r/personalfinance • u/aBoglehead • Jan 11 '16
PSA: It's that time of year again. If "the IRS" calls you demanding money, it's not the IRS. Taxes
Here is a partial list from the IRS of known, common scams:
https://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Scams-Consumer-Alerts
Note that the IRS will never: 1) call to demand immediate payment, nor will the agency call about taxes owed without first having mailed you a bill; 2) demand that you pay taxes without giving you the opportunity to question or appeal the amount they say you owe; 3) require you to use a specific payment method for your taxes, such as a prepaid debit card; 4) ask for credit or debit card numbers over the phone; or 5) threaten to bring in local police or other law-enforcement groups to have you arrested for not paying.
The IRS also offers these tips on how to recognize, avoid, and report tax scammers.
If you get called by a scammer, consider collecting their stated name, phone number they are calling from, and number you are directed to call and reporting it to TIGTA and/or the Federal Trade Commission (with "IRS Telephone Scam" in the notes). DO NOT GIVE OUT ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION.
I highly recommend that those of us with elderly parents or family members share the word. The elderly are some of the most vulnerable when it comes to online or telephone scams.
As a humorous anecdote, last night I received a call from an attempted phone scammer. Blah blah blah a recent judgment in a tax court means I owe $8,152.91 in back taxes that was due last year. As a favor to me, they were willing to settle for $6,000. What a bargain.
454
u/pinkfloyds Jan 11 '16
If the "IRS" calls you at all, it's probably not the IRS.
210
u/Rogue100 Jan 11 '16
They can call you back after you've initiated contact. I had to call them several times this past year while sorting out a tax issue. One time the rep wasn't able to answer one of my questions at that time, and asked if she could call me back once she had the relevant information. Received a call from her about a half hour later.
They won't just call you out of the blue though.
→ More replies34
u/Brrdy Jan 11 '16
Yeah they're far more likely to visit you, where they show their ID and shit.
153
u/TheLordB Jan 11 '16
Actually they are far more likely to send you a letter. It will be personalized (meaning it will include your real name and other stuff specific to you) and explain what the contact is about (saying you screwed up and owe money, saying you screwed up and they owe you money etc.).
That said I would confirm that all addresses and phone numbers match publicly available ones before using them just in case it is a sophisticated scammer.
→ More replies34
u/absentmindedjwc Jan 11 '16
saying you screwed up and they owe you money
Ha... right. I screwed up resulting in them owing me money.. took me a couple years to notice before submitting a 1040x. At least they've paid me back unlike the crooks in the state of Illinois who have just been sitting on the paperwork for the past two years. I check back every few months - still in "processing".
→ More replies29
u/smoothtrip Jan 11 '16
Ha... right. I screwed up resulting in them owing me money.. took me a couple years to notice before submitting a 1040x.
I over paid last year and they sent me the money immediately. I think they do not like you.
18
Jan 11 '16
Yeah, the IRS is no joke and I think that goes both ways (in many cases) i.e. when they err or you err.
→ More replies4
49
Jan 11 '16 edited Jan 11 '16
But it actually could be. I got what I naturally assumed was a scam phone call last year ("this is the IRS, need to resolve a matter, yada yada, please call [number] which you can verify at our website"). It was strange and I was freaked out. I called back through their official number to confirm. Turns out, it wasn't a scam, and there really was a problem that I had to fix. I was pretty shocked as it came right on the heels of the IRS head's public statement that they never call. I don't know what conditions merit it, but they do, or at least they did last year.
So the takeaway from this is: No, do NOT discuss with anyone who calls you claiming to be the IRS. Hang up and call the IRS on their official line and give them whatever case number was given to you. If it's a scam (and it almost certainly is), you'll be able to report it. If not, you can take care of whatever business they have with you.
PS: Any "threat" can be taken as proof that it's a scam.
→ More replies23
32
14
Jan 11 '16
If you've called them FIRST this isn't the case, just FYI to everyone out there. If you call the IRS and they need to return your call, they will. Otherwise they'll communicate with you via mail.
24
u/Charwinger21 Jan 11 '16
Yeah, we just got a similar post in /r/Toronto about scammers claiming to be from the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA). They pretty much never call you either. He was my response:
Accountant here. The CRA will pretty much never call you.
They'll send you mail. Letters. Even email if you sign up with them (although they try to limit what they send through email and they almost never send links).
They will typically not call you though (well, unless you call their helpdesk about a ruling on a particular manner and request a callback).
They want a record of everything they say and do.
Keep in mind though, that letters claiming to be from the CRA can still be scams. Don't just blindly trust someone because they claim to be from the CRA. If you're worried, call in. If something looks fishy, call in. If you're not 100% sure, call in.
If someone claims to be from the CRA, thank them for informing you of the issue, and then call the CRA itself to verify that they were actually an employee/that whatever the issue was is actually an issue.
Do not give out personal information to someone who contacted you.
If you want to call, a lot of people here would probably need the Individual income tax and trust enquiries line (1-800-959-8281), but there are also a couple other lines like the Businesses and self-employed individuals line (1-800-959-5525).
Don't be afraid to call. The phone support staff are lovely people. I deal with them constantly and they always do a fabulous job.
edit: Also, the CRA doesn't really send threats. They just kinda go "You owe this much. If you think we are wrong, submit your objection within one year after the date of the return’s filing deadline or 90 days after the day we sent the notice of assessment (whichever comes later)."
→ More replies8
Jan 11 '16
Right? The government does not move quickly. They will generally send you a certified letter first before they call. If they call at all. Usually they just make you call to get it all sorted out.
7
u/kevhito Jan 11 '16
I had them cold call me twice. First time: IRS: Hey, this is the IRS. You claimed a son with SSN X, but that's not possible, and every other year you listed it as Y. What's up? Me: Huh. (checks papers). You are right... I guess I typed it wrong, can you fix it? IRS: Done. Thanks bye!
Second time: IRS: Hey, IRS here. You can't claim credit X because you didn't submit paperwork Y. ME: Huh. (checks papers). You are right. Guess I overlooked that. IRS: No problem, just send us the papers and a letter explaining. Bye!
→ More replies14
Jan 11 '16 edited Jan 31 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
11
Jan 11 '16
Truth. They called me and I ended up on hold. I felt less suspicious with each passing minute. :D
110
Jan 11 '16
Happened to me 2 years ago, I already had paid the taxes and still called me with all the details. They even knew where I had worked in the past and from where I owe the taxes from. Also, being a legal immigrant, they threatened me that if I don't pay them over the phone right away or hung up they would send the local police and deport me from the country. I was just about to go to 7 eleven to get their form of payment and send them 1700, but decided to ask my boss about it before doing it. Turned out he knew all about this scam. That was a nasty 4 hr call.
32
Jan 11 '16
A credit bureau will sometimes have your previous employment information.
Or they got their hands on an old resume of yours.
I'm curious, where did they tell you to send the $1700?
26
Jan 11 '16
If I remember correctly they told me to go buy the green card from the weekend or seven eleven worth 1700 and send the number over the phone. Later found out that there payment method they wanted was practically untraceable.
28
Jan 11 '16
Green card? Is that a prepaid credit card?
Yeah totally scammy. IRS doesn't take credit cards or cash. They only take cheques or wire transfers, stuff that can be traced.
18
→ More replies5
Jan 11 '16
The IRS absolutely accepts credit cards. They prefer ACH/wire transfers, but they still accept basically anything but cash.
→ More replies→ More replies13
u/Softcorps_dn Jan 11 '16
That sort of scam shows up on Instagram all the time these days. People claiming they can 2x-10x increase your prepaid card if you give them the numbers because their friend or accomplice has access to "the system".
→ More replies17
→ More replies10
u/diamond Jan 11 '16
There was a massive security breach at the IRS last year (and more recently, one at the OPM, which I was informed about because I once had a security clearance). So I'm sure a lot of these scammers are working off of data that was stolen in that breach.
→ More replies
66
u/Blackultra Jan 11 '16
I had a similar scammer call me at my work a few months ago. I knew immediately it was off because they were demanding repayment of my student loans in an amount I've never heard of. It wasn't so small to be an individual loan from one semester, but it wasn't large enough to be my total student loan sum. My guess is they ballparked a number that a Senior at my school would probably have. Jokes on them cause I'm a nontraditional student so my loans are generally much higher than other students please kill me
Anyways, once I knew they were fuckin' with me I decided to fuck with them. Acting incredibly incompetent about where I should go to pay and at one point "forgetting" that I had any debt. It went so far that I could tell the guy started getting frustrated (even through his accent) but I asked if I could pay over the phone with a credit card. He sounded relieved, I told him to wait while I went and got it.
Did I leave him hanging? Hell no. After a few seconds I started reading off my "credit card number", but I didn't stop listing numbers off (in 4 digit clumps, like a credit card number is). After the initial 16 numbers he once again sounded relieved, but I just kept going. I think I got to about 32 numbers before he hung up on me
14
3
→ More replies3
116
u/eajenkins Jan 11 '16
I've gotten several of these calls. The most recent used the usual script but with "Treasury department" substituted for "IRS". The word is getting out, but some will still try to find ways to milk this scam.
24
u/diamond Jan 11 '16
I got one once where the guy (with a very thick Indian accent) claimed to be from the "Legal Department". That was it. No agency name, no company name, no identification number -- just "The Legal Department". All I could do was laugh; I wanted to ask him if his name was Vincent Adultman.
It's infuriating that people do this shit at all, but sometimes they're so stupid about it that you can have some fun messing with them.
→ More replies→ More replies58
u/TheHoaxHotel Jan 11 '16
If you have time, it's important to mess with these scammers and bait them along for as long as possible.
27
Jan 11 '16
My older sister used to get a ton of scam calls asking for what we assume was an elderly woman. She would tell them time and again that there was nobody there by that name and she knew it was a scam anyways, but they kept calling several times a day. One time on a road trip my Dad told her to pass the phone to him and he proceeded to talk in an old lady voice with them for the next 30-60 minutes. When they asked what if he had a credit card he said yes, when they asked what kind it was he told them it was a pretty one with flowers on it. The only other parts I can remember was everyone trying not to laugh too loudly while he was on the phone.
39
u/diamond Jan 11 '16
In a strange, twisted way, I'm kind of hoping one of them calls me, for exactly this reason. I'll have all kinds of fun with them.
60
u/Hayes231 Jan 11 '16
"ah yes you see most of these things should fall on my wife, she makes most of the income"
continue on about how you are separated because she was cheating and how you are thinking of forgiving her because of how lonely you are. when in actuality you never had a wife and its all bullhsit
→ More replies→ More replies8
u/IrishPrime Jan 11 '16
Answered the phone at my mom's house while visiting. Apparently someone from "Windows" was calling about how we were victims of counterfeit software.
- I'd read about this scam on Ars Technica and listened to one of their writers mess with the scammer for a really long time.
- Used to work as a repair tech, then in IT, now as a software engineer. I've been building systems since I was in elementary school. I know my way around a computer.
- The only systems in the house run Linux.
Nobody else was home and I was bored. I must have spent half an hour on the phone with this dude just messing with him. It was kind of amusing, but if I had anything else to do, I would have.
17
u/psinguine Jan 11 '16
Every second you spend baiting them is a second they're not actively scamming someone gullible enough to fall for it.
→ More replies27
u/GoblinGeorge Jan 11 '16
I got one of these calls last year and by the time I got off the phone, he sounded close to tears and actually apologized to me.
Fun times.
→ More replies
643
u/kopf-jaeger Jan 11 '16
You are correct. A few weeks ago I got a bill from the IRS saying that I owe them $1,600. After consulting my CPA, we determined that I only owe them about $34. FUN FACT: the IRS apparently doesn't care about pennies, nickels and dimes.
240
u/gazeebo88 Jan 11 '16
IRS rounds up and down to nearest dollar. .49 and less down, .50 and more up.
I work in an accounting firm and we are fixing to get into tax season.
200
Jan 11 '16
IT'S THE MOOOST WOOOONDERFUL TIIIME...OF THE YEEAAARRRR...
For me, anyway. I adore tax law. The arbitrarity of it all is hilarious.
→ More replies108
Jan 11 '16
I just love it because it's when we make most of our money
23
Jan 11 '16 edited Mar 21 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
46
Jan 11 '16
Yes but it is one of those things you should expect, especially working in a public firm. It's like going into the military and complaining about boot camp - it is necessary and you should've expected it.
I have a finance/accounting degree and have spoken to many former/current students that work in tax firms. February-May is hell, but the rest of the year is much more easy-going. It obviously depends on the firm, number of employees, and the management's attitude.
A good friend of mine just started her junior year at the local university and works as like a secretary/help job under the CPA. She works 60+ hours a week helping at the firm January-May, and then they let her work part time during the rest of the year so that she can go to school. Pretty sweet gig.
→ More replies13
u/sxpellman Jan 11 '16
how could she work 60+ hours a week and still go to school?
→ More replies28
Jan 11 '16
She doesn't during that semester. She goes to school during Maymester, summer and the fall.
Edit: she makes a good bit of money during that time, so she doesn't have to stress about money the rest of the year.
6
u/some_random_kaluna Jan 11 '16
So her school has three or more quarters instead of two semesters, where she can have such a schedule. Sounds like an impressive school.
8
Jan 11 '16
Yes there is the fall and spring, like usual but some classes are offered in may and summer. There are some upper level courses in the summer so that helps too.
→ More replies6
u/EurotrashInTexas Jan 11 '16
Most University of California campuses run on the quarter system, so you have 4 every year.
→ More replies7
Jan 11 '16 edited Jan 11 '16
Yeah we work about twice the normal hours we work the rest of the year. You gotta step back and take a look at the big picture though: We bust our asses working 80 hour weeks from the last week of January until April 15th (18th this year.) and then the rest of the year is relatively easy. Sure, we have quarterly reports, RPIE's, extension deadlines, etc. throughout the rest of the year but it's not all at the same time so it's much more manageable. The end of tax season is always the worst because, on top of the tax deadline, there's also the deadline for quarterly payroll reports so we usually end up really swamped the last week of March through April 15th. August, forget about it. The few people that aren't on vacation spend more time playing office bowling or office basketball than actually doing work. Same usually with November, except no ones on vacation.
Bottom line is every accountant is going to complain about the long hours while he/she is actually working them but it's all worth it in the end. It also helps if your office has an espresso machine.
→ More replies24
→ More replies6
u/mango-roller Jan 11 '16
I wonder how much that either costs them or gains them each year, or if it pretty much evens out.
→ More replies5
30
u/SpartanSig Jan 11 '16
You'd be amazed what can be solved with a simple letter explaining what happened or why the IRS is wrong. Especially if it's a first time late filing, payment, etc, they will work with you.
That said, it's easier for a CPA to handle it too. 95% of the time we've received a similar notice for another client and know exactly what the state or IRS is looking for. Their letters are not always easy to decipher exactly WHY your return was changed.
8
Jan 11 '16
That's how a lot of the government agencies are. I work for another one and any disagreement, so long as it isn't criminal, can be easily discussed via letter/phone call.
→ More replies7
u/Rollingprobablecause Jan 11 '16
I got a letter in stating that I owe'd them 2500$ because I was paid $2500 from a contract I forgot to file.
I was like, WTF, I owe you for the taxes on the $2500, I don't owe you what I was paid.
→ More replies78
u/rioryan Jan 11 '16 edited Jan 11 '16
I guess they round the amount to nearest quarter? That's a lot of pennies, nickles, and dimes to just throw away
Edit: quarters
Edit: I'd initially wrote dollars and got corrected to quarters and now everybody is telling me dollars again
19
11
Jan 11 '16
They round to the nearest dollar. And it's not really that much of a waste... the dollars largely average out.
I live in Canada and my girlfriend works in retail. We got rid of pennies a little while ago so we always have to round to the nearest 5 cents. You'd think they'd cash out quite a bit off the mark fairly frequently... but no, she's very frequently within 5 cents of her daily total and rarely ever more than 15 cents off point.
→ More replies→ More replies17
21
→ More replies3
47
u/FieldsofBlue Jan 11 '16
I just laugh and tell them I don't have any money and they should know that if they saw my papers.
→ More replies
83
u/lostanotherfnpasswor Jan 11 '16
I wish I could convey to you all the anguish that was in my mother's voice as she sobbed to me about my father being arrested by the IRS and how these people were yelling at her on the phone to get them their money or they would drag him out of the house in handcuffs within an hour. Those calls traumatized her and my dad. There was genuine fear. It took me days to get her to fully believe that there was nothing wrong and that no one was coming for my dad. I hate those people. All I can think about is how many did they scare into paying. I hate them.
→ More replies21
u/oneseventwo Jan 11 '16
Same thing happened to my mom. My little sister and mom were crying rivers because she was going to be arrested if she didnt pay them. Fucking filthy pricks.
37
u/johnmomdoe Jan 11 '16
Cop here, if you receive a phone call from someone claiming to be a Deputy telling you that you owe fines for missing jury duty IT IS A SCAM.
If you miss jury duty you will receive a letter in the mail telling you when to come to jury duty. If you miss too many times you may receive a letter telling you to come to a court hearing.
6
u/mxzf Jan 11 '16
Yeah, I had a co-worker get hit by this a few weeks ago. They were very insistent that she get a pre-paid card and send them the info, despite the local police office being well within walking distance. It smelled fishy from the start, but it took a couple hours for her to be fully convinced that it was safe to just hang up on them.
→ More replies3
u/thePOWERSerg Jan 11 '16
What if you never receive the mail?
Multiple times I should say, do you still get in trouble?
8
u/johnmomdoe Jan 11 '16
You COULD get in trouble. A bench warrant could be issued for your arrest, a deputy could show up and knock on your door.
You aren't going to get a phone call asking for money.
66
u/dfdlt2440 Jan 11 '16
Just got an email claiming to be the IRS stating a file in my taxes has changed and please click a link to submit the new info
136
u/these-things-happen Jan 11 '16
44
→ More replies34
u/Misterandrist Jan 11 '16
I got an email like that that linked to a Google docs survey page asking for things like ssn.
Ridiculous.
22
u/these-things-happen Jan 11 '16
You would be stunned to know how many people fall for an email scam such as this.
→ More replies18
u/alexanderpas Jan 11 '16
5
u/Misterandrist Jan 11 '16
It came from a hacked university account; some student got their email broken in to. I jus reported it to Google, it was a while ago.
I felt bad for whosever account it was.
29
u/VladimirPootietang Jan 11 '16
I love when people with barely comprehensible Indian accents call claiming to be government organizations.
→ More replies
125
u/tastybutter Jan 11 '16
I have a crazy story.
So I come back from college and Steve has called. I ask my mom, who is Steve? He's from the IRS my mum says, says we owe him 12,000 $$. I tell my mom next time "Steve" calls let me talk to him. Steve calls of course although this time it's me on the line and not my mum; but I'm impersonating her, badly getting the job done.
Steve believes though.
I tell Steve in my womanly deep voice that I may just donate my money to charity seeing as the doctor says I may die soon due to fictitious Cancer. He tells me not to worry saying, That it would be in "your loved one's" best interest to rest your payment with us.
I tell him I shit my panties and to hold on.
I go to the restroom and flush the toilet multiple times; Steve stays on the line.
He asks me what I'm doing and I tell him the Olive Garden didn't sit right; He never called again.
→ More replies42
u/djjohsework Jan 11 '16
Man, I love fucking with these scammers. I don't ever get the IRS ones, but I get the microsoft ones all the time.
18
u/tastybutter Jan 11 '16
The crazy thing is how much information he had already gathered on my parents, which made him sound so convincing. It's scary what people can do with just a telephone call. The scariest part is that my mum was willing to give him the 12,000.
15
17
u/Dabugar Jan 11 '16
Those are the best, "We're from Microsoft, give us your information so we can log into your computer remotely and fix the issue".
Last time I got the call I said to the guy "I'm not interested in being scammed today thank you" and he literally said "Ok, goodbye".. he didn't even try and deny it!
27
u/djjohsework Jan 11 '16
We used to pretend we had no idea what we were doing with a computer, and then finally get him to log into a virtual copy of windows, where we would leave random files called " Bank info" and "passwords" that would just be .zip files full of cat pictures.
→ More replies7
u/RadarDash Jan 11 '16
My personal favorite. I legitamently work for Microsoft, and they attempted to call me claiming to fix an issue with my computer. I told them that I directly work for Microsoft and they noped out of there sooooo fast.
"Hello, I am from Microsoft calling to fix an issue blahblahblab."
"No you don't, I however actually work for Microsoft."
"Oh...okaythankyougoodbye."
Never heard from them again.
7
Jan 11 '16
I almost fell for the Microsoft scam some while ago. I just wish they could call again so I can give them a piece of my mind.
→ More replies
27
Jan 11 '16
[deleted]
24
u/aBoglehead Jan 11 '16
I highly recommend that those of us with elderly parents or family members share the word. The elderly are some of the most vulnerable when it comes to online or telephone scams.
→ More replies6
u/DJWalnut Jan 11 '16
it's believed that the parts of your brain associated with skepticism start braking down as you age. also, if an elderly person starts falling for scams where they didn't used to, take them in for a mental health checkup. it's an early sign of oncoming alzheimer's syndrome
→ More replies7
47
Jan 11 '16
Australian here, we get the same scams.
My response is always: "I can't verify your identity on the phone so let me ring the public number for the IRS/Tax/etc office and I'll have them direct me back to you."
→ More replies
19
Jan 11 '16
As someone who has still not gotten last year's return- You'll never speak to them even if you wanted to.
164
u/pwinkbear Jan 11 '16
My uncle had this happen to him. He got a call in the morning saying he owed $4,000 and was going to jail. They transferred him from "different" offices. They used the information he gave to one person to prove the next person was legitimate. My talked to him on the phone that morning and thought my uncle sounded off. He showed up to find my uncle at his store with $4,000 in cash waiting for "IRS" to pick it up. They called the cops and apparently this is very common.
32
u/sooner51882 Jan 11 '16
my brother's mother in law fell for this scam about 2 years ago. she is an Austrian living in the US (legally but i dont think shes a US citizen) who has adopted a couple kids and the guy on the phone threatened her that she would get deported if she didnt buy all these pre-paid cards and read him the numbers over the phone. he kept her on the phone for like 4 hours while she bought $10,000 worth of these cards (and was able to talk my brother and his wife, her daughter, into giving her some money to cover the "tax bill").
he kept telling her that she had a warrant out for her arrest and that the cops would pick her up as soon as the IRS gave them the go-ahead. well, she was driving to different gas stations and stores becuase i guess you can only buy so many of these cards at a time, and at one of the stores, she saw a police car and she walked up to him and asked if there was a warrant for her arrest. he checked and of course confirmed that there wasnt.
wiped her out of most of her savings. i hate these asshats. ive gotten calls from them before and i just sit on the line feeding them ridiculous information, wasting their time for a while until i get bored and then tell them theyre asshole scammers and they hang up on me.
→ More replies3
u/nicholieeee Jan 11 '16
Ugh. My grandmother fell victim to this a few months ago. The guy made her stay on the phone while she withdrew the money then drove 45 minutes to deposit it into a bank account.
My grandmother is pretty smart and was a bank teller for decades. But her husband suffered a stroke last year and she's been so consumed with taking care of him that she wanted to pay it ASAP instead of risking getting arrested (which the guy said she would).
I was so pissed when I found out about it.
→ More replies31
17
u/Skavis Jan 11 '16
I have a guy at work who got all crazy on the phone one time. He was sweating and frantic and yelling at times. I don't need to tell you this is incredibly unprofessional but he continued all the same. Finally I got up and said "what is going on?" He then decided to tell me the IRS is calling and he owed them money, He said if I don't pay them ... blah blah blah... ate the whole thing up. I was too late - he already gave them his SIN number and address. So after calming him down I convinced him to call whoever he needs to and report he was scammed... Best part of all this is... we live in Canada.
7
16
Jan 11 '16
This is not true!
I am from the IRS, and our records indicate that you do owe us $12,200 in back taxes. For the sake of expediency and to clear your records, we do take Reddit Gold.
42
u/Newspaper_Edtior Jan 11 '16
I'm a college student. My information, such as local address, student email, phone number, etc was pretty readily available online.
I got a call from "the IRS" about a month ago, saying I failed to file my student loans, scholarships, grants, etc on my form 1040 (never referring to it by "Income Tax Return," just as "Form 1040," potentially to create confusion among a relatively ignorant college student) and I owed them $1900, which I thought was weird because I had received much more than that in loans and such.
I kept telling them I would have to consult with my parents and whomever else, to which they responded "If you get off the phone we will take legal action." I responded with "OK" and hung up the phone. I contacted local police (the number they called me from was the number to a police station from elsewhere in the state - nice touch) to inform them about the call, but there wasn't much they could do.
I didn't fall for this trick, but a good friend of mine had a roommate who got the same call and ended up wiring about 2 grand to Texas. I then took all of my personal information offline right away.
Friendly reminder to college students, and everyone for that matter, that if you get a call from the IRS, it's most definitely not them; also be careful with what personal information you have readily available online in certain directories and wherever else that information may be posted.
→ More replies12
Jan 11 '16
[deleted]
→ More replies4
u/Rahbek23 Jan 11 '16
It really makes perfect sense as a student myself. I haven't got that much knowledge on how different taxes work, because I only just recently have gotten into any economic activities that actually require me to anything other than check they had the right numbers (basic stuff is completely automated where I live).
It's simply a case of haven't been there and done that just yet, for 90%+ of college students.
14
u/ThiefGarrett Jan 11 '16
I've has these pricks try this on me more than once. Of course I'm not going to be intimidated by a crappy computer voice claiming to be from "Internal Revenue Services". I mean they could at least get the name right. I was more insulted than anything else.
→ More replies20
u/antonivs Jan 11 '16
There's a theory that the scammers do that on purpose to screen out people with half a brain. If you're still talking to them after a couple of minutes, you're a prime target.
13
u/moonman114 Jan 11 '16
We get calls like this all the time, and my dad is smart enough to know the IRS never calls anyone to demand money.
Anyway, him and I were home one time and the phone rings, and the caller ID says it's our own home phone number. I guess these scammers can find a way to change the caller ID to your own number. But my dad knew it was sketchy and decided to answer to fuck with them.
They said he was facing some kind of lawsuit from the IRS and it all could be settled for a certain amount of money. The guys asked (in their broken English) what my dad's name was so they could pull up "his file". He said it was a foreign name and asked if he could spell it. So he spells P-H-U-K Y-U. The guy says "One moment please" and you can hear the confused and angry whispers. I'm losing it at this point but my dad keeps going.
A woman comes on and asks if that is really his real name, and my dad says yes. The whispers start once again, and the woman goes "Come on, be honest!" I had to leave the room, and my dad kept going and asked for more details about this lawsuit.
They hung up.
14
u/KoolAidkrusader Jan 11 '16 edited Jan 11 '16
IRS collection rep here.
This is correct we next to never call. We'll only call if weve already initiated some type of agree and need to get back to you, or if you get disconnected and we feeling like being a bro (were actually not supposed to call the taxpayer back in those scenarios). If you haven't responded to the 4 letters were required to send (last one being certified), we will usually try to take the money (levy bank accounts, wages, etc.) Only as a last resort if we can't take the money will we call.
Although that's just how most cases are treated, if your case seems important enough for the IRS to assign a 'Revenue Officer' (local agents that show up at your door), they can contact you at THEIR discretion, in person, phone, whatever.
But those are usually for business owners or people who owe big money like 250k+
Edit: oh we can't use email FYI, and can't take payment info over the phone, people LOVE that "so I waited on hold for an hour and you can't process a payment!?"
→ More replies
13
Jan 11 '16
I got this call a couple years ago shortly after I had moved to St. Louis. An Indian man with a very thick accent by the name of "Michael Roberts" informed me that I owed $3000 for the years of 2010/2011. I was a student for both of those years accruing no income whatsoever. He also told me that he had tracked the location of my Android (had an iPhone) and has officers on standby near my "house" to come arrest me. I lived on the tenth floor at the time, looked around for miles and saw no police on "standby", but the main reason he wanted me to pay was because he "loves me like his own daughter and doesn't want anything bad to happen to me. "
Roommate came in, asked who I was talking to, told her I was getting scammed by an Indian guy, he hung up immediately.
26
u/stupidsexymonkfish Jan 11 '16
The first time I got a call like this, it really shook me, because I had no idea such scams existed. I was highly suspicious and asked them to mail me proof of what I owed, but they threatened to send the cops if I didn't pay immediately. However, once they described the way they wanted me to pay (wiring money), it was pretty clear that it was a scam, and I hung up.
The next time I was called by a similar scam, I went off on this tirade about how I knew it was a scam, they were terrible people, they should take me off whatever list they have because I wasn't buying it, etc. The guy responds with "just block our fucking number" and hangs up. It was pretty satisfying to get one of them to break character.
→ More replies
77
u/chuckymcgee Jan 11 '16
To be fair though, the IRS can and will call you if it needs to. However it will have provided all the information in a previous notice. And they won't do anything silly like demand payment information over the phone.
15
u/alphagammabeta1548 Jan 11 '16
The IRS will always provide you with written notice via the US Postal Service of any money due or assets being seized. They basically never use the phone unless its you calling them
→ More replies8
u/junpark7667 Jan 11 '16
Actually, IRS prefers letters. Like letters to notify you that they will call you at certain time if need be. Unless you are already being audited, then I would say... good luck.
→ More replies→ More replies27
u/cr2224 Jan 11 '16
Last year I miscalculated my student loan payoff and still owed. The IRS simply took my refund rather than call or write explaining the situation. I guess my point is, I agree with you; they can and do whatever.
16
Jan 11 '16
They can reach right into your personal bank accounts & take money too. Had that happen to a friend who didn't pay her taxes for a few years.
→ More replies15
u/SpartanSig Jan 11 '16
Unfortunately these are the stories that make people paranoid about direct deposit refunds and it's obnoxious to deal with. Sure, they pulled money but in an extreme situation with someone breaking the law, not filing, and owing egregious amounts.
→ More replies
11
Jan 11 '16
The IRS will send a letter and wont demand payment. They offer payment plans.
5
u/arnaudh Jan 11 '16
They will demand payment, but it's up to the recipient to then contact the IRS (or go to their website) to make payments.
If you don't make payments, interests and fees will keep piling up (and well, if you make installment payments, interests will also add up, but it's usually a relatively low 3%).
→ More replies
10
u/iamtheowlman Jan 11 '16
Especially if you live in Canada.
The second guy was much better, said he was from the CRA.
14
u/Silver_Foxx Jan 11 '16
Haha something pretty similar happened to me once.
Got the call from "The IRS" about $1500 they claimed I owed them and went on and on about all the legal trpuble I'd be facing if I didn't send them the money right that moment.
Then I pointed put it was strange that I owed the American government taxes seeing as I'm a Canadian and his exact response was "Oh sorry, I meant to say I'm from the CRA".
I just laughed and hung up. Still waiting on that SWAT team he promised would be kicking in my front door. . .
21
u/KermittehFrog Jan 11 '16
My uncle has already received 2 of these kinds of calls already this year. They said they were going to be at his house in 20 minutes unless he paid the "IRS" $2500. He told them, "I have 3 dogs and over 10 guns, come and get me." I like my uncle.
→ More replies
19
Jan 11 '16
I actually just wanted to say thank you. About 5 minutes after initially reading this, I got a phone call from the "IRS".
Thank you. This messaged potentially saved me MONTHS of troubles. What absolute perfect timing.
9
Jan 11 '16
It wasnt a tax collector but a couple years back I had this company that called me several times.
They would start by trying to confirm my identity by asking for me to give them personal information. Thats when I hung up.
If you call me and ask me for personal details like that Im not gonna deal with you.
→ More replies
9
u/Karmadoneit Jan 11 '16
I got my call a couple of months ago. I yanked his idiot's chain for about 40 minutes. I told him I was desperate to clear this issue up. I had the $6,250 dollars in cash in my pocket and I just needed help finding the money order store. From the comfort of my living room I had this guy trying to help give me directions as if I was driving all over town.
Then I shouted "AH Wait - I see an IRS building and it's still 4:30. I'll go in there and pay." He about screamed at me not to do that. He told me about warrants that were out and the police were looking for me right now, and that if I went to the IRS they would arrest me.
I then asked him about his accent and what the weather was like in Nigeria. He laughed that off, but quickly the call devolved to a cussing match. Then he hung up.
39
u/tuuline Jan 11 '16
If you have a smartphone download called ID apps like Truecaller. They help identify (and block) these sorts of scams.
15
Jan 11 '16
How can an app detect Caller ID spoofing?
27
11
u/djjohsework Jan 11 '16
I know when I used the app it would show the caller ID and then also show how many people reported it as a scam or legitimate. It also allowed for blocking of numbers which was handy to have.
13
Jan 11 '16
That's kind of shooting yourself in the foot... sort of.
Some of those scammers spoof legitimate numbers, such as a bank's number. If the bank is trying to contact you for legitimate reasons, the app would block it just because people reported getting scam calls with the same caller ID.
→ More replies11
u/djjohsework Jan 11 '16
From what I remember, it didn't automatically block the numbers, it just told you that other users reported it as a scam and gave you the option to block it. I only ever blocked it if I answered it and was able to verify it being a scam. Having the other users report it helped me be skeptical before I even answered the phone.
→ More replies→ More replies4
u/Dinghy-KM Jan 11 '16
How can an app detect Caller ID spoofing?
It doesn't. How the app works is that it connects to a database where people report who has what phones number and if they're scammers or not. The app has two major shortfalls:
1) If a phone number is legitimate (say in this case, the main number for contacting the IRS) and someone spoofs their caller ID to be that number, the app will say it's legitimate. Similarly, if it's spoofed too often and people report that number as scammers, then legitimate IRS calls (which this thread shows do sometimes happen) would get flagged as scams as well.
2) It doesn't happen as much with number portability now but people do still change phone numbers. There's a chance you could get assigned a phone number that this app would already have flagged as a scammer. The only recourse to get this resolved would be the Contact Us form on their web site. Who knows how well that works.
Finally there's the whole privacy concerns of you're now sending all your contact information and all your calling information to another outside company. You can bet that they'll be glad to sell that information when their venture capital runs out and they need money.
→ More replies4
15
Jan 11 '16
One tip I've picked up is if you want to see if they are a scammer just tell them now is not a good time and ask for a call-back number, and as an extra measure their department, phone extension, and name. Not saying this is 100% fool proof, but I've never had a questionable call give me any of this information. Meanwhile someone who is really from the IRS or Microsoft would give this out freely.
→ More replies10
u/The_MAZZTer Jan 11 '16
Other posters are saying they'll threaten calling the police on you if you hang up, so that's likely to be their counter. Of course that in and of itself is a likely telltale sign it's not legit.
8
u/wormspeaker Jan 11 '16
These scammers have futurized themselves, I got a robo call with this scam last month.
6
u/cvr28 Jan 11 '16
Ugh this makes me so mad. My poor grandparents got a call while my Grampa was in the hospital and came home to a voicemail threatening a lawsuit. It scared them and this was the day my grandfather found out he had cancer in his throat. It took some convincing to ensure them this was a scam, but they were so stressed out. If I could reach through the phone and strangle the scammers I would have. Heartless.
6
Jan 11 '16 edited Apr 06 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/h-jay Jan 11 '16
Oh boy, you can wreak so much damage if you get a VOIP account, deposit $25 on it, and autodial from Asterisk... So much damage and all you need is your computer and a little bit of know-how. These scammers absolutely demand that kind of damage :)
4
u/pancake117 Jan 11 '16
I'd your ever not sure, just hang up and get the IRS's number from their site. Then call that yourself.
5
u/Xenc Jan 11 '16
UK: Similarly with letters and emails stating you're due an HMRC tax refund. Always check with HMRC directly.
8
u/YupYouMadAndDownvote Jan 11 '16
Surprised yall even answer these calls. I never answer if it isn't a number on my contacts.
→ More replies
4
u/felicaibaker Jan 11 '16
For the life of me I can never understand how people fall for these scams.
→ More replies
4
u/da_am Jan 11 '16
Got the same call. If you have some free time, call them back a few times and tie up their connection for a few minutes. I called them for an hour with 4 different phone numbers. So much foul language from them, it made me happy to know they were just a little upset.
→ More replies
9
u/ImFromTimBuktu Jan 11 '16
Can we get an AMA from someone who's worked for such a scam? Are they businesses? Where are they based out of? How do the "employees" feel about their "job"?
→ More replies13
7
u/forthatfeeling Jan 11 '16
Why is everyone so quick to pick up phone calls from numbers they don't know? Just let the person leave a message and then decide whether to interact.
It's the same way we don't personally answer every spam message that comes to our inbox. Just because someone is calling doesn't mean you have to answer. Same with your door or even in person. Just because some other person initiated communication doesn't mean it has to be returned.
11
u/PeEll Jan 11 '16
The IRS showed up to my house once because they said I was missing a quarterly business return. I checked with the local office and apparently it was legit.
9
Jan 11 '16
Wait, did they show up at your home to collect the payment? Or to notify you of nonpayment? I'm confused.
→ More replies→ More replies7
3
3
u/Throwyourtoothbrush Jan 11 '16
The thing to keep in mind with the elderly being at risk is that these scammers will call them dozens of times a day and harass them. It's not simple like falling for a phishing scam. It's predatory behavior and they'll relentlessly try many methods to get a foothold of communication or belief with their victims.
3
u/csudebate Jan 11 '16
I got the call. Said I owed $8,500. Had to pay immediately or the police were coming to seize all of my assets, put my kids in foster homes, and throw me in jail. I acted terrified for a while then got bored and told them I knew it was a scam; they hung up.
3
u/slipperylips Jan 11 '16
I love getting those calls. It is free entertainment for me. Here is the scenario:
Phone: ring,ring,ring Slipperlips: Hello Scammer: Yes, Good Afternoon Mr. Slipperylips, I am Mr. B. S. Artist JR calling from the IRS to inform you that we audited your last years tax return and unfortunately you owe us $8,124.52. I have to inform you that you are greatly in arrears and are in danger of being arrested, tried and imprisoned for tax fraud. The good news is that we can help you with this problem. If you cooperate,we have the authority to grant a one time exclusion to help you. Are you interested? Slipperylips: Of course, I don't want to get into trouble with the IRS. What do I need to do? Scammer: I am glad we can help you! Do you have a major credit card? Slipperylips: Yes, I do but how much will this cost me? Scammer: If you act today, we can reduce your tax liability to $3,000 even with no penalties or late charges. How does that sound? Slipperlips: Awesome. Let me get my Mastercard now. Be right back (go make sandwich, check email, come back 15 min later) I am having trouble finding it. Hold on again (look at porn, jerkoff 20 min later) Still looking, please (take a shower, get changed, 15 min more). Hold on please. (go to the convenience store, 20 min) Are you still there? Well, sorry I lied to you. I don't have a credit card and I think you are a scammer. Fuck off! Click.
3
Jan 11 '16
If the real tax man ever calls you, and it's happened to me, it will be about highly specific boxes/totals on your tax form, and they will reference the actual numbers. Plus, instead of demanding money, they'll tell you "don't worry, you won't owe any back taxes". Then a few weeks later you'll get a bill for $4k.
Source: put numbers in the wrong box. Got called. Lady was very nice. But the bill was an ass.
3
u/Chrisgpresents Jan 11 '16
I have a rule. I don't answer the phone unlessI recognize the number, or am expecting a call. Never have, never will.
3
u/GoGators2 Jan 12 '16 edited Jan 12 '16
Got this call last year but I'd heard about it so I fucked around with the guy. Said he was from the IRS and I owed thousands and must pay immediately or be arrested. He had a thick Indian accent and there was a lot of noise, chatter, etc. in the background, so I kept saying "What?", "Can you repeat that?", etc. Dude was getting more and more pissed, finally screamed at me, "What the fuck?!! Are you fucking deaf?!!!". I calmly said, "I'm sorry, I'm partially deaf. Can you please speak up?". He yelled, "Fuck you!!" and hung up on me, lol.
1.3k
u/daxelkurtz Jan 11 '16
I got this call in November. Saying I owed $16,000 for 2014.
1) In 2014 I was a student. My income that year was $0.
2) In November 2015 I was working as a tax lawyer in the state prosecutor's office.
It's basically the only time I've ever felt good about having gone to law school.