Help navigating the AWB would be appreciated

[u/[deleted]]

[u/45HARDBALL]

Get a tap set and fix the threads

[u/TankerKing2019]

Being as the receiver is considered the firearm with an AR15, I’m curious how this will turn out. I will say the Antichrists in Olympia have done a decent job of writing the gun control bills to make sure that we are almost surely fucked in situations like this.

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

A couple people are saying the lower is the AR-15. I don't agree, but I also think that you're going to have significant trouble replacing it.

What people are referring to is 9.41.010 (2)(a)(i). Bold is my emphasis

(2)(a) "Assault weapon" means:

(i) Any of the following specific firearms regardless of which company produced and manufactured the firearm:

...

AR15, M16, or M4 in all forms

Firearm has a specific definition, which is separate from Frame or receiver.

(20) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder. For the purposes of RCW 9.41.040, "firearm" also includes frames and receivers. "Firearm" does not include a flare gun or other pyrotechnic visual distress signaling device, or a powder-actuated tool or other device designed solely to be used for construction purposes.

You can't fire anything from a lower receiver, it's not a firearm. Washington doesn't define it the same way Federal law does. There's also an exemption in 9.41.010 (2)(c) for certain manually operated arms, which AR lowers can be built into.

(c) "Assault weapon" does not include antique firearms, any firearm that has been made permanently inoperable, or any firearm that is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action.

Finding an FFL who's willing to transfer a lower to you is likely to be near impossible though.

[u/Oedipus____Wrecks → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

The State thinks the lower IS the AR-15 that’s all that matters not your opinion.

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c → u/Oedipus____Wrecks]

This comes up from time to time. Can you show me where the state says the lower is the firearm?

[u/Oedipus____Wrecks → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

Not arguing with ya ee, don’t matter what I think, don’t matter what you think, don’t matter nobody asked us if we wanted this law fact is it’s there nomatter how sad we are, is what it is and wasting time reading over the code like some sociopath thinking we’re gonna find some “gotcha” nobody thought of is a waste of time and frankly pathetic. Move on nobody’s buying or getting any ars or aks or anything else cool ever again in WA if you didn’t plan ahead and you knew it was coming you’re fucked. Move on.

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c → u/Oedipus____Wrecks]

wasting time reading over the code like some sociopath thinking we’re gonna find some “gotcha” nobody thought of is a waste of time and frankly pathetic.

I think it's important to understand the law, regardless of what might happen in practice. Otherwise there's no point to the law at all, right? If the law is meaningless, how do people understand what the standards are for operating in society? How do people make a risk/reward analysis if they consider breaking from those standards?

The State thinks the lower IS the AR-15

I'm not asking you to argue, I'm asking you to show me, and demonstrate that what you're saying is true.

[u/GatterCatter → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

He can’t.

[u/GatterCatter → u/Oedipus____Wrecks]

You’ve literally made a counter argument to his comment.

Why don’t you be a douche again and tell this guy you have more ARs than him and call him “kid” like you did to the other guy a couple days ago?

Oh so reading over laws to understand them is pathetic huh? Great take /s

[u/Oedipus____Wrecks → u/GatterCatter]

Psychology man, think about it… If the guys worried about getting an AR platform he ain’t got enough right? I ain’t worried, got plenty.

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c → u/Oedipus____Wrecks]

If the guys worried about getting an AR platform he ain’t got enough right?

You don't seem to understand why I said what I said, and that is probably a failure on my part to clearly explain.

The purpose isn't to acquire state-defined Assault Weapons through some "loophole" by meticulously examining the law. The purpose is to understand what is actually legally permissible.

• My take is that an AR-15 lower by itself is not defined as an Assault Weapon, because it's not a firearm.

• 9.41.010 (20) clearly explains what a firearm is. Lower receivers don't meet that definition, except in the case of 9.41.040: Unlawful possession of firearms. 9.41.390: Assault weapons—Manufacturing, importing, distributing, selling prohibited doesn't prohibit possession. This supports the idea that you can replace a lower receiver for purposes of repair. It's a part according to the state, not a firearm.

• 9.41.010 (2)(a)(i) lists firearms which are defined as Assault Weapons explicitly by name.

• 9.41.010 (2)(c) exempts any firearm that meets certain conditions, most relevant here are certain types of manually operated actions.

(c) "Assault weapon" does not include antique firearms, any firearm that has been made permanently inoperable, or any firearm that is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or slide action.

It doesn't say "any firearm, except AR15s" or "any firearm, except AR15 lower receivers". It says any firearm. This supports the idea that you can legally construct manually operated arms from AR-15 lower receivers.

I think understanding whether or not you can legally import something into the state, and whether a dealer can legally sell it to you (even if most just won't do it), is pretty important. It's a part of making basic risk versus reward assessments. It helps you understand if certain repairs are permissible, or if that bolt action AR15 you've always wanted to build is legal.

If the state is going to infringe on your rights, don't help them expand that infringement by accepting and promoting things that don't have any legal basis. I'm open to the idea that I could be wrong, but I need you to clearly and definitively show me where and how I'm wrong.

[u/Oedipus____Wrecks → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

Fair enough. I’m just voting to put you in charge of the thinking from now on just tell me where to go to protest, what to vote and do. I’m come across way too assholishness when imma fooling around snarky people don’t like or git it, I git it. I’m with you though no mistake. Thanks!

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c → u/Oedipus____Wrecks]

You're good, thanks for talking it out. Happy New Year.

[u/Oedipus____Wrecks → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

Yeah I can’t walk away if I’m being a douche gotta be clear, imma turd sandwich not a diuche! Heh heh Have a great new year’s and be safe! 💥

[u/joelnicity → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

You don’t have to agree, that’s the way the laws are written

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c → u/joelnicity]

Can you show me where the state says the lower is the firearm?

[u/GatterCatter → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

I love how you’re referencing the law and pointing out the discrepancy and the commenters are like..yea but the laws don’t say lowers aren’t firearms..while not referencing any of the laws.

[u/Deathmaster509 → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

An FFL was required to transfer a lower receiver into your possession. An upper receiver or any other non NFA accessories can be shipped directly to you.

ATF designations as of 2022 here: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/definition-frame-or-receiver

Washington State follows those definitions for ARs.

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c → u/Deathmaster509]

An FFL was required to transfer a lower receiver into your possession. An upper receiver or any other non NFA accessories can be shipped directly to you.

There is no state where you can have a lower receiver shipped directly to you, because the federal government defines a lower receiver as a firearm. The section I'm referring to is codified in 18 USC 921 (a)(3)(B).

(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;

Washington law doesn't define a frame or receiver this way. There are two separate terms defining Firearm versus Frame or Receiver. These are laid out in RCW 9.41.010.

(20) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder. For the purposes of RCW 9.41.040, "firearm" also includes frames and receivers. "Firearm" does not include a flare gun or other pyrotechnic visual distress signaling device, or a powder-actuated tool or other device designed solely to be used for construction purposes.

(21)(a) "Frame or receiver" means a part of a firearm that, when the complete firearm is assembled, is visible from the exterior and provides housing or a structure designed to hold or integrate one or more fire control components, even if pins or other attachments are required to connect the fire control components. Any such part identified with a serial number shall be presumed, absent an official determination by the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives or other reliable evidence to the contrary, to be a frame or receiver.

I am not aware of any point where frames and receivers are defined as firearms in Washington law. Firearms, and frames and receivers are consistently differentiated. For example, 9.41.111 deals with transfers of frames and receivers.

(2) A dealer may not deliver a firearm frame or receiver to a purchaser or transferee unless the dealer first conducts a background check of the applicant through the state firearms background check system and the requirements and time periods in RCW 9.41.092 have been satisfied.

• RCW 9.41.111

Firearms sales, transfers, and background checks are separate, in 9.41.113. If frames and receivers were defined as firearms, there would be no need to have separate sections dealing with frames and receivers.

I'm also not aware of any place in Washington law where AR-15 lowers are treated differently than other lowers.

Washington State follows those definitions for ARs

Can you point me to where Washington has codified this in state law? I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong, but I need a clear picture of how and why I'm wrong.

[u/Deathmaster509 → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

You didn't read what I commented. I said in the beginning that you CAN'T have a lower shipped to you, but you CAN have an upper & other NON NFA accessories shipped to you. I also said the state FOLLOWS what the Feds say because there isn't a specific code that I know of that states otherwise.

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c → u/Deathmaster509]

You didn't read what I commented.

I assure you I did.

I said in the beginning that you CAN'T have a lower shipped to you

Correct. I clarified that can't happen in any state due to federal regulations. It's not special or specific to Washington.

I also said the state FOLLOWS what the Feds say because there isn't a specific code that I know of that states otherwise.

You're not aware of any place where a receiver is defined as a firearm in state law. That would mean that 9.41.010 (2)(a)(i) likely does not define AR-15 lower receivers as firearms, because it would break from the rest of state law.

[u/Deathmaster509 → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

I understand what you're trying to say, but for the sake of OP, this discussion isn't helping him.

I'd suggest a gunsmith to assess whether the threads can be repaired or not

[u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c → u/Deathmaster509]

I agree, that's more practical for OP's immediate predicament. Thanks for taking the time to talk about it.

[u/Deathmaster509 → u/ee-5e-ae-fb-f6-3c]

Same to you for being civil.

[u/Waaaash]

Buy a new lower. Transfer everything over. It's fine. Lowers are not firearms as far as the state is concerned. Call FFLs until you find one that's willing to sell or transfer you a lower.

[u/Neither-Dragonfly274 → u/Waaaash]

This.

[u/Siemze → u/Waaaash]

Assault weapon of Theseus

[u/ryashon01]

If you can’t find anyone to help you transfer a lower you could always chop it off and flatten it out to make a Perun X16.

https://www.aea-arms.com/online-store/Perun-X16-16-GPR-UPPER-p514869427

[u/Few_Environment_8851]

How bad are the threads?

[u/FIRESTOOP]

Not likely. Your best route would be seeing if a local smith could do anything about the damaged threads.

While you’re allowed to purchase replacement parts, the lower receiver isn’t a part in the eyes of the law. It is the firearm itself. Purchasing another lower would be purchasing another receiver that can readily be made into an “assault weapon”.

It’s BS but that’s how it is.

[u/shortbarrelflamer]

Fuck em. Go to Idaho or any state in the Midwest or South and just buy another blank lower and then keep your mouth shut about it for 2 years

[u/Marinersteve1]

Post of pic of the damage

[u/Catsnpotatoes]

You should be able to buy it since it's not manufacturing a new AW.Ig all depends on how whatever place you order from interprets the law though. Probably would be worth checking in you LGS to see if it's in stock there if you wanna be really sure.

Edit: is it the buffer tube or the threads on the receiver that are damaged?

[u/No_Purchase3279 → u/Catsnpotatoes]

Thanks! It’s the threads on the reciever itself. A couple of them appeared to be pulled slightly and I can’t get any of my buffer tubes to thread in more than half way.

[u/Realist1976 → u/No_Purchase3279]

That is unusual damage, any idea how that happened? If you find it impossible to get another lower, which is quite likely as not sure any FFL will do it. A competent machine shop should be able to repair the threads for you, maybe simply by running a tap through them from the receiver side, I.e. starting from the good threads side. The results would not be as strong as new, but you shouldn’t need them to be… that being said, no idea how you managed to damage them in the first places, so if that kind of event happens regularly, it’s going to redamage the threads.

[u/No_Purchase3279 → u/Realist1976]

I removed a knock off law tactical folding adapter that I installed a few years back and as far as I can tell, there was some galling that took place, potentially because I didn’t use enough antisieze on the adapter. Lesson learned. The machine shop is a good idea. I’ll look into that. Thanks.

[u/Realist1976 → u/No_Purchase3279]

Sounds like the threads are mostly fine and just need cleaning up, I bet there’s a machine shop or a gunsmith out there that would do that for next to free. Or you could buy the tap, looks to be a 13/16 - 16 (please verify) and can be had on amazon for about $35 or down to $25 on eBay. Don’t need an expensive one as you’re literally going to use it once. You shouldn’t need a tap handle or anything else as you’re not making new threads just cleaning up what is there, turn the tap by hand and just use a crescent wrench if you need more leverage when you get to the messed up threads. Probably want to run it starting from the receiver side so have a good run of nice threads to make sure you’re all lined up. It should not be cutting those at all and the tap should just spin in until you hit the galling or messed up threads. Use oil and make sure you’re not cross threading and I bet you’ll be good to go in just a couple minutes.

[u/Catsnpotatoes → u/No_Purchase3279]

OHH I thought you meant the buffer tube. So for the receiver I don't know if you'd be able to get a new one with the law but you might be able to take it to a gunsmith.

[u/Box_Dread]

Ask you local gun stores to see if any of them would be willing to transfer you a new lower