r/neoliberal • u/Saltedline Hu Shih • Dec 03 '24
Trump vows to block Nippon Steel's planned purchase of US Steel News (Asia)
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20241203/p2g/00m/0bu/020000c385
u/bigwang123 ▪️▫️crossword guy ▫️▪️ Dec 03 '24
They really should have changed their fuckin name to anything else
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u/sponsoredcommenter Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 03 '24
MAGA Foundries Ltd. based in Tokyo has launched a new bid for US Steel.
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u/Y0___0Y Dec 03 '24
Nippon literally means “Japanese” in Japanese.
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u/eta_carinae_311 Dec 03 '24
Yes but that's the point right. It's clearly a Japanese company buying a US company.
Maybe NSC would go over better, like TSMC.
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u/Y0___0Y Dec 03 '24
oh lmao I thought he thought it was a racial slur
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u/eta_carinae_311 Dec 03 '24
I taught English in Japan for several years, I once made the mistake of explaining to the middle school kids why their pronunciation of "Nepal" me giggle.... If you know the word chikubi you'll understand haha
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u/shrek_cena Al Gorian Society Dec 03 '24
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u/bigwang123 ▪️▫️crossword guy ▫️▪️ Dec 03 '24
I was actually thinking about having US steel change its name, I suppose it works both ways lol
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u/afanoftrees John Locke Dec 03 '24
Nippon means Nippon in Nippon? Do they speak Nippon in Nipponland?
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u/Kebebe45 Bisexual Pride Dec 03 '24
The so called “anti-China” candidate deciding to throw one of our biggest allies in the Pacific under the bus in the name of brainless xenophobic nationalism.
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u/DangerousCyclone Dec 03 '24
Japan is widely seen as being the reason the US Steel industry declined. The real reason is that US Steel was badly mismanaged and its main response to competition was to lobby for tariffs, but hey both parties agreed that this was something they needed to protect, neither thought to point out that this is a government intervention to prop up a zombie company that wants to die and that isn’t even that important to US Steel manufacturing anymore.
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Jerome Powell Dec 03 '24
Reminder to make your company name something awesome and patriotic so you can lobby politicians for special favors. I should get my MBA from Harvard now.
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u/Aidan_Welch Zhao Ziyang Dec 03 '24
You need a name that makes you sound like a government entity so people trust you. Like USAA, or National Public Data
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u/JohnStuartShill2 NATO Dec 03 '24
In 1931, a private bank called "The Bank of the United States" went bankrupt due to liquidity shortage + bank run. It was widely reported without context, and people literally thought the official U.S. gov't bank collapsed, and sent more people to run their banks.
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u/Creative_Hope_4690 Dec 03 '24
lol Biden and Harris said they will block it
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u/Kebebe45 Bisexual Pride Dec 03 '24
Because Biden is a protectionist nationalist as well
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u/Master_of_Rodentia Dec 03 '24
Y'all need to adjust to the fact that you live in a democracy populated mostly by protectionists.
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u/Accomplished_Oil6158 Dec 03 '24
Dude can i do one at a time?
Im still trying to come to terms with the voting in a blant disgusting idiot fraud sexist in 2016. Ill need a second to catch up.
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u/omnipotentsandwich Amartya Sen Dec 03 '24
At least, protectionist politicians. I know most people support protectionism but I think that's mostly because we don't have any prominent free trade voices. If we had pro-trade politicians, maybe protectionism wouldn't be as popular.
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Jerome Powell Dec 03 '24
I mean that hasn't been the trend over the past forty years, just the last couple. We should still resist stupid stuff like this and do our best to advocate for free trade policies and against cronyism like this.
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u/Common_RiffRaff But her emails! Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 03 '24
I believe that free trade Polls positively
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u/Kebebe45 Bisexual Pride Dec 03 '24
Not in rust belt swing states though, since they seem convinced that one more tariff will make manufacturing come back for real this time. And the electoral college gives them disproportionate influence.
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u/WolfpackEng22 Dec 03 '24
Both parties baby Rust Belt voters. They get no pushback from either party these days on their false belief in tariffs.
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u/Khiva Dec 03 '24
Good thing union rank and file turned out for Biden after everything he did for them.
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u/God_Given_Talent NATO Dec 03 '24
Biden and Harris being protectionist didn't win them the Rust Belt though so idk if it's really the critical factor...
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u/Master_of_Rodentia Dec 03 '24
Yes, they want free trade and also tariffs. Why you gotta overcomplicate things?
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português Dec 03 '24
People can disagree with the majority, brother. You need to adjust to that
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u/Master_of_Rodentia Dec 03 '24
Absolutely! Wasn't saying you should change your minds, free trade is good. Just that I see a lot of surprise at these outcomes, which - regrettably - are a sign that your peoples' will is being democratically expressed.
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u/uuajskdokfo Dec 03 '24
What do you want us to do? It’s bad no matter how many people support it.
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u/Master_of_Rodentia Dec 03 '24
Oh for sure. It's the surprise at these outcomes that's perhaps unwarranted.
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u/MagicalFishing Martin Luther King Jr. Dec 03 '24
does the word "nationalist" just mean nothing now
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u/Flying_Birdy Dec 03 '24
There’s convergence across the isle on trade related issues. Both parties are equally protectionist, because they are trying to win over the critical union vote. The whole country is being held hostage by the interests of rust belt states.
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Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 03 '24
Start scratching the surface and you would realise that the Indo Pacific strategy or whatever they call it is nothing but a PR gimmick. The economic framework died pretty much after it was born. Japan is the reason US has some influence or goodwill left beside security. But that is going away. A staunch US ally like Indonesia with a new President who used to warn about China and Chinese investment as late as 2019, is now shifting his country towards China than US. Australia is feeling buyer's remorse with the AUKUS. India is coming to reality about US support and China+1 and has started improving relationships with China. Japan is feeling increasingly lonely between both Biden and Trump coming in 2025.
The QUAD is also not surviving this decade. US is not comfortable opening up to any of the partners significantly like it did with China once. More importantly the disturbing thing is that the policymakers in Washington are not realising this.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português Dec 03 '24
The stench of decline is simply unbearable and impossible to ignore
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Dec 03 '24
The more I read the diplomat or Atlantic or whatever publications with a history of discourse on foreign policy, this is the first time I feel that they have been disconnected with the reality. Sure you can blame allies (if you can call allies allies), but when ASEAN countries, which have a history of maintaining a fine balance between China and US, starts tilting towards China then you have a problem. And it is not due to Israel Gaza War not the only reason as diplomat or others would have you believe. At the height of Yom Kippur War, most of the Islamic SEA countries were neutral. It is the disillusionment with US policies in the region. In 5 years, reality would probably hit them. But it definitely is not hitting them now.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português Dec 03 '24
And this is before Trump even hits office, and he is the type of figure that drives allies away on a very personal level. His manners are already insufferable for Westerners, but for Asia, they'll make for an even easier sell of China as being the adult in the room.
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Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 03 '24
With Trump obviously it is more in the appearance. But Biden was rarely thought as the reliable partner (it is different topic that whether it will better or worse than Trump). The IPEF debacle with Japan is a case in point. The things he did have reduced the lifespan of Quad.
When Trump left office and Biden was coming in., US was still favoured higher than China and in fact increased owing to China's many border transgressions with India. Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia in SCS etc. But disappointment on Biden has been paramount and the disagreement became distrust as the countries and US did not share the same perspective on the Ukraine war. Blocking the G20 summit goals in 2022 in Indonesia did not go down well. Marcos took Philippines towards US but the defence partnership he was looking for did not materialise (for one US has been reluctant to help Philippines beyond a certain point). Increasingly that meant PH buying missile systems from India. But it got weirder when certain signals were sent about a new alliance that would replace Quad but with Philippines instead of India (very suspiciously after the missile deal). AUKUS definitely did not go well with SEA countries and even Japan and Korea.
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u/thercio27 MERCOSUR Dec 03 '24
By AUKUS not going well do you mean SEA disliking the alliance itself or the individual countries?
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Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 03 '24
SEA sees it as destabilizing alliance. It concentrates the potential nuke submarine fleet too close to their EEZs. They fear in a full blown out war, even if they are not involved, you could have one of the country launching missiles from their SSBN using their territorial waters. Australia took care some of the anxiety by signing an agreement with Indonesia.
AUKUS also sent the wrong signals. The French were suddenly kicked out by the Australians as they withdrew from the Barracuda program. To include US and UK (nobody gets why UK is there but okay). Not that the Australian Navy is unimportant but it is JSDF navy, South Korean Navy and Indian Navy who are doing the deterrence work. Only Indian Navy operates two SSBNs. While the other two would definitely appreciate one however AUKUS has not included them despite interest from their side.
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u/Nerf_France Ben Bernanke Dec 03 '24
Blocking the G20 summit goals in 2022 in Indonesia did not go down well.
What happened there? Couldn't find much about it online.
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Dec 04 '24
The declaration passed through but Indonesia and most of Asean and developing countries wanted the talks on debt restructuring which was necessary after the COVID crisis. Instead Ukraine Russia war was forced upon the discussion. Not that the war wasn't discussed. Indonesia retrieved the situation by focusing on getting a declaration on Ukraine Russia war alignment with everyone and the other pressing issues were pretty much kinda dropped.
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u/Jordyn_USA Dec 03 '24
It’s not to be taken literally. “China” refers to East Asian countries in general.
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u/wombo_combo12 Dec 03 '24
I bet he just views that part of the world is just one big blurb
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u/Aidan_Welch Zhao Ziyang Dec 03 '24
I know the Trump dumb joke, but I think some people do actually believe he is that dumb
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u/attackofthetominator John Brown Dec 03 '24
Campaigns on bringing back manufacturing jobs
Proceeds to shoot down company that would help bring back said manufacturing jobs
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u/yourunclejoe Daron Acemoglu Dec 03 '24
you dummy idiot. Nippon Steel is obviously going to steal the jobs and take them to japan.
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u/JohnStuartShill2 NATO Dec 03 '24
populist math
US investment in foreign economies = US jobs taken away
foreign investment in the US economy = believe it or not, US jobs taken away.
Remote japanese teleworkers will simply operate the newly invested capital in PA.
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u/Creative_Hope_4690 Dec 03 '24
Who? Biden, Harris or Trump?
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u/Soonhun Bisexual Pride Dec 03 '24
Yeah. As much as I hate Trump, and I did vote for Harris, Harris's stance on this was very disappointly the same. And people all over Reddit were saying to stand by her no matter what.
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u/falltotheabyss Dec 03 '24
Well... Yeah, look at the fucking alternative.
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u/Soonhun Bisexual Pride Dec 03 '24
I get it. But I hate that we had to resort to supporting stupid policies because of our system.
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u/KamiBadenoch Dec 03 '24
Welcome to the big tent. Your seat is right over there, between Liz Cheney and Bernie Sanders.
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u/Khiva Dec 03 '24
Now we all get to feel how succs feel when they complain about whatever neoliberalism means this week.
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u/KamiBadenoch Dec 03 '24
Welcome to the big tent. Your seat is right over there, between Liz Cheney and Bernie Sanders.
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u/tlollz52 Dec 03 '24
I mean I'd be surprised if anyone, who isn't a complete fucking fool, would agree 100% with any political candidate you vote for
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u/Soonhun Bisexual Pride Dec 03 '24
Yeah but this was an utterly stupid policy from every angle.and it isn't like it ended up helping her actually win the rust belt.
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u/Khiva Dec 03 '24
And people all over Reddit were saying to stand by her no matter what.
Why wouldn't they? I may have some concerns that her housing policy was inflationary, but I have a lot more problems with the giant ball of asteroid space cancer.
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u/brucebananaray YIMBY Dec 03 '24
So the jobs in those towns and cities will be gone because Trump is petty and America first.
Hey, I don't feel sad about those workers losing their jobs because they voted for this moron.
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u/eta_carinae_311 Dec 03 '24
The Daily episode today was about Trump's previous round of tariffs. The steel tariffs DID work in the sense that American steel production rose.
But the industries that use steel, like automakers, produced less because it was more expensive.
So while there was a bump for one industry (steel), the overall economy lost.
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u/Se7en_speed r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 06 '24
Bush literally did the same thing and it backfires in the same way.
I am begging for people to learn from the past.
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u/goldenCapitalist NATO Dec 03 '24
Tariffs are privatized gains for socialized losses. Making things more expensive for everyone to bolster the domestic industry of a select few. We see this in agriculture products today, and now steel.
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u/Aidan_Welch Zhao Ziyang Dec 03 '24
This is almost everything in a democracy though, there are some people who benefit a lot from something so they lobby for it, and a lot of people who have marginal (and sometimes not so marginal) cost for them individually.
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Jerome Powell Dec 03 '24
Almost like Milton Friedman warned us about the invisible cost of protectionism fifty years ago.
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u/blewpah Dec 03 '24
Asking for clarification cause I'm not in the loop about the situation with this buyout - how would this purchase protect jobs?
Is this Japanese company planning/expected to keep US factories running as opposed to them otherwise being closed and those jobs moving overseas or is it something else? First I'm hearing about this.
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u/SpaceSheperd To be a good human Dec 03 '24
US Steel is very poorly managed. Ostensibly, if it were acquired by a better managed competitor, it would be less likely to have to shut down plants
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u/Stonefroglove Dec 03 '24
Trump is a moron, true. But Biden and Harris said the same thing on this issue
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u/Emperor-Commodus NATO Dec 03 '24
Trump gets all the attention, but the real issue is the US population getting populism-pilled disinformation fed to them constantly.
Properly informed voters would know that the best course of action is to just let Nippon buy USS. But the voters aren't properly informed, and that disinfo ripples the whole way up the chain into the policymakers.
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u/Yogg_for_your_sprog Milton Friedman Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 03 '24
If you voted for Biden, you voted for the exact same idiocy according to your logic
But sure, you can pretend this is a Trump exclusive problem if that makes you sleep better at night
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Dec 03 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SpaceSheperd To be a good human Dec 03 '24
Rule XI: Toxic Nationalism/Regionalism
Refrain from condemning countries and regions or their inhabitants at-large in response to political developments, mocking people for their nationality or region, or advocating for colonialism or imperialism.
If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
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u/ixvst01 NATO Dec 03 '24
I am totally against the once great and powerful U.S. Steel being bought by a foreign company
The irony is he recognizes that U.S. Steel was "once great" yet doesn’t support an acquisition which by design saves US steel from closing plants and going bankrupt.
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u/BlueGoosePond Dec 03 '24
Even if they close plants and go bankrupt, wouldn't the assets just be sold off to other companies? If Trump forces them to be American, is this just a delayed way of USS selling off to domestic companies like Alcoa, Cleveland Cliffs, Nucor, etc.?
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u/PinkFloydPanzer Dec 03 '24
Would still be great if management wasn't a fucking joke for the past half a century. Gary Works is a museum at this point with how much equipment there predates 1960.
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u/Aidan_Welch Zhao Ziyang Dec 03 '24
Sadly government has basically never understood acquisitions and mergers. Just look at Spirit/JetBlue
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u/jaydec02 Trans Pride Dec 03 '24
Amazing how Spirit went bankrupt practically immediately after the deal was rejected. Almost like it was necessary and stupid to block it on "antitrust" reasons
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u/TheloniousMonk15 Dec 03 '24
Wonder how we will ever undo all the damage 12 straight years of Biden and Trump have done to free trade.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português Dec 03 '24
Never, big companies with entrenched interests are nearly impossoble to remove from power, especially in a country in which money is so influential in politics. Welcome to LATAM, US
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u/SpaceSheperd To be a good human Dec 03 '24
Big companies with entrenched interests support free trade...
US Steel isn't a puppet master that's purchased influence in our political system. US Steel is the meek, lucky beneficiary of a voting populace with a zero-sum view of geopolitics and a misplaced sense of industrial nostalgia.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português Dec 04 '24
Big companies with entrenched interests support free trade...
Lol, not in a tariff scenario in which their relevance comes from dominating the national market while being incapable of competing with foreign companies should the barriers to trade be lifted.
US Steel isn't a puppet master that's purchased influence in our political system. US Steel is the meek, lucky beneficiary of a voting populace with a zero-sum view of geopolitics and a misplaced sense of industrial nostalgia.
You are thinking about the current scenario, not what about could happen if Trump's new tariffs were implemented. Protectionism creates its own breed of rent-seekers.
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u/StonkSalty Dec 03 '24
"Keep manufacturing in America!" says steelworker as he gets into his Toyota.
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u/lumpialarry Dec 03 '24 edited Dec 03 '24
I can't tell if this is a "The working class doesn't vote with their wallets" or "The working class is too dumb to know that foreign companies invest and manufacture things in the US". Something like 65-70% of Toyotas are built in the US. I think all of the trucks are.
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português Dec 03 '24
Which is why Hilux are superior. The weak, hedonistic and pampered American worker can't compete with the strong Mexican ubermensch worker who can climb a wall, commit crimes and steal 12 jobs every single day
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u/assasstits Dec 03 '24
This but unironically.
One of my favorite genre of news is US farmers saying how incapable, lazy, unprepared US workers are at doing what Mexican workers do.
Chad Mexicans vs Virgin Americans indeed
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u/GrandePersonalidade nem fala português Dec 03 '24
The average life expectancy for migrant farmworkers is 49 years. Part of me is finding the possibility of them getting deported for soft American kids to get their jobs entertaining, both for the physical consequences and what would happen to food prices. Schadenfreude, I believe.
When you consider that as LATAM develops the migration influx will diminish (the balance is already under 0 for Mexico), the US is simply throwing the last few decades of access that they have to cheap labour in the trash for racism and stupidity. China is laughing all the way to the bank
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u/JohnStuartShill2 NATO Dec 03 '24
The farmers know that they are essentially protected from labor (and any other) shocks by decades long government paternalism/subsidization.
As we saw, the democracy-loving patriots of the US are willing to change a whole lot when egg price go up.
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u/BBQ_HaX0r Jerome Powell Dec 03 '24
The consumers have spoken and they want their cake and to eat it too.
Toyota makes better cars/steel! We better reward incompetent businesses and protect them with tariffs, subsidies, or bailouts so they can remain competitive!
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u/Aidan_Welch Zhao Ziyang Dec 03 '24
The gall of some people to want to remain employed but also not go into debt buying a car
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u/admiralfell Dec 03 '24
Japanese Conservatives in shambles lmao. So much for Abe’s close “””friendship””” with Trump.
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u/eta_carinae_311 Dec 03 '24
Didn't he get shot? They have a surprising amount in common...
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u/Embarrassed_Jerk Immanuel Kant Dec 03 '24
You guys are overreacting. He'll let the purchase go through....once the company pays him a bribe
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u/NIMBYDelendaEst Dec 03 '24
From a strictly economic perspective, that would be better than just blocking it outright. I often think that corrupt administration can be more effective than principled leadership if the principles are wrong. This is most obvious in the case of land use where a corrupt city official that allows building with bribes is far superior to one that just bans all construction and takes no bribes.
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u/RonenSalathe Jeff Bezos Dec 03 '24
Someone should make an effortpost on the merits of corruption
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u/FarmOfMaxwell Dec 03 '24
There is some Scholarly Research on this topic. The book, China's Guilded Age is a great short read
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u/SandersDelendaEst Austan Goolsbee Dec 03 '24
The preferable outcome of a Trump administration is that it’s merely corrupt. In all seriousness
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u/cc_rider2 Dec 03 '24
This is the type of circle jerk I expect on r/news but not here
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u/lumpialarry Dec 03 '24
If it was as easy as bribing why didn't all the steel using companies bride trump to get rid of tariffs since there are more of them than steel producing companies?
I kind of wish Trump was that type of corrupt. He's more of a true believer sort of corrupt.
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u/Embarrassed_Jerk Immanuel Kant Dec 03 '24
Because there's no lobby of companies that use steel. He targets specifically entities that can bribe him. Be it country or company.
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u/lumpialarry Dec 03 '24
The API (American Petroleum Institute) alone is represents an industry 3 times the size of the US steel Industry and has spoken out against tariffs. National Association of Manufacturers (valued at $2.25 a year) has also spoken out against tariffs.
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u/Embarrassed_Jerk Immanuel Kant Dec 03 '24
Spoken out but not bribed yet. Notice how he reduced the Chinese tarrifs to 10% ?
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Dec 03 '24
[deleted]
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u/RonenSalathe Jeff Bezos Dec 03 '24
The alternative was saying the exact same thing in this instance
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u/KatamariRedamancy Dec 03 '24
Normie here. Is the controversy over this 100% because of the names of the companies?
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u/Lol-I-Wear-Hats Alfred Marshall Dec 03 '24
This is the dumbest piece of industrial policy ever
The worst thing is that if it was “Fuji Steel” buying “Carnegie Steel” there wouldn’t be nearly as much attention
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u/sponsoredcommenter Dec 03 '24
I really love how Washington regularly embraces in good faith bipartisan unison, but only for the most idiotic causes you've heard of.