r/ChatGPT Jan 31 '24

holy shit Other

28.9k Upvotes

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507

u/itemluminouswadison Jan 31 '24

which implies that more effective tactics could exist that we haven't discovered yet, nice!

260

u/psaux_grep Jan 31 '24

What is more effective than the true and tried bread and circus?

103

u/The_Inward Feb 01 '24

I agree. Bread and circuses. It's how to control a populace.

Noblesse Oblige justifies it.

62

u/Earthwarm_Revolt Feb 01 '24

So when do they get back to addressing basic needs?? Feel like they skipped that part.

107

u/RunYoAZ Feb 01 '24

In the grand scale, we have the most basic needs. There is a Dollar Store on every corner selling ramen that ensures we don't starve.

If we were a genuinely hungry populace, we would revolt. We have just enough comfort to worry about losing that comfort. The basic comfort also helps create external threats.

64

u/trappedindealership Feb 01 '24

I understand and accept your point. One thing I'd like to point out, though, is that malnutrition comes in many forms. Eating dollar store ramen certainly leads to health problems both for what it has, lots of salt, and what it lacks, protein + micronutrients.

It turns out that alcoholism transcends social class. But do you know what is still stratified? The consequences. I can't comment on legal ones, but I did an internship studying fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. Poor alcoholic women tend to have children with worse symptoms than rich ones. Why? Very complicated, one reason is diet.

Rich women tend to have more balanced diets or at least supplements. One really important one is folic acid. Chronic alcoholism has been shown to reduce the intestinal absorption of dietary folic acid. The same thing is roughly true for Vitamin D. I believe the theory was that a key enzyme (been too long I forget name) for a key component of vitamin D synthesis (same story) also happens to be involved in alcohol metabolism. More alcohol, less available vitamin d, more birth defects.

Some people treat social justice like its a bunch of soft vagina-hatted gender studies freshman (which is fine by me), but these inequalities are measureable. I can extract and count the differences in available Vitamin D levels. I can sequence the RNA of these different groups and see different gene expression patterns, particularly those involved in stress responses.

It's real. I don't know who needs to hear that, but I really did. I still compare myself to people who grew up in middle class homes and never had to starve. Who were never beaten, or worse. I can't see what I've overcome because I'm too close to it, but it can be measured by a machine, it can be found in the methylation patterns I pass on to my children. For that reason I'm proud of anyone that grew up on dollar store ramen and church food banks and still has the strength to live life.

Anyway thanks for coming to my traumadump Ted Talk

17

u/Sweet-Assist8864 Feb 01 '24

hunger causes revolt, not malnutrition and a deteriorated individual who has fallen victim to the classism inherent within this system.

it’s a facade of meeting basic needs, so that those trapped in the classist system with limited education access don’t realize they are dying because of the food they are eating.

13

u/Hemagoblin Feb 01 '24

Thanks for this - currently going through a lot in life and feeling a little sorry for myself as a result, but you have reminded me that I’ve survived things most people can’t even imagine.

That, by comparison, makes my current situation feel a lot less foreboding.

Also, I’m proud of you too my friend.

2

u/thenerdyn00b Feb 01 '24

Interesting, so malnutrition is also well correlated with power. More malnutrition, more people will have less valuable life and strength to live properly.

This reminds of the reason they quote why humans have progressed technologically. It was because they didn't have to care for the hunger anymore like animals do and could use their strength on stuff like science. Now those who just can't contribute to society much should chase food, and those who can just make them tangled with money and social status biases.

1

u/PsychicFoxWithSpoons Feb 01 '24

It's true. I've spoken with my autistic/asperger's roommate on this very subject. He thinks sociology is a bunch of bullshit navel-gazing on the part of the wussy left, but then gets confused why America doesn't have good public transportation. (He thinks the democrats are too distracted by social issues, racism, etc. and are fixated on raising taxes and taking guns away from law-abiding citizens.)

People like ben shapiro say that facts don't care about your feelings, but that's because he doesn't want to admit that opinions have just as much power to shape reality as facts do.

1

u/ubiquitous_nonsense Feb 02 '24

This is why "generational trauma" is so hard to overcome. Because, for a lot of us, it's a product, not just of our upbringing, but of our environment.

10

u/timeye13 Feb 01 '24

Where is fancy bred; in the heart or in the head?

9

u/interyx Feb 01 '24

Oh they have fancy bread at bakeries and Panera

1

u/OGDraugo Feb 02 '24

Source, or it didn't happen! Heh, to be serious, who said that? It's a very interesting phrase if digested. I kinda like it.

2

u/timeye13 Feb 02 '24

Roald Dahl- Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

3

u/BiggestShep Feb 01 '24

You know what makes for a hungry populace? Between 10-300 million people milling around with no form of governance and therefore no ability to diversify and track the labor force. This question is skewed from the start because OP didn't check his assumptions.

1

u/easemael Feb 01 '24

The lack of governance was simply rhetorical.

1

u/BiggestShep Feb 01 '24

Then why include it at all? It's an AI, not a human. Every scrap of input is taken at face value. Unlike you or I, it cannot tell the difference between rhetorical, sarcastic, bad faith, or good faith statements. It can only accept input.

1

u/easemael Feb 01 '24

AI doesn’t understand anything, true, it only simulates existing relationships between patterns of existing information exchanges between us, so it cannot take any text at face value because even doing that is done in relation to unquestioned assumptions that only humans that care about the information can make. It only matters that it spits out patterns that are intelligible and useful to us, and, if we the humans, take the text at face value, it seems it understood the question as being “What are the principles and strategies necessary to gain and maintain power and influence covertly?” which in our eyes suggests an ability to understand the phrase “rise to the top” as a metaphor for becoming powerful and an ability to not get bogged down on the literal meaning of each word and statement. Your original comment only suggests you were the one who doesn’t understand rhetoric

1

u/BiggestShep Feb 01 '24

And Plato would despair at your use of it. You can dress your statement up in as many thought terminating cliches & catchphrases as you please, but you've still failed to address my initial point. The base assumption of the poster was wrong. This led the machine to spit out an incorrect answer, because as every engineer knows, garbage in is garbage out. Its answer only works assuming a modern society WITH a governing system already in place, which we know because historically our founding societies & civilizations did not begin as ChatGPT stated. That OP accepted them as a tolerable answer only proves that he didn't think of the consequences of the thought experiment he set up and failed to doublecheck. The system gave a bad answer because it was fed bad premises. You can harp on semantics all you want, but that much is unavoidable fact.

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6

u/stilljustacatinacage Feb 01 '24

There's a reason that, despite all their screeching, conservative pundits are never quite able to eliminate food programs and such.

Nearly every revolution in history is tied to hunger. They've learned.

1

u/Altruistic-Dark2455 Feb 01 '24

'Basic Needs' include food, clothing, shelter. Except for the most destitute among us (and often even then) these needs are met. Are they met in a way that provides a high standards of living...now that's a different story.

2

u/The_Inward Feb 01 '24

Welfare. It's the bread. News and the next thing to be outraged about. Circuses.

They didn't skip anything.

2

u/CollinUrshit Feb 01 '24

Don’t forget the sports, NFL most of all.

1

u/The_Inward Feb 01 '24

I think that's consumer driven. Not so much government driven. But, you're not wrong. It serves the purpose, too.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '24

Politicians have already started to roll back school lunch, breakfasts, and summer food programs. They are starting to take the bread

1

u/Few-Ad-4290 Feb 01 '24

They just forgot about it and it’s leading to people waking up to the problem hence woke

17

u/Shriuken23 Feb 01 '24

Why is this not the first time I have heard bread and circuses today and also the first time I've ever heard it was also today.

22

u/psaux_grep Feb 01 '24

Pretty sure it’s an expression/quote from the Roman days that all you need is bread and circus to keep the population under control. Gladiator fights counts as circus, it’s not a literal circus, just something to keep you preoccupied. Reddit, TikTok, Facebook, reality TV, political drama, gossip press, etc.

It’s all there to distract you from those wielding the real power.

13

u/ClickF0rDick Feb 01 '24

Yep, panem et circenses, while the last section of what ChatGPT wrote is an essay about divide et impera

2

u/PopularDemand213 Feb 01 '24

It actually WAS a literal circus. In Roman times chariot races were held on large open air race tracks called Circuses. This was one of the primary means of entertainment that was supported and held by the Roman government.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '24

She’s just asking why she saw it twice today for the first time in her life. There’s a term for that phenomenon that when you learn about something you start seeing it more often. It’s just you noticing it more

2

u/The_Inward Feb 01 '24

Have you Googled it yet?

3

u/Shriuken23 Feb 01 '24

No, I listened to food theorys history of the world according to bread earlier today, so first time I noted it. I get it. Possibly just because its been pointed out to me. The timing and relevance to current life though is how conspiracies are born. Also pretty sure I just said a bit ago I was done with reddit for the night like a few minutes ago, but the circus had yet to perform the grand finale.

2

u/NeoTheRiot Feb 01 '24

They promised it for decades, but for decades it was just part of the clown charade.

2

u/The_Inward Feb 01 '24

It's an ancient and interesting concept.

1

u/trashpen Feb 01 '24

divide et impera is thousands of years old and always relevant.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '24

Was it all on Reddit? I've noticed on any given day my reddit feed might be "themed" or have a lot in common just within that day.

1

u/BlueLikeCat Feb 01 '24

It’s tomorrow now. Let’s talk about Rome some more, or maybe WWII.

2

u/Galaucus Feb 01 '24

Where's my bread? Can I get a better circus?

2

u/low-keyblue Feb 01 '24

I do not understand Noblesse Oblige's use in this context 🤔

1

u/The_Inward Feb 01 '24

The politicians see themselves as the nobles, obligated to care for the voters due to their privileged status, because we are foolish and silly and can't make decisions for ourselves. Therefore, they give us bread and circuses so they can go about their business without interference.

2

u/GringoLocito Feb 01 '24

Came for the bread. Stayed for the circuses. It's all a fuckin dog and pony show for the elites.

43

u/pha1133 Feb 01 '24

You guys are getting bread?

1

u/Masive_Lengthiness43 Feb 01 '24

you guys getting getting?

1

u/uglycrazyfuckface Feb 01 '24

Are you in Gaza?

25

u/Fully_Edged_Ken_3685 Feb 01 '24

Panem today, Panem tomorrow

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '24

A Homage to Catatonia

50

u/Nacho_Papi Feb 01 '24

In Spanish we call it "Baile, botella, y baraja." Which translates to dance, bottle, and cards. Keep the masses occupied and distracted.

1

u/aleikh Feb 01 '24

I thought we called it "Pan y circo".

1

u/Anforas Feb 01 '24

In Portugal we call it the Three Fs: Futebol, Fado e Fátima.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '24

I'm not Spanish but I'm pretty sure you call it pan y circo, sólo porque escribí de eso en un ensayo en la escuela jaja

1

u/Nacho_Papi Feb 01 '24

I am Hispanic.

12

u/Holeinmysock Feb 01 '24

I heard there was bread and a circus today? Do you have the link to purchase tickets?

2

u/FlingFlamBlam Feb 01 '24

Direct mental control?

1

u/Environmental_Home22 Feb 01 '24

I’m a sourdough and football guy myself. Rye and Wrestling have their spot in the rotation too

2

u/Steved_hams Feb 01 '24

Crumpets and cricket

1

u/bigheadstrikesagain Feb 01 '24

Beer and Baseball

3

u/CavemanWealth Feb 01 '24

A Shmoke and a pancake? A cigar and a waffle?. Yeah.

0

u/WelcomeFormer Feb 01 '24

Yuri Bezmenov had some Crack pot ideas in the 80s, don't look him up on YouTube unless you want to shit yourself lol Russian troll farms for the win! Ya just blame everything on trump and antifa while both sides call each other Russian spies, sad thing is they kind of are and don't know it lol

1

u/GarethBaus Feb 01 '24

If someone knew they would probably be a decent chunk of the way to running the world right now.

1

u/Zytheran Feb 01 '24

Bread, circuses and beer? Like, fed and distracted is one thing.

Fed , distracted and drugged I feel would be better.

1

u/HarryMcFlange Feb 01 '24

Bread, circuses, secret police and gulags work nicely for dictators.

1

u/JohnnyMnemonic8186 Feb 01 '24

Plus, divide and conquer.

1

u/RVA804guys Feb 01 '24

The last step is the unwritten one: let the system collapse on purpose to bring all allies and enemies to their knees, uniting all as dutiful worshipers and discarding those who oppose. It’s the long con and most empires don’t make it that far.

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u/creativename111111 Jan 31 '24

You can be aware of something but subconsciously fall for it, look at advertisements

3

u/Necessary_Space_9045 Feb 01 '24

Don’t be a bitch  

only buy off brand stuff

2

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '24

Big Offbrand Reddit shills 🙄

1

u/kalelmotoko Feb 01 '24

Placebo.

1

u/shakra888 Feb 03 '24

What the hell am I doin here?

17

u/EsQuiteMexican Jan 31 '24

How is that in any way nice??

27

u/letmeseem Jan 31 '24

It's nice that the more effective ways of subversion aren't in use

13

u/OGDraugo Jan 31 '24

Oh they are still used, just not in "civilized" parts of the world.

8

u/utkohoc Feb 01 '24

think warlords with child soldiers in africa.

2

u/Fully_Edged_Ken_3685 Feb 01 '24

Or the Spartan agoge that certain types worship

1

u/ROBINHOODEATADIK2 Feb 01 '24

Or US not so subtly creating a coup that leads to the death of their leader “ we came we saw he died “ - H Clinton

2

u/djp2k12 Feb 01 '24

You forgot the maniacal cackling at the end of that quote.

1

u/ROBINHOODEATADIK2 Feb 01 '24

Yeah but I already got downvoted for just the quite the laugh would probably get me banned 😂

2

u/penningtonp Feb 02 '24

I’d guess that the most effective methods are used in the “civilized” parts of the world too, they are just not noticed. Sneaky sneaky subverts.

1

u/OGDraugo Feb 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '24

Word! Great point! Get back in line pleb! How dare you say such things!

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '24

Would you notice if they were?

1

u/letmeseem Feb 02 '24

Like faking the moon landing to hide that we've landed on the moon?

2

u/rental-cheese Jan 31 '24

Clearly sarcasm

23

u/astalar Jan 31 '24

we haven't discovered yet

Once people discover them, they won't be that effective anymore.

38

u/T-Prime3797 Jan 31 '24

You say that, but they’re still using those tactics that we all know about against us. Note that there is a part it describes the system being too well established that tearing it down would be too disruptive for us to actually do it.

13

u/Too_MuchWhiskey Feb 01 '24

tearing it down would be too disruptive for us to actually do it.

Exactly what I would want my followers to believe.

Disrupting the system would be exactly the point of trying to stop them. The system would have to be dismantled.

2

u/Resident-Age1373 Feb 01 '24

Dismantling wouldn’t work china/ BRICS would just try getting the control In the chaos, and I’m not down for a different type of greedy folks. Best option would be a peaceful revolution of about 30% of people from each state to stop paying federal taxes on wages. It is considered that if 30% of military man power/capability are lost the war is considered lost. At the end if we don’t want them spending our money on stupid wars that other countries can handle themselves and putting our troops at risk why fund it. Alway goes back to the people in charge for making profits

2

u/Ok-Two3581 Feb 01 '24

The financial system has many tricks to extract value from the population besides income tax, they can deficit spend and inflate away the value of money, or impose import tariffs and make goods more expensive, for example.

0

u/Resident-Age1373 Feb 01 '24

Goods are already expensive and the dollar is already inflated as it is if they do more it can run the country into bankruptcy which in turn wouldn’t be good for anyone who including the allies

2

u/Scientific_Socialist Feb 01 '24

There's a certain funny bearded man who devoted a great deal of his life to scientifically studying the system to theorize its overthrow

2

u/TheSweetestOfPotato Feb 01 '24

George Carline?

2

u/MrMthlmw Feb 01 '24

Kraz Mazov?

2

u/ismellgeese Feb 01 '24

Sounds like work 😓

1

u/deadinsidick Feb 01 '24

Ted Kaczynski, but he died last year

7

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '24

we need to discover new words before I can effectively state how fucking ludicrous that statement is, lmao

2

u/Almost_A_Genius Feb 01 '24

That’s the joncefullest statement I’ve ever heard.

3

u/esywages Feb 01 '24

the a wonderful non-word. I went down a rabbit hole exploring Jonce.

- first search - a misspelled word. nice

1

u/Cheesemacher Feb 01 '24

It's a perfectly cromulent word

8

u/Fus_Roh_Potato Jan 31 '24

unless the tactic is to trick people into thinking they've discovered the tactic.

2

u/namenroodles91 Feb 01 '24

😂😂😂

9

u/WhereIsTheInternet Feb 01 '24 edited Feb 01 '24

Like installing 5g in everyone! You can only use 5g on a flat earth, because 5g doesn't go around corners. Our Lord and saviour, Jesus, told me that while waiting for my clothes to dry at the laundromat.

Jokes aside, I wonder how much of ops list was accidentally implemented or just unintended side effects. Consumerism can be seen as born from a desire to provide meaningful, helpful stuff for people, or outright greed trying to fleece people.

2

u/Cosbysnitenitejuice Feb 01 '24

Really thought I was on just a random, non conspiracy related post on TikTok or instagram for a second there.

Like a post about dogs or an obviously fake AI video about giants or something, why are these religious folks always in the comments like this? Are they all bots?

1

u/MBA922 Feb 01 '24

Consumerism can be seen as born from a desire to provide meaningful

There is a difference between stuff that genuinely helps your life, and "keeping up with the Jones'es" and flashy status generating esteem and social worth.

1

u/Inevitable-Refuse681 Feb 01 '24

"Flat earth" is the part mentioned "spread disinformation".

The whole flat earth psyop benefits the leaders and discredits any opposition.

2

u/FakeSafeWord Jan 31 '24

Brain control!

2

u/iPadBob Feb 01 '24

It’s so effective we know about it, study it in school, write and read books on it, produce and watch movies about it, and still just go about living right through it. So effective it’s become just life… 

2

u/Masive_Lengthiness43 Feb 01 '24

ask it next 'how can we counter it?', and it'll start spewing the mein kampf

1

u/binglelemon Feb 01 '24

What IS the Matrix?

1

u/noscopy Feb 01 '24

Hint.... Cattle cars of people that are "bad"

1

u/919471 Feb 01 '24

If by "we" you mean the general populus, yeah, but I'm sure there are several strategies already cooked up by some crusty consultants, lobbyists and politicians which we're already being influenced by without being aware of it.

1

u/tendymaker Feb 01 '24

Not so much new tactics but new technologies to refine the existing tactics

1

u/zSprawl Feb 01 '24

Kinda surprised religion didn’t come up…