r/neoliberal • u/Unusual-State1827 • 6d ago
Nearly half of GOP voters want military to put immigrants in camps News (US)
https://www.axios.com/2024/12/30/gop-voters-support-military-immigrants-camps278
u/12hphlieger Daron Acemoglu 6d ago
Yeah, this isn’t surprising. Some of the rhetoric about immigrants from even “normal” GOP voters is pretty dehumanizing. My MIL is one of those “We just all need to be nicer to each other” conservatives, but was saying some Nazi-esque things about immigrants that basically the whole room agreed with over Christmas. My wife and I were pretty shook.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português 6d ago
Even the H1B debate is an example. The literal qualified legal immigrants who went through insane hurdles for work are considered in the conversation as borderline work animals whose well being is completely irrelevant and the only analysis is whether they cost one grape or add one grape to the meals of a random American (while ignoring that in terms of basic econ the H1B visa is for the benefit of everyone)
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u/12hphlieger Daron Acemoglu 6d ago
Yep, I know. The funnest thing about all of this is they live in a very rural community in Western KS. They have no doctors. None of the area hospitals do. It’s a huge a problem. A problem that could be lessened with skilled immigration through H1B or some other program. Some of these people are fine with this, because having no doctor is better than a brown doctor.
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u/WAGRAMWAGRAM 6d ago
Some of these people are fine with this, because having no doctor is better than a brown doctor.
It's a quack science anyways, I saw it on Facebook
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u/Caberes 6d ago
I hear you but you also have to acknowledge that H1Bs aren't chained to there work place and they aren't here for some personal humanitarian goal. They are here to make money, and they can switch jobs as long as they can find a new sponsor. Some entry level IT person is probably stuck with their initial sponsor, but an experienced doctor is going to have a decent amount of freedom to relocate to higher paying metro.
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u/flakAttack510 Trump 6d ago
they can switch jobs as long as they can find a new sponsor
And their sponsor wins the H-1B lottery. That means they only have a 25% chance per year of their job change actually being allowed. If an H-1B worker wants to change jobs, they essentially have to restart the entire process over again.
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u/Caberes 6d ago
You got a source on that? I’m like 90% sure that once you’re in you have like 6 years to bounce around assuming everyone does there paperwork right
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u/flakAttack510 Trump 6d ago
An H-1B transfer requires a new petition that has to go through the full process again. It also resets your 6 years.
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u/noxx1234567 5d ago
It's impossible to be a doctor on H1B due to AMA regulations , the very few that make it essentially start over with tests & residency
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u/dolphins3 NATO 5d ago
I remember reading an article about healthcare deserts a while back that I wish I'd saved, and one of the doctors interviewed was an Indian nephrologist (I think?) who came to the US through some program to recruit doctors for healthcare deserts, and at the time of publication he was shutting down his practice and returning to India because he was sick of the 90%+ white community treating him and his family like shit.
The article went on to interview all the community members who were all surprised Pikachu and distraught that instead of having their very serious health problems treated locally they would have to choose between 1.) dying a miserable death 2.) making at least a two day trip to the big city with a total of 12 hours of driving and an overnight hotel stay to see the next nearest specialist taking patients.
Seems like they should have been kissing the ground this doctor and his family walked on but apparently that was too hard.
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u/RetardevoirDullade 6d ago
while ignoring that in terms of basic econ the H1B visa is for the benefit of everyone
To be fair, pro-immigration people generally do a poor job of explaining this, and it is also probably a bit harder to explain since it requires people to understand how extending generosity to others can ultimately benefit you as well.
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u/spacedout 6d ago edited 5d ago
I've seen upvoted comments in this sub talking about expanding H1B visas to lower wages in tech or among doctors. Why would any worker support a policy that its advocates say will lower their wages but will supposedly create beneficial 2nd order effects?
To be clear, I don't believe the lump labor fallacy, but it seems some pro-immigration commenters/shit posters here do...
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u/No_Switch_4771 6d ago
It is very funny, and telling to see how much the tone changes regarding immigrant labour here when the conversation turns to tech workers instead of say, farm labour.
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u/MasterRazz 6d ago
Quite frequently, one of the main arguments in favour of more immigration is "They'll do the jobs Americans don't want to do," but in the case of tech, those are jobs that Americans want to do and are being priced out of.
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u/No_Switch_4771 6d ago
The complaints against immigrants in tech here is that they are willing to work longer hours for less. Which is the same reason "They do the jobs Americans don't want to do."
If jobs that rely on immigrant labour couldn't you would see them have to improve pay and working conditions and hours in order to attract labour too.
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u/die_rattin 6d ago
people care more about well-paying jobs that are already undergoing layoffs than low-paying jobs that nobody wants to do
wow
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u/No_Switch_4771 6d ago
Thats not the takeaway here. Rather its that r/Neolib is full of tech workers (with its male, young, highly educated userbase) who are suddenly very worried about the localized downsides of immigration where they previously only had to think of the diffused upsides.
Or; now that its their jobs macro economics isn't as fun any more.
It's rent seeking hypocrisy.
Outside of this bubble you get a lot more negativity towards low skilled immigration than the other way around.
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u/Gemmy2002 6d ago
You can't explain it to people who believe in the lump of labor fallacy, they will vehemently deny there is any benefit.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português 6d ago
Exaggerating it probably makes it easier to understand. Would the US be more prosperous if the initial colonists closed themselves off from any immigration to "protect themselves and their stability" or of they received a constant massive influx of well educated workers every year?
I think that every reasonable person can intuitively understand that the second is better for everyone.
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u/Noocawe Frederick Douglass 6d ago
I have a couple family members like that...
They want us all to be nicer to each other, but what it really means is that we don't ostracize or make them feel bad when they say racist things, while they continue to want us all to be nice, but underneath the surface they believe in the philosophy of "separate but equal" with defined social hierarchies.
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic NATO 6d ago
"we should all be nicer to each other"
"You're not being nice"
"Shut up"
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u/Mickenfox European Union 6d ago
The entire right wing media has maintained a clear and coordinated message of "immigrants are violent animals that will murder your family" for years. That's the cause of this.
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u/JaneGoodallVS 6d ago
I'm surprised it's that low, especially given how strongly normal people reacted against Trump saying it, and that Trump said it
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u/reubencpiplupyay The World Must Be Made Unsafe for Autocracy 6d ago
As a liberal democratic society, we declare that there are certain rights that cannot be abrogated simply because the public no longer believes in them. And if the public one day turns against those rights, the state has the obligation to use force to defend the liberal democratic order from the people.
And there we see the problem. There is no institution on earth so strong that it can stop the will of the people from overturning the liberal democratic order. A lot of analysis has focused on structural factors like institutions, but there is surprisingly little that focuses on the foundation for all those institutions: the civic culture.
And the truth is that American civic culture is in terrible shape. Maybe it has gotten worse, or maybe has been bad for a long time. We can debate the causes and the details, but it is very clear that there is a significant section of American society which does not hold allegiance to the values supposedly embodied by the United States. They might believe they are still loyal, but their actions and their views, as seen with polling like this, demonstrate otherwise.
A liberal democracy cannot simply declare that the cultural sphere is outside of its zone of concern. It cannot simply declare neutrality on what is the foundation of society. To do that is to allow antidemocratic and anti-liberal sentiment to metastasise into a movement that may some day bring about the destruction of the liberal democracy. The use of force to uphold the republic might be an antidote to reactionary swells, but prevention is better than a cure.
I am not advocating for massive censorship of the kind usually favoured by those that mention the paradox of tolerance. Instead, I am asking for the liberal state to become an active promoter of republican virtue in every aspect of the culture. From a young age, citizens must be steeped in a liberal democratic culture that permeates society. Every effort must be taken to ensure that the people produced by American society do not support the xenophobic and reactionary barbarism so prevalent in the America of today.
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u/B1g_Morg NATO 6d ago
The people in America are much more allegiant to the flag than any ideals it is supposed to represent
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u/_meshuggeneh Baruch Spinoza 6d ago
Absolutely.
Individual rights are not up to the popular vote.
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u/DeepestShallows 5d ago
Well sure, in America it’s way worse than that: the founding document of American civil rights was created such that rights could only be recognised or updated with the unanimous consent of all the states.
American civil rights are predicated on “protecting” the rights that everyone agrees on (which are least in need of protection).
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u/B1g_Morg NATO 6d ago
The people in America are much more allegiant to the flag than any ideals it is supposed to represent
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/HeightEnergyGuy 6d ago
You did read about that time we put all those Japanese citizens into camps right?
The america you are describing isn't real beyond books written by people who were for the most parts hypocrites.
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u/TouchTheCathyl NATO 6d ago
America fundamentally has no social contract right now. It arguably never did since any area in which we had one, there was a giant asterisk where we vented our distrust and hatred on an entire race used as an effigy of social illness.
We cancelled the Wicker Man festivals for being cruel and slowly turned more inward and afraid of each other without any effort to build trust.
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u/RTSBasebuilder Commonwealth 6d ago
There really is a point in the sub where minds start to break that for quite a lot of people, a sizeable minority, perhaps even a slim majority of a nation's citizenry:
Democracy, human rights, rule of law, freedom from cruelty and arbitrary fear is more an aesthetic than a value or principle. Literally just that, nice sounding words to rally around.
Or in our sub's terms, they think of it as a luxury belief. No self-evident truths and inalienable rights that all men are created equal, and a government of the people, for the people by the people unless they can decide who counts as the people.
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u/SamanthaMunroe Lesbian Pride 6d ago edited 6d ago
I've been getting used to it. Humanity didn't tolerate autocratic states for millennia for nothing, and we haven't found the switch that turns autocrat sympathizers into natural liberals either. This was very helpful with that.
Most of this species has wanted to be as homogenous and mercilessly intolerant of outsiders as eusocial bee and ant hives for millennia.
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u/Longjumping_Gain_807 Thurgood Marshall 6d ago
Breaking news: Half of GOP voters don’t like immigrants.
Yeah we kinda already knew that. I don’t know what else that people could have been expecting. I mean here’s what Trump said about them:
They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country.
That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”
They don’t care if they’re Africans, Asians, Europeans, they don’t care. They just don’t like immigrants.
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u/forceholy YIMBY 6d ago
It's stuff like this that makes me think that footage of children getting hauled off to the camps isn't going to do much to change public opinion. The GOP wants this.
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u/mekkeron NATO 6d ago
That's why I've always been very skeptical to the whole "Once Americans get a glimpse of what those deportations are actually gonna look like, they'll change their view." But I don't think that they will, simply judging by the reactions of people I know, to the family separations during Trump's first term. They had no shortage of excuses: "Well if I'm arrested, I'll be separated from my family too", "They should've come here legally", "Did you know that it was Obama who built those cages?", and so on. It'll be the same thing this time around
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u/forceholy YIMBY 6d ago
I don't even think blood will move them. You have Europeans cheer when migrant boats get sunk. Why would it be any different here?
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u/LowCall6566 6d ago
A minority of Europeans. Parties like AFD and Reform usually do not get more than 20%
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u/boyyouguysaredumb Obamarama 6d ago
I don’t think the numbers in OP would be that different in European countries among conservative voters
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u/attackofthetominator John Brown 6d ago
The issue is that number has been increasing every election.
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u/ThisAfricanboy African Union 6d ago
Reform is leading in a few polls and are currently at best right behind labour. They are a plurality of political opinion.
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u/Mickenfox European Union 6d ago
But thanks to the American electoral system you only need like 30% to win.
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u/griminald 6d ago
I've always been very skeptical to the whole "Once Americans get a glimpse of what those deportations are actually gonna look like, they'll change their view."
I think what people are relying on is the economics of deportations changing their view.
They'll never stop demonizing immigrants. But the money is the only language that may convince people this isn't worth it.
As people have started to realize, "Holy crap, tariffs might actually be happening", we're seeing more and more warning flags fly up about price increases.
I think the same will happen with a deportation program. We're already seeing warnings go up from construction industries about the cost increases.
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u/Noocawe Frederick Douglass 6d ago
I feel the same way, they may only care if it affects the quality of service and goods they might want or need, prices of food and maybe just maybe if it affects their children, grandchildren or partners. Other than that I have no faith that they'd actually be torn up about it.
It's either that, or they fundamentally like the rhetoric but don't believe that what these people say they are going to do, are really going to happen. I genuinely have no idea, but if they had empathy or cared about liberal values they wouldn't want to deport people here legally in the first place or want massive prison camps holding people. Further, we all know that they'll blame the left or liberals for any bad outcomes anyway.
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u/12hphlieger Daron Acemoglu 6d ago
I know people who will probably react gleefully to that footage.
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6d ago
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u/forceholy YIMBY 6d ago
I guarantee you that you will see a hotline set up to report suspected immigrants, cops detain US citizens and militias run around population centers harassing brown people.
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u/mullahchode 6d ago
public opinion is more than just GOP opinion
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u/forceholy YIMBY 6d ago
Let's hope you're right
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u/mullahchode 6d ago
i don't know if the needle will move much but there will be some small % of trump voters who will think this stuff is icky.
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u/SlideN2MyBMs 6d ago edited 6d ago
I'm a little more optimistic that we won't see something like this at scale simply because (1) it has less than 50% support even among Republicans, (2) it would be a logistical nightmare and Trump is extremely lazy and capricious and (3) any large mass deportation would quickly have a noticeable effect on labor markets and we've already seen what just the suggestion of limiting new legal immigration does to the tech CEOS. I do think we'll get more workplace raids and probably some very high profile ones where Trump declares victory and then moves on.
Edit: otoh, America has done stuff like this before: operation w*tback and japanese internment camps
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u/forceholy YIMBY 6d ago
I dunno. You'll see MAGAs whining that they still see too many brown people for their liking.
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u/RetardevoirDullade 6d ago
Nah if they are white it matters less. Just go on Twitter and see for yourself what the MAGAs actually think
Handful of Twitter white nationalists are nothing in comparison to the millions of Trump voters of color
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português 6d ago
They don’t care if they’re Africans, Asians, Europeans, they don’t care.
You're mind-blowingly naive if you really believe this, lol
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u/blatant_shill 6d ago
These people are going to be way more forgiving of white immigrants than non-white immigrants, but hatred of immigrants doesn't stop when immigrants are white. You're completely ignoring American history if you think that can't be the case.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português 6d ago
Historically, surely. But things get away more vitriolic and hateful when they imagine the immigrant as brown. It's also been true throughout the entirety of American history. The recent H1B debate wouldn't be the same if they weren't imagining Indians.
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u/blatant_shill 6d ago
The entire H1B visa debate that is getting people riled up is that these people think immigrants are coming for American jobs. Do you think that if you replaced Indian immigrants with immigrants from Eastern Europe that all these people would just be cool with it just because they are white? Racism is a major factor in why people hate immigrants, but so is nativism.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português 6d ago
I think that if it was about English or Scandinavians, people would be significantly less bothered, yes. I think that Vivek particularly stinged as many people as he did for challenging the "racial hierarchy of inate abilities" that a lot of Americans believe in.
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u/blatant_shill 6d ago
I didn't ask if people would be less bothered. I asked if you think people wouldn't want to crack down on immigration just because immigrants were white. I don't doubt people would be less bothered, but you just called that other person naive for saying what they said. It seems way more naive to think that the people who hate immigrants entirely based off fear would simply draw a line at white immigrants.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português 6d ago
And I explained to you that the situation is significantly more complex and that the racial views of a lot of Americans have a lot of nuance for inside Europe as well, including that people from traditionally protestant countries are seen as intrinsecally superior to traditionally Catholic or Orthodox ones. What you asked is not some magical things that should completely determine the conversation, lol. Get a fucking grip
It seems way more naive to think that the people who hate immigrants entirely based off fear would simply draw a line at white immigrants.
Only if you interpret the reply in the most childish way for the sake of arguing. There will be multiple different lines at different points, and there is absolutely one separating non-Europeans from Europeans. Again, this is obvious and has been explicitly said multiple times, including by Trump.
It's one of those things that I even get weirded out when someone tries to argue. Why would someone deny such an obvious, practical reality?
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u/blatant_shill 6d ago edited 6d ago
Go look back at your original reply to the first comment in this thread and stop pretending like it's other people being childish here. You came in calling someone naive, acting like this was an incredibly simple issue, and effectively said there no world in which white immigrants could be subject to anti-immigration sentiment. Now you're trying to act like I think racism isn't a factor and not actually addressing the question I asked multiple times, mostly likely because you know the answer and don't want to say.
Nobody here is debating or deny that racist people think there is a racial hierarchy, but that isn't even close to the sole reason for why people are opposed to immigration. Your views on this situation are deeply unserious if you're solely approaching it through a racial lens and not addressing the major reasons for why so many people are against immigration. People who are against immigration aren't just racist, they are people who have a zero-sum mindset and think others doing well means they do worse. There is literally a massive movement among leftists right now who are extremely progressive when it comes to racial issues that are railing against immigration because they think it harms them financially.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português 6d ago
Both things can be true, and individuals can also believe in one but not another. For the average Trump voter, I do believe that racism is the main factor more than anything else. In a world in which "poisoning the blood of our nation", "great replacement theory" and "Americans are a group of shared ancestry" are a thing, I'll never understate the impact of racism in the views that people have of immigration. There is a reason that the debate revolves around Mexicans, Haitians, Indians, etc. It just makes the subject much more catastrophic for a considerable part of the American electorate, because those groups can "ruin" the country in a way the deeply connects to them.
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u/FlamingTomygun2 George Soros 6d ago
Look at the uk pre brexit. They bitched about romanians, poles, albanians, and bulgarians all the time
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u/savuporo Gerard K. O'Neill 6d ago
But things get away more vitriolic and hateful when they imagine the immigrant as brown. It's also been true throughout the entirety of American history.
Incorrect, Asians have had their moments.
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u/RetardevoirDullade 6d ago edited 6d ago
The recent H1B debate wouldn't be the same if they weren't imagining Indians.
Do you really think people are going to be fine losing their jobs to immigrants (or thinking that) if said immigrants were white?
There just isn't a huge amount of white immigration to the US today to test this theory, but I think they would suffer no less hatred if that happened. East Asians, Southeast Asians, Africans etc aren't exactly white either, but you can see that the H1B discourse largely left them alone since the vast majority of H1Bs are Indians.
Besides, this kind of racial thinking wasn't shown to be helpful in trying to win elections
(Also, this is likely another reason why immigrants and minorities themselves may oppose increased immigration, to avoid the racism caused by bringing in too much of their "own kind" at once. It is less "F you I got mine" and more "I barely just got mine and I don't hate you but I can't let you in lest we both fail")
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u/EdgeCityRed Montesquieu 6d ago
This happened to Polish workers in the UK.
After months of anti-immigrant rhetoric in the run up to EU referendum in the UK in June 2016, the number of racially aggravated offences recorded by the police in the same month was 41 per cent higher than in July 2015 (Home Office 2016). Laminated cards were left outside primary schools and posted through letterboxes of Polish people in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, with the words ‘Leave the EU/No more Polish vermin’ in English and Polish (Cambridge News, June 25, 2016). Arkadiusz Jóźwik, a 40-year- old Polish factory worker in Harlow, died after being punched to the ground for speaking Polish in the street. Bartosz Milewski, a 21-year-old student was stabbed in the neck with a broken bottle because his perpetrators heard him speaking Polish with his friend in Don- nington, near Telford (Independent, September 20, 2016). The wave of post-Brexit vote hostility revealed the extent of racism and xenophobia which affected not only Polish nationals but also other migrants and settled ethnic minorities, including British citizens (Burnett 2017; Komaromi and Singh 2016).
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u/yes_thats_me_again The land belongs to all men 6d ago
I refuse to believe that if all immigration was from Denmark, anti-immigration sentiment would be even half of what it is
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u/RetardevoirDullade 6d ago
These people are going to be way more forgiving of white immigrants than non-white immigrants
With the demographics of today's US and how the voters of different races voted in 2024 for Trump, I actually think that they will not be any more tolerant towards the white ones either.
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u/from-the-void John Rawls 6d ago
People didn't consider Italians, Irish, and Poles to be "white" back then.
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u/wallander1983 6d ago
In the UK, the Brexit campaign also stirred up hatred against hard-working Polish craftsmen and nurses, among others.
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u/GrabMyHoldyFolds 6d ago
From what I've seen and read, Brits consider themselves to be somewhat of an ethnic group so the Polish are still "outsiders."
I worked with a Brit who immigrated here (US) around 2010 and he absolutely hated the Polish, he talked about them like an American racist talks about Mexicans or blacks.
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u/colourless_blue John von Neumann 6d ago
Yes, a lot of the xenophobic rhetoric that fuelled Brexit was directed at Eastern Europeans (Poles and Romanians mostly). A lot of the narratives were similar to in the US re: the lump of labour fallacy, undercutting blue collar labour, etc. I think the ‘British as a self-identified ethnic group’ thing isn’t necessarily that widespread (even as a national identity it’s fractious), but it is an ethnic category in the census.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português 6d ago
Yes, but this is not the brexit campaign. And well, the people speaking publicly are not stupid and understand very well that they need to paint their campaign with a case that isn't openly racist, mentioning shit like the great replacement just from time to time
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u/Longjumping_Gain_807 Thurgood Marshall 6d ago
Maybe saying that they don’t care if they’re Europeans was a stretch but the others they definitely don’t like
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u/Noocawe Frederick Douglass 6d ago
Well they don't mind the Eastern European women they meet at clubs, golf courses, restaurants or casinos though! Those are okay.
I wish I was joking... But it is weird how often I've met men who hate immigrants while being married to a trophy wife that immigrated here.
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u/flakemasterflake 6d ago
It’s not weird if they’re conditioned to view wives as beneath them. Look up passport bros, being from third world countries is part of the appeal
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u/Longjumping_Gain_807 Thurgood Marshall 6d ago
Oh I forgot to ping
!ping IMMIGRATION
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u/groupbot The ping will always get through 6d ago
Pinged IMMIGRATION (subscribe | unsubscribe | history)
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u/jayred1015 YIMBY 6d ago
I dunno, seems like a lot of GOP voters may differentiate between good immigrants (those who look like them perhaps) and bad immigrants.
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u/WifeGuy-Menelaus Victor Hugo 6d ago
a 1798 law
The Alien and Enemies Act, one of the Alien and Sedition Act, last used for Japanese-American interment
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6d ago edited 6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/p00bix Is this a calzone? 6d ago
Rule II: Bigotry
Bigotry of any kind will be sanctioned harshly.
If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
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u/FuckFashMods 6d ago
Can't believe the US is about to run concentration camps again
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u/Passionateemployment 6d ago
with republicans slim majority in congress i doubt it. democrats don’t even support this
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u/LtCdrHipster Jane Jacobs 6d ago
Another Trump cycle outrage. Trump will get tons of negative press on this, make a big showing about using the military, and then it'll just be, like, 10 guys in national guard uniforms driving military trucks with people apprehended at the boarder to a normal detention facility, then claim a great victory.
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u/Wonderful-Topo 6d ago
yea logistics is not something his admin does well. But I assume it's a money funneling thing - give his friends a ton of money to "build" the camps, give contracts, but don't really build much or do much.
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u/Cosmic_Love_ 6d ago
Good news is that 3 quarters of Americans oppose this. And I bet that number goes up when it actually does happen. Words on a survey pale in comparison to the horror of it actually happening.
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u/technologyisnatural Friedrich Hayek 6d ago
yeah we know 😔
this ain't goin' anywhere though ... unless Trump declares a national emergency 😬
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u/NotABigChungusBoy NATO 6d ago
I think we can agree that immigrants should ideally come here legally and also that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are good people who are looking for a better life for their family.
Theres no long term economic downsides to illegal immigration either
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u/actual_wookiee_AMA Milton Friedman 6d ago
This has to be a leading question, no way that many people would agree... right?
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u/Insomonomics Jason Furman 6d ago
Very healthy major political party we have here in the United States.
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u/Independent-Bite283 5d ago
What a stain in the biggest democracy of the world founded by migrants , what an ugly stain and an embarrassment
i guess the answer to the question they made after ww2: is yes it can happen here
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u/Lycaon1765 Has Canada syndrome 5d ago
And this is why you shouldn't be nice to conservatives anymore.
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u/kolejack2293 6d ago
Not to be that guy, but we look inherently dishonest saying 'immigrants' when its really illegal immigrants. This is the type of shit that makes moderates think of us as disingenuous, and eventually turn away from us.
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6d ago
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u/Spectrum1523 6d ago
Okay, then the poll should reflect that. Pretending that the poll says what it doesn't isn't helpful
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u/caroline_elly Eugene Fama 6d ago
This gets repeated to make the other side look bad, but the data don't support that.
71% of Trump supporters favor admitting higher skilled immigrants, 63% favor letting international students stay after graduation. Even 49% favor accepting refugees.
Support fell significantly for illegals, so it isn't accurate to say conservative voters don't draw that distinction.
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u/Intelligent-Pause510 6d ago
it absolutely is a distinction among IRL conservative voters not just this online echo chamber
My own mother is a perfect example. Her best friend is a lady called Usha from india and they came here legally and she loves them, but she does not have much support for people who came here illegally (and neither does Usha funnily enough.)
I support letting people immigrate I do, and I think it should be way easier and I think that people here undocumented should be given a pathway in.
A lot of people really do see a distinction, and while for some people its about race, for a lot of people they just want people to do it the legal way or not at all.
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u/Intelligent-Pause510 6d ago
You're not wrong but this place is becoming an echo chamber similar to regular reddit political subs.
The hard cold fact is that the vast majority of this country regardless of political alignment does not want more immigration at all, and wants illegal immigration dealt with.
While I like this subs open borders policy and I personally support it, most people on here seem to be unaware how overwhelmingly unpopular of a policy that is in america. They see the moronic incident in a town in bumfuck nowhere ohio about haitian immigrants and are like "well since 70% of americans dont want more immigrants that means 70% think that haitains are eating dogs because they are racist"
Until democrats start actually listening to what regular people are wanting and feeling and seeing they will continue to lose elections that could have been easily won.
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u/Any-Feature-4057 6d ago
This is the golden chance for Democrats gaining the upper hand. We have to promote ourselves that we are the centrist party. We aren’t racist towards Indian. We are opening our legal immigration to get the smartest talent from all over the world.
I’m pretty sure Indian techbro will like this.
Hopefully our far left faction won’t sabotage our effort tho
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u/TrekkiMonstr NATO 6d ago
Alright yeah I'm against birthright citizenship now, fuck these guys
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u/rr215 European Union 6d ago
This shit is absolutely going to infect legal immigration discussions, the H1B visa discourse is seemingly becoming a bipartisan issue against expanding caps.
Idiots all around.