r/UFOs • u/ehll_oh_ehll • Apr 27 '20
Statement by the Department of Defense on the Release of Historical Navy Videos Resource
https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/2165713/statement-by-the-department-of-defense-on-the-release-of-historical-navy-videos/70
u/datadrone Apr 27 '20
the coverup is they are coming from the oceans not space
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u/JohnConnor7 Apr 27 '20
It's the dolphins.
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u/sipep212 Apr 28 '20
Exactly. This should be the top comment. I haven't trusted those bottle nosed bastards since Flipper.
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u/TheMillenniumMan Apr 28 '20
The Simpsons are right again! Only a matter of time until they come back on land and take over.
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u/windsynth Apr 28 '20
but they have been tracked in space as well as water, so both
but yes, mermaids and mermen are real and are descended from shrimpanzees
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Apr 28 '20
I think they are alien drones that hide in the ocean or underneath the ocean floor and basically just monitor planets...I bet they have sent out so many of these that they probably don't give a fuck about us because we're just another planet to them. The concept of an automated surveying drone is definitely not out there, especially ones that zip around at that speed and seem to not really care when spotted. If actual alien beings were here I wouldn't understand why they'd just lurk around, but A.i operated drones that maybe use wormholes or something to get around is likely I'd say.
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u/Pied67 Apr 27 '20
I'd agree that they are probably inhabiting some undersea building/dwelling/base - they could also have something similar on the moon or Mars. I expect that they come from much further away though. And if we're in agreement that they're here, then I wonder just who "they" are. It could be many different species...I hope we find out soon!
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u/Skuzmak73 Apr 28 '20
The damned sharks have been playing possum, their technology is far more advanced than ours. Fricking laser beams indeed.
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u/fuufnfr Apr 27 '20 edited Apr 28 '20
For some people involved in the UFO subject this might not mean much. But for the UFO subject as a whole, this is a historic moment.
The first ever official UFO videos from the US government.
People have been dreaming of this for over 70 years. And now here we are.
Ignore all the drama for a moment and just focus on that. This is a moment for the history books.
Stamp of approval, its official.
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u/ChocolateMorsels Apr 27 '20
I know we've known about these videos for years and the Navy has already acknowledged them as real...but it's still so surreal to see the government acknowledge the crafts were unidentified. Makes me wonder why they bothered to confirm this video at all instead of ignoring.
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Apr 27 '20 edited Apr 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/ChocolateMorsels Apr 27 '20
The aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as "unidentified."
Seems to me they are specifically talking about the craft or the "UAPs".
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u/ryancleg Apr 27 '20
I think he's trying to say that the DOD never said they were crafts. They just said the phenomena was unidentified.
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u/redranger84 Apr 27 '20
I think there’s only two possibilities here:
This is the real deal. These videos show genuine alien built and piloted vehicles.
This is technology that is derived from acquired alien technology, whether by means of crash retrieval or some kind of arrangement.
Either way, the way these things fly would require an enormous amount of power and an inertial mass damper (assuming something living is inside). Nothing organic could survive those maneuvers without a way to counter the effects.
I truly believe the tech behind what we are seeing was not initially developed here.
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Apr 28 '20 edited Apr 28 '20
No way these crafts are manned. They're probably drones on a scouting mission piloted by an alien AI. We do it too. Selfdriving cars are a thing. Unmanned drones are a thing (though not as sophisticated). It's an anthropomorphic argument, but why wouldn't ETs also use their tech like humans? Or another civilization has achieved the technological singularity and these drones are self replicating powered by a god-like AI, the remnants of a long extinct civilization (did their AI wipe them out?). Now the question would be: why are they here? What are they scouting for? First wave to prepare for something bigger (unlikely) or just curious?
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u/redranger84 Apr 28 '20
All very good points! I do think some of the crafts are “manned”, though.
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Apr 28 '20
Some could be manned. Like the triangle UFOs for sure. Which could also mean that there are different races of ETs interested in this planet. Maybe earth is a galactic zoo, and they are just on a safari. 👽
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u/redranger84 Apr 28 '20
From the witness reports of the triangle ones, I tend to think they are human-built, alien-derived.
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Apr 28 '20
If the Bob Lazar story is true, then you are correct. Anything flying in crafts like this at these speeds for the duration of time needed to get here would most definitely be robotic probes, probably in the likeness of their creator, and it’s weird how “aliens” resemble humans... kinda like we created them, like perhaps humans sent out probes thousands of years ago and then we got wiped out and had to start over, and now these things have been periodically returning with nowhere to go, their computers of the landscape (earth’s terrain) no longer align, so they’re crashing into fields or plunging into the ocean.
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u/frontadmiral Apr 28 '20
It’s basically impossible to believe that we could have had the technology to create something like this and not found evidence of that since then.
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u/JBrody Apr 28 '20
Agreed. You really have to reach to come up with a scenario that any group of humans could have had advanced tech like that in the past.
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u/Irishpersonage May 13 '20
The fact that earth's resources haven't already been mined in a good indicator
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Apr 28 '20
Well according to Lazar, we have. He said all the crafts they had, he was told, were discovered in an archeological dig. That means they were buried, depending on the soil samples, probably date back 10,000 years.
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u/riorio55 Apr 28 '20
I don't think he said all of them were found in archaeological digs. I think it was just one that he was told was dug up. Still crazy to think about though.
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u/MenShouldntHaveCats Apr 28 '20
I mean if that was true we would find all kinds of artifacts of a past great civilization
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u/Randy_g123 Apr 28 '20
Im inclined to believe theres a 3rd option , the "Graham hancock" that past civilazations were far more advanced than previously thought and may have taken a different route in terms of technology rather than going from the steam engine , combustion engine etc ... simply figuring things out in a different way earlier on (also could just be foreign gov craft but i like stoking the fire)
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u/BeeGravy Apr 28 '20
It's just way too far beyond where we are now, if anyone had reverses engineered the tech and created a vehicle capable of this, the tech would have leaked out to other projects and sectors. It breaks what we fundamentally know about how aircraft can operate, and would immediately change all of our transportation and space programs.
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u/PurestVideos Apr 27 '20
Bob Lazar is sounding more and more sane
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u/redranger84 Apr 27 '20
His story is definitely worth another look. Commander David Fravor (The one who saw the Tic-Tac) basically said he believes Lazar on the Rogan podcast.
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Apr 28 '20
I hope he takes your advice. The path he's on has a lot of deadends when you assume you know everything. There's sooo much more to this.
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u/peterrabbit88867 Apr 27 '20
I would not rule out its experimental human technology or many other possibilities than the two you listed here. We do not even know for sure that it’s even technology.
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u/redranger84 Apr 27 '20 edited Apr 28 '20
I lean towards technology simply due to to the data gathered. While we are only seeing videos, the Nimitz did get multiple radar hits. They scrambled jets multiple times. We are also only seeing IR which is showing a definitive "shape" of something.
Also this: "Fravor reports that an operations officer on the USS Princeton directed him to fly to a Combat Air Patrol, or cap, point 60 miles away. Within moments, the Princeton reported to Fravor that the UFOs were at his cap point."
The fact that his cap point was intercepted demonstrates communications monitoring and intelligence of some kind.
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u/JBrody Apr 28 '20
They could be very efficient and figured out something that does not require a massive amount of energy.
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u/National_Pianist Apr 29 '20
The guy who was responsible for the in flight recordings of this actual event thinks it could be US tech. Anyone in the military would know about a lot of shit most of us wouldn't.
This guy was there when they confiscated the flight hard drives since the plane would have recorded anything and everything about the ufo. Including any signals it was sending or receiving.
I think it's an extraterrestrial. Human tech can't do what it done.
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u/foggy01 Apr 27 '20 edited Apr 27 '20
Was it the FLIR1 video from Nimitz that was supposed to be 10 minutes long with much better quality than what we have now according to few witnesses?
My god if that would leak, it would change a lot of peoples mind. Do you think if the really delicious stuff (like the mentioned video or the dummy nuclear missile getting shut down) is in a database or they just have physical copies of the tape for security reasons?
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u/fenasi_kerim Apr 28 '20
dummy nuclear missile getting shut down
Out of the loop, what is this??
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u/morbidbattlecry Apr 28 '20
I can't find the exact record of the incident, but long story short, sometime in the 50/60's videographer for the army that records and tracks rocket and missile tests( they use a telescope with a camera attached to it) unknowingly tracked a UFO circling and eventually shooting down a test missile. It was only realized after the film real was processed. A couple of guys showed up and told him not to talk about it. He ending up being a high ranking member of the military and then started talking about the incident.
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u/DrenchThunderman2 Apr 28 '20
Without a reliable source, it's just a story.
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u/69RandomUsername69 Apr 28 '20
This is the Airforce Lieutenant who witnessed it, on Larry King. There are four parts and they talk about different cases with multiple witnesses. This hit is a good one but it's definitely worth watching all 4 parts.
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u/AVeryMadLad2 Apr 28 '20
Look up UFOs and Nukes, talks about the history of the UFO phenomenon and how it seems to occur disproportionately around nuclear sites
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u/killerkongfu Apr 28 '20
I have one question. WHO decided to release this? It just says DOD but not who in the DOD authorized this. Get that information and we have a good lead on who to talk to next.
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u/JBrody Apr 28 '20 edited Apr 28 '20
I'm not able to find anything but I want to say that the Navy did everything but come out and confirm (when the videos came out). Knowing the little bit that I know about how long it takes minor actions that are not classified to clear a DoD agency's public affairs group, something like this has probably been in process for years and will have been touched by many. I don't think we will ever know who got the ball rolling on this.
Now if your question is who was final approval authority then I would say current Sec Def, Mark Esper. Even if he did not sign off on this he would have been consulted prior to release. As a contractor being requested to review some of our own documents by an agency we had dealings with in the past, some of the PCOs I worked with would have to notify the HCA (Head of Contracting Activity who is going to also be director of the agency) and get their blessing prior to releasing anything on fbo.gov (where you make the public aware of contract actions such as RFPs).
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u/1mg-Of-Epinephrine Apr 28 '20
Louis elizondo got the ball rolling on the releases of these video a few years ago. Ttsa has been driving these disclosures, however minor some may see them, for several years.
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u/zoziw Apr 27 '20
My take is that Elizondo (and Mellon?) found a way to smuggle these videos out without getting themselves into trouble. I don't believe either of them would have done this if there was even a remote chance they were secret US tech.
Everything I have heard up until this point leads me to believe these are genuine UFOs and also that the TTSA has nothing left in the tank as far as credible evidence goes.
(hey, over the last two years I have been able to streamline my opinions of this down to two paragraphs)
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u/Green_Christmas_Ball Apr 28 '20
solid point. There isn't a chance in hell if this was US tech it would ever reach the public.
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u/HamlindigoBlue7 Apr 28 '20
Unless it is a deep intelligence operation to confuse our enemies and hide our hyper-advanced tech.... I am on your side but I have to acknowledge that possibility with the CIA’s long history of manipulation of public information.
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Apr 28 '20
If this were our technology it would change our world forever.
This is probably about 500 years ahead of our current understanding/technological capability.
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u/S3Dzyy Apr 28 '20 edited Apr 28 '20
Lmaoo "we have determined that the unidentified objects in the footage are indeed unidentified"
cheers for the update lads
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u/Randy_g123 Apr 28 '20
"The aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as "unidentified." " not sure where you got that from but the actual link itself quotes this
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u/S3Dzyy Apr 28 '20
Yeah I know I was just making fun of the unnecessary update since nothing really changed
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u/Randy_g123 Apr 28 '20
I'm just glad to see it remains unidentified haha i read your quote and assumed the gov figured it out my bad
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u/Riordjj Apr 28 '20
Slow and steady wins the race. Drop drop drop until we have an ocean. We are not alone my friends.
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u/National_Pianist Apr 28 '20
There are 5 US Navy soldiers who saw this thing up close and personal and were forced to sign NDAs. The plane they were flying in would have picked up every single piece of data known to man from these Tic Tacs. The USAF knows much, much more about these things.
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u/Brock-Murphy Apr 28 '20
Absolutely. These exact same objects have been photographed, witnessed and documented since the early 50’s. Same speed, shape, size and movement. Not their 1st time at the rodeo. Or ours.
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u/BeeGravy May 05 '20
Navy would be sailors or seamen. Soldier is generally for Army, sometimes Marine also referred to as soldier but its not really correct. Just a heads up
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u/ehll_oh_ehll Apr 27 '20
Mirror
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Statement by the Department of Defense on the Release of Historical Navy Videos
APRIL 27, 2020
The Department of Defense has authorized the release of three unclassified Navy videos, one taken in November 2004 and the other two in January 2015, which have been circulating in the public domain after unauthorized releases in 2007 and 2017. The U.S. Navy previously acknowledged that these videos circulating in the public domain were indeed Navy videos. After a thorough review, the department has determined that the authorized release of these unclassified videos does not reveal any sensitive capabilities or systems, and does not impinge on any subsequent investigations of military air space incursions by unidentified aerial phenomena. DOD is releasing the videos in order to clear up any misconceptions by the public on whether or not the footage that has been circulating was real, or whether or not there is more to the videos. The aerial phenomena observed in the videos remain characterized as "unidentified." The released videos can be found at the Naval Air Systems Command FOIA Reading Room: https://www.navair.navy.mil/foia/documents.
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u/flexylol Apr 27 '20
I am one of these who sees these NAVY clips as less than spectacular, "smoking gun" material than most here. In fact, for me these are conventional craft of some type and there is not much in the clips which would indicate "UFO-like" behaviour let alone something unexplained.
Indeed, the NAVY now openly using the expression "unidentified" strikes me as unusual -plus there is some ambiguity which I don't like. I think it's important that people recognize this, rather than mis-interpreting these clips as some sort of "official smoking gun" evidence which IMO it isn't.
Let me explain:
"characterized as "unidentified." <-- means very little.
If these clips show something classified, the NAVY or whatever gvt branch can't and won't release any information on these as what we see is...well, CLASSIFIED.
They are "characterized as unidentified" <-- does it mean these objects are (!) indeed unidentified (aka: unknown) to the NAVY, or does it merely mean that yes, indeed, someone "characterized them as unidentified". (As opposed to telling you what exactly it is, which of course they won't, especially if it's classified tech)
Meaning "characterized as 'unidentified' leaves open whether it's known, by someone, what these objects are. This is how I read this.
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u/toadster Apr 28 '20
Why is a guy like Commander David Fravor backing the UFO story though? It's the oddest part of all of this if these videos are of nothing extraordinary.
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u/BUTTFLECK Apr 27 '20
By video alone it is not phenomenal... but descriptions and summaries laid out by the people involved it becomes something else.
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u/n00bvin Apr 27 '20
I'm mostly in this camp. In fact, if this were at all "incredible" then I don't believe the Navy would release any information beyond what was leaked. This must not be viewed as any type of threat whatsoever if release in this manner. That's just not how things work. If the military doesn't know exactly what something is, it's classified.
If these are truly unidentified in the generic sense, then it would be a complete unknown if they were a threat to National Security. They either know exactly what these are or they're misinformation.
Do I think any pilots or crew are lying? No. It doesn't have to be one or another. Crew is left clueless a lot.
I think this is very all likely misinformation. It's really the only thing that makes sense. Why in the world would they want to get this UFO community all riled up? This community is full of many sane people, but a whole log of whacky people. The kind you just don't throw bones to like this. It's like the CIA all of a sudden coming out and saying, "You know what, maybe we did have something to do with killing JFK." or the Pentagon coming out and saying, "That 9/11 thing? Maybe we did know." Even if those things were true, they would never be said. I'm not even a conspiracy type guy and I think the Navy is faking it here.
You really think they just want to clear things up with this?
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u/skrzitek Apr 28 '20
I think that's a very important point. "characterized as "unidentified"" has the look of an admission that they genuinely don't know what these things are, but the 'scare quotes' around 'unidentified' suggest to me it could mean anything really. The videos were certainly in a TV show called 'Unidentified' :P
To add to this - the Go Fast and Gimbal videos are apparently from the same pilots and - in my view - clearly just snippets of longer videos. There is so much missing context here, it's really hard to know what to make of anything.
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Apr 28 '20
I have a question about this. If there were actually unidentified aircraft flying so close to US soil and so frequently, wouldn’t the government be freaking out? Making a bigger deal about trying to intercept and find out what they are?
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u/Paperwork-HSI Apr 28 '20
The government has had these videos for years. They’ve either a) already done their “freaking out” or b) considered it a non-threat and moved on. Either way, peasants like us wouldn’t know.
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Apr 28 '20
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u/Paperwork-HSI Apr 28 '20
Or d) you’re out of your fucking mind.
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u/toadster Apr 28 '20
Something big is coming down the pipe.
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u/Paperwork-HSI Apr 28 '20
I’d be all for it, believe me. But this isn’t the first time the gov has sat on videos before declassifying them.
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u/DrenchThunderman2 Apr 28 '20
People have been saying that since 1947. Don't hold your breath.
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u/Brock-Murphy Apr 29 '20
It’s a long pipe. You have to hold your breath for awhile to hear anything official. You haven’t had to hold your breathe to know of their existence. Government validation has never been the prerequisite for knowing they exist.
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Apr 28 '20
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u/Paperwork-HSI Apr 28 '20
The Bible is also littered with patricide, slaughter of women and children, and misogyny.
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u/Upamechano Apr 28 '20
patricide, slaughter of women and children, and misogyny.
♪♪ These are a few of my favourite things...♪♪
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u/Brock-Murphy Apr 29 '20
Why don’t you tell that to the Pentagon, the radar and sonar operators on the carrier and the 5 Navy pilots?
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u/Paperwork-HSI Apr 29 '20
Yea let me just call em up, seeing as I have their personal numbers right here...
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u/Brock-Murphy Apr 29 '20
Or, since the Pentagon made it official today call the Pentagon press office. They won’t give you their numbers but they’ll give you their names. You can look up their numbers. They’re hiding nothing. Have told all in interviews.
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u/brereddit Apr 28 '20
You aren’t familiar with the story are you? That’s exactly what they did. That’s why someone leaked the video originally.
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Apr 28 '20
One of the accounts says they saw these things every day for a long time. What’s the deal?? Catch one. Shoot one. Take a better video of one.
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u/brereddit Apr 28 '20
We are dealing with superior technology. There’s absolutely nothing we can do. The best we can do is what they did: dispatch pilots to study the phenomenon. They have to send pilots in case our enemies have new tech that is better than ours. But once they realize it isn’t earthly tech, they know there’s nothing they can do.
These things have shut down missile silos with nuclear missiles. Some have also said they armed the missiles and made it seem like they were going to launch them.
Pick up Leslie Kean’s book on UFO’s
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u/UFOIdeas Apr 28 '20
Yea, this a good UFO book.
And maybe let's not try to shoot them down... it seems like there are other things to try fist. Let's not "poke it with a stick to see what happens" :)
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u/computerviruses Apr 28 '20
Who looked like they were going to launch? Ours or the UFO?
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u/brereddit Apr 29 '20
There have been multiple incidents. They have hovered over our nuclear missile silos and shut everything down. On other occasions they have apparently turned the missiles on and brought them to launch mode without any of our protocols.
Imo, this is known among our military—not broadly—but as people who were involved.
I think what this means is these other intelligent beings have made clear that nuclear war on earth is unacceptable. I could be wrong but that’s my opinion.
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u/filmfan10 Apr 29 '20
There have been several reports of UFO sightings at military nuclear silo installations. These have happened in the US, UK, and Russia.
During some of the encounters, soldiers said their nuclear missile systems malfunctioned. They say that sometimes it looked like the nuclear missiles were about to launch.
The thinking is that the UFOs detected the presence of nuclear missiles at these military installations. And then the UFOs manipulated the military base technology. The UFOs were basically showing off their capabilities.
If you want to know more I recommend the book/video "UFOs and Nukes" It is very cool stuff
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u/drag0nw0lf Apr 28 '20
Have you heard Colonel Fravor’s interviews? They’re gone in less than a second. Exactly how are we suppose to catch or shoot one?
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u/1mg-Of-Epinephrine Apr 28 '20
They admit to having a ton of videos they aren’t releasing.
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Apr 28 '20
But why? So they don’t scare us? I just don’t see the point if it could really be a national threat, the government is usually so over the top with safety.
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u/1mg-Of-Epinephrine Apr 28 '20
It’s not a threat. They’ve been around since the 40’s en masse. There’s a number of different reasons why it’s kept quiet.
According to declassified docs.
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u/Brock-Murphy Apr 29 '20
Yes. Possibly not TO scare us then in turn panic us. We don’t know what they’re doing. Maybe we THINK we want to know but possibly when confronted with it we’ll wish we wouldn’t have known. However - I doubt that it’s to help us have a better life. If so, why all of the stealth?
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u/Brock-Murphy Apr 29 '20
They ARE and they HAVE. But if you were the U.S. military would you be anxious to announce to the United States that “your airspace is regularly being violated and we don’t know who or what it is and can do nothing to prevent it.” ?
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u/1mg-Of-Epinephrine Apr 28 '20
They have been for a long time and we know this from their own documents and gov and military witnesses.
Scroll down to quotes:
Gov documents are al over.
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u/CaerBannog Apr 27 '20
I've never seen any branch of the US Government speak with candour about operations of any sort in my lifetime and I see little reason to trust anything they have to say now. We've been lied to about UAP research data for decades, people. There's always some fucking routine going on.
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u/meesa-jar-jar-binks Apr 27 '20
I have to agree. It is pretty obvious that the US government went dark on UFO research in the late 40‘s. In the early days they were somewhat openly admitting that the phenomenon is being investigated (project sign, project grudge), but they completely changed their strategy to one of denial and derision after project bluebook.
I can really recommend the book „UFO‘s and Government - A Historical Inquiry“. It‘s one of the best researched books I‘ve seen on the subject, and the best thing is that the authors never loose themselves in speculation. It’s all about the historical aspects of the UFO phenomenon and everything is well sourced.
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u/CaerBannog Apr 27 '20
The main issue here I think boils down to basic binary needs.
There's no benefit in a party revealing knowledge about intel "treasure" that undermines authority or trust in authority within the public, even if it is in the best interests of the public to know the truth from an ethical standpoint. The only outcome is a reduction of standing of the bureaucracy or agencies representing the government hence a lessening in their mandate and ability to govern etc, since they are then seen to have hidden this info from the populace for x amount of years.
Even if these statements are a priori true, it is difficult to believe that such an agency would admit them, since it does not directly benefit them in any strategic way, unless there is some kind of hidden counter-espionage work going on against some other actor. The best mode of action is to remain silent unless one's hand is forced.
Looking at history one might infer some hidden variable or motive causing this tactic, such as in a counter-espionage process.
IMHO the evidence strongly suggests no one really knows what UAP "are" in a tangible sense, under such circumstances it would not be in an agency's benefit to reveal the reality of the phenomenon until they know what it is or can exploit it, for instance as weapons delivery platforms. Since we don't see that occurring at all over the last 50-60 years, I think it is safe to say the technology - if that is what it is - is unknown.
If the agencies know what the phenomenon is, then the released statements are lies, ergo we should default to not believing the statements.
I'm really tired and buzzed so my logic may be screwed up.
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u/P1ne4pple8 Apr 27 '20
I’m really interested in your points but you’re going to have to dumb it down for me. So you’re saying that they know what these are and are playing dumb?
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u/CaerBannog Apr 28 '20
They don't know what they are. They do know they are real. Telling the public that UFOs are real but the government doesn't understand them would undermine their authority and perceived ability to protect the populace, and reveal that the public have been lied to for 70 years. IOW it does them no favours to admit the truth.
Because they don't have a true understanding of the phenomenon, authorities appear to want to suppress civilian UAP research so that the government can exploit the phenomenon for military tech first. I think this is the key to the history of UAP.
While I can't prove this, that the US doesn't know what UAP represent beyond the fact of their existence fits the historical evidence, whereas a secret reverse engineering program going back to the '50s does not.
This doesn't mean that the Navy footage is not genuine, but it might indicate some other psyop jiggery fuckery going on with these statements aimed at .. someone? Another agency? Another branch of government?
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u/Brian_E1971 Apr 27 '20
So best guesses as to what these are?
I don't think the Navy/DoD would release these videos if it was our tech. As stated:
" does not reveal any sensitive capabilities or systems "
- This means it's not our research.
"does not impinge on any subsequent investigations of military air space incursions by unidentified aerial phenomena"
- This means it's not anyone else's craft or research that we're aware of.
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Apr 27 '20
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u/MontyAtWork Apr 28 '20
This has ALWAYS been my theory.
"I don't know" is never an acceptable answer to OR from leadership. It's always followed up with "It's your job to know" or "You better find out".
If you're dealing with technology of advanced or alien origin, your natural answer, for a long, long time, will be I Don't Know.
That'll never work for the general public, that'll never work for training purposes as in the case of new pilots, and that'll never work for reports of UAP sent up the chain.
You either send the information you've got with an explanation of what it is or you'd better have that information accompanied by a damned good explanation of why you don't know but are making that ignorance someone else's problem. Anything less is you creating a problem that doesn't exist, which doesn't have a negative affect on you, and requiring someone above you to make that their problem, which means you've got to clearly explain why it's a problem for you.
Just coming to your higher ups with "Here's something we don't understand that happened. It didn't affect our mission, it doesn't appear to be lethal or in the way of anything mission critical, it was so elusive that there's little to even deconstruct or understand beyond the basic bewildering nature of it, and I've now dropped this onto your desk to do something with." - that won't fly.
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u/captain_slackbeard Apr 27 '20
For a while I had a pet theory that this was some other nation, especially after Russia announced they were working on advanced missile tech in 2018. Their low-budget 3D render of the Avangard missile shows a craft visually similar to the one in the Nimitz video, and claimed it could maneuver rapidly. On top of that, there are plenty of nations who would love to demonstrate a superior technology by flying it around in the US Navy's face.
But I no longer believe that theory, for a simple reason: If some nation had fancy tech like this and flew it around just off the coast of the US they would run the risk - no matter how small - of the craft malfunctioning or getting shot down. If that happened it would be a huge political disaster and the US would then retrieve the craft and have gained that technology for free. Not worth it.
I also doubt its a domestic technology after seeing how slow and expensive domestic military projects are, and someone would have leaked it or bragged about it by now.
And there isn't nearly enough evidence here to jump to "aliens".
So I'm honestly out of ideas for what these could be.
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u/DrenchThunderman2 Apr 28 '20
You're not trying very hard. Check out the links a couple of posts up.
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u/naked_supermodels Apr 27 '20
Wellll, maybe.
"does not reveal any sensitive capabilities or systems"
It doesn't reveal anything of theirs, but they're only speaking for the Navy here. The US military is fond of compartmentalization and often one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I do not think they're ours, personally, but we shouldn't conclude this to be the official USG position (if it can even be said there is such a consensus among the various departments involved).
"does not impinge on any subsequent investigations of military air space incursions by unidentified aerial phenomena"
All I can take away from this is that their investigation of these cases is complete and acknowledging them will not impinge upon present or future investigations. I'd appreciate you explaining your take on this a little further.
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u/Brian_E1971 Apr 27 '20
So that second sentence means to me that if they were suspicious of, or actively investigating, a foreign government regarding this matter, then they would have a legitimate reason for not releasing this. But they're basically admitting that they aren't, and so they have no reason not to release.
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u/debacol Apr 27 '20
Bingo. If they believed it was possibly tech from a foreign adversary, there is zero way these videos get released. Because it would basically show our adversary what intel we have on them.
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Apr 27 '20
Exactly. People said those tictacs are some secret military project. I never believed it, and now the official statement confirms it. Whatever it is, it seems the government is as clueless as everyone else. Maybe that's why they released it? In the sense like "we don't know what to do with this footage, you can have it."
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u/debacol Apr 27 '20
My theory is less this and more the Navy trying to strongarm the Air Force into telling them wtf is going on. Remember, the DoD is fucking massive, and as such, the different branches within it aren't always sympatico with one another (ie: they compete for funding, they want to control the intel, etc.). The Air Force, out of any branch of the military, likely has the most intel on UFOs for the past 70 years. They have been radio silent since the end of Blue Book. They likely know much more than they are letting on and the Navy is sick of running into these UAPs, worried about the safety of their pilots, while the Air Force sticks their fingers in their ears.
This was a power play by the Navy to get the Air Force to speak on this. Elizondo is sort of doing the mouthpiece work for the Navy by constantly going on TV, rehashing these videos and events and then, his closing statement is almost always the same: Where is the Air Force on this?
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Apr 27 '20
Now that's interesting. It makes a lot of sense. So it's an in-house fight. Geez, just work together people... it's the only way if mankind wants to move forward into a great Future.
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u/JBrody Apr 27 '20
I've always thought that the US Navy would have the most intel.
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u/debacol Apr 27 '20
No, the Air Force spent the lion's share investigating UFOs in the past. Also, the numerous accounts of UFOs disrupting our nuclear facilities is the purview of the Air Force.
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u/CaerBannog Apr 27 '20
I think you're projecting your desires and beliefs rather too strongly into this.
We have to read between the lines and think about who these statements are directed at, what the political context of them might be in our present time, and what counter-espionage aspects might be involved.
There's no benefit to any agency in saying these things openly if they are true.
One thing to think about is that the US Navy is reputed to have had a hand in UFO matters going back way earlier than the '70s. It was sometimes rumoured when I was getting into UFO research years ago that the US Navy were the real gatekeepers of the UFO intel. Maybe this is to do with the USO issue.
I have no idea if that is true, however I suspect there is weight to it. If you are projecting the naval technological power of the US government over the seas and oceans of the world, you are going to see a lot of shit.
If UAP/USO/UFOs represent an objectively real phenomenon - which they appear to do - then the Navy likely encounter them more often than even the USAF.
I have zero doubt that the US Navy has logged anomalous events numerous times over the last seven decades at least. The Navy has a major presence in intelligence operations to rival any other agency, too.
It is also often suggested that there is strong interservice rivalry between different branches of the US military, and that the Navy has somewhat of a distinct culture and identity. The DoD is supposed to mitigate this schismatic propensity, but it looks like the DoD has its own culture and ideological goals. That factors into all of this as well.
We shouldn't take any of these statements literally because there is no benefit to any government agency in making them, as they are. You have to think about who is making the statements, do they truly represent the views of the different agencies' leadership, are they designed for a particular target's ears. etc.
We have never been told the truth about UAP by any branch of the US government since the 1950s and it is naive to think we are now.
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u/SakuraLite Apr 27 '20
I think in all likelihood you're right - given the history of the phenomenon and the US military's involvement with it, they're likely being disingenuous in some way. But unfortunately there's not much more we can say than that without wildly speculating from our couches of divine knowledge.
There are other hypothetical possibilities we have to account for. Take for example the Wilson memo, which alluded to the idea that the handling of this phenomenon has been compartmentalized for so long, that even government agencies (potentially including branches of the DoD) have been gradually placed back in the dark with the rest of us. Disregard my use of that specific memo as an example given its debatable legitimacy, but the concept of compartmentalization to the point of independent operation is still a possibility in the realm of infinite possibilities we'd be arrogant to pretend we can easily negotiate with our limited information.
My point is, we have to account for the chance that the Navy's statements are in fact genuine. Of course, put up against the chance that they're being disingenuous to serve whatever their agenda may be, it's unlikely. But to say it's impossible would also be disingenuous.
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u/CaerBannog Apr 27 '20
Take for example the Wilson memo, which alluded to the idea that the handling of this phenomenon has been compartmentalized for so long, that even government agencies (potentially including branches of the DoD) have been gradually placed back in the dark with the rest of us.
If the phenomenon is real, that wouldn't work, because there would be ongoing encounters way past the cold war period. And in fact we have strong evidence that encounters persist to this day, at sea and in the air, so I can't see these agencies being ignorant of the reality of the phenomenon, at least.
we have to account for the chance that the Navy's statements are in fact genuine. Of course, put up against the chance that they're being disingenuous to serve whatever their agenda may be
My position is based on game theory and history. They don't have to tell us the truth and they're not motivated by ethics; their job is to protect the populace and that includes lying to them.
Admitting there is stuff flying around that you can't identify and isn't anyone's that you know is tantamount to saying you can't do your phoney baloney job. I don't see any bureaucrat OKing that release.
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u/flexylol Apr 27 '20
I think we need to consider what this public statement really says. Is it really them admitting there are objects on film which they can't identify (which, as you already said I think) would be remarkable...and also in some strange way not in any beneficial/constructive to say this.....or is it merely them stating "yes, these objects remain characterized as unidentified".
Maybe I am getting hung up on semantics there...but I read it as not meaning too much.
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u/SakuraLite Apr 27 '20
I agree with all of that, but it still lends to the hypothesis that there must be some kind of thorough compartmentalization going on. I'm not sure how else any department could have enough information to be disingenuous with their handling of it, but still keep it under wraps enough to appear completely naive for decades on end. An independent agency doesn't have to operate outside of the US government chain of command altogether, but could certainly operate outside of the traditional chain, with the majority given orders to do nothing more than report.
I mean, it all comes down to who you define as "they", and how the flow of this kind of information is handled between a US pilot and the SecDef.
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u/SVCalifornia301 Apr 27 '20
I think your are correct about the Navy likely seeing the phenomena of UAP worldwide more so than the AF. And it is driving the service internally to address the encounters more forthrightly.
The service won’t say more than it knows but it appears to know little. As Fravor has noted the intelligence side confiscated most of the evidence. That side knows far more.
It also suggests to me that it is on-going and this is not the beginning of an end but the end of a beginning...
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u/Brian_E1971 Apr 27 '20
So I'm projecting my desires and beliefs too strongly in this? Which ones were those again - I didn't see where I listed them.
One thing to think about is that the US Navy is reputed to have had a hand in UFO matters going back way earlier than the '70s.
We have never been told the truth about UAP by any branch of the US government since the 1950s and it is naive to think we are now.
Methinks you don't know the meaning of projection and beliefs very much good...
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u/wombo23 Apr 28 '20
There’s no way in hell the government would hide aliens at Area 51. Maybe in the 40s but now I would think they’d be in some abandoned underground building owned by the state government. Probably on one of the islands in Alaska.
I would say the same thing with UFOs
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u/BeeGravy Apr 28 '20
I think they probably started moving a lot of it to "private" owned research companies that are outside of any type of govt oversight and free from FOIA requests. A mix of that and super high level security clearance military labs.
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u/Slinginthemeat Apr 28 '20
Watch the joe rogan podcast with one of the pilots. David Fravor. Very interesting...
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u/bukminster Apr 30 '20
Just watched it, very interesting indeed. I have trouble wrapping my mind over the fact that the radar operators knew something was out there for weeks, but Fraver wasn't given that information until he flew to intercept those objects.
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Apr 28 '20
I'm confused, haven't these videos and this information been out for over a year? Why are people just talking about it now?
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Apr 28 '20
Before now they've been circulating due to unauthorized releases. People are talking about it now because the Pentagon just officially authorized their release.
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u/Video_Drop Apr 28 '20
What would be earth shattering, paradigm changing, life altering and spectacular beyond all measures is that if any of these videos showed anything more than blurry and indistinct tiny blobs of more than a 25 pixels across.
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u/H3RM1TT Apr 28 '20
Or if the Pentagon released videos that I haven't already poured over. These three videos are nothing new to me.
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u/Brock-Murphy Apr 29 '20
They seemed to want to do so two weekends in a row in July 1952 over the Nation’s Capitol. It’s possible they don’t understand reticence or fear the way we do. That may have just been a miscalculation.
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u/bigodiel Apr 27 '20
Disclosing what's been disclosed. What are they, sidelining TTSA?
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u/Joe_and_Suds Apr 27 '20
Right? they only released what was already released. One of the videos even cuts out mid sentence!
How do we get the whole video??
Is there ever a paper trail (chain of custody) of what service members/offices the foia offices have to check with to get items released? I'm sure those foia jobs are just contractors who follow their checklists to a T (as all contractors do beep boop beep no offense).
But The real people to get to, with access to the files, are the ones the foia contractors are contacting during the process. Finding that office in the Navy would be a good bit of info.
Gotta pull on that thread a bit more than just foia requests...
I'm sure there are plenty of people on Reddit here who are still currently serving cough cough but 99% of the time no one really knows a good start point for research if you are more than 2 degrees separated from an incident. Having names and offices is a good start to vector in on.
But I dunno, just thinking out loud here...
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u/bigodiel Apr 28 '20
chain of custody there certainly is, that's what TDL and Elizondo proud themselves off, not to mention how /u/blackvault found out that Luis used loopholes for the FOIA of the videos.
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u/JBrody Apr 28 '20
You would have to get a second FOIA request for the documents involved in the approval of the first FOIA request. However this would be a waste of time because exemptions 5 (agency communications) and 6 (personal privacy) would apply to a lot of the information.
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u/Joe_and_Suds Apr 28 '20
So basically an inception style foia request. :D
Now what about for someone who presumably has appropriate clearance to view those documents? * A response may be quick to say "but one may not have the appropriate access.." to which I'd reply that only depends on the content of the access not messages about said content.
For example the foia contractor handling the request isn't read in to every program. But they have the right clearance and they know which units or organizations (even if the org. Is very high up and diluted) to process the request through.
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Apr 27 '20
What could possibly be a higher funding priority than this?
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Apr 27 '20
I'm sorry your sarcasm went unnoticed.
But yeah, I wonder what this is supposed to distract us from. Surely not the reopening of the world in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
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u/Tim226 Apr 27 '20
Look at the state of the world dude. There's plenty. Not that I trust the Gov to allocate the funds properly, but this world far from perfect. Fuck aliens, we still have people starving to death.
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Apr 27 '20
Yeah...now all of a sudden we should be paying attention to the Gov. Fuck the Gov
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u/MKULTRA_Escapee Apr 27 '20
People ask "if this was true, how could the government keep it a secret?" The first problem with this is that hundreds of government/military officials and personnel have come forward on the record already. So it's really not even a secret in the first place. Second, if the government officially announces something about UFOs, the narrative will then be how it must be misleading because it comes from the government. People won't trust something unless the government announces it, but if they do, then it must be false or misleading.
It's a somewhat insignificant difference between an agency officially releasing a statement on UFOs and a collection of current/former government officials collaborating on a study of UFOs (See COMETA Report for example). In fact, I would say the latter are more trustworthy on a topic such as this, since we know that governments like to cover up and lie about UFOs. Former government personnel would be more honest about what they say because they don't have as much to lose if they tell the truth. Exhibit A: J. Allen Hynek, Major Jesse Marcel, Dr. Milton Torres, John Callahan, and many others.
However, the problem is the fact that we don't know if and when the government will officially decide that the world is ready to hear the truth. They can start disclosing true information and many people will still be stuck on the idea that it must be false because the government is officially stating it. How would you know either way, and how would you know whether or not there is a massive internal struggle within the government to disclose?
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u/doddlebop187 Apr 28 '20
Crazy to think this is where we are at...and some (maybe most?) people aren’t even batting an eye at this.
I wondered what Tom Delonge’s part was in this whole thing. Especially now. Looking back at what he was saying a few years ago about government officials needed him for some purpose, and the To the Stars Academy’s mission to give information to the public...I can see where this is going.
I couldn’t imagine a better way to soften the blow to the psyche of the general populous than to release legitimate footage through an alternative source, and the subsequently release the same footage through an official source.
Had I never seen these videos before and suddenly the Pentagon released them, I would go absolutely bonkers. But here I am, unamused at the fact that the Pentagon released footage which is undeniably unexplainable.