r/OHGuns • u/GTAMuppet • 3d ago
Constitutional Carry Braced Pistol In Cars : What’s Allowed?
I have my CCL in Ohio but I realize we have Constitutional Carry for a couple of years now. I’m mostly wondering if something that’s chambered in a rifle caliber can be carried in a vehicle. I understand a braced gun is considered a pistol so technically it can be carried loaded in vehicle’s cabin. What about AK pistols that are 7.62x39? (ZPAP92 for example) I have asked about this at ranges and gun stores and get different answers. And I’m not simply looking for weigh-ins saying I can or can’t. That really wouldn’t make a good defense in court. These laws are so muddied I am wondering if there are official websites with the information. I have read the firearms section of the ORC and a lot of this stuff is not addressed and left for us to just “assume”. That scares the hell out of me because if I’m a law abiding citizen who happens to misinterpret a very vague gun law my entire life can be turned upside down for from a low level traffic violation.
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u/Plastic-Abalone-7513 3d ago
It's whatever the FFL put on the 4473 when they transferred it to you. If they checked rifle it's a rifle if they checked pistol it's a pistol.
Will they confiscate it and maybe charge you, that's officer discretion and how well they know the law. You go to court and fight it there.
I am sure your ak pistol or ar pistol isn't sitting in plain view in the car so don't say anything unless they ask and just tell them yes you do have pistol(s) in the car and go from what he wants you to do, don't volunteer more info than needed.
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u/JustForkIt1111one 3d ago
What if I 3d printed the firearm in question...?
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u/Plastic-Abalone-7513 3d ago
Then as long as it's in a pistol format not an sbr or rifle format then you are fine. Also you must be the maker of the pistol unless it has a serial number and then it can be transferred and you must be legally allowed to possess a pistol.
The ATF also defines making a pistol it must be first assembled as a pistol with a brace and a barrel shorter than 16". If the receiver is first assembled as a rifle it is always a rifle unless you form 1 it as a sbr. If the receiver is first assembled as a pistol you can make it a rifle and go back to being a pistol.
Also if you SBR it you cannot keep it loaded in your vehicle in sbr format you would have to make it a pistol again to carry it loaded in the vehicle with you.
Don't you love all the fun laws ..
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u/vio212 2d ago
So if my dealer checks pistol but sells me a rifle I can just do anything I want to the weapon and no matter what, it will always be a pistol?
What if they sell me an AR pistol but I put a 16.5" barrel on it and then put a VFG and a stock on it? Did I just create an SBR because the 4473 was checked pistol?
Firearms are not immutable. They can be transformed otherwise there would never be any gun law violations because every 4473 would just have the right box checked and that would be end of story.
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u/Plastic-Abalone-7513 2d ago
It's all based on what it was originally sold or manufactured as. So if the FFL received it as a rifle and sold it as a pistol that would need to be a form 1 along with the 4473 since they manufactured the pistol from a rifle and this made it a sbr even if it is in rifle configuration.
Big thing is a rifle has to stay a rifle unless it's made into an sbr with a form 1
A pistol can become a rifle and go back to a pistol or become a sbr and even from an sbr it can go back to a pistol. All depending if it has a brace as a pistol or a stock and barrel longer than 16" and overall length over 26" to make it a rifle.
Also a vfg on a pistol makes it a AOW and needs a form 1 also. So no vfg with a brace on a pistol.
Above is the ATF ruling on it
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u/vio212 2d ago
ATF can say whatever they want (a shoelace is a machine gun let’s not forget) they are total clowns. It’s a matter of have they successfully charged anyone under these rules? And have these rules been challenged in a court in anyway at all?
They make bogus rules all the time.
They have a rule right now that pistol braces are illegal. Yet here we are….
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u/Plastic-Abalone-7513 2d ago
Well they can't make any new rules since Chevron has been overturned but don't know if all the old rules still apply until someone is charged for it, we can't file a lawsuit until there is a defendant to have status. Then there are also state laws that ban sbr and other NFA items on the state level. And how they define an sbr might be different from the federal way. And you could get arrested for transportation through that state on the way from a legal state to another legal state. Like going from Indiana to Iowa or Missouri and you pass through Illinois.
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u/vio212 2d ago
Generally states abide by safe harbor for transportation purposes but these days who knows.
I’m just saying that the ATF has made rules for a million things that make no sense (like this box checking) and don’t withstand even common sense scrutiny let alone what a judge would say if it was in front of them.
No unbiased judge would agree with a gun being permanently immutable from a box being checked on a form. It’s an ATF wishlist item. It stands only to scare folks who follow the law which is all the ATF does. Turn law abiding citizens into criminals.
They are the embodiment of government excess and tyranny in every way.
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u/2donks2moos 3d ago
I will wait to see what others say, but a pistol is a pistol. I was told by a deputy that a .223 AR pistol was still a pistol under the law.
.22lr started as a rifle round. It certainly doesn't make a .22lr pistol, anything but a pistol.
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u/YoloSwaggins991 3d ago
A 50 BMG that was sold without a stock is a pistol, too. Put a stock on it. Now it’s a rifle. If the barrel length is <16”, it’s now a short barreled rifle. Caliber doesn’t factor into this at all, in this country. Often in other countries, it does.
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u/XMXP_5 3d ago
You don't want weigh ins on if you can or can't but that's all we can give you.
If you think something might not look good in court, it probably won't.
All that kind of stuff is situational. If you're from Perry County and a Perry County deputy sees an AR pistol in your car, they probably won't say much. If you're from Perry County and a Franklin County deputy sees an AR pistol in your car, things might get dramatic.
If you are involved in a SD shooting the fact that you were riding around with a not quite but almost SBR could be used against you to detrimental effect in the courtroom.
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u/GTAMuppet 3d ago
Agreed
And to be clear, I think just casually riding around with a loaded AK47 is sort of insane even if it’s legal.
The whole thing that actually made me even want to do this was when there were those random road closures done by morons so they could do car meets on public streets.
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u/hallstevenson 3d ago
I don't think the caliber factors in. Isn't it the barrel length that defines whether it's a handgun vs rifle ?
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u/Additional_Health194 3d ago
the law is the law it either is or isn’t a SBR but if it’s categorized as a pistol then you can carry it loaded in the car.
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u/vio212 2d ago
This is one of those things that is going to come down to what circumstances led up to the officer encountering you, what neighborhood you are in, who you are, how well the last conversation that the officer and his spouse/boss/family member, etc. had and on and on.
A roll of the dice basically. You will win... eventually... if you are actually not doing anything wrong. No weed, no booze, no nothing (seems obvious but going overkill here).
Cops absolutely HATE the idea of people having weapons capable of firing rifle calibers in their cars at easy access IME. It scares the shit out of them. Even if it's legal they may still try to bind you up just because they don't like it.
My recommendation would be to have a suitable braced pistol or even rifle (not charged) in a case under your back seat or somewhere that isn't necessarily reachable by you as a driver but it has a secure storage location that you can access if you need to. A pistol will get you to the spot in your car but having it out of your reach and stowed in a case, low profile, away from your reach, none of the cops business, and hidden will keep you from getting jammed up from some cop on a power trip.
The status of the chamber of the weapon is what it all may come down to so if you are in doubt, maybe just don't charge the weapon.
Unless you are doing stupid things. Then all bets are off.
My .02$ but that's about what it's worth.
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u/GTAMuppet 2d ago
Very well said.
I tend to be pretty up front and respectful anytime I deal with law enforcement anyway. They don’t really give me any trouble because I don’t do anything wrong lol. That’s why I’m trying to dot my I’s and cross my T’s on this. Not because my whole new aesthetic is “take my AK everywhere I go guy” but if there’s a situation that calls for it I want to be on the right side of the law.
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u/N2Shooter 3d ago
You gonna trust your life for a LEO understanding your 2A rights when they have the I was in fear of my life get out of jail free for murder card to play?
Especially with everyone on high alert after this weekend's terrorist activity?
You're gonna get murdered buddy. See you on the news...
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u/GTAMuppet 3d ago
Just because I’m inquiring about it doesn’t mean I’m definitely doing it.
And I don’t trust LEO or any person of any occupation.
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u/N2Shooter 3d ago
I just want you to be safe buddy! I had guns drawn on me because they saw the stock of my crossbow in the back seat!
You would think they would have to have some kind of training when open carry is legal throughout the whole damn state!
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u/GTAMuppet 3d ago
Understood and appreciated
I’m just super frustrated that in this age of information they don’t provide clearer information on the gun laws. There’s also no effective way (that I’ve found) to get information from anyone with authority that you could somehow reference if you did find yourself in front of a judge over this.
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u/8ironslappa 3d ago
Yeah it’s really frustrating. Glad I saw your thread because I’ve been trying to read through the muddy law-speak for some clarification for the last month. I think they bank on us misunderstanding! Going to take a ccw class soon so hopefully they can clarify some questions
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u/N2Shooter 3d ago
It's fucking crazy ain't it!
As far as I've learned the only thing that can determine what a pistol vs a rifle is the good one BATF, since we don't have any weapons bans as we're fortunate enough to live in a free state.
The problem is, some local donut juggler will swear you're a terrorist and probably murder you before you show them a BATF rule, just like they did to the guy walking around Walmart a few years back with a BB gun he picked up off the Walmart shelves.
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u/scooshert 3d ago
https://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=95686
It's legal, but do you really wanna have to explain it to any officer that might be slightly ignorant on the topic while pulled over? You definitely are in your legal right to do so, but you gotta ask yourself is it worth the potential hassle?