It was a good debate. I don't think Ben's position of 'Trump says a lot of shit' is going to actually win over any converts, but I also think it's his honest position. Destiny is out of his mind for thinking that Trump knows that the 2020 election wasn't stolen. Regardless of if it was or wasn't stolen, it's pretty obvious that Trump believes it was.
Destiny is out of his mind for thinking that Trump knows that the 2020 election wasn't stolen.
They were talking about what counts as "knowing". Destiny made a good point, that so many of Trumps political allies told him that it is not stolen. He had 0 evidence, and his allies were telling him it is not true. So what is the "knowing" that the election was stolen based on? If it is just based on his feeling or intuition, it has nothing to do with how the rest of the world uses the term "knowing".
The problem is that Destiny's position doesnt take into account everyone else who was telling him there were problems. Sure, when you only focus on one side of the issue, it looks very cut and dry, but there were people around Trump telling him that the election was stolen and that he could still win.
Trump had people telling him both sides of the story and he chose to believe one side.
Who was telling Trump that there were issues? The Director of National Intelligence? VP Pence, who had everything to gain from agreeing? His own campaign staff & lawyers who all quit when Trump sought to contest the vote? What about the County courts, the Georgia SoS?
I mean, we can appeal to anything & imagine an entire cast of staffers who said "Yes Mr. Trump" at an inconvenient time, but there was A LOT of bad faith in the claims Trump made with zero justification on how Trump came to this one conclusion in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
His legal team was telling him all sorts of things to get him into court. That had to come from somewhere. Juliani was telling him it was stolen. People all over the internet and on TV were talking about irregularities and strangeness.
There was a lot going on that could have easily convinced anyone who wanted to be convinced that the election was stolen.
Dude was literally firing lawyers & hiring Yes Men who would agree to Trump's case, and you wanna try & sell to me the idea that the Election Denialism was some sort of mass psychosis?
I can joke about Joe Biden being the taxidermy President cause it's funny, but I dont think believing that Donald Trump is so cognitively incapable that he cannot judge reality is as cute. Independents will see this as Trump needing to be in a nursing home, and thats if I give you the benefit of the doubt.
sell to me the idea that the Election Denialism was some sort of mass psychosis?
That's not what I'm saying. There were very real questions to be asked about the correctness of the 2020 election. There are very real questions to be asked about just about any election, but especially something like 2020 where so many strange, unprecedented things happened.
Let me put it to you this way; the night of the election I was watching podcasts as it was happening. Sometime in the night, a polling station in Georgia said they were stopping count because they had a burst water pipe. That was widely reported and the voting count stopped happening. Fair enough, I don't want poll workers to drown or freeze to death, so it's all good.
So what's the problem? The problem is that there wasn't a water pipe burst. It didn't happen. So why did they stop counting and why did someone say that there was a water pipe burst?
Now maybe that story means nothing. Someone got their story wrong, misunderstood an order from the top, nothing actually effecting the election happened it was just a weird thing that's never happened before, but it just happened to happen this year. Fine, that's fair enough. We're dealing with human beings that make mistakes so you're going to run into these situations naturally without any sort of conspiracy waiting in the shadows.
However, it's also something weird that hasn't happened before and is something that should be investigated. Was it? I don't know. This is one of those stories that just doesn't have a conclusion.
There were a lot of stories like that all over the country. 5 different states(all of them the most contested) also stopped counting in the middle of the night. Why? Don't know. Does that mean fraud? No, but it certainly provides an ample field in which doubts can grow.
Trump had ample reason to believe that the election was being stolen, even if you disagree with him.
It's not weird or wrong to question the election. Clinton still thinks she won in 2016. Gore thinks he won in 2000. Trump thinks he won in 2020.
All of this that you are mentioning isnt a reason, much less ample reason, to believe the election was stolen from Trump.
At best this is good justification to question specific states through recounts & investigations, which did happen, and all resulted in cementing Biden's victory in these states.
When was Trump gonna accept that the election wasn't stolen? When his lawyers said no, when his Campaign advisor said no, when his DNI said no? Or when he was forced to fire his lawyers because they all refused? This all sounds like either Trump is senile, or that Trump knew from the beginning & was trying to supplant the peaceful transfer of power.
At what point in this description of Trump's 4yr long manic episode are you gonna admit that either Trump knew and is subject to mens ria for the upcoming SCotUS case, or that Trump didnt know and is just unfit for office?
Clinton still thinks she won in 2016. Gore thinks he won in 2000. Trump thinks he won in 2020.
All wrong.
Clinton never contested the results of the 2016 election. She conceded at 1am on 11/10/2016. All conservatives have to lean on for this point was an interview done years later where she said Trump was an "illegitimate president", and the question she was answering had literally nothing to do with the 2016 election but rather Trump's supposed dereliction of duty.
Al Gore lost after his case was fasttracked to the Supreme Court and they determined that Bush legitimately won in Florida. Gore ratified Bush's Electors votes for the very state. You can't find a quote this millenium where Gore believes he should have won.
And again, all Gore did was contest the results which Trump didn't respect when the answer came out differently than he has hoped for.
I'd love to talk more, but I'm typing this all on my phone @ work.
Affidavits by people who were determined to be completely ignorant about what they were talking about.
I suggest you look up what sn affidavit is before you try to use that as a point.
You're saying all this like the man who helped file these affidavits, Rudy Giuliani, didn't admit under oath that he knew he had no evidence the entire time. Nice try loser.
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u/LTT82 Jan 23 '24
It was a good debate. I don't think Ben's position of 'Trump says a lot of shit' is going to actually win over any converts, but I also think it's his honest position. Destiny is out of his mind for thinking that Trump knows that the 2020 election wasn't stolen. Regardless of if it was or wasn't stolen, it's pretty obvious that Trump believes it was.