News Explainers. “How Trump Plans to Deport 4% of the U.S. Population.” Wall Street Journal, December 26, 2024.

[u/JustKidding456]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqPgAU1JRL4

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[u/JustKidding456]

2:39

TRUMP: “We’re starting with the criminals… and we got to do it… and then we’re starting with others…” NARRATOR: “Trump says ‘Dreamers,’ or people who entered the US illegally as children, might be an exception…”

I think it’s reasonable to deport undocumented persons who work in criminal gangs for a living. Removing three-fourths of undocumented criminal gang members from the country would be a great achievement.

Another achievement I think that would be acceptable to the political center would be to make it nearly impossible to either enter the country illegally or overstay a visa.

Prioritizing members of criminal gangs and prevention of illegal entries and visa overstays should be the main targets of a reasonable immigration policy.

[u/dogscangrowbeards → u/JustKidding456]

It has been the policy since 2014. He's not proposing anything new. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2014/11/21/deporting-felons-not-families

[u/RAATL → u/dogscangrowbeards]

Really shows how bad the DNC is at advertising and propagandizing the positive realities of their own policy. There are so many instances of this sort of thing, where the DNC actually implemented or followed a good policy at some point, but the right wing media machine is way louder. FWIW, I consider this more of a DNC failing than anything else.

[u/siberian → u/JustKidding456]

We also need to institute massive fines (like company ending) on employers that hire illegally. If you don't address the demand, the supply will never dry up.

[u/TheDemonicEmperor → u/siberian]

That doesn't address the demand, though. Fines aren't going to do anything when you can pay an illegal worker under the table. The cost still balances out.

The real answer here is abolishing the minimum wage. Then the demand for a worker who can legally work for less than minimum wage completely evaporates.

But, of course, nobody wants to hear that answer. They just want to blame "the billionaires!"

[u/LedZeppelin82 → u/TheDemonicEmperor]

Wouldn’t there still he demand for workers who will work for less than a wage Americans would accept? Just because the official minimum wage is gone doesn’t mean there isn’t a soft minimum. Pay that seems awful to most Americans may still seem like a pretty good deal to people from poorer countries.

[u/TheDemonicEmperor → u/LedZeppelin82]

Wouldn’t there still he demand for workers who will work for less than a wage Americans would accept? Just because the official minimum wage is gone doesn’t mean there isn’t a soft minimum.

And what data are you showing that Americans would not accept wages for less?

You don't have that data because we haven't been able to legally hire Americans for less for 100 years.

[u/siberian → u/TheDemonicEmperor]

They get paid under the table today, but there are just no penalties. A few high-profile business bankruptcies because of an illegal immigrant on the payroll will dissuade most from breaking that law.

It doesn't have to be perfect.

This, like energy, is an 'all solutions must be brought online' situation. Attack employers, migrants, and rethink how we compensate people. All should happen, aggressively.

[u/TheDemonicEmperor → u/siberian]

This, like energy, is an 'all solutions must be brought online' situation. Attack employers, migrants, and rethink how we compensate people. All should happen, aggressively.

Like energy, there's only one real solution and a bunch of feel-good nonsense that doesn't actually solve anything.

Your anti-business stance does nothing except drive companies away from the US. Congrats, you just killed our economy.

Again, the answer is simple: no minimum wage, no incentive for companies to hire for less than minimum wage because there is none.

Just because you don't like that answer doesn't mean it's not the right one. You and your friends can downvote all you want, but your solutions are economically illiterate and do not even address the issue.

[u/Leskral → u/TheDemonicEmperor]

Again, the answer is simple: no minimum wage, no incentive for companies to hire for less than minimum wage because there is none.

Aren't you doing the same thing as him? Assuming that solution will actually work?

These jobs still exist, as far as I know Americans still don't want these jobs.

[u/TheDemonicEmperor → u/Leskral]

as far as I know Americans still don't want these jobs

Already answered above, because you guys only have one poor talking point:

And what data are you showing that Americans would not accept wages for less?

You don't have that data because we haven't been able to legally hire Americans for less for 100 years.

Where's the data besides your own imagination?

[u/Leskral → u/TheDemonicEmperor]

Sure, we don't. But if they don't want them now, why would they want them when there's no minimum wage?

I'm not suggesting we fine companies into bankruptcy but I don't think abolishing the minimum wage will be the panacea you think it is.

[u/TheDemonicEmperor → u/Leskral]

But if they don't want them now, why would they want them when there's no minimum wage?

Who says they don't want them now? They're not allowed to have them.

[u/RAATL → u/JustKidding456]

I don't know if there is any easy way to catch people who overstay a visa without implementing onerous surveillance infrastructure, but I'd like to be enlightened. My understanding is that stopping illegal entrants at the border is extremely difficult as well and things like a border wall simply cannot stop a determined enough person.

I agree that the best way to go about this, as others said, is to put the onus on businesses to prove they aren't illegally employing people. Its quite easy to not do and even if it is somewhat hard to catch every instance of it, I think citizens would be motivated to report it when they see it, and its one of those things where imposing fines on businesses are likely to dissuade them

[u/Bullet_Jesus → u/RAATL]

My understanding is that stopping illegal entrants at the border is extremely difficult

Most migrants at the border are either caught or deliberately surrender to CBP. It's not really hard but increasing enforcement does have diminishing returns.

to put the onus on businesses to prove they aren't illegally employing people

Don't employers over a certain size have to verify the right to work of anyone they employ? Isn't the issue that migrants get fake documentation and there is no incentive or means for a business to do any diligence on that front?

[u/RAATL → u/Bullet_Jesus]

Don't employers over a certain size have to verify the right to work of anyone they employ? Isn't the issue that migrants get fake documentation and there is no incentive or means for a business to do any diligence on that front?

Indeed, and this is a version of what I mean by putting the onus on businesses.

[u/ArbitraryOrder → u/JustKidding456]

Another achievement I think that would be acceptable to the political center would be to make it nearly impossible to either enter the country illegally or overstay a visa.

This can only happen if visa renewals are not a burdensome nightmare as they are now, which is why so many overstays happen at the moment

[u/TheDemonicEmperor → u/JustKidding456]

I think it’s reasonable to deport undocumented persons who work in criminal gangs for a living. Removing three-fourths of undocumented criminal gang members from the country would be a great achievement.

Correct. That's basically everything that Congressional leadership is promising as well. I really can't see any objection at all to deporting a violent criminal, but apparently that's a point of contention here.

[u/owdee00]

He should do us a favor and start with the latinos that worked for him