Semi-Weekly Discussion Thread - November 11, 2024

[u/tuesday_mod]

INTRODUCTION

/r/tuesday is a political discussion sub for the right side of the political spectrum - from the center to the traditional/standard right (but not alt-right!) However, we're going for a big tent approach and welcome anyone with nuanced and non-standard views. We encourage dissents and discourse as long as it is accompanied with facts and evidence and is done in good faith and in a polite and respectful manner.

PURPOSE OF THE DISCUSSION THREAD

Like in r/neoliberal and r/neoconnwo, you can talk about anything you want in the Discussion Thread. So, socialize with other people, talk about politics and conservatism, tell us about your day, shitpost or literally anything under the sun. In the DT, rules such as "stay on topic" and "no Shitposting/Memes/Politician-focused comments" don't apply.

It is my hope that we can foster a sense of community through the Discussion Thread.

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The list of previous effort posts can be found here

Previous Discussion Thread

[u/Viper_ACR]

Guys, I think the isolationists/doves/contrarians are winning.

Marco Rubio isn't enough to stop the stupidity from Gabbard.

The Dems truly failed to make the case for American involvement in the world. The libertarians are hopeless. The Republicans lost the trust of everyone due to Iraq/AFG.

And Ukraine, Taiwan, Poland, Finland, Japan, SK, and the Middle East will suffer the consequences.

What can we do to reverse this?

[u/aelfwine_widlast → u/Viper_ACR]

The American electorate failed to heed warnings that were given openly, loudly, and often.

If their dislike for the messenger or the messenger's tone made them ignore said warnings, tough.

The people have made their choice. Let them start taking some responsibility for it.

[u/Viper_ACR → u/aelfwine_widlast]

How effective were those warnings?

[u/spaceqwests → u/Viper_ACR]

Actually have a goal for Ukraine would be a good start,

We do not and have never had one. Atleast not one that comports with the Biden admin’s behavior. We both want Russia out completely but also want to limit how Ukraine can use weapons? Really?

No kidding people are skeptical. It would be helpful to have an actual end goal we are working toward that we can articulate.

[u/Viper_ACR → u/spaceqwests]

The goal should be taking back Donbass and Crimea.

But fair point on the Biden admin mismanaging aid efforts with the restrictions on shooting Russian targets inside of Russia.

[u/WeaknessOne9646 → u/Viper_ACR]

I think you're discounting Waltz

At least for China I truly believe he will be around a similar level of hawk

Ukraine is difficult. I support them 100% but there's a lot of information I don't really have access too that our intel services do: what the situation on the battlefield is, the internal precariousness/war weariness or lack thereof within Russia, the will of the Ukrainian population to commit fully to this fight after two years versus cut their losses, etc

As long as they are willing to defend their land and there is a path to victory, I am willing to support them but I can imagine a situation where it's just not there and not being reflected in public statements for morale. In that case negotiation may indeed be an option along with preparation to prevent further aggression in advance (again I DO NOT support cutting them loose completely under any circumstances and even giving up on reclaiming territory is a last resort but I also don't have the full picture). I truly can’t imagine him pull out of NATO with any picks let alone with some major traditionalists. He will probably force an increase in military budget and it will be done in a messy irreverent way but ultimately a good thing IMO

Middle East is trickier because I am personally a bit more isolationist there and think it wouldn't be a bad thing if Israel was reigned in. At this point they have lost public support in pretty much the whole world outside the US, India and some of central/Eastern Europe and I think the true peril to their future existence is not whatever is left of Hamas. There are only so many resources and I think Europe and Asia are higher priority than letting Israel drag our reputation even further into the mud. Wouldn't hate making some of the Muslim and Arab voters Trump reached out to in this cycle Republicans either with some kind of peace to reward their votes (probably not with the peace they had in mind but nonetheless some kind of end to the wars)

Trump's admin picks don't really give me much confidence on the last point, but I think a lot of the reason is that the Republican foreign policy wing of Trumpism just does not have the numbers of qualified individuals that the neocon and neocon minded wing does. It is too new and building that up in Washington takes time

[u/Viper_ACR → u/WeaknessOne9646]

Fair points, agreed on pressuring Israel more.

[u/No12345678901 → u/Viper_ACR]

Tulsi Gabbard has been the only attempted appointment friendly to the isolationists. She probably won't get approved.

[u/Viper_ACR → u/No12345678901]

I'm hoping this is the case.

[u/JustKidding456 → u/Viper_ACR]

Guys, I think the isolationists/doves/contrarians are winning.

Marco Rubio isn't enough to stop the stupidity from Gabbard.

The Dems truly failed to make the case for American involvement in the world. The libertarians are hopeless. The Republicans lost the trust of everyone due to Iraq/AFG.

And Ukraine, Taiwan, Poland, Finland, Japan, SK, and the Middle East will suffer the consequences.

What can we do to reverse this?

A concept of a plan. Might not be very nice or plausible, but might be needed.

Pacific Theatre: Japan reforms Article 9 to permit the use of belligerency for the security of liberal principles and their associated human rights. Japan, ROK (South Korea), and ROC (Taiwan) form an East Asian Treaty Organization and commit to military spending 3.5% of their GDP minimum. Universal conscription of all men and women for all three countries may be required.

European Theatre: All NATO countries commit to military spending 3.5% of GDP minimum, and universal conscription of all men and women may be required.

I don't know about the Middle East, they might try to pursue closer ties or detente with the Ayatollah regime in Iran. Would be really challenging for Israel to maintain the survival of its state.