r/toronto • u/dt_vibe Scarborough Junction • Jan 09 '16
Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) Scam still going on! Beware the Scammer is very knowledgeable and convincing. Discussion
So today I'm at home and my s/o calls me and I pick up. She's sounds all scared and frantic, so I'm waiting to hear the worst. She goes on to tell me that some "officer" from the CRA called her house line and left a message similar to this(who I believe is the same guy). She calls the number from her cell phone and tells me that the officer said that she didn't disclose her taxes from 2009 and 2011(She was a student in HS) and now owes an amount of $1800. Supposedly she had been talking to this officer for 10 minutes and he was threatening to send "CRA WARRANT OFFICERS" out for her arrest. She called me to see if I could fix this, as he waited on the other line.
I immediately knew it was a scam, and as she connected me to him I asked him what the fuck he wanted and why he was intimidating my woman. He told me to watch my mouth, and that I was talking to a CRA OFFICER and that he could arrest me. I asked him for his badge number and address to which he quickly gave me a 5 digit number and an address in Ottawa near Laurier Street. Now the thing here is that during my conversation with him, his English even thou it was a little broken was very good, and he was throwing around big words, to which even I was thinking ....is this for real? I asked him what the arrest was for, and he told me back taxes and that he was going to now send '3 LADY WARRANT OFFICERS' to her address. I asked him what the address was, to which he gave a completely wrong address. I told him that the CRA doesn't have warrant officers, and now he knew that he couldn't trick me. What dose he decide to do now? "I am now closing this resolution and sending officers now for the arrest....and I will Fuck your daughter".....Hangsup
Now my girl isn't stupid, she graduated university and is becoming a teacher, heck she is way smarter than me. She had really believed this guy, was panicking and was trying to make the funds available to this guy. I can only imagine if I hadn't been there, or if this was my mother or father who would have dashed to get their credit cards. According to this Toronto Star article, this guy has milked in over $800,000. The difference between him and the duck cleaners is that he actually does is homework and at least tries to be knowledgeable about what he is doing.
So watch out guys, this was yesterday January 9th/16. The more we spread this, the more people will know.
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u/Charwinger21 Jan 09 '16
Accountant here. The CRA will pretty much never call you.
They'll send you mail. Letters. Even email if you sign up with them (although they try to limit what they send through email and they almost never send links).
They will typically not call you though (well, unless you call their helpdesk about a ruling on a particular manner and request a callback).
They want a record of everything they say and do.
Keep in mind though, that letters claiming to be from the CRA can still be scams. Don't just blindly trust someone because they claim to be from the CRA. If you're worried, call in. If something looks fishy, call in. If you're not 100% sure, call in.
If someone claims to be from the CRA, thank them for informing you of the issue, and then call the CRA itself to verify that they were actually an employee/that whatever the issue was is actually an issue.
Do not give out personal information to someone who contacted you.
If you want to call, a lot of people here would probably need the Individual income tax and trust enquiries line (1-800-959-8281), but there are also a couple other lines like the Businesses and self-employed individuals line (1-800-959-5525).
Don't be afraid to call. The phone support staff are lovely people. I deal with them constantly and they always do a fabulous job.
edit: Also, the CRA doesn't really send threats. They just kinda go "You owe this much. If you think we are wrong, submit your objection within one year after the date of the return’s filing deadline or 90 days after the day we sent the notice of assessment (whichever comes later)."
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u/ipeefreeli Jan 09 '16
From what I've seen at my job, there's literally no reason for them to call and threaten anyways since they can easily freeze your bank account.
I've had a lot of customers call in and complain that they can't access their money, but it's always because they owe the CRA money.
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u/neowie Fully Vaccinated! Jan 09 '16 edited Jan 09 '16
CRA will also call you to let you know if you submitted something incorrectly with your taxes that needs to be returned. A number of years ago, I sent in the ttc metro passes, I got a call a couple of weeks later from the processing agent who let me know that she was returning them to me since CRA didn't need them, and advised that I hold on to them in case I'm audited in the next 7 years. Very friendly agent, not pushy, scary. Recommended a cafe to visit in Sudbury (I was going to Sudbury the following week and joked that I could pick up the passes while I was there).
Edit: an official letter came with the returned materials. But the agent was confirming that my address was correct before sending them back.
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Jan 09 '16 edited May 25 '17
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u/neowie Fully Vaccinated! Jan 09 '16
I bought them from my employer as needed, so I didn't receive a receipt from the ttc.
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u/palanski Riverdale Jan 11 '16
What was the cafe in Sudbury?
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u/neowie Fully Vaccinated! Jan 11 '16
I don't remember, it was back in 2007. Maybe willow something?
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u/yoordoengitrong Jan 09 '16
Don't ever give out your personal info to someone who contacted you. Not on the phone, not at your door, not online. Take their name and any info they are willing to give you, then go ahead and Google them. Google the company or organization they claim to be from to find a way to contact them, then let them know you were contacted by someone claiming to work for them. Give them the info from the original contact and go from there.
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u/emergdoc Jan 09 '16 edited Jan 09 '16
I was called by the CRA. They wanted to confirm it was me on the phone and asked for my SIN. I said I'm not going to give my SIN unless I know it's really the CRA.
So I asked them what number I could call them back at.
I then hung up, called the CRA number I found on the internets and asked if this was a real CRA number. They said it was. So I called the number and cleared up the issue.
I never received a letter from the CRA about this issue.
Edit: Of course the real CRA never threatened me with anything. In fact, they just wanted to know why I wasn't sending them my usual quarterly installments. The answer was, my financial structure had changed. I explained why and that was the end of it.
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u/FairlyOddParents Jan 09 '16
strange for them to ask for you sin over the phone
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u/emergdoc Jan 09 '16
They said they wanted to confirm that they were talking to the right guy.
When I phoned back, I believe I had to give it, though my memory is a bit foggy on that one.6
u/superdirt Jan 09 '16
I've been called multiple times by the cra, but each time there has been an official letter sent prior backing up the issue they're contacting me about.
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Jan 09 '16
" Also, the CRA doesn't really send threats. They just kinda go "You owe this much. If you think we are wrong, submit your objection within one year after the date of the return’s filing deadline or 90 days after the day we sent the notice of assessment (whichever comes later)."
But think of what CRA Warrant Officers would look like! All...taxey and accountanty with their trusty calculator batons!
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u/cbbrowne Agincourt Jan 09 '16
Should so head to Warhammer 40k for this... It's a thing... http://elementgames.co.uk/images/products/9504/8818-tax-collector-med.jpg
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Jan 09 '16
The CRA does call people who are back on their taxes, or have a history. Those people are even assigned an officer who handles multiple "accounts". So this call, technically, is quite a possibility and this is why scammers use it.
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u/Charwinger21 Jan 09 '16
The CRA does call people who are back on their taxes, or have a history. Those people are even assigned an officer who handles multiple "accounts". So this call, technically, is quite a possibility and this is why scammers use it.
Yep. In general they avoid calling though.
Regardless, even if an actual CRA employee calls, just thank them for the information (and potentially tell them that you would like to call CRA directly to verify).
The most important thing to take from this is "Don't give out personal information to someone who contacted you".
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Jan 09 '16
Oh ya, nowadays you need to be critical of anyone asking for your information. Back when I worked at B4, I always told clients to thank the CRA caller for the info and to call the CRA number that's on their website to verify.
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u/TiredRightNowALot Bayview Village Jan 09 '16
Not to jump on the bandwagon here and say that they will call, but I do want people to know that there's a chance they will. I was called because my accountant was making false claims under people's income taxes to keep them coming back (bigger returns, false promises).
I'd been using her for about 10 years when I got the call and the CRA officer told me a lot of information as I had requested (I typically start off pessimistic of anyone calling me).
I ended up giving a statement for their criminal investigation and then subsequently getting a bill for around $5,000 which I paid promptly so as to get it over and done with. From what I understood, she was trying to build her business and was telling people that she'd get them bigger returns than anyone else. My returns were smaller than others using the same person and I never had reason to doubt her.
I just got lazy over time and stopped checking the assessments, etc. My own fault.
Anyways, point is that they MIGHT call although it is rare. I paid via my bank to their correct account so I'm sure mine was legit.
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u/ekdaemon Jan 09 '16
Accountant here. The CRA will pretty much never call you.
Considering the circumstances, they should publicise that.
Include a huge one page infographic with the next standard mailing to people - with four panels saying "we'll never do these things - if someone claims to be us doing these things, it's fraud".
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u/Charwinger21 Jan 09 '16
Considering the circumstances, they should publicise that.
Include a huge one page infographic with the next standard mailing to people - with four panels saying "we'll never do these things - if someone claims to be us doing these things, it's fraud".
They do. I linked to their permanent one, and they put out bulletins every couple months.
The problem is that it is hard to get that information to people. They work with newspapers and other media outlets to get the information out, but unfortunately that isn't enough.
Keep in mind, while they almost never call, they do call occasionally.
They can't outright say "we won't call", because every once in a while they do.
What they can do is let people know that you should never give out personal information to someone that contacted you.
The CRA explicitly says that "The CRA will not do the following: send email with a link and ask you to divulge personal or financial information".
If someone calls/emails/writes/etc. saying that the CRA has something that they need to discuss with you, just thank them for the information (or don't respond if it is an email/letter/etc.), and message the CRA directly to confirm it.
Oh, and don't wait for the last minute. Deal with any actual issues as early as possible. You don't want your notice of objection to miss the deadline because mailing it took too long (same deal with filing your taxes).
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u/StayClassynet Jan 09 '16
This post needs more upvotes - great post.
If you're not 100% sure, call in.
Best advice one could have, especially with tax season basically upon us.
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Jan 09 '16
I've been called by the CRA before. But it was for my business account, regarding why I hadn't filed my GST/HST return yet.
And no, I don't own a "business" in a traditional sense, but I worked a contract job at a company and they always ask all their contractors to incorporate.
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u/7xwonder Jan 09 '16
CRA employees are administrative and not peace officers. CRA has no badges or "warrant officers". They can subject auto deductions from your pay if you're in arrears, but "arrests" don't happen unless fraud is identified, and even then the arrest isn't made by CRA. It's made by a police force that is involved in the investigation, alongside CRA.
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u/yegtoyyz Jan 09 '16
this.
its the government. if they want your money they will most definitely get it.
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Jan 09 '16
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u/Jmpaul Jan 09 '16
Duct cleaning only needs to happen for a few specific reasons.
10000 cats/dogs/ heavily shedding people. in a house.
Said tenants do not change furnace filters on time.
Doing home renos that create a lot of debris. Drywall sanding, any sort of sanding really. (Reason for dust collector systems)
High traffic area close to your house. Road dust, salt, anything vehicles can knock into the air can be pulled into your house
If you don't have any Rugs in your house (as they trap dust) I'm sure a few more exist but those are off the top of my head.
I'm an hvac dude.
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Jan 09 '16
I personally like to ponder what the "tax police" uniforms might look like. ;)
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u/henriettabazoom Jan 09 '16
Khakis
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u/cbbrowne Agincourt Jan 09 '16
See Warhammer 40k... http://elementgames.co.uk/images/products/9504/8818-tax-collector-med.jpg
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Jan 09 '16
Heh. I was thinking more like, 27 pieces of flair and a red stapler.
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u/cbbrowne Agincourt Jan 10 '16
I was kind of hoping for a green visor, wacky looking powered armor, and some kind of electrified spear with a four function calculator on the side, but when I searched for a tax collector this is what I found...
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Jan 09 '16
This has happened to a couple people I know. They actually went as far as getting the money order before going to the police to check into it. One actually had these scammers call her while she was on the police station so she just past the phone to the officer and that was the end of her calls.
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u/ipeefreeli Jan 09 '16
If you owed the CRA money, and they really wanted it, they wouldn't waste time calling you and threatening you. They would just freeze your assets.
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u/CartoonJustice Jan 09 '16
Whats there number if say we wanted to inconvenience them?
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u/Charwinger21 Jan 09 '16
A lot of the time people running scams like this will spoof their phone number so that people won't be able to report them as easily.
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u/gettingrad Jan 09 '16
you can tell it's fake when he said CRA officers were going to arrest you. outside of maybe Border Services, only the police can arrest people. Even CSIS don't have arresting powers. a CSIS employee can't personally arrest someone and they have to tell the police who to arrest.
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u/stompinstinker Jan 09 '16
I have been called by the CRA before for not paying my HST on-time. You don’t get some angry people using big words, but a regular dude reminding you quite politely that you can simply go to your bank and they will help you.
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u/twothirtynine Jan 09 '16
This happened to me! After I started calling him out on the bullshit, he got a little hostile so I started laughing at him. He then started screaming "I love you" repeatedly until I hung up the phone. Strangest phone call of my life.
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Jan 09 '16
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u/AnarchyKitty Jane and Finch Jan 09 '16
The CRA sends letters, they don't call
andto threaten people. Obvious scam.Fixed.
They will threaten send people in funny costumes to your house, and if they resist arrest they will shoot you.
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u/The_Paul_Alves Little Portugal Jan 09 '16
Same happened to my mother. Rude Indian fellow threatening to put her in jail.
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u/cbbrowne Agincourt Jan 09 '16
FYI, there is a Laurier Avenue, but not a Laurier Street. Lots of federal buildings on Laurier Avenue. That points at BS to me...
I'd ask them to send me a summons to Tax Court. Obscure, but a thing, and relevant.
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Jan 09 '16
Same thing happened to my parents who are in their 70's. An officer left a message on their answering machine and because someone backed into my dads car maybe a week or two before he received the phone call he thought it had something to do with his that.They also said not to drive or else he'll be arrested. My dad is an immigrant speaks English well, worked with people all his life ran a business I never thought in a million years he'd fall for such a scam. They knew his address and wanted him to meet them at a bank machine! Asked him to use his cell phone. My mom who doesn't speak English that well who is retired grabbed the phone and told them off, my dad was so scared he honestly thought he was going to go to jail.... They asked for $3500 cash! Maybe a week later I get a phone call and it was an Indian man sounded like telemarketers in the background and I wanted to play along but he disconnected once I questioned him. I know it's hard to believe that people can fall for something like this but my dad almost did, and when my mom called me to tell me what happened it sounded as if someone died for how upset it made them. From now on I told my parents not to call back anyone who leaves a message that they're not familiar with and to call me and I will deal with it.
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u/Yevad Jan 09 '16
"Now my girl isn't stupid, she graduated university and is becoming a teacher, heck she is way smarter than me. She had really believed this guy, was panicking and was trying to make the funds available to this guy."
I have some bad news for you....
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u/ThingsThatMakeMeMad Jan 09 '16
You'd be surprised. My sister has the highest cGPA in her program and she fell for one of those door-to-door carbon monoxide leak people 2 days ago. Good thing I was behind her listening in on it and told the guy to get lost.
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Jan 09 '16
lol.
GPA is honestly not the same as being smart.
I know it's circlejerky, but just because you get good grades in school doesn't mean you're any smarter than a doorknob
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u/ThingsThatMakeMeMad Jan 09 '16
You can be smart and bad grades. Tons of lazy college kids do it .
You cant be dumb and get great grades in many many university programs. I'm in computer science and I know quite a few people who study 5-6 hours outside of class every day and still are barely getting by.
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Jan 09 '16
You cant be dumb and get great grades in many many university programs
Sure, but you can be dumb and get great grades in many programs too
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u/Mun-Mun Jan 11 '16
Sure you can, If you're dumb and hard working you can get good grades. Maybe she is book smart but not common sense/streetsmart
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u/Yevad Jan 09 '16
I guess there are different levels of intelligence, I really don't believe that a high GPA is a for sure sign of how smart you are, it's more of an indicator of your ability to get good grades which is a combination of keeping your professors happy, memorizing answers and effort put in. I also have a very high cumulative GPA but I know for sure that there are students who are smarter than me with much lower GPAs because they are not trying as hard.
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u/vinng86 Jan 09 '16
This is where D&D makes the distinction between Intelligence and Wisdom. She probably had high intelligence but her wisdom was lacking.
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u/Yevad Jan 09 '16
Ahh, makes sense
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u/megzzz14 Jan 10 '16
So how did this topic switch from a cra scam to a girls intelligence. Some people just think they are the smartest cookies on here. They'll only know until they are faced with a similar situation.
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u/siamthailand Jan 09 '16
Here's an LPT I give to everyone who ever receives a call from an agency, bank, cable company, what have you. Anything that has anything to do with money, or personal information.
Tell them, you'll call them back on a number listed on their website. They may give an extension so you reach the right person.
If that person's not interested, hang up and tell them to fuck off.
I have done this my entire life, and never had one person say no to this. If it's a legit person, he will understand why you're doing this.
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u/Msdivz Jan 09 '16
My parents got completely duped by these people. They were on the phone with them for almost an hour. They knew a lot.
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u/trancematik Jan 09 '16
Can this be reported to CAFC?
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u/dt_vibe Scarborough Junction Jan 09 '16
Yes, I got her to report it to the CAFC, and they recommended her to report it to Toronto Police as well which she did.
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Jan 09 '16
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Jan 09 '16
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u/uymai Jan 09 '16
I'm in the camp of playing along in order to waste their time and lower the chances of them calling someone who believes them
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u/AnarchyKitty Jane and Finch Jan 09 '16
My time's too valuable for merely wasting our time. If you want to do that strategy, get details and send to police/crimestopers.
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u/uymai Jan 09 '16
If your time's too valuable to protect seniors, then you could always just put them on hold
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u/AnarchyKitty Jane and Finch Jan 09 '16
Lol, that works too. Or I could transfer them to my financial manager.
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Jan 09 '16 edited Jan 09 '16
Just bear in mind the calling TE number is probably spoofed. Don't try and go superhero and harass an innocent phone-owner by calling back.
For some reason my number has appeared as the calling number in different spoofs who use (apparently) New Zealand numbers whose 10 last digits are the same as mine (as in 647-ccc-cccc).
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u/uymai Jan 09 '16
I'd generalize to "don't bother calling back numbers you don't recognize , that didn't leave a message".. You'll almost never accomplish what you want
Every now and then, they spoof my number and some random person calls it back and gets me.. I normally try and teach them about spoofing whenever that happens, but normally that's people who share the first 6 digits of my phone number-- are you seeing a different pattern?
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Jan 10 '16
Same here. The 647 area code and the first three digits after that. I guess this is to give an impression of locality, but most younger folks, and surely anybody who has cut their landline would not fall for that.
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u/yoordoengitrong Jan 09 '16
Yeah depending on how busy I was I might play along and act concerned for a couple of minutes then say "just kidding bro, this is obviously a scam good luck with your next victim"
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u/jeezy-chreezy Jan 09 '16
I think most intelligent people would realize it's a scam at "cra warrant officer." I'm just picturing accountants with guns.
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u/Yevad Jan 09 '16
You got down voted quite a bit but I agree with you, she's not smart at all if she was falling for a scam like that.
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u/bltn_eh Jan 09 '16
" he actually does his homework and at least tries to be knowledgeable about what he is doing". How so?
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u/loyalone Jan 09 '16
Allow me to do a tl;dr for you : Call his bluff - the CRA doesn't have warrant officers.
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Jan 09 '16
Don't even answer it. If you do end up answering, tell them you're busy then hang up and block the number.
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u/IS-FLexus Jan 10 '16
The CRA does not have to chase you, they simply put holds on every bank account you have. Until you pay them back.
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u/ABigAmount Broadview North Jan 09 '16
CRA would never behave this way, but if you're ever in doubt, ask to speak to someone who can speak French, which the real CRA would do for you in a heartbeat.