r/Aquariums • u/otterboi123 • May 28 '24

Begging for snails Saltwater/Brackish

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1.9k Upvotes

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Nerite snails can do brackish water and in fact will only successfully reproduce in it rather than salt or fresh water which they can also live in. But they are bigger snails, although when my tank got algae i just threw two in and it was gone in a week with my buddy telling me “that tanks crystal clear man”

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u/Emuwarum snailsnailsnail May 29 '24

It's not exactly brackish water that they reproduce in either. And there are a few hundred species that need different conditions. And even if you can get the right conditions they're nearly impossible to raise in captivity.

And with the ones that you do keep in aquariums you don't really want to keep them in brackish as it can shorten their lifespan. At least last I heard on that subject.

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u/Bammalam102 May 29 '24

Okay care to explain what species can or cannot for a newer person? Thats what op wanted and what I did my best to provide them with. Everything i have read so far says nerites can be acclimated to any salinity and the eggs only hatch in brackish water. And if you always have fresh snails it does not matter if their lifespan is shortened a bit (think raising shrimp temp to make them reproduce faster, but also shortening the lifespan)

Its best to simplify as much as possible as the way you offered your knowledge makes it seem much more intimidating than it is to find snails for brackish water.

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u/AmandaDarlingInc Neritidae Snientist Jun 01 '24

It is kinda intimidating and it should be. The neritids were talking about in the family Neritidae aren't brackish OR freshwater, they're amphidromous. On top of that there are ones that are strictly marine, freshwater dominant and arboreal. You say that it shouldn't matter if we shorten their lifespan for the purpose of reproduction and I couldn't agree less. I think that's pretty unethical. I don't know why you would be comfortable with that.

I'd imagine that what you've read is largely blog based and anecdotal. A lot gets repeated over and over online regarding these guys. Be careful of your sources, you want someone who can show you what they're doing or is credibly citing what they say.

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u/Bammalam102 Jun 01 '24

Id be comfortable because even as humans if we bred too much we yould do what is necessary to ensure survival of the fittest, as is nature. If they breed in the right conditions but die a bit slower what is the matter if the net gain is more than loss. You are still giving life to lots of others. Since you have not linked anything saying it is impossible to breed nerites in captivity and i have read that it is possible i will continue to not believe you on how difficult they are to keep alive until more than one source says othewise… yet alone one human on reddit

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u/AmandaDarlingInc Neritidae Snientist Jun 01 '24

What? What does breeding too many of them and being responsible with the offspring have to do with shortening their lifespans? Die a bit slower? They're dying faster. Giving life to others that develop traits in captivity we don't want isn't a net gain. Are you talking about domesticating them or something?

You want me to prove something hasn't happened? You can't prove something is impossible. Nor have I said it was. You still haven't read that it was possible. That's an infamous fishlore post and if you read through you'll find it pretty dubious. Dude posted too early. He was mistaken. There were no nerititds that survived. We're not even sure that's what they were to begin with, he couldn't prove it. Make a fish lore account. If you can lure him out, I'd love to hear from him.

Speaking in absolutes in this industry is silly so I don't say can't/won't/impossible, I'm not here to argue semantics, but it is hard and it's a huge issue in circles that deal with malacology and conservation. Hobbyists really do not get it and I think it's because the snails are so readily available to you and your LFS doesn't emphasize their attrition rates during harvest, trafficking, acclimation etc. There are like 300 species in the family Neritidae. They're almost the most widely distributed family of snails world wide and extremely old. Like, no ones out here turnin

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u/AmandaDarlingInc Neritidae Snientist Jun 01 '24

and burnin broodstock at any salinity, not for lack of trying. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335660879_Biogeographic_conundrum_Why_so_few_stream_nerite_species_Gastropoda_Neritidae_in_Australia I know two people in the US, one team in Italy and an Australian team. This was a Brazilian team, who I think has since moved on. Theres not really any money in this! https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233429602_Spawning_and_intra-capsular_development_of_Neritina_zebra_Bruguiere_1792_Mollusca_Gastropoda_Neritidae_under_laboratory_conditions I think it was like 40 days in lab conditions. The Australian team produced a hatch and four months of development but those snails never reached sexual maturity. https://www.ajbasweb.com/old/ajbas/2022/December/17-21(3).pdf.pdf) I dunno where this team is, Indo/pacific I'd guess because of the snail they chose? I haven't looked at these studies in years but yet another species and a struggle to get generations https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352513424002333 and they're really trying hard because Clithon diadamea has a threatened status now. Also, were all just a human on reddit unless you're a lizard from under Denver so I dunno what emphasis that was supposed to have...

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u/Bammalam102 Jun 01 '24

Okay, even you said certain species are possible just not readily enough to support the trade. Could it support one tank for op?

Yeah i misworded it a bit.

I still appreciate the knowledge, even if you see to be against me instead of teach me. have they tried taking the young out of salinity and readding them once mature? Im sure this could he what happens in nature as brackish water could be a fresh stream into an ocean and the young move where its safe? Ive not the time to read all of those at the moment but since you have provided stuff i can check later i will begin to take your word

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u/AmandaDarlingInc Neritidae Snientist Jun 01 '24

I dont know what you're talking about. OP's video is a fish swimming around, I don't even see a question. Support one tank what?

If they want to spend thousands to breed neritids in a humid, still water lab? I don't know why they would want to? It's a full time job. It's expensive. It's incredibly low yield. I really don't know what the goal is. You haven't given me a species so I dunno what to tell ya.

Additionally, what country does OP live in? If OP wants freshwater neritids they have to be on the European continent, if they want amphidromus ones they need to be largely outside of Europe, if they want marine ones they need to be on islands that have those locally or will permit import. I don't need you to take my word, I'm not trying to teach you anything, I'm trying to impress upon you that here's decades of research, people do this for a living, and the result is that all neritids in the trade are still wild caught. I mean, I run a literal lab, like me and others get paid to make this work and we still haven't. Have we tried XYZ that Balamalama on reddit thought of in the shower one day? Yes. Yes we have. Everything you want to know is in those papers as well as hundreds and thousands of others.

You seem to like analogy so here goes this... the conversation were having is like me telling you the car won't start because someone has stolen the cat converter, you see me put the key in and try to turn the engine over and when it doesnt work... you ask me to put more gas in and then look at me surprised that the car still wont turn on... We're talking about the same thing, but you don't have enough information on the subject to understand what the problem is.

1

u/Bammalam102 Jun 01 '24

So what is the problem

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u/AmandaDarlingInc Neritidae Snientist Jun 01 '24

The problem is you wont tell me what species you're even talking about...

I cant even get into the biology because I dont think you even know what Im saying when I ask you what species you want to know about...

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u/Bammalam102 Jun 01 '24

Im asking which one would work to actually breed in the brackish water. As i said i do not know too much and you have also restated it quite a bit. Thats where your expertise comes in, i was just attempting to give the person a lead on snails for brackish water not argue about it

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u/AmandaDarlingInc Neritidae Snientist Jun 01 '24

None. None will work. I think you just don't want to hear that?

I still don't know what the context is here but... why wont it work? Even if OP were to get the right snails, get them to mate, get them to lay, get the water chemistry right, get them to hatch... they would then get immediately ripped apart by your filter. If you can get past that then theres more and more stages we have to try to imitate in the natural world that we don't know enough about! What are you going to feed them? I talk to a university with an algae library like every other month. I pay people with PHDs in algae and mollusks and shrimp of all things to consult on these projects. There are dozens and dozens of reasons it doesn't work outside of laboratory conditions. You can't just like, raise them in an aquarium one weekend.

You may not want to argue but you keep insisting it must be something simple like "well the ones that breed in brackish" and it isn't. It's a hundred parameters and they all have to line up perfectly. Were scientists, not gods. Feeding a free swilling hatched snail larvae and keeping it clean and safe is so hard. I don't know how else to say it but... it wont work, whatever you and/or OP are trying to do, you don't know enough about it and it's not something you can learn on reddit in a day. If you do really want to know, you're welcome to join us in r/snailbreeding and r/AquaticSnails but I don't know what else it is that you want to hear and I'm not boiling a century of works down into two paragraphs for you. These snails just don't work like that.

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u/otterboi123 Jun 04 '24

Why are the snail people arguing

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