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u/omfg100 Aug 12 '23
So the hoax argument requires some amateur nobody with a lot of time on their hands and high level of vfx skill who also somehow got access to classified us military satellite and uav videos and decided to add orbs and teleportation through cgi and post it on some random YouTube account within 2 months of the incident.
Or that same person generated the videos from scratch yet got all the small details that wasn't publicly available at the time (but disclosed long time thereafter) totally correct.
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u/WORLDBENDER Aug 12 '23
Exactly. It’s a bit hard to wrap one’s head around in my opinion. Seems highly unlikely.
Then again, take your pick of the alternatives - the videos are authentic, the videos were created by the USAF as a potential cover-up for an accident or shoot-down, etc.
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u/RyzenMethionine Aug 12 '23
How do you explain the "portal" having a different frame rate than the rest of the video? That's end of story, dude. It's a hoax.
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u/Atiyo_ Aug 12 '23
That isn't the case and was debunked.
HIGHER FRAME RATE CLAIM
Several discussions on Reddit and Twitter are sharing a less-than-thorough investigation conducted by a user who suggests that the satellite video exhibits varying frame rates, implying possible manipulation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15oazqy/proof_the_airliner_portal_video_is_fake_check_the/
This claim originates from a single thread, which the original poster already deleted. The original poster of that thread was using a video forensics software, that software provoked this framerate difference. It was debunked in the same thread, most likely the reason why the original poster of that thread delete it.
This is the thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15m42i2/portal_shows_up_before_the_flash_and_fades_out/
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u/RyzenMethionine Aug 12 '23
The "debunking" makes no sense though.
Your methodology is bunked by the fact that we do not know the frame rate of the original recording. If the camera was recording quickly enough, it could differentiate a 4x ROS. Maybe that portal really moved that fucking fast.
This is nonsense word salad.
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u/Atiyo_ Aug 12 '23
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u/RyzenMethionine Aug 12 '23
To be honest with you, it seems like the dude deleted his post so as to not have to deal with an army of crazy fanatics. The description of the debunk makes no sense, but you guys latch onto it without any critical thinking because it perpetuates the fantasy
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u/Atiyo_ Aug 12 '23
The original footage doesn't have this frame rate difference, it was clearly shown that his editing software produced the difference in frame rate. I'm not sure why you are believing one person over many people who claim he did a mistake when using the software. He even admitted he was wrong.
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Aug 12 '23
Well to be fair, just labelling something "military" doesn't magically give it the ability or credibility to pull something extraordinary off of this nature? The military doesn't somehow have access to advanced VFX software in 2014.
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u/digidigitakt Aug 12 '23
I was creating more complex shots than this a decade before 2014 (VFX industry for 14 years before career change). And I was late to the game.
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u/ViewAdditional7400 Aug 12 '23
Like having an interdimensional portal is a good coverup for accidentally shooting it down .. please don't feed theories like that, people are gullible.
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u/WORLDBENDER Aug 16 '23
That’s my point. I’m not saying it’s a good cover-up. I’m saying that alternative explanations of the video’s origins seem almost as unlikely as the footage being real.
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Aug 12 '23
[deleted]
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u/omfg100 Aug 12 '23
Tons was money, resources, and manpower was used to search the wreckage for many many months while the families of the victims wait in agony, yet the us military had the classified raw footage the entire time! Then it was ONLY released to an anonymous vfx expert so he can make a ufo video out of it! God forbid it gets released to the public so that the families of the victims can get some closure as early as possible.
Or the video is real but the us military couldn't let it be known that 3 ufos sent hundreds of people on a plane to another dimension.
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Aug 12 '23
And all that using proprietary software available up to 2014. Which rules out a lot of other current day VFX options.
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Aug 12 '23
[deleted]
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u/diox8tony Aug 17 '23 edited Aug 17 '23
Minus 20 years of features that were added. The features are no joke, 20 years of features can cut a project time in 1000x...and then there is the hardware constraints, imagine simulating water in 1995 (terminator 2(1991) liquid metal)
Click to select a person, instead of manual rotoscoping is a huge deal.
The bigger issue is that 2014 wasn't that long ago, and most the big-deal features existed back then too. We had good hardware then too.
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u/Significant_Spite_64 Aug 12 '23
Wondering if this is truly a hoax ( pretty good one at that) then the creator would have known that those ufos dont have propulsion and thus not glowing red. It was only recent that favor/graves said there was no propulsion and those vids have been leaked in 2017?
If I was the creator I would make em glow just for the sake of visual impression
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u/diox8tony Aug 17 '23
O.o. Almost nothing grusch has said is new to someone following the UFO scene. Stephen Greer has said the same exact things for 25 years(plus whatever grift he's got going). The hoaxer would simply be someone that has dabbled in the UFO scene
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Aug 12 '23
[deleted]
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u/LastKnownUser Aug 12 '23
When I was in the Navy, I knew a dude that became a great artist.
People in military leave, and go to college. They also have lots of varied hobbies.
There is nothing that prevents someone with military knowledge leaving and starting a vfx career. Happens all the time. For example, I have got an art degree in Film when I got out.
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u/Mindful_Musings Aug 12 '23
Making a hoax video of a tragedy would be a pretty shitty hobby for a former military member to have...
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u/GOP_hates_the_US Aug 16 '23
Meanwhile, we've got former military members joining white supremacist militias and shit, so if a few of them would rather spend their time hoaxing UFO videos, I'll take it.
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u/Ikarus_Zer0 Aug 12 '23
“Happens all the time”
Lmao k
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u/LastKnownUser Aug 12 '23
it does. when you have free college, more likly to risk things on the arts
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u/TheSnatchbox Aug 12 '23
Show me the other fakes similar to this
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u/LastKnownUser Aug 12 '23
I do like ww2 ufo footage the guy made/has from the same account.
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u/TheSnatchbox Aug 12 '23
And you consider that on the same level?
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u/LastKnownUser Aug 12 '23
I enjoy it more. It's smoother. So to speak. It speaks my language, which is film. I Still think it's fake, but I love it. The UFO is inserted perfectly. Imo. Just enough to peak interest. But not enough to dismiss out of hand fully.
But, The ww2 footage is context for the mh370 ufo videos. I don't see people picking that apart. If that video is CGI, it lends more credentials that its just a CGI ufo account. I haven't seen that ww2 video anywhere else. And it's a video that ibthink would have been shared. It's a beautiful classic ufo piece of art imo.
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u/TheSnatchbox Aug 12 '23
I'm not saying it's not significant. I'll take any footage I can of UFOs from any point in time. But its like 5 seconds long and the craft doesn't really do anything spectacular. I thought I saw a little bit of analysis on it, funnily enough the distorted voice over the film sounds like Grusch. But who knows. I just know the MH370 video is a masterclass fake if it really isn't legit. If someone told me the other video was real, I'd be like cool! If someone told me the MH370 video was real, I'd be like oh shit!
You don't see the difference in skill and significance between the two?
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u/LastKnownUser Aug 12 '23
personally the the mh370 ufos look fake to me at first l. Second and all subsequent glances. Like immediate hit. So far I trust my instinct concerning video fakery unless proven otherwise. It just looks fake with just thermal filter over it. And the satellite video footage just looks like a very good composite to me.
Vfx is getting crazy. Just look at the game unrecord. I swore that was just bodycam footage, but then videos came out showing it was an actual in game graphics demo.
Now that was real time graphics. Graphics that takes rendering time. That's even better can get rid of all the seams in the canvas.
But alot of it for me is the animation of the Ufos (even in the ww2 one).... emframe bybframe might be perfect, but the whole animation seems off. .once they start spinning it just seems they are perfectly locked onto a single point of the plane and that point doesn't move once they get going. I know we are supposedly dealing with crazy ufo tech, but it's too perfect. Call it the uncanny valley or whatever, but it sticks out like a sore thumb for me.
It's going to take corroboration/verification for me. Need to see then receipts.
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Aug 12 '23
[deleted]
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u/HengShi Aug 12 '23
Right? You gotta wait 9 years once the families have grieved a little and then insist their loved ones didn't die in a tragic plane crash, they were actually teleported to another dimension by aliens and probably experimented on. They didn't even die in the same dimension and also their souls were probably eaten by these creatures.
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u/FiftyCalReaper Aug 17 '23
Ok, so in your head, military guy with knowledge of NROL-22 and Predator drone operating areas gets into VFX. He leaves the military, and then learns of the missing MH370 flight. Within a few weeks of the disappearance, he whips this little ol' diddy up and makes sure all of the visuals correspond with real-life satellite data and then obscurely releases the video on an internet forum. Reasons? People have varied hobbies and "shitty people exist."
You people will do ANYTHING to explain this way lol
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u/LastKnownUser Aug 17 '23
The probability of that happening is significantly higher than this being real footage. lol
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u/FiftyCalReaper Aug 17 '23
Based on what? Show me your calculations.
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u/LastKnownUser Aug 17 '23
Probability 1. Person is into VFX, can't afford college, Joins military, scores high on the Asvab, recruiter puts in him the right field to know drones/etc and the lingo and able to read footage. guy gets out of the military (or while in the military) goes to school to be someone good at VFX.
See's MH370 and new's releases about UFO. Has existing footage decides to add/create the UFO's into footage and tweak some things to match MH370/location/etc they may have been privy two.
The first paragraph no one doubts the probability of that. At all. easy to see it happening. People join the military to pay for college all the time. that first paragraph is written every day with varying different subjects of profession.
Second paragraph takes a bit of a leap, but still, it's feasible though a bit of a stretch just cause it would be a coincidence of circumstances and attitude of the person.
Probability 2. UFO's Teleported/destroyed a plane and the footage is real 100 percent.
If you had to place a bet for you entire life savings/livihood/freedom/life.......... which one do you choose if it was a guarantee one of these options were true and the other false?
I'm going with Option 1. And you'd be insane not to. Now you take the vast amount of other probabilities that could lead to this footage being fake vs the one probability we have actual UFO's caught on camera teleporting a plane... Then it becomes even less. Really just takes one determined or group of determined VFX artists to create this. Maybe a team over at ILM internally took a crack at making this real based on news stories of the UFO's in the case, and somone created an anon account to release what they created so it wouldn't be tied to the company or person because it was a bit in poor taste.
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u/FiftyCalReaper Aug 17 '23
This is a common argument. The subject matter is extreme therefore let's throw everything else out the window. People have done this for many things that ended up being true. If I told you the CIA conspired to fake terror attacks on US soil in order to invade another country and justify war, killing its own people and downing remote piloted planes, would you use this same argument? I bet you would. It's just too crazy to believe. Doesn't deny it as a documented fact, unfortunately for you.
You've crafted quite the story in order to deny what's right in front of you, meanwhile your claim has literally the least amount of evidence. It's all speculation and mental gymnastics. Nothing but an invented scenario. Meanwhile what we have is a video, of a 777, with matching coordinates to an actual event, tracked satellite positioning, with THREE different camera angles all of which are in astounding quality.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
To be clear I'm still not 100% on it, but each day makes me lean more towards the videos being authentic.
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u/YouPeaked Aug 14 '23
There are people that have commented in this post that seem to know everything about these nuanced details.
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u/ProductiveAccount117 Aug 12 '23
Keep going! This is incredible to be a part of
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u/mu5tardtiger Aug 12 '23
I was posting in the aquarium subreddit before seeing that airline video.
This is absolutely captivating.
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u/TheJungleBoy1 Aug 12 '23
Thanks for the post, another piece of the puzzle. You may want to change the comment about taking "10 days to create the video," as it was published on YouTube 2 months after the fact. Atleast thats the first known video we have.
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u/BroliasBoesersson Aug 12 '23
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u/TheJungleBoy1 Aug 12 '23
Referencing to "A" video related to UfOs and MH370, we have no idea if they are one and the same.
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u/TachyEngy Aug 12 '23
Yeah the Triclops Grey Eagle was uncovered pretty quick. As was the 777, here is my comment following it! https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15lvgt5/the_ultimate_analysis_airliner_videos_and_the/jvdj74l/
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u/fudge_friend Aug 12 '23
I’m once again asking, how can the camera in that underwing pod can see the leading edge of the wing?
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u/arpadav Aug 12 '23
good catch, just noticed this
someone with more military / contracting expertise should look into this, specifically payload configurations for these drones
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u/w00tleeroyjenkins Aug 12 '23
Would you mind explaining how/why the satellite video is what it is? If the satellite is providing intelligence to the drone that took the FLIR video, why do we have footage that was taken from high above and is labeled in the corner as NROL-22? That suggests it was the satellite taking the footage, no?
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u/ShinobuVamp Aug 12 '23
The satellite is NROL-22, isn't it?
That's why you get the top down
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u/w00tleeroyjenkins Aug 12 '23
Yes, it appears to be so. The thing is that USA-184 doesn't (officially) have a visible light camera, let alone one at the temporal/spatial resolution needed to capture the satellite video.
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u/mykidsthinkimcool Aug 12 '23
if the footage did come from usa184, it came from a pretty high level SAP. I know of two payloads on that bus and neither could have made that video. It makes me wonder who would've leaked it.
This doesn't mean there couldn't be a system like that, I'm just extremely skeptical.
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u/TeaL3af Aug 12 '23
One thing I think would be helpful in validating / debunking would be if we had more footage from this tech to compare against, especially the satellite as that seems like the harder of the two to fake imo. Has anyone seen any? I've done some searching but have only turned up the odd bit of drone cam stuff. Obviously it's classified, but occasionally things leak.
People talk about how accurate it all looks, or how fake it all looks, but if we don't know what it's supposed to look like it's hard to really say. We're going off our guts as to whether it looks like it should or not, which isn't very scientific.
Basically the premise of a lot of the authenticty arguments is "if it's fake how did they know how to fake it so good?" but I'm not sure we actually have enough data to even differentiate between an accurate hoax and an inaccurate one.
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u/36009955 Aug 12 '23
Occam’s razor suggests that this is actually real footage from a UAV and satellite
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Aug 12 '23
NROL-22 was not in the location shown by the coordinates in the video at the time when MH370 was airborne. In fact, for the whole of MH370’s flight the satellite was on the opposite side of the planet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15of2ni/nrol22_usa_184_satellite_did_pass_near_the/jvrmugq/
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u/WORLDBENDER Aug 12 '23
I’ll have to look into this a bit more, but that’s good to note. This post is intended to highlight what would have gone into the making of this video, assuming it is some sort of hoax, as much as it was to argue for the veracity of the videos as being fully authentic.
My point is really that, assuming it is a hoax, it would have been created by someone with specific knowledge of these systems OR access to actual raw footage that could be manipulated - I.e. someone serving in or connected to the US Air Force, maybe someone with access to a simulator that had these systems plugged in, or something along those lines.
You could speculate as, “to what end?” or for what purpose, but it does seem to be more than just an amateur prank. Again, if it is, it’s a really good one. (that took a decade to gain any traction at all)
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u/TheJungleBoy1 Aug 12 '23
Hey, OP is the same SIGNIT unit on NROL-32?
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u/WORLDBENDER Aug 12 '23
There’s not a ton of public information about NROL-32. But it’s definitely possible. It’s the largest NRO satellite in operation.
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u/TachyEngy Aug 12 '23
Not according to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15of2ni/nrol22_usa_184_satellite_did_pass_near_the/
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u/WORLDBENDER Aug 12 '23
For what it’s worth, this OP’s math was very wrong (like, by 1000x) when they are describing the optical capabilities of the satellite. Doesn’t mean they are incorrect about the position of the satellite, but puts that into question for me
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u/mykidsthinkimcool Aug 12 '23
How do you know what the optical capabilities of the satellite are?
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u/WORLDBENDER Aug 12 '23
He was essentially describing how large the sensor/mirror would have to be to theoretically image a given area at a given resolution from a given distance. There are a bunch of unknowns that make it impossible to even determine that IMO. I wasn’t really following his logic.
But his math was really wrong anyway.
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u/ConnectionPretend193 Aug 12 '23
Why the FUCK was an MQ-1C THAT FAR FROM BASE? And who the FUCK pulled an MQ-1C off it's duties, to tail a Commercial Airliner??
Why was a Classified satellite used to track an Airliner?!?!
It seems to me the US Intelligence knew beforehand of the UAPs. I bet the US doesn't want to get involved because it could have POSSIBLY PREVENTED THIS!
seriously, how did the MQ-1C and the NORL-22 know exactly where to look? They just happened to be in the area?
Super fucking suspicious. What the fuck crazy shit is our Intelligence and Military apparatus even getting themselves into? Release our files! We the people paid for them you unelected bozo's!
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u/WORLDBENDER Aug 12 '23
Assuming it’s genuine, my guess would be that the “Mr. B” story of British intel reporting 2 US AWACS operating in the South China Sea at that time are true. They would have known that a commercial airliner went missing/was being tracked going off course and deployed resources to intercept and investigate. Why they would have used that drone and satellite, idk.
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u/ID-10T_Error Aug 12 '23
SHAME! ... SHAME! ... SHAME! ... SHAME! ... (new trend on these silly distraction stories, post this and upvote it every time you see SHAME... if you agree!)
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u/Pdb39 Aug 14 '23
Why would a drone be connected with an NRO Launch Code? Is it again because of the stamp on the video? or is it because of this line, which is never proved in your link
According to public information, that satellite carries a SIGINT Payload, which is described as an airborne signals intelligence platform specifically for the MQ-1C Gray Eagle UAV.
USA-184 did carry a SIGINT payload. The TSP was designed for the MQ-1C. Now, how can you jump to the conclusion on those coincidences.
Could you provide proof of an MQ-1C having the capacity to connect with USA-184? Or proving that the USA-184 as a TSP.
Did you say the drone program started in 2009? USA-184 launched in 2006 - how could it have a TSP installed in it ?
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u/KOOKOOOOM Aug 12 '23
The amount of access to footage/operational knowledge needed for those videos is just crazy.
Ok does anyone else remember either Mr. Elizondo or Mr. Mellon making a very vague reference to there being a video about a commercial airliner? It would've been years ago, and likely during a long form interview/podcast.