Her character is such a waste of Laura Dern's talent, and that's such a huge downer. She's a great actress. Same with Rose's actress - just given disjointed material to work with for what could have been really well done characters.
Kelly Marie Tran. She's an adorable human being. Still makes me sad thinking about the "fandom menace" running her off of social media, and souring her experience in Star Wars.
She plays the lead in the new Raya, and The Last Dragon movie on Disney+. She's opposite of Awkwafina as Sisu the Dragon, and they're awesome together. I really enjoyed it. I didn't get the Mulan remake on Premier Access because... well, why remake Mulan? It's essentially a perfect Disney movie - but I sprang for this one since it looked really fun and my son wanted to watch it.
As fucked as it is to think this, I feel like this is Disney's way of trying to make amends after she got ran off social media by toxic fans.
To be fair, there are some who have embraced the "Fandom Menace" stance to constantly tell executives, producers, writers, directors, and actors they don't like the work. Its fair to criticize material. The problem is others under that umbrella make things personal and go way too far. Like I'd understand if Tran tried to defend the Rose character and fans argued about how the character is written, but the ugly stuff said about her and to her was awful.
Some people just need to learn to separate an actor from the character. Rey, Rose, Finn, and Holdo were all really good performances of really bad writing and/or direction. Even the original trilogy cast felt off, and they know their chatacters fairly well after three films and whatever else.
Yeah, I think constructive criticism is part of any healthy fanbase - you can thoroughly enjoy something and still find things that need improving. It’s totally normal to still enjoy something despite its flaws - but what they did to KMT was unreal. I think that’s gotta be a drastic low for the Star Wars fandom, though what they did the Jar-Jar’s voice actor, and Anakins child actor was still probably the worst.
Bland one dimensional character that breaks in universe logic in a panned movie vs leader of the rebellion who verbally bitch slapped Palpatine and help destroy 2 death stars
They wouldn't, though. The only reason it worked was because Holdo's ship was massive, and the shot itself was, like Finn said, one in a million. No one's gonna go wasting the biggest capital ships they have on a shot that most likely won't work.
You're missing the one in a million part. The reason it's so complex is because the ship needs to hit its target the moment before it enters hyperspace. Because it's not gonna collide in hyperspace. If you wanna do that every time, you have to know the exact distance your ship will travel until it enters hyperspace (which is a short distance), align your ship to another moving target and ensure the exact distance, and hope the enemy doesn't blow you to bits before you get that all done.
Because if the Holdo Maneuver is legit, why didn’t the rebellion just send a single X-Wing into hyperspace straight through the core of the Death Star? Or even a single Star Destroyer? Every single space fight is pointless because they could just sacrifice one ship to end the battle.
Small fighters don’t do enough damage. Dozens couldn’t bring down a cruiser. That’s showcased in Light of the Jedi. You need something bigger. Even Holdo’s ship splintered after impact. Nothing is going to reach the Death Star’s core because it won’t stay on trajectory after impacting the surface. And if you’ll read my comment here, you’ll have to sacrifice more fighters to just get a shot at it, because the enemy might blow you to bits before you can.
And hyperspace collisions have been a thing since ANH, just fyi. Even if that’s the old-canon understanding of hyperspace. So GL broke his own in-universe logic before anyone else.
Because there’s just a slight difference in size and mass between a 10m long fighter and a 3km long cruiser
Plus the supplemental materials literally said it only worked because of the experimental shield tech on the Raddus. And it’s not like things being explained outside of the movies is anything new, it goes all the way back to 1976 when the novelization was released before the first movie even came out
Because hyperspace jumps aren't supposed to be FTL, but hyperdimensional travel. An object cannot "ram" another object it they're not in the same space... not to mention target the shrapnel at the rest of the fleet. This is what we call "plot convenience". An author writes himsel into a corner he can't get out of and invents some bullshit, that allows him to just ignore the rules of the world.
I know how hyperspace works. The Holdo maneuver isn’t a hyperspace collision. You impact before you enter hyperspace.
But I have a question for ya. Almighty George Lucas introduced hyperspace collisions in the very first Star Wars movie. GL broke his own rules and logic before anyone else. Why you mad at Johnson for his supposed breakage?
Even though I think it all works, this is another good point, and one I need to remind myself about. These people get so nitpicky over space wizard blockbusters. And I get too into defending them lol
That’s not how actual militaries work though. Subordinates have no obligation to know the entire plan and the whole idea behind a chain of command is you have confidence in your superiors to know what they’re doing. Holdo was ultimately proven right in not telling Poe everything because he told Finn and Rose about the cloaked shuttles which ended up letting the First Order find out about the plan.
There’s a reason every platoon commander in operation overlord wasn’t given the complete plan, for example
No, it wasn’t lol. Poe was the only other ranking officer shown, so it could be reasonably assumed that he was second or third in command at that point. After politely asking for the basics of a plan and literally begging to know if there was anything planned, he was constantly rebuked for no reason. At that point, being one of the few remaining officers still around, he had. On other choice other than to stage a mutiny so there was at least something. If you notice, once he knows and understands the plan, he understands and accepts because it is actually reasonable. But instead he was forced out for no other reason than Holdo saying that she didn’t like him.
They had several other flag officers and captains. Poe was a junior officer trying to give demands to a vice admiral. Anyone who’s actually been in the military will tell you that you take your own life into your hands when you question a superior that way, especially the CO. Poe acting recklessly enough to stage a mutiny because he wasn’t given access to information he didn’t need to know (and later proved that he was rightfully excluded) showed how Holdo was 100% right to keep him confined to only knowing his role. This is like the most basic command hierarchy for the military.
First rule of the navy, be transparent and open a dialogue with your crew when making life or death decisions. She's running a military not a business.
Trust an astromech with the fate of everything you've fought for your entire life? She has such limited screen time but we know for a fact she's very honourable and makes sure things get done properly (hence Leia promoting her) she gladly gave her life without hesitation to clean up Poe's mess and to ensure the rebellion survives. Besides a lot of the dope shit Luke, Rey, and pre Vader Anakin did, her sacrifice is the most badass manoevre in the movies.
You literally couldn't have described her more horribly. She is cloistered, arrogant, and lets mutiny fester ship because she can't convince her own crew to trust her.
That must have been the stupidest scene in that movie... althoug the competition is very crowded. But still - a glorified suicide bomber who lost her entire crew and sparked a mutiny inside a day from taking command cannot compare to a real leader of an actual, succesful, galaxy - wide rebellion.
I mean, pretty much any other person would have been a better choice than Holdo. She just kind of exists for the purpose of the story but doesn't have any of the adventures all the other women have in the picture.
The book Leia, Princess of Alderaan really made me like Holdo’s character, but for the 99% of Star Wars fans who will never read it, Holdo is pretty unremarkable.
In the book shes all aloof and one of those kids that always seems to have their head in the clouds. In the movie she acts like a cold bitch because remember they had the big plan to just evacuate to Crait but you know, not tell anyone about it because why the fuck not, and act like there is no plan, just run away and die, moments after your defacto political leaders of 30 years are dead themselves or in a coma
Holdo is there to show that you don't have to EARN respect. You deserve respect even if you're a personality-less placeholder whose character arc is a flat line and whose decisions don't make any sense to anyone.
Im still salty that we got this shoehorned mess and Ackbar got killed off-screen in a second thought death to a explosion meant to make Leah that much more powerful.
Ah yes, the superwoman scene. I still don't understand how that made it to the final cut. It felt so out of place, even in a overall pretty weird movie.
He and Poe still argue because Akbar keeps holding Poe back. He’s doing this because he full well knows any counterattack will fail. Finally he tells Poe his plan after he attempts his coup, but is worried about spies and can’t let the greater crew know.
At the end, as he turns the ship around and just before engaging hyperdrive, Admiral Akbar says “It’s a trap” and destroys the enemy battleship.
Basically the same story, but from a leader with charisma that we respect and know to give a shit - even if his actions confuse us.
And then the salt battle on speeders doesn’t happen because that was dumb.
I see what they were trying to do though. Movie starts out with Poe staging a reckless attack that got people killed. Leia grounds him so he can learn good leadership and when not to get in an X-Wing and blow stuff up. Holdo is there to be a sort of role model. Where it falters is that she's not really interesting.
I mean, yeah, all joking aside she’s a perfectly fine character, but she’s a key piece in an otherwise “meh” movie that is so lacking in interesting conflict that there’s an entire subplot that consists of “hotshot wants to know the plan, but Admiral doesn’t think he needs to know.” Rose Tico was an objectively better character if OP needed one more person to fill the slot from the same film.
Not that any of this actually matters, but it’s nice to transition from snark to discussion from time to time.
Yeah, Holdo gets a lot of hate but really the problem is that the plot she is a part of is incredibly dull, and Holdo is the most memorable part of it for better or worse.
My issue with hodlgme is that she replaced characters we already loved that could have filled those plot points. Need a strategic mastermind? Why not admiral ackbar? He's to busy planning to explain his plan to every single pilot, so Poe gets upset, who's gonna talk him down and teach him to be a small party of the larger whole? Leia!
Why introduce a new character to fill roles that characters already exist for?
Yes. Hodlgme was nothing added that Leia couldn't have done herself. That's why I dislike her so much. Just like the way she needlessly replaced admiral ackbar in being a strategic mastermind.
she's a supporting character in support of Poe's arc. She doesn't need an arc of her own. By that measure, plenty of loved characters are bad since they have no arc (Tarkin, mon mothma, bail organa, the emperor)
No, the descriptors are not mutually inclusive. While they both have flat character arcs, they are not both placeholder characters. Tarkin is the secondary antagonist in episode 4. Bail Organa would probably qualify as a placeholder character though if you're looking for additional examples.
Woah, slow down there. I don't recall anyone establishing that Poe had an arc anywhere. He's the exact same person at the end of Rise of Skywalker as he was at the beginning of Force Awakens. The whole "Poe wants to know what's up" subplot didn't progress any character building in Poe or move the story along at all.
It served just to pad the run time. You can cut the entire sequence and the only thing different in the three movie story is "wait, what was Poe up to while Finn and Rose were at the casino?" Leave the ENTIRE subplot on the cutting room floor and the audience wouldn't miss a thing. There's no "wait, why is Poe being so deferential to authority?" later in the story, no "wait, who is this Admiral Holdo that is leading the offensive on Exogol?" It's literally just "all right, so we need another 20 minutes, so what can we do? Maybe Poe is being pouty about being left out of the chain of command despite the fact that he's just a snubfigher jockey?"
In hindsight if they had known Carrie was going to pass away then sure, but the idea was to make each OT character the focus of one movie. Han’s was tfa, Luke’s was tlj and Leia’s was supposed to be tros
Yeah, I think that would have definitely been a good concept if Carrie had actually been around for the 3rd film. I know that my idea couldn't have actually been implemented, even if the movie had released after her passing they would have needed to delay for a few weeks or months to make any adaption.
Id say she had a pretty good dynamic with Poe in TLJ. Sure, she is just an admiral and doesnt really do the adventuring of other characters, but thats fine. She is still a cool character
I mean, pretty much any other person would have been a better choice than Holdo. She just kind of exists for the purpose of the story but doesn't have any of the adventures all the other women have in the picture.
Holdo is a stronger woman than Padme "he's still a good man, despite assaulting me, controlling me, and cutting me off from my friends" Amidala.
Which to be fair, is also true of the lady in Fire Control on Hoth.
Yeah, people don't talk about it much but Padme is a weird character. Anakin admits to killing children when trying to save his mom at the Tusken village and she just keeps supporting him.
Not saying is is entirely her fault since she was in a pretty toxic relationship, but I don't think she is a strong or well-rounded character.
Unpopular opinion: I liked the sequels because a lot of the characters were quite mysterious and IMO holdo sounded like an imperial at first and I didn't like the character, but its the way they present it and you gain more trust in them.
Even if you don't like what she said on social media, which is totally understandable, it's important to recognize that the character she portrayed was a very strong and independent warrior of a woman, being set up for serious leadership potential before all this went down. Who knows where the character will go now, but the character herself doesn't necessarily have to be directly connected to the actress.
Most of the people who didn't like what she said on social media have no idea what she said on social media, they just know what the media said she said on social media.
Probably true to some degree. I did see what she posted, and while it wasn't soul damning material and doesn't in any way equate her to a nazi—not even close—it was certainly done in poor taste. The fact that she was canned was her own fault for not being more careful on social media per her employers request, having received multiple warnings.
But still a nazi which her character was supposedly against. A good Character needs a good actor to properly portray the character. Someone who is against the very ideals their party fights for makes an awful character and awful person.
Well obviously making edgy social media posts is just as bad as committing genocide and war crimes. Not defending the things she said on social media, but she's definitely nowhere near as bad as actual Nazis.
Oh no I'm talking neo-nazi. The kind people have been oblivious to. Nazis killed hundreds of thousands, if they got their way again anyone over 80 iq is at risk.
So does this mean Christoph Waltz was the wrong actor to portray Hans Landa because he was playing a Nazi but he (presumably) was against what his character stood for?
I mean, I'm no Gina Carano fan. The stuff she said was crazy. But this is not a good take.
No, Republicans can't make any contradictory thoughts, they are a contradictory thought. They can play a character well if they're smarter than the character they portray. Like Leonardo Dicaprio playing a slave owner in Django Unchained. He was smarter than his character.
If you really think that there is no such thing as a smart Republican, you are just as bad (or worse) than the idiot conservatives who post things like "Liberalism is a mental illness."
Political beliefs don't make a person smart or stupid. That's too easy of a way to think. It allows you to feel smart for no other reason than the things you're reading on Reddit. But life is more complicated than that.
You're going to have to start seeing your political opponents as actual human beings if you ever want to make any progress with them. Whether you want to work to change their viewpoints, or just want to beat them. Either way, it's a bad move to underestimate them.
Or maybe you just want to laugh at how dumb they are, and never actually change anything. If that's the case, then carry on I guess. But the world will only get worse for it.
It’s because sometimes conservatives call the decision of a private company to terminate a contract with an individual who does not represent their values a violation of free speech, even though it’s well-established that the First Amendment only protects you against government reprisals for speech, not the natural consequences of your actions.
I’m not sure that “Antisemitism is normal conservative speech and therefore protected” is the killer argument that you think it is, but go off, I guess.
Almost like it wasn’t the political nature of the free speech but the whole “bring the company into disrepute and fuck with our bottom line” aspect. Free market capitalism sure is a bitch, ain’t it?
Exactly. My post has 13 down votes because some incel's didn't like a question that had an anti facism answer. It's not "cancel culture" or "look what the left did" it's always been the left cleans up after the previous president and then gets voted out because of early voting lacking, Russia ect. But my whole thing is that we've seen this before in history, but the ignorant won't bother to see it because they're too busy simping for Gina, questioning the sanctity of the election, or licking their local and federal officials boots like Aryans in WW2.
And to those who ask why I keep bringing up WW2 references, it's because I'm painting a message on a billboard (figuratively) on how stupid Gina was and how stupid you (the down voters of tomorrow and today) are for simping for this nazi whilst ignoring the facts presented, now down vote away! The only 'true power' you have is in the internet use it while you can.
Rose is another character that really had a lot of potential, but they just didn't follow through with it well enough, in my opinion. And then in TROS, man she was just placed on a shelf and forgotten. I don't care what people fell about her character, that is just rough. Even Jar Jar Binks got better treatment.
Rose Tico should be there too. I know the character wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things but the actress deserves respect after having to put up with the most toxic star wars fans.
She shows up in fifteen clone wars episodes, seven rebels episodes, appeared in two movies (three if you count Revenge of the Sith) and has made appearances in comics, video games, and books, both in Legends and Disney continuity.
EDIT: If you want to be really pedantic, yes, Wicket still has more lines than she does, because Wicket appeared in Return of the Jedi, starred in two Movies (Caravan of Courage and Battle for Endor), and had his own TV show that ran for 35 episodes.
I'd still argue she's an important an valued character in Star Wars, though.
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u/Nobody0451 Mar 08 '21
Jyn Erso and Mon Mothma should probably be on this list somewhere. Maybe Hera, too.