r/Eugene • u/AlternativeNo4919 • Oct 11 '24
My own employer sent me a letter asking me to vote No on measure 118, and that's exactly why I'm voting YES. jiggly
I'll spare you the details for my own privacy, but my own employer sent me a letter asking me to vote No on measure 118.
This company is privately and family owned, to the tune of what's estimated to be nearly AT LEAST $1 billion in private equity, if not possibly double or triple that amount. We have no idea because they don't publish financials, but simply put, they're absolutely massive.
In fact, any company at all over $25 million is massive. Sweet Life ain't going to be affected by this, people. Anyone who owns a $25 million company (or larger) is the literal 0.1%. They can afford to part ways with 3% of their company's revenue (yes, revenue) that we the workers actually created for them. They will be fine, they will not suffer losing "only" 3% of their hoard of wealth. The full value of that 3% will not be passed on, it never is, and the "regressive tax" scaremongering is obviously fallacious. Raising the minimum wage 10% never raises inflation 10%, it's simply not possible. That's the beauty of capitalistic markets - consumers have choice.
I'm voting yes on 118. Yes, give me back at least SOME of the money that I created for your huge, wealthy company. I will be happy with a mere lick of the brass ring right now.
Business owner, listen to me: I'm struggling by not having that 3%. You'll fucking live without your 3% just fine.
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u/Guygenius138 Oct 11 '24
My Union rep encouraged me to vote against and the Union has my back more than anyone else. I'm gonna take his advice.
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u/mryan82 Oct 11 '24
Taking people's advice you trust is awesome, Just remember to verify once in a while so you don't get burned.
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u/dogfacedwereman Oct 11 '24
Dumb take. Taxing revenue makes zero sense.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
If you tax profits or net revenue, guess what happens - suddenly every big business makes nearly zero profits or net revenue because of accounting tricks.
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u/uhgletmepost Oct 11 '24
So, you don't know what you are talking about and decided to make a reactionary post?
how very... well. Republican.
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u/TheOldPhantomTiger Oct 12 '24
Duuuuude, I actually have a socialist economic agenda, but you seem to think this all works like the movies about evil corpos. What exact accounting tricks? And you’re real glib about difference between profits and revenue.
Like, if you want to kick over the corpo sandcastle, it would be best if you actually understood the material mechanisms here.
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u/SayNoToFresca Oct 11 '24
I work in an industry where I sometimes cut cost + 4% deals to customers. Taxes need to be based on net, not gross.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
If you tax profits or net revenue, guess what happens - suddenly every big business makes nearly zero profits or net revenue because of accounting tricks.
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u/madGPMinyoface Oct 11 '24
People with no understanding of accounting love to talk about accounting tricks
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u/SayNoToFresca Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
There will absolutely be BS involved. Neither solution is perfect but taxing gross revenue is DOA.
Edited. Mixed up my gross/net
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Oct 11 '24
[deleted]
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u/SoDoSoPaYuppie Oct 11 '24
$1600 that you have to pay federal taxes on.
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u/Spore-Gasm Oct 11 '24
And may cause you to lose federal services like SSI
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Oct 11 '24
[deleted]
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
That's why you are allowed to take it as a tax refund as well.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
I really don't think it's invisible, but I simply understand that prices are never truly passed on at a perfect parity to tax increases.
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u/benconomics Oct 11 '24
This policy would give Nike or Intel or other financial firms reasons to move to other states, leaving grocery stores and retailers as the big payers of this gross receipts tax which will pass it through to consumers. And the only way to avoid paying the gross receipts tax is vertical integrating your supply chain so I hope you like buying Kirkland and the Walmart brands of everything at the stores.
Gross receipts taxes are terribly distortionary and should not be used to raise revenue in Oregon.
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u/PlantExact Oct 11 '24
Good, then maybe actual humans could afford to live in Beaverton. It'll be funny to see who buys the Nike headquarters AKA the ugliest building ever built.
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u/benconomics Oct 11 '24
Your ideal political candidate.
"Vote for me. Let's make Oregon a hell hole so no one wants to live here and prices drop."
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u/PlantExact Oct 11 '24
Yes, this is exactly what I want. Fuck your equity lol.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
A place where people can afford to live. Truly the largest of hell holes.
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u/benconomics Oct 11 '24
Cost of living is much lower in Oklahoma...
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
That's also because it's Oklahoma
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u/benconomics Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
How's that different than we should make Oregon a worse place to live to make it cheaper? Are we assuming some how that worse place to live won't apply to you?
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 12 '24
There's "affordable" and then there's "cost of living is lower".
The first one only has to do with economics. The second one has to do with damn near everything else.
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u/rickeooh Oct 11 '24
There is no free lunch and there is no free money. We’re all going to end up paying for this no matter the rhetoric. This is a poorly thought out measure. Vote no.
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u/jwaters1978 Oct 11 '24
It’s a horrible measure though. Make sure you do you research beyond the surface level. It sounded reasonable in theory, but it’s not.
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u/SteveBartmanIncident Oct 11 '24
I'm voting no because it's a poorly designed, self-defeating version of UBI that would prevent us from ever getting a good version. I get those fliers in the mail from all those groups I despise, urging me to vote no on 118. Then I check myself, because if groups like that are against it, maybe I shouldn't be. But then I read 118 again, and it's still bad policy.
Sometimes you just end up on the same side as people who you disagree with.
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u/shlammyjohnson Oct 11 '24
You have zero grasp on anything economics related.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
Who could guess that a guy who is anti-ceasefire protest, crypto-loving, pro cop "moderate" would make this kind of claim. Shocking!
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u/Proximus_Cornelius Oct 11 '24
You had to dig into someone's profile to make personal attacks instead of providing an actual argument for your claims. You lost.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
You know you're a well known poster in this sub, right? There was nothing to refute anyways. Everyone knows you are famously a defender of the ultra wealthy for some unknown reason.
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u/shlammyjohnson Oct 11 '24
Is that why your idiotic takes are hidden behind a throwaway account?
I'm so happy you think so highly of my opinion to look into me 🤙
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u/Proximus_Cornelius Oct 12 '24
I'm well known? I'm a r/Eugene celebrity! Woohoo! You could have tried to refute the claim that you have zero grasp on anything economics related as you have proven in your post.
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u/Ketaskooter Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
"Raising the minimum wage 10% never raises inflation 10%"
This is because wages are only a portion of the total revenues. The worst businesses have wages at like 60-70% of revenues while most are somewhere around 20-30%. One would expect a 10% wage inflation to equal roughly a 3% rise in revenues.
If a company has a revenue of 1b a 3% tax on gross receipts though would mean that they'd be encouraged to inflate revenue by 3%.
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u/Duke0fMilan Oct 11 '24
The only people who are going to be affected by this are consumers. It is a sales tax after all.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
The idea of "it gets passed on" is specious at best. Most studies I've seen show it doesn't ever really get fully passed on 1-to-1. Sometimes businesses just eat part of the cost.
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u/benconomics Oct 11 '24
BS. Businesses almost always pass on most of the tax increases, but they more rarely pass through tax cuts. That's what creates the variation in pass throughs.
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u/Spore-Gasm Oct 12 '24
It’s going to cause a $2B deficit in the state budget if passed
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 12 '24
...which we won't need because we'll actually be using that money on things that this program would have paid for directly.
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u/Spore-Gasm Oct 12 '24
$2B just doesn’t magically get replaced. The remaining money doesn’t suddenly have the ability to be spent more than once. Listen to the experts saying this is a terrible measure. Both parties are saying to vote no. Unions are saying to vote no. Anyone with a basic understanding of economics says to vote no.
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u/Tioben Oct 12 '24
As someone on the fence due to ignorance, could you ELI5 me how this would be the case? Wouldn't a tax increase on large companies typically increase the budget? How would this one do the opposite? I get the worry that it's a regressive tax a lot more than the idea that it would cause a budget deficit.
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u/stinkyfootjr Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 12 '24
Willamette Valley Cancer Institute where I receive treatment sent me a letter asking me to vote no on 118. Two points they mentioned where that because Medicare and insurance reimbursements are not changing they could be forced to reduce services, lay-off staff and terminate some insurance contracts. They also said that Gov. Kotek has also come out against the measure. Take this as you may, I’m just passing this on.
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u/eug_fan Oct 12 '24
If a cancer center is advising a “no” vote for those reasons, it definitely bolsters my inclination to vote “no.” Thanks for sharing.
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u/Eugenethrowaway003 Oct 11 '24
Last name starts with a ‘G’ by any chance?
If so, easily the worst job I ever had in my life. Terrible people in that family.
That being said, they may not be wrong here. I think the measure is not quite right and needs more thought.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
Not ending in a G, so no, different place. But I do have access to the financials of my company.
This family is profiting tens of millions of dollars per year, aside from the theoretical value of their billion dollar company being an asset. They literally own a house Frank Sinatra owned in Palm Springs, and a private jet. They go there maybe once a year for kicks. That's how wealthy this family is. And they simply cannot bear a 3% revenue sales increase apparently. God forbid they're forced to sell their performative celebrity vacation home.
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u/pirawalla22 Oct 11 '24
This measure is obviously not going to pass, but the boot licking just gets stronger and stronger the more posts we get on this topic.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
I guess this sub got really really right wing in the past year or two. Bring back the mods who simply banned everyone who even briefly mentioned supporting MAGA-adjacent shit
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u/tartman33 Oct 11 '24
Not only will it cost 3% of their revenue, but their supplier's revenue, and their supplier's revenue. This will be expensive, it will drive prices up, and it will result in fewer businesses located in oregon, making our already mediocre job market worse. It will not cost only "3%" of their horde of wealth. That would be 3% of profits, not revenue. This could eat up 20-30% of a company with a slim profit margin's cash.
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u/Spore-Gasm Oct 12 '24
People don’t understand that 3% will compound as a good moves through the supply chain
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u/BrewUO_Wife Oct 13 '24
I was just talking to my husband about whether he’s heard of anyone supporting this bill. The answer was ‘no.’
Then I saw this post and the supporter is to ‘fuck the man’ because their employer has a particular stance.
Whelp, on to do more of my own research, but it’s a good reminder on how many people just vote in spite instead of formulating their own educated decision.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 13 '24
When my employer is literally billionaires who own private jets and vacation homes in resort towns, and they're asking the people who made them all that money to give them a break? Yeah, no. I'm already being exploited. They can afford to give up some of that money so I can get more. They can't pass the tax down to me completely.
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u/BrewUO_Wife Oct 13 '24
Thanks for solidifying my point.
Maybe you should ask for a raise.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 13 '24
Maybe instead of asking billionaires for a raise, they should be forced give me a raise AND give me back a few tiny coins of the wealth that I created for them instead of hoarding all their gold like Smaug and living in complete opulence
They'll fucking live
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Oct 11 '24
[deleted]
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u/Excellent_Regret_124 Oct 11 '24
That’s because they’ll have to charge more for medications or be out of business. True for many businesses, consumers will just see prices increase. It’s a terrible measure.
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 12 '24
Gotta say it's interesting how close this post is to 50% upvotes. I can only assume that's probably likely to be reflected on election day.
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u/ChickensHunter Oct 12 '24
Vote YES on measure 118. Companies received mass tax cut in the last 2 decades while leaving the middle class the burden of more taxes so corporations can benefit from our tax dollars paying to fix bridges, roads, infrastructure, fire, police and a host of services. Rich people have been using corporate entities to hide massive wealth . It is time for them to pay theirs fair share. Not 3% but it should be 30% like everyone else. VOTE YES ON MEASURE 118.
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u/brickwallas Oct 11 '24
Yes my husband’s company sent out flyers for the same thing and also the effing candidates they support (trump/pence) Me and my husband are voting blue straight down the ticket and yes on 118! Thanks for speaking out! 💙💙🙌
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u/Spore-Gasm Oct 12 '24
Why are all the OR Dems against it then? Voting blue would also be a no on M118.
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u/DragonfruitTiny6021 Oct 13 '24
Spit balling - the Oregon Democratic party is controlled by business affected by this tax.
We all know the ODP has had a retail sales tax on their agenda for decades.
Edit: I do think it's a total cluster @#&$
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u/AlternativeNo4919 Oct 11 '24
I mean, that right there should probably be a big enough tell of who wants this measure to fail, and whether or not this is something that you should vote for or against - even if you don't know the ins and outs of the legislation.
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u/Spore-Gasm Oct 11 '24
Equity doesn’t equal revenue. $25m is not as large as you think. This is just a sales tax and the $1600 you’ll get will be nullified by higher costs for goods and services. It’ll create a $1b deficit in the state budget too. It’s a horrible measure.