r/moderatepolitics • u/EstebanTrabajos • 24d ago
'Kids for Cash' Judge has sentence commuted by President Biden News Article
https://www.wnep.com/article/news/investigations/action-16/kids-for-cash-the-new-crisis/kids-for-cash-judge-has-sentence-commuted-by-president-biden-pennsylvania/523-1be56573-6940-4e45-8daa-5a03abd67464202
u/EstebanTrabajos 24d ago
Starter comment:
Joe Biden has commuted the sentence of disgraced former judge Michael Conahan behind the infamous Kids for Cash scandal. Under the scheme, private prisons gave kickbacks to the judge in exchange for sentencing children to for-profit prisons. The scandal is believed to have impacted the lives of more than 2,500 kids. The judge was previously sent on house arrest after the Covid pandemic.
This commutation was done along with 1500 others whose sentences were commuted.
Do you agree with this decision? How does this impact Joe Biden’s legacy?
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u/ekim_101 24d ago
Fuck this one. In particular. I hope this sets the stage for a destruction of the presidential pardon
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u/SeekingTheRoad 24d ago
Constitutionally protected presidential power so it would take something far beyond this to conceivably gather the capital to make an amendment to remove the pardon system.
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u/skippybosco 24d ago
it would take something far beyond this to conceivably gather the capital to make an amendment to remove the pardon system.
I'll trade you presidential pardon revocation for amending birthright citizenship to require at least one parent be a citizen or green card holder.
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u/landboisteve 23d ago
At the VERY LEAST the ability for children to petition parents for green cards should be eliminated. This creates a massive incentive to enter illegally, give birth in the US at the taxpayer's/hospital's expense, and then lay low for 20+ years until the child turns 21 and can sponsor them.
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u/Miguel-odon 23d ago
That would quickly create a subclass of people who are born here but not citizens. Expect that to be abused immediately.
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u/skippybosco 23d ago edited 23d ago
people who are born here but not citizens
Children under 21 of a green card holder are eligible for a green card under the F2A preference category.
If they are born in country to parents that are neither citizens or green card holders, this would be an incentive for the parents to rectify that situation or self-deport.
That's the point. carrot or stick.
If you go after businesses hiring illegal workers, go after "sanctuary" states harboring illegal immigrants and don't reward illegal immigrants to win the citizenship lottery, suddenly the attractiveness of US as a destination to break the law to enter is less palatable.
Then make the pathway to legal immigration significantly optimized, prioritized for merit primarily, with some overflow for humanitarianism.
I'd go further and allow illegal immigrants in country now the option to self deport and come back in via legal means. If they don't, and are caught, they'll be deported and barred from any future legal immigration consideration.
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u/mynameisnotshamus 23d ago
The legal means part has to be addressed. Many more judges are needed for instance. That whole process is incredibly broken.
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u/skippybosco 23d ago
The legal means part has to be addressed
That was the point of "Then make the pathway to legal immigration significantly optimized, prioritized for merit primarily"
Many more judges are needed for instance.
Not necessarily. First because you'll have significantly less as a result of the higher bar of entry which for many means the effort isn't worth the risk. Secondly because a merit based system is less nuanced so more efficiently judged.
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u/LeMansDynasty 23d ago
32 of 195 countries in the world give birthright citizenship. It doesn't seem to be a global problem, so I'm not sure how you're jumping to your conclusion.
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u/Drekhar OG Green Party 23d ago
How is birth right citizenship so quickly being given up by so many people? What is happening in this country?
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u/Sideswipe0009 23d ago
Can't speak for everyone, but I've never really liked it.
It's purpose was to grant citizenship to slaves and native Americans, not every person born here in perpetuity.
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u/rchive 24d ago
I don't think that's a good idea. Pardons exist for a reason.
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u/jim25y 24d ago
I think some limits might be in order. Like, no pardons between the election and inauguration.
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u/Sabertooth767 Neoclassical Liberal 24d ago
Pardons are abused far, far more than are used properly.
I don't know if they should be abolished outright, but there needs to be reform.
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u/Iceraptor17 24d ago
Yeah i keep hearing pardons are a check... but it seems more often than not they're abused by lame ducks on their way out the door to benefit friends and allies.
If we must have a pardon, add an amendment to say it can only be done pre election or something. I find whatever it's supposedly a check for is not worth the sheer amount of corruption and cronyism that we get.
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u/widget1321 23d ago
Yeah i keep hearing pardons are a check... but it seems more often than not they're abused by lame ducks on their way out the door to benefit friends and allies.
I could be wrong, as I haven't actually looked at the numbers and statistics, but my understanding is it's not as bad as all that. There are usually some abusive pardons, yes, particularly in the lame duck period. But those get focused on and talked about more. My understanding is that most pardons/commutations aren't really objectionable and have legitimate reasons behind them, but because we focus on the ones that ARE, it just feels like it's not ever used legitimately.
Take this situation, there are over 1500 cases here. I've heard objections to like 2-3. I don't know that the others are reasonable as I haven't been over the whole list or anything, but I would suspect there wouldn't be as much focus on cases like this one if they were all terrible pardons (which, again, matches up with what I have been told in the past).
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u/cathbadh 24d ago
Just require it to be ratified by the House with a simple majority. This will almost guarantee it won't be abused as much.
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u/Iceraptor17 24d ago edited 24d ago
I'm not sure. They're also just getting done with an election and it's very doubtful they'll be held accountable for it years later (sadly it does not seem to be a factor to voters come election time, though admittedly the sample size for that is very little. But trump's pardons didn't really even come up during the election).
Most likely it'll just be a rubber stamp if the house is in your favor and a complete denial if it's the opposite party.
Granted only so much you can do if voters won't hold people accountable. And at least house approval would remove the fact that a lame duck president doing this faces literally no accountability.
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u/Miguel-odon 23d ago
Do you have statistics to support that claim?
Out of this batch of 1,500 pardons and clemency, how many of them do you specifically object to?
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u/Sabertooth767 Neoclassical Liberal 23d ago
I am prima facie opposed to pardons. I believe they should be used only when there is some compelling public interest to forgive the recipient and/or the recipient was demonstrably wronged by the legal system and could not be restored through the normal process.
Thus, I believe pardons and commutations should be very restrained. The ideal number is 0. It is something that requires special justification, not just "they deserve a second chance."
In short: all of them.
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u/Miguel-odon 23d ago
Do you recognize that others may view the world differently? Some might see clemency as justified when it costs more to continue to punish a specific person than the benefit society might gain from continuing to punish that person?
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u/mynameisnotshamus 23d ago
Most of them are of public interest and those who were wronged by the system and couldn’t be restored through normal processes though.
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u/Practicalistist 24d ago
Delegate pardon powers to an executive committee consisting of a mix of presidential picks and congressional picks, of whom must be licensed in law.
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u/mynameisnotshamus 23d ago
You think most of the thousands Biden has done are wrong? All of the non violent minor drug offenses for instance?
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u/ekim_101 24d ago
Maybe before but now they seem to just be abused in some fashion.
Though in the end, you're right. A criminal can relapse and be jailed again, but giving an innocent person their life back is worth a lot.
It's a rough situation. It's clearly being abused though
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u/WhatAreYouSaying05 moderate right 24d ago
Joe Biden seems determined to wreck what’s left of his presidency
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u/SpicyButterBoy Pragmatic Progressive 23d ago
Im not okay with this one. Hes served 14 years out of his 28 year sentence, if my googlefu is accurate. I suppose one could argue that enough time and if hes reformed then he deserves a second chance at being a member of society. Could be on compassionate grounds depending on his family situation also?
I still dont like it.
As to Bidens legacy, nothing will save his legacy at this point. He will always be the man that let Trump win because Bidens ego convinced him he should run again and nuked the dems chances because of it. This is a minor story that wont be remembered in 50 years.
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u/J-Team07 23d ago
28 years was a light sentence. He should have served the exact amount of time he stole from those kids.
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u/widget1321 23d ago
It says in the article he got 17 years and was due out in August 2026. So, he was almost out. There's a DIFFERENT judge involved in the same set of crimes who got 28 years (due out in 2034), he didn't get a commutation.
I still think it was not a good use of the power in this case, but just wanted to get the facts right.
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u/SpicyButterBoy Pragmatic Progressive 23d ago
Ahh, i see. Thank you for the correction. I gotta get back into the dojo it seems.
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u/thingsmybosscantsee Pragmatic Progressive 22d ago
14 years out of his 28 year sentence, if my googlefu is accurate
It is not.
Conahan only was convicted on one count of racketeering, And given a 17.5 year sentence.
Ciavarella, the judge that actually did the bulk of the sentencing, was given a 28 year sentence, and remains in prison.
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u/The_runnerup913 23d ago
No, I don’t agree with it. It’s abhorrent.
I don’t think Biden’s legacy is going to be as bad as everyone wants to make it, but things like this are stupefying
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u/Sabertooth767 Neoclassical Liberal 24d ago
Funny joke, Mr. President. When you told us you were freeing nonviolent drug offenders, you meant the people who put them in prison! Fucking hilarious.
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u/random3223 23d ago
His crimes were non violent. I think that’s a problem with the classification of violent vs non violent crimes. Maybe we need a 3rd classification, or an impact assessment, because this guy ruined a lot of lives, and should have spent the rest of his life behind bars.
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u/SadMom2019 23d ago
I mean, I guess technically they were non-violent crimes, but there was death and immeasurable suffering caused as a direct result of his crimes. So while he didn't personally commit violent crimes, he did cause the deaths of children. Like this mother losing her son to suicide after he was sentenced by this judge. And there were 2500 other kids, some of whose families say they went on to have severely damaged futures, were abused in these facilities, resulting in severe trauma, mental health struggles, drug addiction, overdoses, etc.
I'd argue this was a violent crime. Just like a healthcare CEO who builds his wealth on the suffering, death, and ruination of others.
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u/Blurry_Bigfoot 22d ago
I'd consider falsely putting anyone in a confined space when they do not deserve it to be a violent action
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u/aspectmin 24d ago
Just wow I’m slightly left leaning, but this…
Talk about a good way to get me to never vote for Biden’s pals again.
This judge deserved to rot in prison who the rest of his life.
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u/motsanciens 23d ago
I can usually think of some angle that is defensible for Biden, including his son's pardon. This, though, is inexcusable. In fact, if this were done before the election and he was running, it would cause me to abstain from giving him my vote. It's despicable.
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u/Averaged00d86 Legally screwing the IRS is a civic duty 23d ago
The pardon for Hunter, I can understand yet not agree with.
This specific commutation? This one is so utterly disgusting and beyond the pale that it's generationally unforgivable.
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u/MachiavelliSJ 24d ago
I knew when there are this many pardoned, they’re trying to bury the crazy, terrible, and corrupt pardons
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u/reaper527 24d ago
I knew when there are this many pardoned, they’re trying to bury the crazy, terrible, and corrupt pardons
yup, and you'll routinely see articles referring to the 1500 people as "non-violent criminals", with heavy implications that most are drug offenses.
this guy's crime might not have been violent, but he definitely belongs behind bars until his sentence ends, and shouldn't have his crime wiped from his record.
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u/Timo-the-hippo 23d ago
This was an extremely violent crime. He forced children into prisons with the threat of physical violence to receive money.
Just because he delegates the violence to the state doesn't change what it is. Otherwise hiring someone to kill someone is a non-violent crime.
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u/absentlyric Economically Left Socially Right 23d ago
Yeah, I never liked the way they word "non violent" criminals as if they are all somehow just misguided and got cheated by the system and never harmed anyone. Come on.
Funny, if I punch a guy at the bar for grabbing my girl, I'd be thrown into the violent category and not pardoned, but someone could be caught with 10000 images of CP yet considered "non violent" and gets treated with kid gloves by the media.
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u/wirefences 23d ago
I’ve always wondered how do plea deals factor into the stats on non-violent offenders? Is there any record on what charges were dropped against people who plead guilty to drug offenses?
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u/SpillinThaTea 24d ago edited 24d ago
Haul his ass in front of congress. He has a pardon now so he can’t plead the 5th since he can’t incriminate himself. Grill him and make admit. One kid committed suicide. Make him roll over Civarella so they can try Civarella again on more crimes so that even he miraculously makes it to the end of his first sentence he has another 40 to go. Make Civarella lose all hope of ever seeing freedom. Civarella deserves to spend the rest of his life, alone, afraid and receiving the very substandard healthcare he bestowed on children.
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u/thingsmybosscantsee Pragmatic Progressive 24d ago
He did not get a pardon. His sentence was commuted, shortening his sentence by 6 months, which he was already serving in his home under federal supervision.
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u/Sabertooth767 Neoclassical Liberal 24d ago
The children he imprisoned, of course, did not get that luxury.
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u/Iceraptor17 24d ago
Should have had party friends or been a donor. They'll learn next time!
Absolutely disgusting.
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u/Zenkin 23d ago
The children he imprisoned, of course, did not get that luxury.
Yes, they did. In 2011:
The supreme court decided, 4–1, to uphold Lokuta's removal from the bench in January 2011, finding that she had indeed received a sufficiently fair trial, regardless of Conahan's adverse testimony. The court also ordered the expungement of the records of 2,401 juveniles who were affected by the judicial misconduct.
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u/SadMom2019 23d ago
Little good that did for the kids who killed themselves as a result of this corrupt judges sentencing them to prison time. Or the ones who had already served years in prison, suffering abuse in these facilities, leaving them with profound trauma and mental harm, many of whom went on to struggle with drug addiction and overdoses. A pardon years later is the bare minimum they needed to do, but it doesn't undo the harm that was suffered.
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u/landboisteve 23d ago
What the fuck. What is the upside to this. The guy had 6 months left on house arrest. Why even commute the sentence at this point and deal with the fallout... the optics of this are horrible. Someone tell me how this makes any sense whatsoever.
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u/widget1321 23d ago
20 months (August 2026, not 2025).
Doesn't change your point, just correcting the facts. Still shouldn't have happened.
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u/Zoroasker 24d ago
But he doesn’t have a pardon…the tail end of a sentence he was already serving at home for the last 4+ years was commuted.
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u/haunted_cheesecake 24d ago
He also pardoned people convicted for possession of child pornography.
But hey, no one is above the law right?
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u/StopCollaborate230 24d ago
The Chinese guy convicted for CP had his sentence commuted, he wasn’t pardoned. Part of it was also that he had to leave the country permanently, among other things, with the explicit reservation of “if you break this agreement we will totally arrest you again.”
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u/jmcdon00 24d ago
It was a prisoners exchange, traded 3 Chinese for 3 Americans.
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u/cathbadh 24d ago
Yeah, this one Im good with, especially if he's prohibited from returning. He'll probably end up in a tiger chair for a bit back home
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u/Careful_Farmer_2879 24d ago
Ohhhh OK. He only commuted the CP guy. Commuted. Cool.
WHY???
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u/sr20ser84 24d ago
He may have been part of the prisoner exchange with China that also included two Chinese spies.
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u/adminhotep Thoughtcrime Convict 23d ago
Biden's been the posterchild of the prison industrial complex for some time. This is probably just a friend and colleague on the project.
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u/SpiffySpacemanSpiff 24d ago
Is the Biden admin just trying to go to 11 with their last days in office?
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u/randommeme 24d ago edited 23d ago
shortened his 17 year sentence by 6 months, I don’t really like the decision but also not very consequential.
1 year 6 months actually, yeah that's pretty much indefensible.
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u/tacitdenial 24d ago
I'd support reducing a lot of sentences, but if this one makes your list what kind of list is it? It isn't very consequential but it is revealing.
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u/randommeme 24d ago
People that are unlikely to reoffend, are over 70 years old, are already in home confinement, and have less than a year left on 15+ yr sentences, for which federal sentencing guidelines have since changed.
Like I said, I don't really support the decision but I also don't feel outraged, whatever.
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u/Janitor_Pride 24d ago
The guy deliberately abused his authority and ruined many people's lives for personal gain. Someone like a judge should be held to the highest standards.
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u/Plus_Lifeguard_8527 23d ago
I read yesterday that another he commuted was rita crundwell, I think is her name. She stole 54 million from her town, it worked out to be half their budget every year ahe was taking. then awhile back biden let her out of prison early as part of reducing prison population, probably along with this guy.
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u/Sabertooth767 Neoclassical Liberal 24d ago
Nah, fuck that. This guy should've died alone in prison.
This is a (former) judge who put kids in jail for money. He deserved to do every day he forced others to serve, and then do it again.
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u/HailHealer 24d ago
WDYM you don't feel outraged? This dude stands out as one of the worst human beings on planet earth
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u/Jaaawsh 23d ago
There was an episode of SVU that was (for legal purposes not based on any real story or person) but it was obviously inspired by this. A corrupt judge getting kickbacks for sending kids to for-profit juvenile detention centers when they normally would have gotten probation. And the episode just happened to come out a year or two later…
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u/widget1321 23d ago
According to the article, he was getting out in August 2026. He had 20 months left. Just FYI.
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u/timewellwasted5 23d ago
If he had 20 months left he should have served 20 months. Do you realize the lives this guy destroyed?
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u/widget1321 23d ago
Do you realize the lives this guy destroyed?
Why, exactly, are you asking ME that? What in my comment (where I pointed out a factual error, but commented neither way on the person I was replying to's opinion) makes you think I am not aware of that? Or that I was specifically either supporting or crushing the commutation in that comment?
For the record, I don't like the commutation, but that really had nothing to do with that particular comment. I was just making sure the facts got corrected.
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u/timewellwasted5 23d ago
I'm making sure everyone is aware of this, regardless of intent.
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u/widget1321 23d ago
Ahh, okay, misunderstanding then. Since it was your only comment on here and it was 5 levels deep and it read like it was accusatory, you can forgive me for thinking it was directed at me and you were assuming I was pro-this commutation.
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u/timewellwasted5 23d ago
I bet if your kid was thrown in jail for something they shouldn’t be, all so that a wealthy judge could get millions of dollars in kickbacks from a for-profit prison, you would feel differently. I’m sorry, but your take on this is horrible.
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u/randommeme 23d ago
yeah instead of trial judges and parole committees that have all the information and years of experience, we should just have victim’s families vote on the sentence.
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u/timewellwasted5 23d ago
I can tell you’re not familiar with this case. These judges got millions of dollars in kickbacks from private for profit prisons to send kids to these detention centers for minor offenses. At least one child committed suicide shortly after being released. The judges tried to plead guilty to these crimes and the judge for the case rejected their pleas and threw the book at them.
Then President Joseph R. Biden commuted the sentence of one of them, shortening his sentence for this heinous crime by about 29 months.
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u/randommeme 23d ago
It was 19 months, Aug 2026 was the release date.
You or I don't have all the details (e.g. do you know if he has terminal cancer?) and mob justice isn't justice.
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u/timewellwasted5 23d ago
He abused his position and put innocent children in detention centers when he shouldn’t have. He destroyed many lives. I don’t give a shit what medical condition he has, he deserved to serve his whole sentence as dictated by our judicial system.
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u/Sabertooth767 Neoclassical Liberal 24d ago
Sure, but like... why? If anything, 17 years is too short.
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u/randommeme 24d ago
instead of a justice system we should just have a subreddit of news articles describing crimes, and 100 upvotes means the accused is guilty, and every upvote after that adds a year to the sentence
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u/bodiwait 23d ago
That's the plot of Black mirror episode Nosedive. Social media votes decide your life, including when to send you to prison.
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u/VirtualPlate8451 24d ago
So why in the ever loving fuck do you risk your legacy by commuting the sentence? Hunter was understandable and I'm even fine with some white collar guys who ripped off other rich people but I've seen 2 thus far where there are actual victims harmed by these people still alive today.
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u/landboisteve 23d ago
Hunter was understandable
Latest data shows about 80% of the country disagrees with you. Pardoning Hunter for specifically the drug and tax crimes would have been one thing. Blanket immunity going back 10+ years and even a few hours into the future? Fuck that.
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u/EstebanTrabajos 24d ago
I think if you took a poll of citizens a super majority would think this judge deserves a life sentence. To so thoroughly betray his office, to destroy trust in the judicial process, the simple greed, and the lives he destroyed, including a suicide.
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u/randommeme 24d ago
sure if mob justice based on 150 word news article with no chance to present a defense is your idea of a judicial gold standard.
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u/EstebanTrabajos 24d ago
I really don’t think you know how horrible his crimes were:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
Every defendant that ever faced him had to have their sentences removed. He sold children for money, gave first time offenders the maximum possible sentence because he would get more money that way.
How do you think his victims and their families feel about letting him out early?
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u/absentlyric Economically Left Socially Right 23d ago
Almost makes me wonder why even do it at all considering how bad it looks.
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u/Confident_Message732 23d ago
Biden is laughing all the way to da bank America got what it deserved.
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u/WhatAreYouSaying05 moderate right 24d ago
Why exactly did Biden pardon him?