me to question how much we as a nation truly value freedom and democracy.

[u/Calm_Row122 → u/[deleted]]

Haha I don’t think many on the left are thrilled at their choice of candidates in the past two elections. It’s something that they need to improve going forward, though I understand the move to go with KH instead of having a runoff to find a new candidate 3 months before the election. Biden should have dropped out much much sooner.

For me the risk of electing a run of the mill democrat like Harris is just simply lower than the wild card that is Trump. Trump may have a benign second term and then sail off in to the sunset never to be heard from again (yeah right lol). His first term was fairly anticlimactic up until the very end. But what I see with his toxic rhetoric and his refusal to concede defeat, presumably because his ego just simply can’t handle it, is a far greater threat under the right conditions.

Here’s to hoping the next 4 years are boring politically and we can get back to some normalcy someday.

[u/Calm_Row122 → u/[deleted]]

You’re not wrong here, but to me the infighting and inability to align around a single candidate or agenda speaks to the diversity of opinion on the left. Which may not be good for winning elections but is good overall I think. I’d like to see a bit more of that on the right. I don’t think the current mandate to back Trump or be destroyed is particularly healthy for the Republican Party.