r/DebateCommunism • u/OkManufacturer8561 • 6d ago

The "state" may be required. Unmoderated

Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless, society, a utopia one may add. Unfortunately, I believe we may need the "state". Now, it ultimately depends on how one defines the "state", however if one of the key factors of the state is a military, police, armed forces, ect. I am here to state that we may require said forces to defend ourselves and expand our civilization against other species. This is unironic.

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u/King-Sassafrass I’m the Red, and You’re the Dead 6d ago

This is the Leninism of ML

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u/OkManufacturer8561 6d ago

Elaborate comrade, am I... a Leninist and not a ML? Also, I like your flair-thingy, I shall use that phrase from now on.

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u/King-Sassafrass I’m the Red, and You’re the Dead 6d ago

In the aftermath of the Russian Revolution, it was deemed necessary that a state had to be established to defend the workers against outside influences and war created by the imperialists and the capitalists.

Lenin describes a State in State & Revolution on Page 8 as a form of moderation that exists to oversee class antagonisms to keep the current system as it is. That the state exists solely for this reason, to keep the order of whatever system may be current with uses of the military, police and prisons.

It is necessary for this to be established since in the current day and modern situation there are other systems, politics and conflicts that are occurring throughout the world that need to be defended from, but that the role of a State itself is to maintain order, whatever order this may be (socialist, capitalist, etc). Then in the second half of the book, he talks about the Revolution of how it’s important that the power of the State is to be harnessed by socialists so that it is not distant or above the workers and society and isn’t alienated by the people it’s supposed to overwatch and protect

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u/Muuro 6d ago

Arguably it's even from Marx in Civil War in France, which is one of the things Lenin quotes in State & Revolution.

The OP is silly though as communism (Marxism) actually 1) is about stateless, classless society and 2) doesn't call that utopian. Marx and Engels wrote AGAINST utopian thinking. That's why they called their theory scientific socialism.

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u/OkManufacturer8561 5d ago

I vision a stateless, classless, moneyless society, as a perfect society, thus a utopia.