r/asktransgender • u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin • 1d ago
Telling cis friends "I wish I could be a <insert your assigned at birth gender>!" really confuses them and shows they do not see us as our true gender?
I jokingly said "I wish I could be cis man" to a long term friend recently and she laughter and said well you of all people could!
Uhh wait what? Why me of all the people, ah its because she does not see me as a woman... it just hurts...
For reference we were talking about dating. Before my transition women wanted more dates with me but I always broke it off because I felt like faking all the time.
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u/JackRusselFarrier 1d ago edited 1d ago
Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong but isn't she just saying "haha we both know you don't actually wish you were a cis man, because if you were happy living as a man then you probably wouldn't be a woman right now."
To me it seems like she was just acknowledging your joke. But idk I'm just a stranger on the internet and I wasn't there.
U/pedroff_1 said what I actually wanted to communicate, but in a nicer and more articulate way. Plz ignore me and read her comment instead 🫣
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u/prismatic_valkyrie Transfem-Bisexual 1d ago
I would have responded with "trust me: I tried, and I really, really can't. It didn't work."
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u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin 1d ago
Yeah I said that. But I mean she was there for all of it we know each other for 15 years. But my impression is that most cis people see as as our assigned at birth sex who role play for fun or something...
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u/ClearSoda90 16h ago
most cis people see as as our assigned at birth sex who role play for fun or something
Sadly, a lot of "trans" people fit this description, causing us to be conflated.
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u/Olive_the_gothicgrrl Demi-girl 1d ago
yeah I can't because it's not True
am a woman whether I want to be or not
if I stay in boymode, even if I were happy (which I wouldn't be) it would be a lie, I'd be pretending
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u/pedroff_1 Trans gal 1d ago
I think she just meant in the sense that, just as she couldn't be a trans woman, you'd be one of the people that would technically be able to be a cis guy. Doesn't mean it can't be interpreted in hurtful ways and doesn't mean it didn't hurt. I, personally, would have taken it ligheartedly and gone with u/prismatix_valkyrie 's response, but you have the right to do otherwise (also, you are the only person who has the context and the way she phrased it, which can sometimes drastically affect how a comment is received)
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u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin 1d ago
I actually only said guy not cis guy.
Many cis woman sometimes joke in "I wish I would be a man". in the context of struggling with dating/the patriarchy. The response to that is never a "You know you could be one right?"
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u/pedroff_1 Trans gal 1d ago
Ok, yeah, that changes contex a lot. Indeed it sounds much more inappropriate from your friend
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u/MissLeaP 1d ago
A lot of cis people are super uneducated when it comes to trans topics and still seem to think it's a choice, unfortunately.
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u/agprincess I miss the flag flairs. 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean it kind of sounds like you said a pretty absurdist thing and got a pretty absurdist response too.
It doesn't sound like she doesn't see you as female she just recognizes that fundementally if you magically were a cis version of you in your current body you would have an easier time transitioning to cis male and any trans male or cis woman.
That doesn't presuppose that you actually are any closer to being cis male. It reads on commentary on society and transtion vs detransition more than anything.
But you started the discussion with an absurdist premiss that you wish you were cis male. What does that even mean to you? You broached the topic. If you are disgusted by the implications why bring it up?
I think most cis and trans people would struggle with this level of discussion.
Imagine if a trans man told you it would be easier for you to become a cis male than it would be for him? Do you think that's a fundementally incorrect statement? I think that's what your friend is getting at. It's the term cis that is the major point not the birth gender.
Not that anyone really thinks it's possible to become cis. But you already posited that absurdity in the what if.
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u/sweetnk 1d ago
Imagine if a trans man told you it would be easier for you to become a cis male than it would be for him? Do you think that's a fundementally incorrect statement?
Yes? Its not like its possible because of gender dysphoria, it's incorrect and inappropriate to say to a woman, meanwhile a man can go on hrt and develop and live as a man anyway, this was never a possibility for me and would drasticly shorten my life
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u/agprincess I miss the flag flairs. 1d ago edited 1d ago
You don't understand. The operating word is CIS.
You've already lived a life that everyone else considered a cis male (although you weren't). definitionally, anyone not born male can never be a cis male.
This is not about trans people being men or women. It's about the meaning of the word cis. It means Same Side. If you cross you are definitionally not on the same side.
We don't believe that you actually ever were cis. You were likley trans and could never have been cis. But fundementally all trans people once lived a life functionally the same as their cis gender counter parts. If there was a world where trans people could be cis it would take a lot less definition stretching to become the cis version of the gender you were assigned at birth.
It's hard to argue anyone could become cis of the gender they were not assigned at birth. At that point you'd have to rewrite your entire existence before conception. Definitionally, cis and trans are commentary on your gender assigned at birth (or at conception really sonce we can assign gender in the womb these days).
But that is NOT commentary on trans women not being women or trans men not being men. Trans women are way closer to cis women and trans men are way closer to cis men than their birth genders. They are, after all, women or men respectivly. But there's a stronger definitional boundry between trans and cis of the other gender than the one assigned at birth and trans and the gender you were assigned at birth.
And OP already presupposed a world where the boundary between you and the gender assigned at birth is shattered. But not the other boundary.
OP's thought process on what OP's friend said would make more sense if they presupposed a world where you could magically become cis of either gender assigned at birth and their friend said "well arn't you closer to the one you were assigned at birth?" That would imply a belief that trans women are men and trans men are women. But if you don't add the option to turn into the cis version of your gender then what she said is just definitionally true based on the words cis and trans. And it's also truer in real life though we recognize that trans people cannot become or have been cis versions of their genders assigned at birth.
Anyways maybe it'll help by realize that there are no cis women that were once trans women but there are plenty enough detrans people that don't believe they are or were trans after all.
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u/SCP-iota 17h ago
OP's comment in a thread above:
I actually only said guy not cis guy.
Otherwise, you're right about this, but that's not this scenario.
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u/sweetnk 23h ago
there are plenty of women who used to consider themselves trans, but after SRS and correcting old birth certificate they consider themselves more cis than trans. also that's exactly what we do in my birth country, we don't have any laws regulating transition, but courts can "create a law" for specific case when there's regulation missing like that and the final effect is a ruling that XY person has been of their sex since birth, the ruling lets you correct your birth certificate and you're "legally" cis, hehe. btw. it's not like cis people really think about it as deep as you do, I feel like you give them way too much credit tbh.
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u/Ok_Walrus_230 17h ago
Thanks, my feelings exactly, I would NEVER joke about it.
If by an absurd reason I did the joke and got that reply I would probably look at her with an "Seriously?" face and respond with a sarcastic "Nah, tried already, not worth it" and possibly laugh it off.
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u/deletion-imminent Agender 1d ago
I jokingly said "I wish I could be cis man" to a long term friend recently and she laughter and said well you of all people could!
If you make the joke yourself why would you be surprised they roll with it?
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u/Kela95 1d ago
Like to me this is opening yourself up to miscommunication and feeling hurt because they have taken it as something lighthearted and silly and yeah it's not the answer you want but maybe be careful you can't expect them to fully understand everything and I don't know the relationship but I wouldn't ever think of saying this tbh
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u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin 1d ago
You would be surprised about the answers I think.
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u/Elithelioness 1d ago
It fucking sucks, because it's also comes from SO MANY potential angles :/ but also, I noticed a lot of people don't know their gender expression outside of their genitals even if they are accepting like they don't know how to do for THEMSELVES.
Like WE know that because it comes with the territory, but a lot of cis people I know (queer and cishet) for some reason dial up tone surprise Pikachu face at me when it actually registers in their heads that no it's not delulu and yes it really is something you can experiment with that doesn't require a blood bond. I think maybe other trans people are the only ones that can be really accepting because we know what it's like to be forced to do that experimentation and realize something missing 🙃
Especially with my AFAB friends too like yo you don't have to be queer first to buy a fucking basketball jersey and some Jordans Sis not all tomboys are studs and not all straight tomboys grow out of it at 30 and trade it for heels and a husband if that was true Love & Basketball wouldn't be a cult classic for so many people.
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u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin 15h ago
Thanks for your comment I thought about it a lot as in what can I expect from my cis friends. What do I need given I understand they have a different experience.
I think I like my friends to understand that sex isn’t strictly binary—characteristics like hormones, chromosomes, brain wiring, and reproductive organs all vary. I see myself as biologically nonbinary leaning toward female, and it hurts when people dismiss that.
My sister, for example, insists my birth assignment wasn’t wrong, implying she still sees me as a man who now identifies as a woman whatever that means for her…
She went on explaining biology in the animal world etc when she has not researched a thing and goes by what she learned in school not recognizing she has a very limiting view and been indoctrinated by society (as we all have been) to believe sex is strictly binary.
Rather than trusting me, learning from me and recognizing my identity and how I view my body and brain. I just wish they’d realize that sex and gender aren’t so black-and-white—and that “biological male” doesn’t fit who I am.
So going back to what you said, yeah most, cishet or cis queer people or even newly hatched trans people have their assumptions about biology, identity, and social roles. And like for us initially it’s apparently something that can be uncomfortable or confusing for our friends. Apparently even after many many years of being friends with a trans person…
Also maya bit unrelated but strangely one old video clip came to my mind when thinking about how cis people don’t get us.
In this clip Obama (then president) when asked why we are suddenly discussing bathroom issues, explains how trans people always existed up to then but suffered in silently. And I just can’t stop this feeling of omg he gets it. All my life I suffered with this bathroom issue especially in school!
And I wish of my friends to get this too when a former president can do it.
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u/Elithelioness 13h ago
It's a humanization problem but I'm realizing it's not just with trans people, it's with themselves too and it's hella weird that a lot of people just don't see any humanity in anything from a basic standpoint and not just a biased/bigoted one.
Also the biology argument has ALWAYS been insane to me. All of biology is gray and not only that but we've confirmed human experiences we face with sex and sexuality in other species of animals too so like??? What?? Like, there's more chromosomes than just X and Y, only humans use X and Y and have 23 of them. And then like male seahorses give birth. That's why trans men that give birth are usually called seahorse Dads. Male lions were seen mounting each other for connection and not just to display dominance like nah bro they're not gay they're literally bonding and playing around🙃, shows you can be an "alpha male" and still do "gay stuff" since that lion wasn't overthrown after doing it but somehow if a Man hugs and cuddles his 10 yo sons like he does his 10 yo daughters he's not manly and it's making his son "gay" 😒. Some female lions in Botswana grew manes because of excess testosterone, sounds like alotta PCOS hooplah to meeeee. And that's just the most common shit you see as a meme on the fucking internet! 😭
I'm big on reptiles. A bearded dragon can change their sex to female if they are male and incubating at too high temperatures, but they'll still be chromosomally male. That's literally what being intersex is. Chromosomal abnormalities in the womb that can't be explained (even though...that's explained but still the main point stands lol). You can control if you're hatching male/female leopard geckos based off temperature when you incubate them. Higher temp? Males. Lower temps? Females. In the middle? Literally it's a coin toss so not only is it gray and controllable but it's simple gray and controllable. Females can still be born at higher temps, especially if the temp was raised later on in the early stages of incubation but they are hatched as something called "Hot Females". I hatched one in August. Named her Lilith😅 I love her but oh man none of her brothers or her parents have ever cat screamed at me just because she SAW me coming nor has anyone else ever bit me on the regular🥲.
Like NOTHING about sex, gender, gender expression, biology, or sexuality itself is black and white aside from our indoctrinated view points on it and that's on the fault of education religion and politics. We feel like kids won't get the point but they'll get it faster, better, and way easier while their brains are still sponges rather than after 30 when religious biases or social norms/forces on gender roles and boxes have set in and that's on all sides.
I try to give space for fuck ups but people having issues seeing me as a man because I don't have a penis just doesn't make sense because I don't have a working vagina or uterus anyways so how..am I woman? 🙃 Like I don't discount the 25 years I identified as a woman either but that's from a SOCIAL standpoint alone. I had my first period at 9. Happens to some intersex people with penises too and they end up in the hospital for internal bleeding because they don't have a cervix. That's the only difference. I get progesterone spikes and have DDs by the time I'm 12. You give a trans woman progesterone and she grows titties too! Same shit. It's hormones. I have testosterone spikes and my puberty matches with my brothers. My hip bones never disconnect, I grow hella body hair, I smell way worse and sweat more so I can't use the girly deodorants I gotta use my big brother's deodorant, my fat shifts and then shifts back during the spike changes so my build is different, for 16 years I only get 1 period a year and my ovaries wear pearl necklaces, My uterus acts like a landlord, it evicted all 6 fetuses it found immediately and I never got passed implantation even after IUIs. You give me estrogen, I just get more testosterone. You give me more testosterone, I get more T AND more estrogen singing kumbaya together and don't get any changes except more PCOS symptoms like facial hair and no period unless my T converts to E, then I somehow get regular periods that I never get without testosterone but "biology says" T kills E so trans men don't need estrogen blockers. I needed an estrogen blocker. Pre T, can't lose weight. My T level is "too high"? Lost 70 lbs doing NOTHING different. Take it away? Gain 100 lbs back. Why? "Oh just Endo policy" okay but don't I have higher risk for stroke and heart disease at 300 lbs than I do with my blood levels being the same as a cis mans levels so I "might" be at higher risk for a stroke? Why is policy cis female ranges still if the goal is...to change that??
ALLLLL of that gray area of biology and it doing the fucked up crazy shit it does, and yet people really think trans people are just delulu and "choose" it. No. Biology doesn't work that way. And having a penis doesn't mean "cis man on easy mode" as much as people like to think or else Viagra wouldn't sell so well. 😒
It's just NEVER made any goddamn sense other than indoctrinated thought processes.
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u/DarthJackie2021 Transgender-Asexual 1d ago
That's one way to interpret it. Or as we often say "I wish I could be a (insert actual gender)" when we are first questioning our gender, exclaiming a desire to be our AGAB would also indicate a similar desire to transition (or detransition in this case) back to our AGAB?
Frankly, as a trans person, I too am confused why a trans woman would want to be a cis man. The whole reason you transitioned is because you don't want to be one, correct?
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u/m50 24 MtF | Marisa | HRT 14/2/18 19h ago
I'd rather be cishet, that's all it comes down to (in relation to dating)
I see all my cishet friends have a much easier time with dating than I, and I'm jealous. If I could have lived as a cis man, it would have been easier, in every way
Also, no, it's not because I wanted to transition, I transitioned because I couldn't continue as a man.
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u/LoveInfamy Trans Woman 14h ago
Thank you for saying this.
"I wish I could be a woman" is how I thought of it for my whole life. That wasn't about wishing to be a woman "on the inside", deep down in my heart of hearts. It was about wishing to have a woman's body.
If I said "I wish I could be a man", I'd expect to get some funny looks, because I already was one. I successfully lived as a man for many years, and if I didn't think being a woman would be an upgrade, I easily could've kept living like that.
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u/chromark ftm 1d ago
I don't understand why you would say you wish you were a cis man
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u/Emotional_Skill_8360 1d ago
I’ve had times when I wish I wasn’t trans and could just be the sex I was assigned ah birth. Idk if it’s for the same reason, but for me my life would be less complicated. Obviously as a trans dude I can’t be a woman; I tried for years and it was miserable for me. But I can understand why someone would wish to not be trans either way.
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u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah that.
Also imagine going from never being afraid on a date (except rejection maybe), never having fear that I get raped or being followed by creeps .. also being considered being competent at work just because of my perceived gender despite having no clue and so on... to loosing all that and part of my income lol.
I also gained a lot so its not all black and white but at I guess I got overwhelmed so that's why I said it.
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u/Emotional_Skill_8360 1d ago
Understandable! Like, I feel like most people wouldn’t choose to be trans. Dysphoria sucks, the process is hard, and the world isn’t kind to us. I’m so grateful to have the opportunity to transition but it would have been cool to have been born either cis male or cis female.
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u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin 1d ago
Yeah I would not no longer choose to be born a cis female given the choice. I would choose to be cis male and own the world lol.
Of course if I could only change my body I would still choose female the one to match my brain :)
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u/Xx_PxnkBxy_xX Homosexual-Transgender 18h ago
Yeah but to say that and be upset about an equally abhorrent response? Make it make sense...
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u/great_green_toad ftm 1d ago
What part don't you understand? I've wished to be a cis women, in fact I spent years trying to do it. But unfortunately it didn't work out.
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u/sweetnk 1d ago
Yea, cis people dont get transness, they think its optional, a costume, a choice, many bad answers and rarely the true ones. Thats why stealth is the only solid way for us, thats why passisng is important for a relatively "normal" life, otherwise cis people will always see you as your sex assigned at birth if they know, like theyll always think a trans woman is a man who identifies, not really a woman. They think its polite, so they won't even feel bad about saying youre not a real woman to your face. Cis people have no hearts or empathy, old wisdom is to never tell them, because nothing good comes from it for us...
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u/mothwhimsy Non Binary 1d ago
Ugh I hate when cis people don't even realize they've just told us they don't understand us or how being trans works.
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u/AxOfBrevity trans man (he/him) 1d ago
Obviously you're completely valid to feel invalidated by her response based on what you took her to mean by it, but if she's really a dear friend then I would talk with her about it. Tell her you felt hurt because it felt like she sees you as a man, and that you want to make it clear that being a woman is not by a choice you've made, but a fact of your nature. Try not to scold her, just explain that it's really important to you that she understands your experience.
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u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin 1d ago
Yeah I did that the last time when we were talking about surgeries and she made me cry. She did apologise for that but i'ts really challenging as she has some deeps believes about human nature that I deeply disagree with.
For example she also does not believe in biological neurodivergence and also does not want to even consider that one of her kids may (of course also maybe not) be on the ADHD spectrum or have some form of dyslexia. Because she does not think these things exist. She rather believes she made a mistake in parenting or the kid had a bad teacher.
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u/flamesabers Transgender-Asexual 1d ago
Intellectually I understand not wanting to be trans, but emotionally, I don't understand wishing to be someone who doesn't exist. If in an alternate universe, I was a cis man, I (who I know myself to be), would cease to exist. Of course it's much easier to be cis than trans, but wishing to become a cis amab isn't something I would be able to enjoy.
In other words, I perceive wishing to be cis (with our birth sex) is very different compared to wishing to not have a particular food allergy, or not having to take a certain medication to be functional. Food allergies and medication don't define who we are. However, I think gender does play an integral part of our identities, otherwise so many trans people wouldn't go to whatever lengths they could to transition.
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u/uniquefemininemind F | she/her | HRT '17, GCS, FFS | Berlin 1d ago
Yeah I would also case the exist if I would choose to be a cis woman. Because obviously my experience as a trans person, growing up etc is a part of who I am.
I would rather say it's not analytical but emotional to wish to have something, an easier life that one attributes (maybe even wrongly) to another person or group.
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u/great_green_toad ftm 1d ago
Maybe i don't understand or maybe I'm a little agender but I think id be a similar person if I was my agab. I think the things you listed, life time medication (I have some mild things), suffering from allergies (i have a few), have a similar effect on my personality.
Dealing with dysphoria though, I think has had a large impact on my life trajectory. But trans people say they wish they were born cis (identified gender) all the time. Im willing to accept id be a different person though if it meant not dealing with dysphoria.
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u/Emotional_Skill_8360 1d ago
It’s tough. Even my wife, who bought me a binder and my first packer and has nursed me through two surgeries doesn’t see me fully as a dude. She would never say that and is careful to always gender me correctly, but three years in she recently slipped up and it was a reminder that no one who knew me ‘before’ will ever see me as a full dude. If she can’t, no one will. But I’ve decided to focus on the actions of those around me who are trying. It would be hard for me too if the shoe was on the other foot.
On the up side, strangers and my coworkers all see me as a dude as long as I don’t out myself.