Confronting people when they do immoral, unsafe, or stupid things. Most people seem to not be very confrontational. It seems the socially accepted thing is to let people be shitty.
This is huge. I tried calling people out when they did stupid shit but it was more stressful than it was worth. Most of them probably just kept being assholes anyway.
I'm confused. Which person are you calling an asshole? The one who made a mistake, or the one who's telling them they're wrong? Because I only ever hear the second person get referred to as an asshole. If you confront people for doing stupid/wrong/immoral things that don't harm you personally, you will be accused of being a judgmental asshole who should mind his or her own business instead of trying to tell everyone why they're wrong all the time.
I think they're referring to instances where people really shouldn't be doing a thing - like not wanting to get into a car with a drunk driver (and encouraging them not to driver)... stuff like littering and whatnot.
This is the main problem I have with this entire "confronting people" thing. They're probably bad themselves in many ways too, nobody is perfect except they're arrogant and sanctimonious enough to think so.
I generally don't confront people who are being pricks in public (I don't think I ever have, actually) for more reasons than the one I mentioned: (1) social anxiety, (2) knowing that yelling at someone in the street is just going to make them defensive, (3) the realization that my view of a person is not a complete picture and I don't know what's really going on.
I do have a temper sometimes, but it never causes me to blow up at people in public. I always try to defuse confrontation.
My point was, if you're a shameless litterer, or music blaster, or line jumper, or whatever it might be that disrespects the rights of others, you're probably making a decision that your needs trump those of the people your behavior is affecting, so challenging you on it will do no good.
I've heard roughly 150 to 500 joules of force transferred from your metacarpophalageal joints to their nasal cavity can rectify that behavior very quickly.
Not of they're in a position where they're supposed to be respectable. I still light up and say "Hey look! There's the Professor who rear-ended a guy, and then assumed himelf so important that he could remove the worker and his huge garbage collector from the service elevator! What a jerk!" And what is he going to do?
I don't think either of those are the kind of things they're talking about. They're talking about confronting someone because they did a bad job at fixing their own lawnmower, or because they are eating unhealthy food, or because they're gay. I think. If someone is doing something that affects you negatively then there's no social stigma against confronting them about it. The social stigma is against confronting people about things they're doing that are only hurting themselves.
I recently had a customer like that, guy was pissed I wouldn't give him a replacement and referred him to contact the manufacturer that would honor the warranty.
He started using Fuck as every other word, I asked him to stop because there were kids behind him. He responded by telling me they didn't fucking hear him and to just sell him the replacement. Told him no and to get out, his face was priceless.
No replacement. No refund. No blow job. Walked him to the door as he then started yelling at the mother of the children.
The problem I've encountered is that it's way too easy to come off like an asshole. When you criticize someone's actions or ideas, they tend to take it personally because it is in some way a part of their identity. I understand that feeling because I'm pretty defensive myself - if you've come to the realization that criticism should be taken at face value, think of what it took for you to realize that, and understand that not everyone has had that realization yet. You kind of have to get to it on your own. It's not like you can be really sensitive, and then take the criticism about how sensitive you are very well >.>
The trick is to avoid the big dramatic "confrontation speech" because this generally outs you as the emotional/unreasonable one. Calling them out should be a pretty minimal affair. You stare them directly in the eye with the coolest and most confident eye contact you can muster and you say one, maybe two sentences that smartly sum up how you feel about their shit. Then when they try to argue with you, you shut them down and refuse to engage ("that's nice" and "I'm sorry you feel that way" are excellent go to dismissive phrases).
Every time they will back down grumbling the whole time but you'll notice really quickly that a lot of them can't make eye contact with you. They know they're supposed to be ashamed of their behavior, they've just been conditioned by shitty enabling parents to constantly be defensive when confronted.
It's easier getting a heckling crowd going if possible. Turn other people to your side and discuss how horrible the offending persons behavior is together. It'll make them feel worse for disappointing more people. I find people in checkout lines can be real pieces of shit sometimes, especially to the cashiers, so I usually strike up a conversation with people behind me about how I'm always finding the lines with the most inconsiderate people in them, etc. We all have a good laugh and the offending person is called out that way. Can't work in every situation but it's effective.
As the cashier, I sometimes goad the customer (if he or she isn't physically threatening) get louder and louder until their unreasonable demands are heard by everyone in line and they get laughed at. Most recently, it happened with a man who wanted to return a used potty; he had been told when he purchased it that he could not return it if used for hygienic reasons. Management gave in (as usual) so I brought out a pair of gloves and a garbage bag and whatever else equipment I had. The man hissed at me to stop because his kid "is very clean" and that I was embarassing him.
Yeah, that'd backfire on me but chances are people agree with me as they've also noticed the person in front of me being a tool. I simply get the ball rolling here.
It's easier getting a heckling crowd going if possible. Turn other people to your side and discuss how horrible the offending persons behavior is together. It'll make them feel worse for disappointing more people.
I can never do this. a major reason why is because once back in high school two kids got into an altercation, and then one of them pulled the "but heartbrokenheartbeat thinks so too". I ended up getting punished for instigating a fight when all I had done with agree with one of the kids in the fight that the other one was a douche. It also happened at work one time. so from now on, I will never, ever get involved with their shit unless it directly affects me. you'd be surprised how quickly people will leave your side when they think that they might get in trouble. so if you are having an altercation with someone or a problem with them don't put the pressure on us to agree with you or be a part of the problem.
That said, I understand completely why you would think this is a good idea.
Exactly. I was at a theme park recently for the 4th of July and there was a fireworks show later that night. Well me and my gf found a good spot to watch the show and when it started, this huge mother fucker, and im talking land whale status, decided he was gonna stand in front of everyone to get a better view. I told the guy to be respectful and move so we and the people behind us can watch the show. This fucker looked at me and looked at everyone else and then just turned back around to continue watching the show.
We all ended up moving to a different area just to see the fireworks because of this fat lard ass.
Yeah, I've always been fairly apathetic and laid-back to the point that a lot of people have accused me of being "spineless " or walked upon, but honestly, I've tried caring, I've tried being argumentative and contentious, called people out on things, and it's honestly not worth the exertion. It rarely helps; most people just need to make their own mistakes.
The key is to find the people that are worth the time and effort. Some people are too much in denial for what I can get across in a short time. I feel like I can help almost anyone, but most people don't want to hear it.
If they're being assholes then there's not really a social stigma against this in the first place. What's socially unacceptable is confronting someone because they did a bad job at fixing their own lawnmower, or because they are eating unhealthy food, or because they're gay. Things that don't hurt anyone else, but they you personally think they'd have a better life or be a better person if they fixed.
People can't make that distinction anymore. There's a mass of people that think they can do whatever they want because they have a "that's how I was born" attitude, "So, you can't tell me not to piss on this guy because you're oppressing my freedom." They think it's their right to be an asshole and you're an asshole for saying something. It used to be that you would punch an asshole in the mouth, I even got my ass whipped and I deserved it. You can't really do that anymore because the cops will just arrest everyone, not even doing actual police work.
Different definitions of Immoral. If someone did hard drugs I'd probably ask them to stop. If someone made a mildly off color, politically incorrect comment on an internet forum, I'd not give a fuck.
Yes, but in modern American society, the greater evil is now seen as telling anybody else how they ought to live. Even having an objective standard of right and wrong makes you a bigot.
It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society. -Krishnamurti
People drinking and then driving comes to mind. I was at a friends house once, and one of his friends got drunk and then start fooling around near his truck. He starts digging out his keys (he's very drunk at this point) and gets in, and sits for a minute. I asked, are you guys going to let him do that? And they said well he's an adult it's his choice to make shitty decisions. He cranks the engine and drives off. Not 20 minutes later we get a call from him asking us to come pick him and his truck up because he got pulled over. I was like guys, he could have killed someone, and you all didn't even bat an eye.
One Friday night, I'm sitting in my house, watching TV and I hear a loud crash outside. A minivan has crashed into the tree in my front yard.
I run out to see if the driver is okay and when I get to his door, he's stumbling out and I'm hit with the smell of alcohol and airbag smoke. This dude is trashed. He starts wandering around, so I reach into the van, turn it off, and try to get this guy to come sit down instead of pacing in the road.
By now, my husband is calling a tow truck and the neighbors have come out to see what's going on, so we're just keeping an eye on the dude and chatting.
He apparently decided that the damage wasn't too bad, despite the radiator being wrapped halfway around the tree and a ton of fluids pouring out of the car, so he stumbles back in and starts it up.
The rest of us all back away to avoid getting flattened, but I run back to look at the license plate before he takes off. As I do, he gets back out and comes to open up the rear door because he can't see with all the airbag smoke still in the van.
When I realize what he's doing, I run back to the driver's door, turn off the van and grab the keys this time. Dude realizes what I've done and sort of drunk-rushes me to get the keys back. I get pushed into the door frame but manage to lob the keys over the van into my front yard.
He wound up getting arrested for drunk driving, I ended up with a fat lip, and our tree has a permanent scar. But no one was seriously injured or killed by that guy that night. Acceptable or not, I will take your fucking keys.
Edit: Thank you, kind stranger, for popping my gold cherry!
You did good. My cousin thought it was a good idea to drive drunk. Wrapped his car around a telephone pole. Killed his girlfriend, minor injuries to the couple in the backseat, but my cousin was in a coma for over a month. He is now in a wheelchair, with limited use of one hand, and has mental retardation. He will live in an adult care facility the rest of his life.
Thank you, it was over 20 years ago. I haven't seen my cousin in a long time and I feel guilty for not visiting, but not only is it hard to see him the way he is now, but he can be really inappropriate around females, even if we're related.
The guy screwed up his own life pretty well enough without me piling on. Plus, I stole the guy's keys. I can't blame him for the gut reaction of trying to get them back.
As someone who has both survived being struck by a drunk driver, and very recently lost a friend to someone who was speeding and texting on a residential street.
I had something like this happen. This woman stumbled out of a bar and was walking to her car getting her keys out. My friends and I were trying to talk her out of it, offering to call a cab or drive her home. She refused saying "I've already had a DUI, I know what I'm doing!" She started to back up and hit another car behind her. I had to push my friend out of the way because she was taking a picture of the license plate. We called the cops who showed up 20+ min later saying there wasn't much they could do unless the owner of the hit car wanted to press charges. I really wish I had just grabbed her keys out of her hand. Who knows what kind of damage she caused on the way home...
No, actually. He was in the house calling a tow truck and when he saw the guy rush me, he ran out of the house screaming, "Fuck you, I'm calling the cops!" and then pulled him away from me.
Hubs wanted the guy to get home safely but not necessarily get arrested (on that, our opinions differ), but once he saw the guy come at me, it was game over.
Right, I won't make that mistake again. I was very uncomfortable with the whole situation and taken aback quite a bit. After seeing my other friends' complacency, I will definitely act next time I see that. I don't know if that means wrestling the keys away from the person, or calling the cops as they drive off, but I'll be doing something.
Usually I find that offering to drive someone home or a spot to rest is all the intervention that's needed. If I'm hosting a party and a guest seems too drunk or tired to drive home, they're usually relieved to be offered a couch or bed or bit of floor to sleep on for a few hours until they're in better shape and can drive themselves home.
In my experience people will make dangerous choices because they're too embarrassed to ask if they can sleep it off or are worried you will be angry over the inconvenience.
In those situations it takes a surprisingly small amount of effort to stop the unsafe behavior. I've never had to wrestle keys away from anyone. A smile and a couple reassurances that I really don't mind is all it usually takes.
Right on, that is what we do too. This was an odd case, this guy wasn't a personal friend of mine and I didn't really know him. it was in the afternoon and he had no reason to go anywhere, he just out of the blue decided to get in his truck and drive off.
I think this particular case is a good example of the human tendency to let unpredictable situations play out without intervention due to morbid curiousity, as well as the bystander effect, where individuals feel less responsible both in groups and when bad things happen because of inaction vs. action.
It is fine to offer them a ride or a place to rest, but if you wrestle the keys away from them or call the cops you are a bit out of line. Its their life not yours. That's just my opinion even if it isn't a popular one.
I have a very similar story, but I ended up getting punched in the face (though I took his keys from him), but he didn't drive home with the girl, he walked.
Not sure where you are but in Canada, if I have a party and a guy gets drunk at the party, drives off and ends up killing somebody, I share culpability and can be brought up on pretty serious charges. And yah, it'd be idiotic to let him drive off, anyways.
Dude, "its his choice" I hate this so bad. I don't know what they really mean by it but the way I see it is a kind of "I don't give a shit, let everyone do what the fuck they want as long as it doesn't hurt ME". That drunk friend was only gonna kill a random stranger. "Meh, not my problem, it's his choice". As if adults coundn't be irresponsible retards
Why didn't you stop him, or say something to him, or even call the police preemptively? All well and good playing saint, but if you didn't stop him you're just as bad.
Some of us learn that it gets you nowhere most of the time. When you confront a shithead they won't magically stop being a shithead. I agree that it's right to intervene in a situation as it's happening e.g. school bullies.
It's not about them, though; it's about who's watching. I got picked on a lot as a kid... when a peer told off someone for being a dick to me for no reason, it helped me.
That kid was still a dick, but I realized that other people thought so too, which helped with understanding "no, it's not me, he's a dick."
If enough people get mad about something society tends to react as well, i.e. someone murdering you with their face if you were to mention you weren't for gay marriage.
Im usually a shy person but one year at six flags there was a lady getting so mad at this one employee who obviously had some sort of disability about too much ice/not the right amount of soda. The worst part of it? All this in front of her 6 year old daughter. After I finished my meal I walked up to her and basically called her out/being a cunt. The look on her face was so satisfying.
This makes you look like a massive dickbag though. Most people do absolutely not want to hear the truth if the truth is that they did something wrong or if they have an opinion regarding something that doesn't match up with reality.
You also have the problem that by telling someone that they're wrong, they might believe even stronger that they're right, even when they're wrong. For example, if you strongly believe that it's a reasonable idea to let people own guns for their own self defence, you're not going to back down on your opinion just because I'm currently telling you that you're wrong. In fact, you're probably agitated at me right now.
Fuck 'em. If I know I'm right, and they insist they're wrong, I don't have time for them. I don't want to associate with people incapable of admitting they were in the wrong. People who don't admit they were wrong never make any progress in life.
I give exactly 0 fucks. I like to think I'm a reasonable person, but I'm also not averse to confrontation. If they want to get up in my face about something they shouldn't be doing in the first place, I'll gladly get back up in theirs.
At least they'll have that confrontation in the back of their mind the next time they decide to engage in shitty behavior.
I've tried, even had video proof of a douchebag committing his actions. He got away free because his brother is a cop. Not the first time the cops have wiped away something for their personal gain in my life. :(
But when the cops pretend it matters when they secretly throw it out the window, that hurts way more than any satisfaction of voicing it. No clue why I'm being down voted, I'm clearly reporting crappy people, it's not my fault the cops are in on the crimes.
there was a teen on the bus, on the packed bus in the heat, (this was last thursday) and he's sitting in that bitch-seat in the elbow with his buddy the pre-teen. (white boys, couple of bro pupae as far as I could see) so mr cleverdick grins to himself, and in a seeming demonstration to his protegee, gets out one of those little travel spray things of AXE and proceeds to douse himself with it. armpits, back, neck, he's going at it.
so I call him out. "yo, knock it off, you're on a bus. I don't want to smell that, these people don't want to smell that, nobody does"
teen proceeds to smirk at me. but he stopped spraying the gasseous horror about. and I got off before the fumes saturated too badly.
God, yes. People get so defensive too. I personally would like to know whenever I do something wrong/stupid so that I can avoid doing it again. Makes complete sense to me but people get embarrassed and offended so easily.
That's the difference between socially unacceptable and self-perceived socially unacceptable.
If I saw someone calling someone out on something, such as littering, I'd be glad that someone felt they could do that and then did that. I don't feel like anyone but the litterbug would feel that they'd crossed a line either.
I confronted a friend in the major I am in about something he did that offended me. He apologized and actually thanked me for calling him out because he was unaware of doing it, and also aware he is capable of it and is trying to work on that. Better because of it
Hell yeah, man. I have noticed the same thing. People turn into spineless pussies when someone else's immoral and shitty behavior doesn't directly effect them.
Yep. People, put your phone away while driving. Nothing is more important that keeping your eyes on the road while you're in control of a two tonne vehicle.
I'm super big on that one. Its tempting sometimes, but when my phone goes off while I'm driving I just ignore it. No text is worth causing anyone even a small amount of pain, time, or money.
This. A big thing is when people are driving recklessly -- not checking blind spots, texting, plowing through cross walks, etc. All of my friends will just try to stay out of the way. You should always honk or try to communicate in some way. Getting out of the way won't stop them from endangering others in the future.
Come on people for the thousandth time obvious shit like a dude slapping his wife, someone attempting to get in their car while drunk, or when someone questions the divinity of Emma Watson/Chris Pratt/Jennifer Lawrence on the internet.
I mean, yeah. I'm not responsible for anyone's moral compass or personal safety but my own. If someone wants to be stupid (and they're not hurting anyone else), who am I to step in and stop them? It's not my problem and its just going to make them angry, so it's not worth my time to intervene.
We called out someone being a total dick about stealing a reserved park bench area and she not only refused to do anything or move her stuff unless an authority figure MADE HER do it, but she brought her daughter to the park to try and argue with us. We moved her shit to another table not in the large party area for her. Not to the trash, just to another table away from the guy who had originally booked the spot. When they tried to put it BACK ON THE TABLE we went back over again and asked them to stop. I'm like "you're being a dick. Someone has to stand up to you for trying to ruin someone else's birthday due to your own poor planning." Her daughter squared up on me but eventually backed down. I wished her son a happy birthday and said 'have fun over there lady'.
Most people avoid pointing these things out, because most people are intelligent enough to know, that their sense of morals, stupidity and safety is not universal.
Or most mind their own business unless they are directly effected. Unless it places me or a person I am with in danger I couldn't care less if another human is about to hurt themselves, die, etc. They have to learn somehow, and if their stupid enough to get themselves killed do that then they'll just find another way to do it again later.
Nah. Everyone I know gives people shot when they do stupid shit. And when we saw a bunch of kids doing something that could potentially get them killed we stood around and yelled at the one being encouraged to ignore their friends who were being stupid.
It takes a little bit of courage to speak up against someone's wrongdoings. Most people are afraid to invite the fight into their lives. Then one day those same people ~snap~ once they've had enough.
And that leads to shitty people getting indignant when you call them out on their shitty behavior. Every single person who avoids calling out shitty behavior is just as responsible.
The problem with that is morals, safety and intelligence are all relative. Enforcing moral beliefs on others is for religious nuts. And if a stupid person is doing something stupid or dangerous, unless it interferes with your safety I'd say you're just nosy and have a superiority complex.
To an extent. Or rather, yes, as long as it's done in a respectful and productive manner. I worked tech support and a lot of the baby boomers would be confrontational just to be an arse. Difference between "That's dangerous, you should stop" and "You're a fucking moron, I hope you loose your nutsack". Generally I find that if you call people out on their shit in a respectful manner, it actually develops mutual respect. Only really found that with millennials and gen X'ers though, baby boomers are just so entitled they respond to any criticism with petty insults and name calling. They just can't accept responsibility for their own actions, they always have to blame someone else for their problems.
I tend to make fun of people in these situations. I knew a guy who drove drunk sometimes, and people would talk about it behind his back but never confront him. Now, I'm not his mother so I'm not going to scold him. But I am a person who knows him, so I just started making fun of him for it one day. Nobody got pissed. It stayed friendly. And he knew that we were aware of it, and it was not being overlooked.
I'm a very confrontational person, but there's a huge difference between knowing to stay in your own lane and avoiding confrontation. I prefer to let this whole beautiful fuckpit of a planet go about its business unhindered until something directly affects me.
If you knew a way of living was very likely to involve them in harm, would it be loving to say nothing and just "accept" their lifestyle?
It is a real tension in our present society, at least in America, where you are considered evil for attempting to tell anyone they maybe shouldn't do what they are doing. For any reason.
Especially moral reasons. If the moral reason doesn't involve harming others, it's apparently hands off, shut up, be happy for me, keep it to yourself.
Modern morals in a nutshell: don't hurt anybody, unless there's a good reason, and do what feels good. The end.
Cultural norms are there for a reason. Not every tradition is worthwhile, but throwing off all restraint results in harm, which we as a species have learned through long lessons. Monogamy, for instance, results in both parents being there to raise a child, ideally. Broken homes are not healthy for the child. Marriage is a good commitment.
Fatherless families, children being raised by grandparents because of irresponsible young parents, the spread of STDs, all are results of promiscuity being seen as perfectly healthy.
I mean...what kind of things? If it's something that could hurt you, a loved one, or the public at large, sure, say something. Some people do this crap about minor stuff, though, like when you tell an off-color joke that they feel could offend someone.
Besides, what's moral and what isn't? Some people would walk around heckling gays, and other people would go around heckling gay hecklers, etc, etc. It's just better if we keep to our own business.
Why would confronting someone who does something immoral be considered socially unacceptable? did you not read the question and decide to just start patting yourself on the back?
Almost all of us get very defensive when someone else confronts us. That's why it's so hard. If everyone were better at self-reflection, and were more willing to confront others, they'd be more cooperative when confronted themselves.
Imo, someone who can never be confronted about anything, no matter how much they're harming themselves, is a narcissist. If they can't acknowledge that they're capable of doing something wrong or stupid, then they're full of themselves.
I do this. The question is, what do you want to achieve? Do you want to vent your anger / annoyance, do you want to look good by being moral, or do you want them to stop doing X?
If you want the last one, the thing I've found that works best is to be super polite and concerned for them / their safety. Earlier today I passed three people walking abreast on the bike side of a busy bike/walk path. Two cyclists had to slow down or swerve around them in the thirty seconds I watched.
Now, this place is really well marked. They knew. But I go up all, "Oh, hey, don't know if you guys saw, but actually the orange path is pedestrians? Yeah, it's pretty cool, right? I just saw you guys, and there's a corner right here - I don't want someone to come around it and not see you!" and a) they can't bitch me out, b) they're embarrassed enough to walk on the right side.
Concern is definitely a great way to respond to somebody doing something unsafe, or stupid. I generally confront people that way when it comes to safety especially. However, I am a soldier, and derision/yelling comes out of my mouth sometimes.
Previously I was living my life with a mantra of tolerance and accepting of all things. Some events within the past year have led me to believe this idea isn't as pure as I once thought and that there are some things that I shouldn't tolerate. Some people that I shouldn't tolerate and that my life will be better if I can better distinguish between when it is appropriate to tolerate someone and when it is not.
The right answer is probably somewhere between your original high tolerance views, and my low tolerance views towards asshats. Maybe Reddit has the right answer, and the problem is not enough cats.
I've been working on this one lately. It's hard to break the years of social conditioning intended to essentially make you too spineless to ever do anything other than mind your own business. But slowly and surely I've been "nutting up" to people.
That mother fucker cut you in line? Fucking stand up for yourself. Don't sit there and grumble behind him and stare daggers at the back of his head like that's accomplishing something. Grow a spine and tell him to move it to the back of the line. You know what I've discovered? People who do shitty entitled things tend to be gigantic cowards. Oh they love to pop off at the mouth at you when you call them out on shit but they'll do it as they slowly move to the back of the line. Let um run their mouth. You give them the coolest and most confident eye contact that you can (and remember kids, don't ever argue with stupid) and inevitably they will back down.
That's why they do shit like cut you in line. Because they're cowards with an inferiority complex and they feel an absurd need to "get theirs" somehow or the other. Cutting you in line is just a petty extension of that need. If they weren't insecure in the first place they wouldn't have done it so be pretty confident in knowing that if you just stand up to them you're already bigger, badder, and more alpha than they are.
That is certainly true. Most of those people are cowards, and they fall apart upon confrontation. It obviously depends on who confronts them though. Sometimes they are hoping someone "weaker" than them will say something so they can act all tough.
Weak or strong is in the eye contact. I am not a large man by a mile. I'm 5'4'' and a wee bit scrawny. They still back down from me because my eye contact says I'm not taking any of their shit.
As I've learned it has less to do with people being ok with people being shitty. It's that most of the people acting this way are usually dangerous and violent.
When you have a life, kids, and solid job the last thing you need is a fight with some asshole on the street because he parked in a handicap spot and dumped his trash all over the sidewalk. You never know what the other person is capable of or if he's fucking crazy. So unless you can actually take care of yourself/aren't afraid of death or jail it's usually best to shut up and silently wish he gets hit by a bus.
Yes. I call people out all the time when I'm commuting on the train and I'm the only one doing so. People don't even give pregnant women seats. I once saw a woman tell someone with a disability that she wasn't going to give up her seat. I tore her a new one and she was so ashamed she got off at the next stop.
For me I think it's just the town I currently live in, because I come from a place where if someone has a problem with you then they'll fucking tell you and you deal with it right then and there. When I moved here, everybody is too damn afraid to say what they really think and it annoys me to no end. I've always gone ahead and said whatever I needed to say. Here it seems I have to notice that someone has an issue and then pry it out of them so it gets fixed. People here dance around the the problem like it doesn't actually exist.
The one place I am glad to say this seems to be totally acceptable is rock climbing. I have talked to a number of people about safety related stuff and 99% of the time its a very civil and constructive interaction.
I do this all the time. I strongly believe in the power of social comdemnation for bad behavior. It doesn't help - the people will still be assholes after work. But at least they know people notice that they're assholes. I will call people out for cutting in lines, littering, allowing their children to behave badly in public, or any one of a number of other things. They can hate me if they want. I usually notice at least one or two other people giving me silent looks of approval. If everyone did this, we would have much less bad behavior. African people and the bullies rely on the fact that most people are so scared of confrontation they will do anything to avoid it. I tried to break that pattern.
My boyfriend is good at this, boy does he call people out. He got into a fight with a woman trying to cut the painfully long financial aid line at school. Her argument was that she didn't ask him, and that she wasn't cutting in front of him, because the guy she wanted to cut was a few people a head. Reminded me of the scene in Dead Like Me. Only no one clapped, just nodding in agreement that the chick was a bitch.
So instead of getting to the back she stared angrily at us from the sides, further wasting her time. She also shouted, in broken English, "Fuck you in the ass". It was funny.
This one is a tough one for me. I don't want to die, haha. Additionally...a lot of the times you could make a great case that people simply aren't equipped/have the experience for the confrontation and that it would be more harmful than good for them to try. If you are having a really shit day...you might not be the best person to start talking a person down from jumping from a ledge, etc.
I don't know what the right solution is, and many times I've called out people with obnoxious/ homophobic signs who wave them in my face, but I'm not sure I want shaming to be too socially acceptable
For real. I saw some mom backhand her kid at work and I'm like "Hey, don't do that!" and I got yelled at by her and then my boss says, "Mind your own business."
Also, getting fired for saying "yeah, well she should keep her hands to herself" was totally worth it.
I was pushed out of my job for standing up to a manager after I got sick from something at work. HR knows they denied it but it's a boys club. What kills me is now in hearing multiple stories where this has been an issue for others in the workplace too:/
I think most people (except perhaps the receiving party) would not judge you for confronting stupid behavior. However most people are also pussies and won't do the confronting themselves. So it's not that it's socially unacceptable, we're just all passive as fuck.
If it's only harmful to themselves and they're an adult who appears to not be mentally ill/disabled or anything: mind your own business. Seriously, I just can't back you up on that. Leave them be.
If it's harmful to others: your call. Morally, I think you're in the right, but my only caveat is: be damned sure. Meaning that you better be right - if you interfere with something I'm doing simply because you misread it and turn out to be wrong, presuming your misreading of it wasn't something most people would've done (that is, they'd have known better), then I'm not going to give a damn about your alleged "good intentions", I'm going to give a damn about the fact that you just fucked shit up and should've known better.
Immoral yes, but unsafe or stupid things are a gray area IMO. If they aren't aware of the risks then tell them, but if they're strangers or they are aware of the risks then leave them to it. For example don't bother some random alcoholic about the dangers of liver failure, but if your friend doesn't understand that alcohol is bad then you really should tell them.
Obviously this is assuming that everyone who could be harmed by what they're doing is also aware of the risks and willing to take them. So for example you can be as obnoxious as you want (within reason) to someone who's about to drive drunk.
I love those looks I get when I successfully manage to broach these topics openly, publicly, and respectfully, with compassion for the offending person.
People just stop, stare and think, "How the fuck did he just do that? He stopped and spoke about a challenging thing and no one feels awkward. WTF?" I feel like a God every time! It's the best! You've just got to fully be in the shoes of the transgressing person,and treat them with love and perspective.
since ive been playing more video games, im a lot less bothered about calling someone out on their BS. im not doing anything wrong. if anything it saves time and money.
example: person at work asked me to not move the mountain of crap from my workstation while i was moving it. there are 3 other people around us. his task was to clear out all the crap from everyone's stations (was last hour of the shift), but if it doesnt get done, 0 consequence. under normal circumstances i would have helped. but not this time. i generally dont like this guy, but im more than willing to help IF its in our interest.
i was currently tasked with generating the shortstocked items that 100% needed to be done within 30min. so its clearly of high priority. this guy already has 2 people helping him, and he has the gall to tell me to stop what im doing and help him then calls me a jackass when i shove the mountain of crap out of my station. its a giant slip-hazard andim surrounded by sharp objects, and its blocking me from doing my job. so i tell him "piss off and do your own job. i aint got time for your shit" and carry on with what im doing.
the people around him actually leave him and go back to what they were supposed to be doing. guy working with me "hahaa, good one." im sick of this guy always looking for shortcuts and trying to do as little as possible.
for context i work in a warehouse that supplies heathrow with all the stuff that goes onto their flights.
I agree. I confront people especially if I find out they're bad mouthing or talking about me behind my back. I just walk up and say "hey, I heard you were talking about me, is there anything I did to offend you or something that you want talk to me about? This is your opportunity for me to listen". Most of the time people start freaking out and lying and walking away, but they won't talk about you anymore.
Sir? SIIIIIR? Excuse me, but you're the reason the gene pool needs a lifeguard. Now please step down from the ledge and hand me the selfie stick, SLOW LIKE.
Since when is that a socially unacceptable thing? Most people don't give a shit about other people and for me that is socially unacceptable. Helping others and calling other people out when they do something shitty or immoral should never be socially unacceptable.
I never really got this. What does a confrontation do? Why do it? Either they know what they're doing, in which case it does pretty much nothing, or they don't know what they're doing, in which case just letting them know that they're doing something wrong is enough. I mean, what's the point of saying "You are doing __ and that is wrong!"?
You should move to new york city. I agree entirely, but for some reason here, people are very direct. There is still a bit of what you mentioned, but people call shit out on stuff when it's often none of their business. I find it oddly refreshing.
Agreed! Half of the shit I see on Reddit is people saying "oh my dad does this, it's so embarrassing to go to restaurants with him when he does it" and the like. How about saying "Dad, I'm not going to restaurants when you do XYZ shitty thing" ? People act badly because they can. Because we allow them to.
I saw a guy parked in a handicap spot. No plate, no placard. I waited til he came out to give him and his she-whale of a gf a piece of my mind. They went on about "cundishuns" and "rascism". But fuck, when I made the decision to call you out, I didn't know what color your skin was.
If they don't bother anyone('s property), let them do unsafe/immoral(whatever actions you class as such)/"stupid"(again your classification) things. It's their life, not yours
If someone is going to put other people at risk or hurt them (physically or emotionally), definitely say something. But it goes to far when people get all confrontational just because they think your choice is immoral.
For example, my in-laws making a huge issue about a family member wearing a kilt because "men wearing skirts is against God". They thought it was immoral -- they're entitled to that, but he's not hurting anyone so shut up.
Yeah that is definitely ridiculous for someone to believe as being immoral. However they only believe that because they themselves are not particularly moral people to begin with. Definitely illogical people at least. That for me would be a situation where I would have a hard time remaining silent. There is so much actual evil, and terrible things in this world that if you seriously think a kilt is a problem then you are obviously not a truly moral person. That is just self justification morality. Trying to excuse how shitty you are by not doing X bullshit thing that you wouldn't be doing anyway to pretend you are better than others, and in doing so justify your own existence.
So when some guy in the mall is beating the shit out of his 7 year old I should just keep walking? Or do you mean people should take more concern in what is happening to the people around them because they live in a community?
"Morals" refer to personal belief, and you should usually keep those to yourself in public. "Ethics" define right and wrong with the scope of a society.
Eg: someone might believe that marriage equality is morally wrong, but it is ethically right.
I noticed a lot of people replied questioning why I said immoral behavior. Well since apparently some people, usually shitty people who like to justify their shittiness, get butthurt at the very thought of having someone tell them they are immoral I guess I can clarify. If you see someone being raped should you
A. Intervene regardless of the threat to your safety.
B. Intervene if you are armed/trained, or if not immediately call for people like that to help.
C. Do nothing cause you are a pussy.
D. Do nothing because you don't care.
If you answered A, or B congratulations you have successfully completed the human being test.
Yes yes some morals are opinion. However, there is plenty of obvious things that you simply cannot pretend to be a good human being if you let someone do in front of you. Physical abuse, and letting people drive drunk are good examples. Also I would rather have people tell me I'm doing something immoral, and be wrong than people say nothing at all because they are too self centered to care.
You have to rember that not everyone shares the same morals as you do and you can't hold people to your own personal set of them. I agree if someone's going to do something that can harm others speak up but if it's only hurting or being stupid to themselves then let it happen.
That in itself is a pretty immoral position to take. For small shit saying nothing is of course fine. However, saying that you shouldn't intervene when someone is doing something that is detrimental to their own health, or well being is honestly just inhuman. I am a soldier, and believe me I can easily be an asshole like that. That shitty "fuck em" mindset. Its very easy for me to see weak people, and just think "fuck em let natural selection handle them". Unfortunately I am a human being, and it is simply against my nature to let natural selection kill off the weak/stupid just because I don't feel like doing anything about it. If someone you know is drinking themselves to death what are you gonna do just say nothing? Well over here in humanity ville I'll continue at least attempting to help people who need it.
Also most people who we see doing things that are self harming are neither weak nor stupid. They just don't know anyone with enough character to step in, and help them.
I see where your coming from. But I think that our morals differ here. I'm not saying fuck it let em die. I'm saying don't judge them or call them immoral for what there doing.
I often wonder if people like that are factually just big kids whose minds forgot to flick on the right switches after puberty. Like how can an adult behave that way?
I think she thought she was standing up for the rules and being a responsible citizen. Her behavior was less like a child, more like an out-of-control mom.
There were also some weird undercurrents: he was white, male, and had a relaxed and liberal attitude, and she was black, female, and had an uptight and conservative attitude. She interpreted his refusal to switch cars as more aggressive than it was, got offended, and ended up exaggerating the story. She may not have realized how much she was escalating things.
In the "conversation" after I confronted her, it sounded like she was basically frustrated that white dudes get to break rules. Her behavior was totally out of control for the situation, but I sort of get where she was coming from. Sort of.
Haha fuck social standards. I walked up on this piece of shit family who was feeding who the fuck knows what to a Jaguar at a zoo and told them to fuck off.
People get so uppity when you tell them that they're doing something wrong. I don't get it. If I'm being an asshole or am wrong about something I want people to tell me. That's how I learn to not do it again.
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u/bossk123 Jul 13 '15
Confronting people when they do immoral, unsafe, or stupid things. Most people seem to not be very confrontational. It seems the socially accepted thing is to let people be shitty.