AOC Tells Democrats She’s Willing to Give Up Her Rebel Ways

[u/frust_grad]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/one-time-rebel-alexandria-ocasio-140942927.html

[u/burnaboy_233]

She is acknowledging the reality. Progressives are much smaller group of voters in the electorate. It might be a sign of changing strategies. Progressive are probably going to move a bit closer to where democrats are and likely going to be less vocal so that the other side cannot paint the whole party as extremists. That’s likely what’s happening here

[u/ClassicStorm → u/burnaboy_233]

Doesn't matter if the elected reps shut their mouths, there are enough nuts with megaphones on the internet to do the job. Moderating positions is a good sign, but dems need more than that. We need multiple sister souljah moments.

The party line needs to be about a simple litmus test: we support policies that help the middle class. Anything else is a distraction. When a reporter asks about some bullshit niche culture war issue dems need to attack them as trying to divide and distract from what matters, and that's helping everyday Americans. Don't take the bait, let people have their tantrums online, and don't kiss the ring.

[u/seattlenostalgia → u/ClassicStorm]

we support policies that help the middle class. Anything else is a distraction.

And importantly, Democrats need to establish a track record of doing so consistently.

Don’t pull a Kamala Harris and spend 10 years promoting far left culture war policy positions, and then suddenly pretend to abandon all those positions within a few weeks without any explanation why. People will see through that in an instant.

[u/eldenpotato → u/seattlenostalgia]

Exactly this. But since the election, progressives have developed a collective amnesia of the last decade. They think Kamala’s campaign existed in a vacuum

[u/AdmiralAkbar1 → u/eldenpotato]

They're unburdened by what has been.

[u/Tw1tcHy → u/eldenpotato]

This is so fucking frustratingly true. You see it on Reddit and elsewhere all the time, dumb bullshit like “Kamala ran a centrist campaign with Liz Cheney, therefore voters don’t want moderation, they obviously want Progressive policies!”

This meme from the PoliticalCompassMemes really brings it all home lmao

[u/Tokena → u/Tw1tcHy]

• Censor anime tities.

This one was really going too far.

The Dems need to throw the Progs into the sea!

[u/NefariousRapscallion → u/seattlenostalgia]

I keep saying this and getting attacked for it. Kamal's policies of mortgage down payment assistance and business start-up grants would have been so helpful for many working class people. However the most armor piercing ammo the right had against her were old clips of her pandering to the far left prior to the 2016 election.

[u/tonyis → u/NefariousRapscallion]

Most of those clips were a lot more recent than pre-2016. The likely most damaging one, the inmate sex change one, was 2019.

[u/NefariousRapscallion → u/tonyis]

Yeah. I didn't know when that was from. I didn't even believe it was real until my conservative coworkers rubbed it in my face.

[u/vreddy92 → u/tonyis]

It still blows my mind that the trans issue is so entrenched and repulsive to people that it is somehow a reason for people to ignore literally every other issue when making a voting decision.

[u/MikeyMike01 → u/vreddy92]

It blows my mind that Democrats are willing to burn huge amounts of political capital on it.

[u/vreddy92 → u/MikeyMike01]

On what? She was asked "should inmates have access to sex changes" and she said basically that it's healthcare and inmates should have access to healthcare.

What was she supposed to do? Say "no, fuck them"?

[u/likeitis121 → u/NefariousRapscallion]

Disagree. The mortgage downpayment assistance completely contradicted what the Fed is attempting to do, and will prolong the period in which it takes for the housing market to come back into alignment with what wages are. Jumping in with a policy like that will force the housing market to permanently require that policy, because the readjustment will never happen.

[u/The_GOATest1 → u/likeitis121]

Short of a crash, there is no readjustment for housing in the foreseeable future unless we really pick up the pace on building.

[u/Dilated2020 → u/NefariousRapscallion]

Kamal’s policies of mortgage down payment assistance and business start-up grants would have been so helpful for many working class people.

Mortgage down payment assistance would’ve simply caused more inflation in the housing market as sellers raised the prices based on the down payment assistance.

Furthermore, we are in a period of high inflation and the government pumping more money into the economy is throwing gasoline on the fire.

I keep saying this and getting attacked for it.

I hope the above explains why.

[u/NefariousRapscallion → u/Dilated2020]

Any data to back that up? Do you know how much money we're talking about and where it would come from?

That's not how home sales work. There like "oh you qualify for down payment assistance? Now the price is $25k more!" But then you can't make the payment so no home is sold that day. The percentage of people who would receive these grants isn't enough to significantly affect inflation. Funding can be transferred from other less important already existing grant programs without printing anything. More people owning homes is a net positive for that community.

[u/DialMMM → u/NefariousRapscallion]

Any data to back that up?

You are asking that poster for data to support the concept of increasing demand artificially leading to increasing prices? Do I have that right?

[u/NefariousRapscallion → u/DialMMM]

I'm asking for proof we would have printed enough money for those programs to cause more inflation.

Builders build what they can sell and price them to move. If they price gouge past the point of the program they won't sell.

[u/Liquor_n_cheezebrgrs → u/NefariousRapscallion]

Hi there. I spent a decade of my career in residential real estate, the overwhelming majority of which was representing first time home buyers purchase a home. Coming up with earnest money and down payment is the largest limiting factor to getting to the closing table for buyers. Additionally you can't look at real estate as a a dynamic asset where supply is dictated by responsive short cycle production to keep up with demand. My home was built in 1934, the builders are long dead, and the price it was listed for was determined by the 81 year old woman who lived in it for the 36 years prior to my purchase of it. Builders do not set market pricing, the sell their new construction for the max amount the market allows. Those are two very different things.

Right now home prices are skyrocketing for myriad reasons, but the core issue is scarcity. Scarcity is allowing homeowners, not builders, to list their homes for peak value and then regularly selling said home ABOVE list price due to multiple offers coming in before the sellers have a chance to get the photos up. First time purchasing assistance to a young couple with a $170k+ combined income who can absolutely afford the mortgage payments of a $300k house, but may not be competitive in purchasing that house due to their inability to get their hands on $30-60k for a down payment will do nothing but allow sellers to charge more for homes that will become even more scarce due to an influence of additional qualified buyers. Allowing more people to enter into an imbalanced market where supply lags far behind demand would be like standing over a bonfire and spraying it with gasoline. It would absolutely cause home prices to increase further, would have nothing to do with builders setting prices to high (the market dictates new construction prices), and would likely predominantly be taken advantage of by college educated upper middle class 25-35 year olds who are not even cash poor, but just lack the pile of cash necessary to be competitive with people in the 40s and 50s who can easily pull down payment money together or corporate trusts who are purchasing residential real estate in cash to diversify their holdings. First time home buyer assistance is a premier example of short sighted liberal social programs that make you feel all warm and fuzzy until you peal back the top layer of the program to uncover nothing but malignant infection below.

Apologies for typos I'm on a phone but I was compelled.

[u/NefariousRapscallion → u/Liquor_n_cheezebrgrs]

I currently work in the industry and regularly deal with the biggest builders in the nation. Prices aren't skyrocketing, that dust is pretty well settled. That was an unprecedented event that led to skyrocketing prices. Builders are sitting on hundreds of thousands already developed lots. They only build what is projected to sale without sitting empty for too long. I personally see them fluctuate the pacing at which they build. Price is determined by demand and supply can be controlled.

How many fifty year olds did you deal with as first time home buyers? Those people got in when the market was healthy and use their equity to trade up to something bigger. The program was exactly for younger working class people who are paying rent at mortgage prices to buy a modest, no frills home. They aren't competing with established older buyers for the same house.

Renters are already paying the mortgage for people who had cash to invest before things got tight. Cutting the middle man and having those renters own isn't going to wreck the economy.

[u/dm7b5isbi → u/seattlenostalgia]

what far left culture war policy positions did she support? All I can think is the one clip where she said would support inmates getting trans affirming care, but I don't think that makes much of a hardcore far left culture warrior

[u/Necessary_Switch8521 → u/seattlenostalgia]

I'm seriously not familiar with kamala doing this? If anything she did a bunch of trad dem stuff for years and then supported ONE thing that was leftist that the right pushed. I think she had a gaff about funding trans stuff. Genuinely kamala has always been semi regal in what she supported. Im willing to be proven wrong tho .

[u/MrSacamano → u/Necessary_Switch8521]

GovTrack ranked her as the 2nd most politically left senator in the 116th Congress, and 4th most in the 115th: Report Cards for 2020 - Ideology Score - All Senators - GovTrack.us

[u/Affectionate-Wall870 → u/ClassicStorm]

I think a big part of their problem is political operatives that believe they can message themselves out of any situation, voters have the memory of a goldfish. They really believe all that pop culture(house of cards, veep, west wing) bullshit. Voters are making complex decisions, and can tell when you are feeding them a line of bullshit.

[u/Later_Bag879 → u/Affectionate-Wall870]

Interesting that the same voters fell for Trump’s bullshit. Can we just acknowledge that people wanted what they wanted?! They didn’t hold Trump to the standards they held Kamala to

[u/Houjix → u/Later_Bag879]

ABC had to pay him 15 million, make a public apology, and pay his legal fees

[u/Later_Bag879 → u/Houjix]

Because they called him rapist instead of a sexual assaulted. A technicality.

[u/Houjix → u/Later_Bag879]

Carroll Is the one that said he stuck his penis inside and raped her

”He opens the overcoat, unzips his pants, and, forcing his fingers around my private area, thrusts his penis halfway — or completely, I’m not certain — inside me.”

[u/Later_Bag879 → u/Houjix]

Still trying to figure out the relevance or your point. ABC apologized for using a wrong term. He was indeed found liable by a jury for sexual assault. So what’s your point?

[u/Houjix → u/Later_Bag879]

Wait, the jury didn’t believe her story about him unzipping his pants and sticking his penis inside of her?

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/ClassicStorm]

It seems like midwestern dems are being elevated and set to take the mantle. This signals to me that the party is ready to become more populist. We will see what that looks like next year in the VA and NJ off year elections

[u/cplusplusreference → u/burnaboy_233]

I’m not too sure. The democrat party is not in a good light at all. I look at Fetterman that campaigned on being a moderate and when he’s shown he’s a moderate, he gets attacked all the time from the left. I think it’s going to take a bit for people to give them a second chance to be honest. I admit I can be biased but over the past years it’s shown how much they were the cause of dividing people and lying to people. The MSM is now associated with the democrats and the MSM is also crumbling. Just look at what happened with ABC defaming about Trump. That’s just one of multiple news networks that people don’t trust anymore because of their actions. And it’s been apparent that the MSM somehow overwhelmingly supported the democrats.

[u/MikeyMike01 → u/cplusplusreference]

look at Fetterman that campaigned on being a moderate and when he’s shown he’s a moderate, he gets attacked all the time from the left.

True, but Democrats need to do tell the left to go pound sand. Form a centrist coalition. You’ll do worse in NYC and California, but better in elections that matter.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/cplusplusreference]

I’ve been looking at who’s in the running for DNC and a lot of there picks are from the Midwest. At this point, the left has lost a a lot of influence. The media may bring them up but they have lost a lot of credibility even among democrats who were the ones who trusted them. Right now the public does not have much love for there politicians, we are likely going to see them swing back to democrats again. The last few cycles shows that we are increasingly becoming more unstable as people are fed up with our politicians, I mean look down ballot. Democrats actually did much better down ballot and kept held up much better then once thought. You would expect Republicans to make significant gains but only having some small gains here and there and losing in other areas doesn’t seem like the public is against democrats and really just against certain politicians

[u/cplusplusreference → u/burnaboy_233]

Don’t get me wrong. I think moderate Democrats are the way to go if the party wants to survive. But I’m sorry to say that the democrats lost a lot more than you are making out. They almost lost NJ and NY had a smaller spread than Texas. It’s shown that now NJ and Virginia are potential swing states. That used to be unheard of

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/cplusplusreference]

Well we have inflation and the vibes around the economy is bad so that should be expected. If Biden ran then they would’ve lost everything so Kamala stepping in and making it more competitive says more. The theme here is the economy was the reason Dems lost but yet, many Dems still won in seats Trump won. I’d wager, if prices increase under Trump then we can see huge shifts to Dems

[u/cplusplusreference → u/burnaboy_233]

I don’t agree with you. I think blaming the economy is just an excuse from the democrats. There were plenty of reasons people are fed up with the democrats that aren’t just economical. What about immigrations? Covid response? The ministry of truth that this administration tried creating? What about the censorship that this administration tried doing online? What about forcing our kids to do online school instead of in person classes? There is plenty to blame the democrats about. Just saying it’s the economy I think is being ignorant.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/cplusplusreference]

Much of there losses came from voters who are low propensity voters. Meaning these voters do not watch much news nor do they pay attention. So the stuff we talk about here is not what they talk about. Low propensity voters almost always vote based on the economy. Trying to say otherwise means you yourself live in a bubble. A lot of the stuff you’re bringing up is only things right wing people who listen to news will see. I mean the kids staying home from school thing, it’s been 4 years that’s not an issue now. Anything with Covid is now forgotten by a large. The ministry of truth, I mean I don’t remember it and I’m a political junkie so low propensity voters likely never heard of it either. Trying to say it’s not the economy when polls says otherwise is showing your bias

[u/cplusplusreference → u/burnaboy_233]

I hate to break it to you but you are absolutely wrong about what I’m assuming you meant kids not being allowed to attend school in person. Then you said that was 4 years ago? Then that people forgot Covid? It’s a lot to unpack. Everything you said that wasn’t true In your message was actually true in real life.

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/burnaboy_233]

Good point.

[u/MissedFieldGoal → u/ClassicStorm]

Plus a lot of issues are solved by helping the middle class. A more favorable economy helps increase birthrates, which in turn increases revenue for future social security and other benefits. Encouraging entrepreneurial environments for the middle classes helps create jobs, which provides a more robust economy and increases future revenue. And more…

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/MissedFieldGoal]

Birth rate is a cultural issue whether the economy does good or bad does not change the birth rates

[u/Neglectful_Stranger → u/MissedFieldGoal]

iirc the Nordic countries tried to encourage birth rates with stipends and the like, and it didn't really catch on. So I don't think declining birthrates are linked to economic results.

[u/tertiaryAntagonist → u/ClassicStorm]

I've talked about this online before, but ultimately most mainstream social media services banning conservatives and right leaning opinions has not wound up to their benefit.

Like, every single day I see on reddit and facebook these deranged leftist and progressive opinions. I understand that the democrats may not share all of these ideals, but the sheer volume of this propaganda I see is offputting and disgusting. I am positive conservatives also likely have some vile stuff, but I never see it on facebook and I never see it on reddit.

Inb4 someone mentions twitter, while it is the case that twitter is NOW right wing it ignores that fact that:

1. This was not true for many many many years
2. Usership has fallen off a cliff ever since Musk took it over.

[u/blublub1243 → u/tertiaryAntagonist]

Is there any data to back up twitter falling off a cliff in terms of user numbers? Because I don't use the site much, but I haven't really seen that extreme drop in engagement. A couple extra salty lefties making Bluesky account does not an actual collapse make.

As far as it's political leanings I don't think twitter is all that far right. Compared to reddit or old twitter, sure, but those are or were engineered to artificially boost progressive voices. The views I generally see being popular on there seem to be fairly in line with where the middle ground seems to be at. That's pretty far to the right of progressives on several key issues, but with how progressives seem to be crashing in popularity and with how the country just elected the progressive equivalent of the antichrist to the presidency I'd say that's moreso on progressives being way out of touch than twitter.

That said, I broadly agree that removing the right has done long term harm to progressives. It's put their more out there views on display while forcing the right to greatly moderate themselves for fear of bans, making them seem extremely reasonable by comparison. Imo this is generally an issue with censorship, it doesn't actually remove extremists, it just exerts an evolutionary pressure on them that not only allows them to survive but also thrive as it effectively forces them to make themselves look presentable to the masses.

[u/pingveno → u/blublub1243]

Not a cliff, but the numbers I am seeing put the highest point in 2022 and a drop off of around 8% since then. I am sure it depends a lot on methodology, of course. Also, Twitter doesn't publish statistics, so researchers have to estimate from outside.

In terms of ad revenue, that is where Twitter has seen a significant decline, something like half. It sounds like advertisers just don't want their ads appearing next to Elon's (selective) free speech content.

[u/blublub1243 → u/pingveno]

Ad revenue is definitely gone. Don't think Musk cares though, buying twitter arguably let him buy a lot of influence that he can now profit off of in other ways, such as winning the election. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if advertisers come back, there is a cultural shift to the right going on that was imo accelerated by the outcome and particularly demographic data of this election (young guys are a major source of revenue for a lot of companies, and look at who they voted for) and corporations tend to go where the money is. The risk associated with your ad being shown next to some far right activist may end up being less and less relevant compared to the benefits of being able to advertise to a generally more right leaning audience.

[u/tertiaryAntagonist → u/blublub1243]

https://mashable.com/article/x-twitter-daily-active-users-mobile-app-decline-report-x-disputes

Down 25% allegedly. I don't really use it so I can't personally attest to this. I have a handful of friends who are hard core twitter users and only one of them quit over Musk so anecdotally a drop by a quarter sounds right to me....

[u/blublub1243 → u/tertiaryAntagonist]

That seems pretty high to me, and as the article points out that data does have plenty of its own issues, namely it just being an estimation of a single data point by one research group without to my understanding access to any primary data.

That said, even if it had declined by 25% I don't think that would be enough to make it fade into irrelevancy. Unhinged stuff on twitter will still be seen by a ton of people, it's not some niche site now.

[u/tertiaryAntagonist → u/blublub1243]

Well somehow I magically manage to never see right wing twitter content. This is likely because any catchy right wing point that gets popular on twitter will be removed from reddit or facebook if it starts catching on too much.

[u/blublub1243 → u/tertiaryAntagonist]

Well... fair.

[u/StripedSteel → u/ClassicStorm]

It's so weird that this shift has happened since Obama came into office. The Republican party used to be the champion of the middle class, and Democrats used to be flag bearer of the working class.

[u/thedisciple516 → u/StripedSteel]

It's not weird or surprising at all. Obama was the first President who didn't think that America was anything special. Or any sort of shining city upon a hill.

Obama came in with the message that America wasn't anything that great, or at the very least wasn't as great as the drooling infantile patriots thought it was. Progressives thought this was a breath of fresh air but at least half this country saw this as a dangerous threat.

In the exact same way that Trump encouraged the "alt-right" to voice their previously taboo opinions, Obama encouraged America-critical activists to voice theirs. The Obama years on the internet and in the New York Times and in Academia and and and etc. etc. etc. were non stop 'Murica Bad.

For the next 8 years only America's flaws were highlighted in the media, by academia, and on the internet (on which the left had a strangle hold on all three). Healthcare, guns, racism... That's how America was defined. Never did we hear about the advantages that living in the USA provided (by far the highest after tax Median income in the world adjusted for PPP and social transfers).

It got way out of hand and the result was MAGA and Trump. The backlash was inevitable. Just like if Trump goes too far right in the next 4 years there will be a leftward swing. There is an ill defined equillibrium that Americans are comfortable with and politicians can't stray too far from it.

[u/Punkiedoodle0 → u/thedisciple516]

LISTEN TO BERNIE SANDERS! i still believe he could have beaten trump if hilary wasnt a brat. Twice he was leading and they chose someone else let us choose!

[u/StripedSteel → u/thedisciple516]

I understand what you're trying to say and agree with about 20% of your premise, but you come across as arrogant when you reduce people who are proud of their country as "drooling infantile patriots." It's that same false sense of superiority that halted all Democratic momentum in 2008 and led to the Tea Party's founding by 2010.

It is refreshing that you agree that Democrats' actions during 2012 were directly responsible for MAGA, though.

[u/thedisciple516 → u/StripedSteel]

you reduce people who are proud of their country as "drooling infantile patriots.

then you totally miscomprehended (hope that's a real word) what I was saying. The intellectual elitists viewed them as drooling idiots not me. Was describing how they viewed them.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/StripedSteel]

It’s because of cultural politics the truth is the working class is more conservative than people realize Democrats pretty much have to moderate their social stances in particular guns, border, security, LGBTQ issues and some of the feminist rhetoric

[u/kaatmbmjj → u/burnaboy_233]

Exactly. The Dems also fail to realize how local politics hurts them nationally -- think school board, city council, etc.

The Dems in the house and senate can run to the middle all they want but if "Debra Hyphenated-Surname, She/Her" on the local school board signs off on a trans drag show at the middle school, local voters will subconsciously hold that against them in bigger elections. I've seen it first hand.

I honestly don't know what moderate Democrats can do to reel this in. The far-left is very politically active, and enters in a lot of local races.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/kaatmbmjj]

Well, yea. A lot of stuff that gets stuck to national dems come from local offices. Often times in deep blue states to. But on the other end of the spectrum, we see democrats in red areas win also. So the best option is to follow what they are doing

[u/478656428 → u/kaatmbmjj]

I honestly don't know what moderate Democrats can do to reel this in.

The same thing the Republicans should do: boot the crazies. Stop supporting loonies and bad candidates just because they have a D or an R next to their name. Prioritize good policy and accountability over party affiliation.

But we all know they won't do that. Either side.

[u/HeatDeathIsCool → u/kaatmbmjj]

The Dems in the house and senate can run to the middle all they want but if "Debra Hyphenated-Surname, She/Her" on the local school board signs off on a trans drag show at the middle school,

But if conservatives do similar things with electing Moms4Liberty candidates on school boards, there's no blowback to Republicans at the state and federal level. This tells me that Democrats have a propaganda problem, and trying to chase down every single crazy at the local level is a goose chase Republicans would be all too glad to see them go on.

[u/argent_adept → u/kaatmbmjj]

It’s so weird to me that left-wing people with crazy views (who probably hate Biden and Harris with a passion for some perceived purity test failure) are just accepted to define the whole of the Democratic Party. Meanwhile, right-wing people who think all liberals are trying to molest their kids and harvest their adrenochrome are somehow separate from the Republican Party image.

[u/swimming_singularity → u/burnaboy_233]

I've been trying to say to my fellow Dems to give up the gun battle. Kids were shot in a school just a couple of days ago, nothing changes nor will it as far as guns go. It isn't changing voter minds, or else it would have already.

This Supreme Court, which will be conservative for the next decade+, will stop any gun legislation. The gun issue is the Mount Everest for Dems and they are not equipped to climb it. It's just not going to happen in this situation. Win some seats, win the White House, get a majority like Republicans have now, and then maybe reconsider taking up that flag again. But right now, drop it and move on to more productive roads.

Same with the border. Dems got trampled by it, because immigrants were being shipped to NYC and put up in 500 dollar a night hotels. This.is.not.a.solution. It was a panic reaction to keep people off the streets, not a long term answer, and they had no answer after it. All Dems have to do is say "we love immigrants that are legal", and then uphold the laws. Republicans claimed that response and it was the right one.

Just bad decisions, like those in charge have no ability to read the room at all. It's like Beto yelling about coming into citizens houses to take their guns, just absolutely tone deaf. And that is the common theme with Dems, just an inability to know what will sink or float.

[u/The-Wizard-of_Odd → u/swimming_singularity]

get a majority like Republicans have now, and then maybe reconsider taking up that flag again.

And that's why I don't trust political parties.

[u/TexasPeteEnthusiast → u/StripedSteel]

Now the Democrats are the party of the outrageously wealthy, and the extremely poor, and Republicans get the bulk of the middle.

[u/The_GOATest1 → u/TexasPeteEnthusiast]

Statistically that makes no sense

[u/PolDiscAlts → u/StripedSteel]

If you look at policy the Democrats are by far the better option for the middle class, but Fox has proven that people don't look at policy when they walk in the booth. They look at their emotions and it's always easier to fix blame than problems. As long as the Dems are advocating real world solutions they will lose because real solutions by definition take time to implement.

[u/flat6NA → u/PolDiscAlts]

Middle class maybe, but how about the non college educated working class? Student loan forgiveness only works for one of these, similar with home down payment assistance. Great for those close to buying a home, but not for those that are renting and just getting by, not to mention race based start up business assistance. Everything seems gimmicky helping select groups that aren’t the working class.

[u/PolDiscAlts → u/flat6NA]

The lie that there are multiple bottom classes is one of the best that the GOP ever sold. If you have to go to work to keep yourself fed and with a place to sleep, you're working class. End of story. People want to pretend that there is some wild difference between a welder making $30/hr and an engineer making $90 and all the time the people who don't work a minute of their lives and just live on the interest from their family money are laughing fit to burst before they head off to give a 'gratuity' to their local judge to be above the law.

[u/flat6NA → u/PolDiscAlts]

Interesting you didn’t reply to u/StripedSteel who (rightfully) noted the class disparity.

How high does that “bottom class” go since the Biden administration promised not to increase taxes on families making $400K/year and under?

And you think the welder wants to help pay off the engineers student loans while the engineer is making three times as much as the welder?

Too funny.

[u/TrevorsPirateGun → u/PolDiscAlts]

They absolutely are not. Go read some of the Canada subs. See what is currently happening with Trudeau

[u/softnmushy → u/TrevorsPirateGun]

Amazing. I had no idea that the US Democrat party controlled Canada's government. /s

[u/TrevorsPirateGun → u/softnmushy]

If a person doesn't understand that they share the same policies, maybe it would behoove such person to refrain from commenting in political subs? Just a rhetorical thought

[u/Extra_Better → u/softnmushy]

Ok, look at the results of many terrible policies in California instead. They have near total control there.

[u/smpennst16 → u/Extra_Better]

What about conditions in poorer red states with high crime, low education, life expectancy and etc. Oklahoma and other for examples. There are tons of issues with deep red states similar to deep blue states.

[u/StripedSteel → u/PolDiscAlts]

Democrats are not by far the better option for the middle class. They have historically been the party for more taxes on the middle class, as they try to subsidize social programs to support the lower class by taxing the middle class.

[u/ScreenTricky4257 → u/ClassicStorm]

More than that, if they could just say, "It's OK that there are two sides of the debate. The Republicans, even the Trump Republicans may not have the same values as you, but they're still Americans," it would go a long way to getting people to think of them as actually caring about the people who didn't vote for them in this election.

[u/ClassicStorm → u/ScreenTricky4257]

This is also a distraction. Dems should stay away from talking about people who don't vote for them. It doesn't win votes to be mean or nice.

[u/Later_Bag879 → u/ScreenTricky4257]

Hmm such double standards in this thread. The other side does way worse in demoniz democrats. “Radical leftists, libtardsetc”. I actually think democrats, at least the mainline ones are too polite for the new MAGArepublicans

[u/MrMrLavaLava → u/ClassicStorm]

They need to support policies that help the *working class. That’s who they’ve been losing. But it’s not even that because t their policies are generally more helpful/supportive to people with less money. They have to be willing to engage more in class based politics and being outwardly adversarial to big money special interests people generally think have too much influence over the system.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/MrMrLavaLava]

The problem for Democrats is their social issues. Democrats have moved much farther to the left on social issues than where the public actually is the American public isn’t Christian nationalist they’re much more secular but on some social issues, they are pretty uncomfortable, such as trans, woman, and woman sports. Also, some of the language that Democrats use is language at the American public does not use in reality. Trump talks more like how the American public talks.

[u/awkwardlythin → u/burnaboy_233]

These culture war issues are here because of the propaganda wing of the republican party. They have dominated media and push these issues 24/7. Most people have never even met a trans person in their life but they are going to sleep hating them. This is how they won the election.

[u/Houjix → u/awkwardlythin]

Stop giving them a megaphone. It’s like trying to normalize anorexics people don’t like that. I blame corporate CEOs like budlight, jaguar, and the Olympics to name a few trying to cash in on manufactured trends

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/burnaboy_233]

I hear you but the “Culture War” was started by the GOP.,it was great bait for the Dems. Dems didn’t bring up Trans folk in sports. The GOP did. Also, does anyone really care that much? It shouldn’t be a hot button issues as 99.9% of Americans are wholly unaffected by anything relating to Transgender anything. My point is simply that Dems took the bait and focused so much of their attention on issues that don’t affect the public. They played right into the trap. How dumb it is to not focus on the issues that everyone faces.

[u/Interferon-Sigma → u/PromiscuousT-Rex]

I have met like two trans people (that I know of) irl I don't understand how anybody can feel strongly enough to get mad at them. Most of these small town folks probably haven't met a trans person in their lives

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/Interferon-Sigma]

It’s not just small town folks, a lot of metropolitan folks have similar if not worse views. Trans people in the minority communities face much more hostile environments from there communities. Hence why suicide rates are much higher among black and Latino transexuals

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/burnaboy_233]

I agree and it’s absolutely awful. Keep in mind though that my comment was geared toward right wing outrage over participation in athletics and athletics alone. I 100% support the LGBTQ community. The suicide rates are absolutely terrible and I fully support any and every effort made to curb the loss of life.

[u/Wallter139 → u/Interferon-Sigma]

I'm from a small town and I know multiple transpeople. They're not anyone to be afraid of — but I look outwards, and I see a lot of social changes I am afraid of.

Male and female are pretty basic distinction for me, and it feels like it's being dismantled in front of me. National gyms have gender-neutral locker room policies; chools are teaching students that "gender identity" is the determiner of gender, and there is a continuing push to give gender presentation a protected status; there are high-profile examples of transwomen in sports.

All this really seems to imply that the old (and formerly ubiquitous) understanding of gender is being swept away in favor of a more vague understanding (even trans people often disagree on what exactly transness is) that is pushed by, seemingly, academics and activists.

[u/awkwardlythin → u/Interferon-Sigma]

Propaganda. Musk benefited heavily from buying twitter to propagandize for the right wing. Now he can pollute to his hearts content because he has a lot of money.

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/Interferon-Sigma]

Agreed!

[u/MrMrLavaLava → u/burnaboy_233]

The focus on social issues stem from the establishment. Hilary went after Bernie saying he wasn’t focused enough on social issues. The top priorities of the squad have been things like Medicare for all, building labor power, raising the minimum wage, etc. it’s just that the social issues are the only things the party lets resonate because it doesn’t threaten their donors.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/MrMrLavaLava]

Well thats the big problem, democrats need to elevate there economic messages instead of social policies. Once social policies become the main talking point then things get bad for Dems. We see there economic messages always wins on ballot initiatives.

[u/MrMrLavaLava → u/burnaboy_233]

That’s kind of shifting the goal posts. Are we talking about AOC/progressives, or are we talking the party establishment? AOC isn’t the one standing in the way of economic messaging. And now the corporatists are trying to shift blame for its loss to the left flank as if progressives are why they couldn’t connect, ignoring things like AOC and Trump sharing a lot of voters.

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/burnaboy_233]

I agree. That said, I firmly believe that Dems are responding to the Right’s outrage at the mere existence of people that are different. I also agree that Dems need to focus on income inequality and I’ll add price gouging as well.

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/MrMrLavaLava]

Agreed.

[u/karl-tanner → u/ClassicStorm]

It's more than this. Elected officials who pushed any of the far left crap need to be replaced by rational people who are willing to push back on the insanity. The party is still full of the kinds of people who killed Al Frankens's career and many many other such stains over the last 8 years. Some are very senior senators. They will pay for it over the next 10 years. They have completely abandoned people like vets, the elderly and the actual middle class.

[u/Affectionate-Wall870 → u/karl-tanner]

Al Franken’s career was killed because his scandal was a clear cut lesson in consent. Which was needed.

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/karl-tanner]

Please define “Far left crap”.

[u/Sideswipe0009 → u/PromiscuousT-Rex]

Probably most stuff for progressives regarding social issues.

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/Sideswipe0009]

Like what?

[u/wldmn13 → u/PromiscuousT-Rex]

Find some first time Trump voters and ask them.

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/wldmn13]

Or one of you could just answer the question instead of dodging it.

[u/Lurking_Chronicler_2 → u/PromiscuousT-Rex]

Translation: Throw trans people under the bus to appease “moderates” who find them icky.

I’m tired of pretending that people complaining about “progressive overreach” mean anything else.

Okay, I guess that’s not necessarily true. I guess some might also want black people & women to stop complaining about racism and sexism and be grateful for what they already have.

EDIT: Before anyone accuses me of being hyperbolic. I don’t even necessarily disagree with the assessments of those users, but let’s be honest about what exactly the calls for “progressive moderation” so often bandied about for this sub entail.

It’s a call for Democrats to double-down on Respectability Politics- and in the age of Trump, a lot of us dirty Lefties are pretty cynical about this sort of rhetoric.

[u/[deleted] → u/PromiscuousT-Rex]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/jermleeds → u/[deleted]]

Perfectly reasonable ask people what they specifically mean.

[u/PromiscuousT-Rex → u/[deleted]]

Nope. Just looking to clear up any ambiguities. I don’t feel as though asking for clarification is a bad thing.

[u/ModPolBot → u/[deleted]]

This message serves as a warning that your comment is in violation of Law 0:

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[u/BlazingSpaceGhost → u/ClassicStorm]

What about policies that help the working poor? I am all for helping the middle class but frankly they don't need nearly as much help.

[u/netowi → u/BlazingSpaceGhost]

Most people see themselves aspirationally: even if they're technically "the working poor," they won't see themselves that way. So when you say, "we're going to support the working poor," basically everyone assumes that you're talking about people poorer than themselves, and they get annoyed at the idea that you're going to take from them and give it to someone else.

[u/BlazingSpaceGhost → u/netowi]

That's true many people call themselves middle class but really aren't. Honestly I don't even believe in the middle class you have two classes the working class and the ownership class. If you have to work for money, regardless of what you do, then you are working class. If you earn your money through stocks, investments, and property then you are the ownership class.

However the American electorate is not ready for that kind of reframing. Call it whatever you want as long as it helps workers.

[u/The-Wizard-of_Odd → u/BlazingSpaceGhost]

No, the electorate isn't ready, actually I suspect that only about 6 people are ready for that.

I know a lot of people that meet your definition of working clas that would not and should not be close to being defined as such

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/BlazingSpaceGhost]

Fixes to the healthcare system can go the long way a lot of the wage stagnation is due to our increasing healthcare cost, and health insurances that businesses have to pay for. An actual policy for housing affordability. Maybe advocate more for trade schools and investing, more money into skill development for the public.

[u/Money-Monkey → u/burnaboy_233]

Maybe we can get the current government run single payer system to function properly. The VA has been a complete shit show over the past decade. We even had Bernie as the chairman of the veterans committee and they had a massive waitlist scandal where veterans died after being placed on secret waitlists.

If we can’t avoid waitlists and excessive deaths with our current VA single payer healthcare system why should we expand that to the entire country?

[u/eldenpotato → u/BlazingSpaceGhost]

I imagine they need even more help.

[u/ImperialxWarlord → u/ClassicStorm]

Amen to this!

[u/darklordbridgeboy → u/ClassicStorm]

This

[u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd → u/burnaboy_233]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they call her a “traitor” to the Progressive cause… then again, many of the most hard left-wing have been actively making plans to emigrate from USA to the EU, if they have the means to do so.

Funny thing is… the EU itself is also shifting rightward.

[u/capnwally14 → u/burnaboy_233]

There’s like a zero percent chance I’d ever vote for aoc as a moderate

I think it’s a losing strategy to pretend to be someone you’re not

[u/Cuddlyaxe → u/capnwally14]

There's a difference between a moderate and a pragmatic progressive

A lot of rank and file progressives seem to unironically prefer losing with purity to incremental progress towards their goals. See: Gaza

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/capnwally14]

I mean we see politicians switch parties and still win. So maybe not, but what I see is that AOC needs to moderate her views and stop trying to make the party more left wing. She wants to climb the ranks in the house and making enemies is not going to help there. If she wants to run in the senate then what she was doing would not help

[u/capnwally14 → u/burnaboy_233]

the problem is she'll be asked about previous positions

and either she'll alienate her base by disavowing them
or she'll be mistrusted by the center (e.g. biden saying he was going to be the safe center choice and tacking far left)

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/capnwally14]

I don’t think we will see her run for anything besides higher committee positions.

[u/TrevorsPirateGun → u/burnaboy_233]

Progressive are probably going to move a bit closer to where democrats are

Progressive are probably going to move say things a bit closer to where democrats are (but then do what they want when they get the power)

[u/AwardImmediate720 → u/TrevorsPirateGun]

And thanks to the permanence of content on the internet they won't be believed. Just look at Kamala's campaign for the perfect example. She ran away from her former progressive positions very hard and they still are the main thing that sunk her.

[u/[deleted] → u/AwardImmediate720]

It’s mostly because nobody bought her recently acquired centrism. She was left of Bernie in the senate. She just wasn’t a good candidate and connecting with people is just as important as policy in elections; she failed at that spectacularly.

[u/johnhtman → u/[deleted]]

Yeah she tried to appeal to everyone, and only ended up coming off as inauthentic to everyone.

[u/AwardImmediate720 → u/[deleted]]

And the exact same thing will happen with AOC and every other progressive Dem who tries to pivot to center. It's because their recorded statements are now floating around cyberspace instead of held in the hands of a media oligopoly that will happily obey the demands of the Democratic Party to bury information. So when AOC or any others try to pivot center we'll have the receipts to prove that it's not a real pivot. Selling a pivot will mean a lot more than just going quiet or saying a few weak condemnations. It'll require real action, real votes, things that will actually harm the agenda they're supposedly rejecting.

[u/[deleted] → u/AwardImmediate720]

I always tell AOC fans that they prob need to accept she’s gonna have a terrible time winning a national election. Her political ceiling (federal) I think would be house or senate leadership, only I don’t think she’s a political animal like Pelosi.

She’d be better served gaining influence and power in congress than running a national campaign that would require her convincing people she’s a moderate.

If she doesn’t want to compromise on that, and wants to implement a full-blown progressive agenda (both socially and economically), she needs to do that at the local or state level (mayor of NYC?) Americans said no to those policies on a national level, and with so many blue cities walking back or suffering under those policy choices, it’s a toxic position at the federal level until those policies show consistent positive results in blue cities and states.

I don’t agree with her on a lot of things, but I have a lot of respect for her and think she’s at the very least, a decent human being.

[u/theclacks → u/[deleted]]

I don’t agree with her on a lot of things, but I have a lot of respect for her and think she’s at the very least, a decent human being.

The world would be in a much better state if more people had this kind of outlook.

[u/-s-u-n-s-e-t- → u/AwardImmediate720]

What evidence is there that it's the "main thing that sunk her"? Pretty much all exit polls were showing very clearly people's number 1 concern was the economy. Stuff like trans issues was ranking pretty low.

The main thing that sunk her is that people are unhappy with the current economy and she was straight up running on not doing anything differently than Biden. Doesn't matter whether she's far left or closer to the center, this makes her unelectable in the current political climate. People want change.

[u/MissedFieldGoal → u/TrevorsPirateGun]

That’s the risk is to camouflage their stances with moderate positions and then push for more extreme policies when in power. Same for both the progressives and conservatives too.

[u/yoitsthatoneguy → u/TrevorsPirateGun]

There aren’t enough progressives for them to get power

[u/TrevorsPirateGun → u/yoitsthatoneguy]

Yeah but on paper they will no longer be Progressives and will be just middle of the road dems. Then they will get power and then all hell breaks loose. Bait and switch

[u/latortillablanca → u/TrevorsPirateGun]

All hell, yeah… like medicare for all, affordable housing, foreign policy that leads with diplomacy, people over corporations, tuition free public university, investing in social welfare instead of inexorably feeding the prison industrial complex, pro immigration, green new deal, womens/queer rights.

What a disgusting radical!

[u/seattlenostalgia → u/latortillablanca]

This stuff just sounds like a campaign speech with zero substance.

Affordable housing how? Why have states controlled by progressives for decades (ie New York, California) been unable to establish affordable housing policies yet?

People over corporations meaning.. ??? what exactly? Corporations are made up of people. What are you talking about?

I’m too tired to dissect the rest of your comment.

[u/latortillablanca → u/seattlenostalgia]

Funny you should ask—cos she spells it all out for you. Certainly more than anything kamala or trump did:

https://www.ocasiocortez.com/issues

[u/working-mama- → u/latortillablanca]

Abolish ICE (among other things)? Yeah, general public would love that/ s

[u/latortillablanca → u/working-mama-]

When its broke down this way instead of witb hysteric xenophobia, i think they would yes:

”The IRS estimates that undocumented people pay over $9 billion in withheld payroll taxes annually. Undocumented people continue to work and support this country, and they also suffer from the same economic insecurities as many U.S. citizens today.

During COVID-19, undocumented individuals have also filled so many of the essential jobs that kept this country safe, healthy, and fed during COVID-19. However, undocumented people remain ineligible to participate in several stimulus programs established by the government in response to the novel Coronavirus. Immigrant workers were not only on the frontlines of the essential workforce; millions of immigrants have jobs in industries hardest hit by the pandemic. Absent government relief for the nation’s undocumented people, many will experience siginificant economic hardships that can impact entire communities.

Our nation must recognize our history: immigrants, enslaved peoples, and refugees built this country, but they are treated dishonorably. We all do better when we create a just society that embraces our most vulnerable populations and paves a path to prosperity for all. This is why Alexandria introduced The Embrace Act during her first year in Congress, to help ensure that all persons in need are eligible for the largest programs of the social safety net.”

[u/Rah88sa → u/latortillablanca]

I don’t see how this makes it any better. Sounds like you guys still have some soul searching to do before the next election.

[u/working-mama- → u/latortillablanca]

It’s funny disapproval of illegal immigration equals xenophobia (usually, progressives follow it with accusation of racism). For the record, I am an immigrant. US has one, if not the most, immigrant friendly society in the world.

“Abolish ICE” is an open borders policy. General public will never be in favor of that for a very good reason. No doubt we need changes to the immigration system, and a “guest worker” status for vetted people. But “abolish ICE”, open borders is a very radical concept to me as a moderate. Good luck to AOC with that in any national political contest. Heck, I don’t think she would win her own state.

[u/-s-u-n-s-e-t- → u/latortillablanca]

"Affordable housing" isn't radical policy. Saying billionaires shouldn't exist is.

"People over corporations" isn't radical policy. Proclaiming capitalism is evil is.

"Foreign policy that leads with diplomacy" isn't radical policy. Proclaiming Israel shouldn't exist is.

"Queer rights" isn't radical policy. Pushing people born with a penis to compete in women sports is.

"Social welfare instead of prison" isn't radical policy. Demanding to defund the police is.

"Pro immigration" isn't radical policy. Supporting illegal immigration is.

The far left does go too radical in many areas. And while some ideas resonate with the wider public (healthcare reform, accessible education, social policy in general), unless they moderate their message people will not trust them. Bernie's message of free college and universal healthcare would have been far more palatable to the average primary voter if it wasn't also tied to "billionaires shouldn't exist" and praising Fidel Castro.

[u/latortillablanca → u/-s-u-n-s-e-t-]

All i did was list AOCs actual public policy positions. Yer contorting that through some conflation of headlines and things shes said out of context. But since we are here—there really isnt a need for there to be billionaires when you have kids struggling through food insecurity and lack of education, and those same billionaires are advocating for even less support for social welfare.

[u/-s-u-n-s-e-t- → u/latortillablanca]

list AOCs actual public policy positions

You ignored her radical positions that are extremely unpopular with the electorate. To give you a specific example:

"A small minority of the progressive lawmakers within the Democratic Party including Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez support defunding the police, believing that "Policing in our country is inherently & intentionally racist" and thus have called for police departments to be dismantled.[76][77]"

Her stances on BLM are also widely unpopular, as are the identity politics she is pushing, as is her position on Israel, as are most of her stances really

billionaires

I'm not saying there aren't extreme people who believe in that message. But the fact that the voter just put in power the literal poster child for a rich billionaire, for a second time (and this time winning the popular vote too!) should tell you how popular "billionaires shouldn't exist" is with the electorate. People just don't see rich people as evil, they see them as successful. They don't want them to not exist, they want a chance to be wealthy too.

[u/latortillablanca → u/-s-u-n-s-e-t-]

Yeah so—i didnt “ignore” anything. I gave you her public policy positions. We have decades of systemic racism to back up the idea that policing suffers from… systemic racism. So while i dont think her rallying support for BLM = what shed actually try to implement in terms of policy (classic maga move here i feel gross), i also dont think its that far off the mark just as a conversation point.

I just flat disagree with the billionaire point and thjnk its disingenuous at best the dots yer connecting between the morons, bigots, misogynists, and/or apologists that voted for trump and the concept the an everyman actually wants billionaires to live how they live while the social welfare around tbe working classes crumble.

Also the election was close in terms of popular vote. So while those idiots were voting against their own interests, plenty of the electorate is hip to this issue—in the dirextion AOC is going with it.

[u/-s-u-n-s-e-t- → u/latortillablanca]

I think you misunderstand. I am not trying to convince you that the politics you believe in are wrong. People on the far left are too radical to be convinced of anything, it's pointless to try.

I'm trying to tell you that the politics you believe in simply aren't popular enough to win elections. Maybe you believe strongly that rich people are bad and the police should be defunded, but most people do not. And no amount of petty name-calling the electorate will change that.

I mean, take a look at the topic of this very post, even AOC is trying to distance herself from the radical left.

[u/TrevorsPirateGun → u/latortillablanca]

Go look at Canada. Yes, hell

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/TrevorsPirateGun]

It depends on what’s the political environment and what drove them to power honestly

[u/SANDBOX1108 → u/burnaboy_233]

It would be a front until she got what she wanted. She would go back to being progressive

[u/AwardImmediate720 → u/burnaboy_233]

She was probably told that the redward shift seen in every city, including her home city of NYC, means that she can very easily be primaried out if she doesn't behave from now on.

[u/Cowgoon777 → u/AwardImmediate720]

You think so? She’s famously in the bluest disctrict in the country. Or at least that’s been touted for a few cycles. Maybe another district has surpassed it.

[u/working-mama- → u/Cowgoon777]

The bluest district in the country won’t help her if her own party wanted to get rid of her. For example, they could run and promote another fairly progressive Hispanic but with a harder stance on illegal immigration. She is in majority Hispanic district, with most of these being Puerto Ricans. They don’t love illegal immigration.

[u/Interferon-Sigma → u/working-mama-]

She's very popular in her district and does a good job of working directly with her constituents, I don't see that happening

[u/working-mama- → u/Interferon-Sigma]

You may be right. However, if she doesn’t get along with her party, she will just remain a loud mouth fringe representative without any real power.

[u/StarrrBrite → u/Cowgoon777]

Her district also voted for Trump. Trump is obviously not a traditional Republican, but it shows her district isn't afraid of voting for someone in the R column.

[u/LocalCrackPusher → u/StarrrBrite]

I am a resident of her district and we did not vote for Trump and it wasn't close. It shifted right relative to 2020 but the dem lead was just massive to begin with and too much to overcome.

[u/rationis → u/LocalCrackPusher]

That ignores the fact that many in your district still voted for Trump and AOC. AOC was pretty shocked by it upon finding out and even posted a video about it asking voters to explain themselves lol. It's hard to believe someone would be that ignorant about voters as to think it's as simple as red vs blue, but clearly that's what she thought.

So after having that "come to Jesus" moment, she now knows she can't just do whatever she wants without potentially losing her seat. So now we see her moderating.

[u/wildraft1 → u/AwardImmediate720]

So, beliefs and standards be damned. It's about staying in power? Sad reality, I suppose.

[u/Careful_Farmer_2879 → u/wildraft1]

Only religion goes on blind belief. Politicians are elected to serve the people.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/wildraft1]

Politics is a downstream of culture so if your belief is different from the public good chance you’re likely not gonna stay in office much longer

[u/PolDiscAlts → u/AwardImmediate720]

Don't be silly, she's one of the most famous blue politicians in one of the bluest areas in the country and she's farther to her party's direction. That's not a recipe for a primary.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/AwardImmediate720]

Well that, but it seems like democrats by and large are trying to change everything. The rightward shift was a gut punch to the party, but they had some successes also. I’ve noticed that midwestern democrats profile is growing along with border state democrats. Progressive politicians are getting less vocal it seems. I mean it’s early but it does seem the party is changing and replacing some of its old guard

[u/alinius → u/burnaboy_233]

I expect that will work out well for AOC. I also suspect there are other extremists willing to pick up the mantle for the free publicity.

[u/Mitchell_54 → u/alinius]

other extremists

Is this implying that AOC is an extremist?

[u/alinius → u/Mitchell_54]

Are we not discussing AOC leaving behind her rebellious ways to join the Democratic fold? If her positions are not too extreme for the Dems, then why does she need to stop being a rebel?

[u/Interferon-Sigma → u/alinius]

Because the party establishment is still controlled by the same people that were around 40 years ago. What policy position does AOC hold that is "extremist"?

[u/Lostboy289 → u/Interferon-Sigma]

Abolishing ICE, defunding the police, abolishing nuclear power, eliminating Airplanes and large scale cattle breeding for meat;.....shall I go on?

[u/LFacchin33 → u/Interferon-Sigma]

The DSA explicitly calls for the abolition of property rights.

[u/seattlenostalgia → u/Mitchell_54]

Is she on the extreme end of the American political spectrum?

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/alinius]

Probably, but it depends on what happens within the next few months. If there is backlash against Trump then I’d expect more extremists to come out the woodwork.

[u/MrMrLavaLava → u/burnaboy_233]

This is about the feelings of the caucus of elected representatives, not the feelings of the electorate.

[u/albardha → u/burnaboy_233]

I don’t think this is a change for progressive, but a change for AOC. She is learning to play the game.

[u/burnaboy_233 → u/albardha]

Well, I’ve been reading some stuff from progressive side and there does seem to be some reflections and how to proceed

[u/The-Wizard-of_Odd → u/burnaboy_233]

Their voters do most of the damage already. Thr politicians are just icing on the cake.

Reddit alone damages the progressives brand daily.