r/benshapiro • u/cupcakemonster20 • Feb 01 '24
Argue with me about femenism Ben Shapiro Discussion/critique
I just assume most people here aren’t feminists and are what I call kinda sexist
Here are some of my arguments or arguments against things I would guess you guys will say if you have the energy to read:
First off I don’t wanna hear about “it’s biological” because it’s pretty much scientifically impossible to know if our differences is caused by social or genetic factors. You can however assume (if you have any knowledge in social psychology) that these differences are at least strengthened by social constructs.
I don’t wanna hear arguments about “it’s human nature” because racism and bullying is also human nature and that doesn’t make it okay and even if it is human nature you can still change it.
My main issue in today’s society isn’t that we don’t get payed equally
(Even though I think sexism exists within many workplaces that would make girls not wanna take some jobs and there are many guys who wouldn’t respect a woman in a leadership position etc, also jobs that are considered more “feminine” like a nurse or psychologist gets payed less then jobs that are more male dominated even though they went to uni the same amount of years, and I would argue the work of a nurse is more important then the work of an engineer (I get that it’s difficult in places where taxes pay healthcare while the engineers work for a private company, but still)
My main issue around this topic is how guys are raised by society.
Guys are thought to push away their emotions (except for anger) and that it’s more important to succeed and be a leader and show yourself strong then to show sympathy which I believe makes a lot of guys less sympathetic.
They’re thought to hate everything “feminine” mainly in themselves bc if a guy acts feminine “then he’s GAY” ever noticed how people never say “you’re not like other guys” as a compliment (unless it means that he’s kinder or more respectful) but it’s often times used on girls as a compliment “you’re not like other girls)
I think a lot of guys say they love woman but they only like to have sex and intimacy with them and aside from that they hate women and can’t stand a girl with opinions etc.
Guys are thought that they have to have sex with as many woman as possible and the only thing woman are good for is sex and validation and they can function as a trophy. They also watch porn which doesn’t teach guys consent at all.
As a girl I don’t wanna be around a lot of guys because most of them just see you as an object and don’t respect you and if you say you have an opinion it’s just annoying or funny to them, and they assume you’re dumb and only controlled by emotions and lack all reason etc etc. There’s this look guys give you that is so uncomfortable when they have these dead eyes and it’s so clear that they just see you as an object that they would like to fuck and it’s so disgusting.
There are so many things but I think it’s clear that social constructs contribute to so many guys being violent and that they murder and rape and so many are misogynistic and lack a lot of sympathy etc etc, and it’s not good for the guys either. And I know it’s not all guys but it effects them
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u/SpudgeFunker210 Feb 01 '24 edited Feb 01 '24
This isn't true. There are a plethora of proven genetic differences between males and females. From hormones, to brain development, to muscle mass, to bone density, to sexual function, men and women have clear biological differences before they even exit the womb, and their differences in behavior can be observed before they're even verbal. It is impossible that all of these differences are due to societal influence. This is not an excuse for poor behavior, but if you want to correct someone's behavior, understanding which influences are biological is important. There are almost always outliers here and there, but that doesn't subtract from the general reality.
Importance is irrelevant when it comes to pay. It's more difficult to become an engineer as it's a higher skill level position. This isn't to take away from nurses, but there is no shortage of nurses in the Western world. Skilled engineers are harder to come by and so companies are more willing to pay premium wages for premium work. Additionally, nurses are still paid pretty well, depending on where they work, and they always have the option to get their RN and be paid much more due essentially the same job. My girlfriend is an LPN and she makes great money. There is no intentional monetary bias against female dominated fields. Women are often more likely to choose lower paying positions, and this is often because they have husbands that are the primary breadwinners of the family, and the women are perfectly comfortable with that arrangement. There were even programs set up with the intention of getting more women interested in STEM fields and they were largely unsuccessful because women often just aren't interested in those kinds of jobs. And think about it, if a woman wants a husband that earns more so that she can choose a lower paying job that she truly desires and/or have more freedom to bear and raise children, why should anyone have a problem with that? The more ambitious, career-oriented women are the ones trailblazing in male dominated fields and that's great for them too. See, when you just look at overall earnings and call everything unfair, you miss the fact that women are choosing less money for a more satisfying job and work/life balance. No use trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. There's nothing in our society stopping women from entering whatever workforce they want.
This is quite the generalization and oversimplification. Men are expected to have a level of stoicism, sure, and this often manifests in unhealthy ways, but to say that men are taught to be angry and less sympathetic is quite a stretch. It's incredibly important for men to have control over their emotions, especially when it comes to their treatment of women. Because men are biologically larger and stronger, a man who has poor control over his emotions is at risk of abusing his partner. This is why stoicism is a good thing to an extent. This does get warped into people acting like men should be emotionless sometimes though, and I acknowledge that. It's just important not to overcorrect this issue, and I think our society has been having a conversation about this long enough that we've seen a pretty big shift away from the toxic extremes of this. Don't take your anecdotal experiences as indicative of all men everywhere.
I don't think men are taught to hate feminine things at all. The whole calling men gay for having feminine behaviors may have been an issue 15-20 years ago, but it's 2024 and our society has all but moved past that almost to a fault. I'd say today's society is largely too accepting of feminine behavior in men because we need strong masculine men to work the tough, dirty jobs that women aren't often well suited for. Things like construction, sanitation, factory jobs, firefighters, etc. The last thing we need to be doing as a society is making men weaker. In my experience, weak men (both physically and emotionally) are much more harmful than strong men, but I digress.
There is absolutely an obsession with sex in our society, especially from men. There are a lot of men that seemingly only care about sex. I attribute this to two things that are closely connected: 1. The mainstream societal embrace of Wilhelm Reich's The Sexual Revolution and his complete restructuring of sex to be a purely transactional act, separate from the spiritual and emotional bond and from procreation, but somehow still seen as fundamental to human flourishing. Sex has simultaneously been devalued and put on a pedestal. This outlook paved the way for the second influence. 2. The widespread accessibility to prolific online libraries of hardcore pornography. I 100% agree with you about porn. It has been eroding the masculine perspective on sex for 20+ years now and the damage has been catastrophic. It eliminates any need for a man to have self control when he becomes aroused, leading to him subconsciously not giving a damn about consent. Porn is a poison in our society and no one wants to do anything about it.
The thing is, Reich's philosophies were not rejected, but they were perpetuated by feminism. Feminists see "sex work," even porn, as empowering for women, ignoring it's degrading reality. Feminists marched for the sexual revolution that has done nothing but exacerbate the worst qualities of men and led to all this destruction.
And this is where I get to my main point. You presented this as some kind of argument for feminism, when feminism is culpable in all of these things that you hate. I'm specifically not a feminist because I hate how debauched our society has become. Feminism, especially intersectional feminism, has set out to destroy everything valuable about manhood while blurring the differences between men and women so that a man's role in society could be eliminated. Even you see the stark differences between men and women, despite your earlier statement about biology, as you've painted men with a very broad brush in this post. Feminism, along with Marxist critical theorists, have created the men you hate so much. The solution to these problems is a return to a more traditional sexual ethic, and positive reinforcement of constructive masculine traits. A good man has physical strength, strength of character, self control, discipline, a strong moral code, respect, and compassion. These men are increasingly rare thanks to feminism.