r/interestingasfuck • u/eliseereclusvivre • 1d ago

From 2014 to 2025, Mark Zuckerberg bought over 1,400 acres on Kauai Island and stole any land the natives wouldn't sell him, earning the moniker 'the face of neocolonialism.' r/all

70.7k Upvotes

86% Upvoted

View all comments

Show parent comments

u/02bluesuperroo 1d ago

But it sounds like the land has a different owner who also has legal right to access the land, likely not as a result of native rights, but as a result of having purchased that right.

36

u/AlarmingAerie 1d ago

More like back then nobody had papers of who owns what land, because Hawains didn't treat land ownership like the colonialists did. So when colonialists came they just applied their own rules and took advantage of it. Pretending like giving access to hawains was a good compromise to feel better about stealing the land. And now they don't honor that deal anymore, cause these billionaires have zero morals.

-4

u/simon7109 1d ago

Billionaires aside, if you would buy land in Hawaii and someone would come to you that they used to live there, would you give them access free of charge?

15

u/redthrowaway1976 1d ago

If they have the legal right to do so, by what right are you denying them?

6

u/AlarmingAerie 1d ago

That's exactly the problem. Their way of treating land ownership is incompatible with current legal system so they got shafted.

They didn't just live there, they owned the land.

0

u/simon7109 1d ago

So who sold that land then?

6

u/CruelJustice66 1d ago

Yes because Native Hawaiians were in Hawaii first and while they don’t have proper paperwork all the time, they do have their own way of keeping track of property and lineage.

13

u/FeRooster808 1d ago

Hawaii has only been a state less than 100 years. Nancy Pelosi was a teenager when it became a state. As such native people are very much still there much like native Americans only the colonialism is much more recent.

Native Hawaiians have many rights like native Americans do though they aren't federally recognized as indigenous. There is some argument they should be. I leave that decision to them. But if they wish it i think they should be and Oprah, Zuckerberg and the like should have their properties returned to the Hawaiian people. They can afford the loss.

0

u/fuzzybunnybaldeagle 1d ago

What about the non rich people that own land in Hawaii? Genuinely curious what the solution should be for average people who own homes. Should they too give back their property?

2

u/FeRooster808 1d ago

A lot of those people are Hawaiian. Also a lot of Hawaiian buildings are leasehold. Do upu basically leasehold it for 99 years but you never own it. It's a common system in Asia as well.

Beyond that...there are options. For example almost half of Oklahoma was returned to the tribes in a supreme court verdict a few years ago. And a lot of non natives live on tribal lands. So there are means of returning lands without kicking people out.

But Zuckerberg and the like don't respect their rights and have actively seized things on sketchy ways. So throw them out.

Why is it acceptable to you that less than a hundred years ago Hawaiians were essentially forced into the US and to end their rule...but it's not ok to kick people out? That's convenient.

0

u/fuzzybunnybaldeagle 1d ago

It is not acceptable at all that a sovereign nation was overthrown by the greed of colonizers that planted Koa and spiked plants so the natives would have to wear shoes. That forced them to give up their language, religion/ beliefs and culture. . What in my comment made you think that was my belief?

I own a small shitty single wall construction house in Hawaii. I’m not Hawaiian. I tend to ask people who say that lands need to be returned to Hawaiians which lands and what should happen to non Hawaiians that own land. How many generations back do people have to own land before they get to keep it? Does anyone who doesn’t have native Hawaiian blood get to keep land? I am genuinely curious what people’s plans are when they say to give the land back to native Hawaiians. How much Hawaiian blood do you need to get land? To own Hawaiian homeland lots and homes you need 50% Hawaiian blood. There are fewer and fewer half blooded Hawaiians every generation. I enjoy these open dialogue to share and learn from others.

0

u/FeRooster808 1d ago

If I'm honest I think your questions are more transparent than you think they are. Regardless, I think that ideally in a situation where lands were returned that there would be some reasonable considerations made. But my greater point, which you pretend to answer but actually evade, stands. Why would it not be acceptable for non indigenous people's homes and lands to be stripped from them the same way as was done to the tribes not be acceptable? It would suck yes, but arguably would be more just than the initial theft was. Why different expectations for different people?

And look, I've lived it. My family owned many acres of land in Oklahoma including lucrative oil and mineral rights during the McGrit case. In the end the return was limited in scope but I agreed with it, and honestly would have agreed if it has been returned in full. Would it have sucked sure, but it still would have been just. More just really.