r/iaido • u/ScoJoMcBem • Nov 29 '24
Help identifying Kata series
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During pandemic, kendo instructor taught me these, which he learned from a Japanese kendoka 30 years ago, so they were vague and imprecise. Forgive the aikido gi and Judo noise. I only had a second. I'd be grateful for any idea of what this series is called. Thanks!
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u/Erchi Nov 29 '24
First one reminds me of Bato from muso shinden ryu done in standing position (doesnt make sense story-wise and the cut looks more like sei-tei mae kata). The other two are familiar, but not my koryu, so I wont be guessing.
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u/Tex_Arizona Nov 29 '24
It's Shinshin Ryu / Sekeguchi Ryu performed badly. And the sageo isn't supposed to be tied like that for those styles.
I'm a Shinshin Ryu ni dan.
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u/ScoJoMcBem Nov 30 '24
Awesome! Thank you. And yes, badly. No offense was meant. Like I said, a copy of a copy from something learned in the 90s then left alone until COVID. Is there a series or names for Kata I could look up? More for curiosity than for any dream of doing it well. I'd have to find a school, but the only close people are Katori. Thanks again!
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u/Tex_Arizona Nov 30 '24 edited Nov 30 '24
No offense taken! Considering the kata passed through a 30 year game of telephone they are surprisingly intact.
I'll DM you the names of the kata. Where are you located? Perhaps there's a dojo somewhere near you.
There are very few videos of Shinshin Ryu online, but here is one of Keupp sensei, the head of the style in the US, from several years back when he was still a student. He performs one of the kata you demonstrated along with a few others
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u/ScoJoMcBem Dec 01 '24
This is excellent, thank you! I see that Kata around 2:20. I'd be glad for the names of them. We did a few more but I remember these best. Also, my kendo instructor learned to hang the sageo over and behind the saya, like in the video. His friend must have done Shishin Ryu at some point. Thank you again.
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u/TheKatanaist ZNKR, MSR, USFBD Nov 29 '24
There are some signs of Ryushin Shouchi ryu, though I don’t know their kata well enough to say that’s what it is.
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u/Luuk341 Ryushin Shouchi - Ryu Nov 29 '24
I do Ryushin Shouchi Ryu and this video does not particularly show any Ryushin I'm afraid.
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u/derioderio Nov 29 '24
The first two look like the seitei iaido, specifically #1 (a variation where it's done all standing) and #7. The third one looks like either a mash up of a few other kata or possibly a kata from some koryu instead of seitei iaido.
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u/blackhuey Musō Jikiden Eishin-ryū Nov 29 '24
Basically correct all round. I have seen the last one (or something very like it) performed by a Musō Jikiden Eishin Ryu sensei though I never learned it.
OP, the video above is the "bible" for Seitei, which is the "standard set" used for comparison across all schools. Study with an Iaido sensei if you can, because even though everything you need is in the video, there are subtleties that you will miss.
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u/Brief-Eye5893 Nov 29 '24
I wouldn’t be too keen to emulate this chap, he’s pretty sloppy
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u/KabazaikuFan MSR/ZNKR Nov 29 '24
Why would we? That's not what the post is about, either.
OP is asking for help identifying what he might have been taught, briefly, some years ago, from a kendo instructor who themselves had learned it thirty years ago. It is filmed in between his aikido training. OP also notes that the instructions were vague and imprecise. I think it is rather impressive he learned them well enough that we can extrapolate what the kata might be, and help him with is questions.
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u/ScoJoMcBem Nov 29 '24
Thank you for reading the text. :-) Yeah, I definitely wasn't putting this up there for anyone to emulate. It's been a while since I've done them too.
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u/streamer3222 Nov 29 '24
Don't know if your Ryūha is like this—your form looks very ‘lenient’. As if it needs more ‘rigidity’, ‘discipline’, ‘speed’, ‘anger’. I don't really have the word.. something feels off.
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u/guitarbryan Nov 29 '24
Needs more "iai".
Trying our best to put aside that this is an abject beginner (we all were once), there's no real sense of there being a dangerous enemy threatening him, or someone he is a threat to. It's just a series of movements performed in order.
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u/ScoJoMcBem Nov 29 '24
You're absolutely correct! Like I said these were taught to my Kendo instructor 30 years ago, and he brought them back during covid as something we could do. I am not very invested in the movements because I'd like to find some version of it that is definitive. Why commit fully to incorrect movements? But yeah, finding an iai instructor nearby would be best.
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u/ScoJoMcBem Nov 29 '24
Unfortunately I'm not in any school, technically. Like I said, I learned these from my Kendo instructor, who learned them from someone 30 years ago. They're copies of copies and not very good. I will say though, having done a little bit of form work in multiple martial arts and then done Kendo, there is a big difference between striking imaginary opponents and one that can hit you back. :-) I know Kendo is just a sport now, but having learned to parry and return attacks that are live, it has informed my sword work in Aikido and other places where I use it.
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u/Tex_Arizona Nov 29 '24 edited Nov 29 '24
Those are Shinshin Ryu kata. I practice at the main US dojo. Happy to provide more info if you like
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u/ajjunn Nov 29 '24 edited 25d ago
The second one I've seen before in Nippon Iaido Kyokai (another, smaller federation separate from ZNKR and ZNIR) toho. The third kata in this video, apparently from Sekiguchi-ryu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_syMQbI1ss
The first one too could be some kind of a mix of the first and last in the video, but hard to say. However, the third one is not included in this set. The kaiten chiburi at the end is not found in many schools.
EDIT: all from Sekiguchi-ryu, as said below.