r/geography Urban Geography 16d ago

Argentina is the most British country in Latin America. Why? Discussion

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I would like to expand upon the title. I believe that Argentina is not only the most ‘British’ country in Latin America, but the most ‘British’ country that was never formally colonized by the British themselves. I firmly believe this and will elaborate.

Let’s start with town names. In the Buenos Aires metro area alone; English & Irish town and neighborhood names are commonplace. Such as Hurlingham, Canning, Billinghurst, Wilde, Temperley, Ranelagh, Hudson, Claypole, Coghlan, Banfield, and even Victoria (yes, purposefully named after the Queen).

One of the two biggest football clubs in the capital has an English name, River Plate. And the sport was brought by some English immigrants. Curiously, Rugby and Polo are also very popular Argentina, unlike surrounding countries. For a long time, the only Harrods outside the UK operated in Buenos Aires too. Many Argentines are of partial English descent. When the English community was stronger, they built a prominent brick monument called “Tower of the English”. After the Falklands, it was renamed to “Tower of the Malvinas” by the government out of spite.

In Patagonia, in the Chubut province particularly, there is obviously the Welsh community with town names like Trelew, Eawson, and Puerto Madryn. Patagonian Welsh is a unique variety of the language that developed more or less independently for a few years with no further influence from English. Although the community and speakers now number little, Welsh traditions are a major tourist factor for Chubut.

There is a notable diaspora community of Scottish and their descendants as well. I remember once randomly walking into a large Scottish festival near Plaza de Mayo where there were many artisan vendors selling celtic merchandise with a couple of traditional Scottish dancers on a stage.

Chile has some British/Irish influence (who can forget Bernardo O’Higgins?), but seemingly not nearly to the same extent. The English community was rather small, so it doesn’t make much sense to me how they can have such a large impact. I guess my question is why Argentina? Of all places

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u/gustavmahler01 16d ago

Well, at one time it was the *richest* country in South America. I remember my Argentine friends in grad school used to tell me that Argentina used to be the United States of South America. But then they always added the qualifier that that is no longer the case.

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u/JerrytheK 16d ago

In 1913, Argentina was one of the ten wealthiest countries per capita in the world, ahead of France, Germany, and Italy. Source: Council on Foreign Relations

First country ever to regress to developing from developed.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/argentinas-struggle-stability#:~:text=Between%201860%20and%201930%2C%20it,France%2C%20Germany%2C%20and%20Italy.

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u/belortik 16d ago

Oof, what a sad thing to stand out for.

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u/contextual_somebody 16d ago

TBF they've always made terrible choices when it comes to voting. Hey. Maybe the U.S. will someday be the Argentina of North America

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u/Wildwilly54 16d ago edited 16d ago

Canada’s doing a good job of going backwards right now

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u/backgamemon 16d ago

I currently live in Canada and idk man we gotta long way to go if we really want to compete with South America

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u/Wildwilly54 16d ago edited 16d ago

Oh of course. I was just replying to someone saying that someday the US could go that route. At this current point in time, Canada is the one on the downward trajectory. But no, it will never get that bad.

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u/conners_captures 16d ago

But no, it will never get that bad.

that's what argentina thought lol

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u/backgamemon 16d ago

Look I’m not saying Canada is in a better financial position than the us, not by a long shot, but Canada still has a higher life expectancy, social net, better education, lower poverty, lower crime rate, much more equal distribution of wealth and all people on the internet seem to care about is that the US has a huge concentration of global corporations. All I’m saying is I’m tiered of people pretending that Canada is some failing disfunctional hell hole one step away from poverty, when in reality it’s largest problem is that it shares a border with a nation that essentially has a global currency backed by the entire fucking world economy.

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u/Throwaway98796895975 14d ago

Dude, Toronto police told people to keep their car keys by the door so that the car thieves don’t have to become home invaders.

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u/parararalle 15d ago

What you say is true but GDP per capita is declining in the last 6 quarters. It's not a good thing. People are feeling that and that's why they come in the Internet saying such things too. Government about to announce some larger deficit spending numbers and unemployment is up. There wouldn't even be a positive overall GDP if it were not for government spending. Good possibility this decrease in GDP per capita trend will continue. The trend is troubling

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u/Dr_N00B 16d ago

When people say Canada will become Venezuela, I say no. We will become Argentina of course

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u/Fake-Podcast-Ad 16d ago

Only going to get worse with PP and provincial morons lining their pockets further.

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u/Wildwilly54 16d ago edited 16d ago

I lived in Toronto before Covid, but work for a Canadian company in the States. Every time I go back to the Toronto office I got at least 15 people asking me if I can get them a job. It’s pretty bleak at the moment. Don’t think Poilievre can do much worse than Trudeau.

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u/Attainted 16d ago

pp will bend over for Trump.

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u/ThomasBay 16d ago

You know it’s the provinces that are causing these problems right? It’s not the Feds

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u/bobnla14 16d ago

Give us 2 years and done!!/s

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u/FucknAright 16d ago

Yea, in about 3 years

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u/AKsNcarTassels 16d ago

It’s Canada right now. Cost of living (corporate greed) has lowered the living standards substantially and both the provincial and federal levels of governments are majorly corrupted. Government is staffed with friends of no qualifications except grifting.

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u/Long-Astronaut-3363 16d ago

So it’s like the USA now?

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u/piney 16d ago

Maybe someday in January

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u/ComfortableYak2071 16d ago

Milei is making genuine improvements, their economy has surged quite dramatically since he’s implemented his plans

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u/Vegabern 16d ago

I just read a headline that he's reducing taxes by 90% not 5 minutes ago.

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u/FlygonSA 16d ago

There is a subtlety about that, he is going to reduce 90% the number of taxes, nowadays there is something like +200 different taxes but only 10 of those taxes represent 91% of tax revenue, so he is planing on simplifying the tax structure by removing those smaller taxes that don't bring a lot of money to the government

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/CaterpillarLoud8071 16d ago

If a tax isn't for revenue, it's for another purpose. Often you'll have a tax hitting a very niche area to prevent it being used as a tax loophole for a big tax. Otherwise, it's likely to be behavioural, like a tax on sugar in food.

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u/Jq4000 16d ago

As they say, there are four types of economies: Developed, Developing, Japan and Argentina...

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u/french_snail 16d ago

I don’t get it

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u/M4xusV4ltr0n 16d ago

Argentina is the only country to go from "developed" back down to "developing", so it's a super weird one in that case.

Japan's economy is also weird in that inflation there has been super low, like so low that it would be a problem in the US because it would mean economic growth has stopped. So it doesn't really fit in with the other "developed" economies.

Tldr Japan and Argentina have really weird economies

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u/DrPepperMalpractice 16d ago

Japan has been living in the year 2000 since the 1970s. As they say.

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u/Which_Environment911 15d ago

and still do

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u/Whattacharliefoxtrot 15d ago

That’s the joke

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u/Which_Environment911 15d ago

LOL yea i understood, just supporting it. its funny and sad at the same time

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u/visualogistics 16d ago

It's a famous saying of economist Simon Kuznets I believe. At the time he was implying that the economies of Japan and Argentina are unusual and do not fit into the standard model of 'developing-developed' that other countries do.

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u/onarainyafternoon 16d ago

There's another famous saying that is something to the effect of, "Japan has been in the year 2000 for the last forty years". Basically, Japan used to be one of the most technologically and economically advanced countries in the world, but in the 1990s, their economy crashed, and it's been a huge struggle since then. They still use fax machines for every day occurrences and only recently started putting government functions online.

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u/Ok-Excuse-3613 16d ago

The vibrant fax culture is mostly due to quickly aging population, incredible conservatism in terms of business practices and mediocre digital culture, than it is due to their economy

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u/Eagle4317 15d ago

The incredibly conservative mindset causing stagnation to last half a century. I wonder where we’ve seen this before?

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u/Ok-Excuse-3613 15d ago

I mean I don't want to be the devil's advocate, but...

Japanese politics have been conservative for the last 75 years now, with the LDP being in power during both their formidable growth and during most of their stagnation. Japan has almost never experienced a party majority change, with an LDP coalition in power from 1955 to 1993, 1994 to 2009 and then 2012-2024. So the roots of both their success and failures have to come from something else than just conservatism

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u/oyasumi_juli 15d ago

I’m in the US and in my line of work fax machines are in full force on a daily basis. I work with DMVs in all states though, so it’s more so that DMVs are stuck in the Stone Age tech-wise rather than the company I work for. Some have been moving forward with electronic titles, vehicle records/services and such, which just completely confuses the boomers (and beyond) generation, but fax is still totally a daily thing here too.

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u/JerrytheK 15d ago

Sorry, boomer here. Have been on computers (time share via a telex machine in high school) since 1967. We’re all not technologically inept. On the other hand, I did about want to rip a credit card out of an American’s hand in Norway when he could not figure out how to just tap the card to pay.

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u/Viend 16d ago

Argentina is a country that should be developed but somehow isn't, whereas Japan is a country that should still be developing but somehow already developed.

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u/SwoleHeisenberg 16d ago

Why should Japan be developing?

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u/epona2000 16d ago

Kuznets said this in the 80s or earlier. Before South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and arguably China copied Japan’s economic trajectory, no country had gone from war-ravaged and impoverished to industrial leader anywhere near as quickly as Japan.

The secret to this is what free-marketers don’t want to tell you or feign ignorance of: state capitalism grows economies really fast, especially if your country is poor.

Ironically, Japan’s economy is super weird again because of stagnation since the 90s but Kuznets obviously couldn’t have known. Quantitative easing and negative interest rates were invented because of the strangeness of the Japanese economy. However, there are signs that countries which followed Japan’s economic trajectory are also starting to stagnate and this may be a general trend due to how economic growth causes demographic shifts. 

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u/e9967780 Physical Geography 16d ago edited 16d ago

In simple English when an economy rapidly develops, women have fewer children. This quick shift means that within one generation, there aren’t enough young workers to support the growing number of elderly people through taxes and social services.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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u/epona2000 16d ago

It’s not just money. It’s the unpaid labor of taking care of your parents. It’s the fact that in a democracy, political power shifts up the population pyramid. 

Japan’s cultural xenophobia , misogyny, and tendency to save as opposed to invest money place them in a very undesirable position as well.

I don’t like your framing, because it makes it look like the solution is to just force women to have more kids. 

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u/e9967780 Physical Geography 16d ago edited 16d ago

Women are choosing fewer children because, for the first time, they have real alternatives to traditional roles. They can pursue education and careers, which fundamentally changes reproductive decisions. This isn’t reversible - it’s a permanent societal shift happening worldwide, not just in specific countries.

The global population trend is heading toward fewer births as women gain more economic and personal freedom. Countries like Japan are early indicators of a broader global pattern where population decline becomes the norm, not the exception. There’s a finite number of people and resources, and the current model of endless growth is unsustainable.

Multicultural expansion and immigration aren’t universal solutions. Some societies, like Japan, may choose to maintain their demographic and cultural integrity rather than importing populations. The underlying reality is that global population dynamics are changing, and societies will need to adapt to smaller populations and limited resources.

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u/Poringun 16d ago

Its less "developing" and more should be growing.

Japans economy is stagnating, has been for like 3 decades now.

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u/Ginmunger 16d ago

It's not weird, their population is shrinking and aging rapidly, they're a service based economy. People produce a lot less when they retire and die.

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u/CR24752 16d ago

Didn’t this also happen to the UK? Must be an island lifestyle thing

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u/MittlerPfalz 16d ago

Right, and of course in 1913 (and the preceding decades) Britain was at the peak of its powers, the Empirein full swing, the Brits feeling perfectly comfortable throwing their weight around all over the world.

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u/mwa12345 16d ago

yes. And Britain was a large trader with Argentina and a large market iirc Could be wrong

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u/BroSchrednei 16d ago

Argentina was also extremely unequal at the time. That wealth was completely concentrated with few people, while the vast majority was very poor.

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u/simulation_goer 16d ago

Naw, that's what lefties/peronist say to justify the robbery perpetrated by the socialist administrations that sunk the boat.

I come from euro immigrant families. A couple of branches arrived with nothing and turned comfy middle class in a couple of decades.

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u/lunartree 16d ago

Argentina flip flopped between the authoritarian left and the authoritarian right for most of 100 years. If you think the issue is on the economic axis you're missing the point.

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u/UsualLazy423 16d ago

That’s pretty much what all of South America does politically. They flip flop between hard right and hard left with no real center. I fear that’s exactly what’s happening to US right now. 

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u/lunartree 16d ago

There is no "hard left" party in America. There's a far right party and a centrist party, and both people on the left and right use the word "liberal" as an insult toward them. Trying to conflate the American Democratic party with a South American socialist party just makes you sound historically illiterate.

Again, authoritarianism is a thing, and this flip flopping happens because people are literally blind to what it is. When you don't have a healthy democracy where laws are enacted though the will of the people what you get are waves of populism that install charismatic leaders that force unpopular laws onto the masses. Then because their rule is unpopular they have to use a lot of force to hold that power until the next wave of populism topples them.

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u/FlygonSA 16d ago

Have you ever read Bialet Masse's report? Back in 1904 he traveled the whole country to report back to Roca the conditions of the working class of that era, it literally mentions how everybody worked and lived in poor conditions with low pay.
He wasn't a crazy leftist either or that wanted to defend the immigrant working class at all cost making shit up, he was a businessman and a liberal much of the liking of Roca, even in his report he berates the forestry laborers in Chaco because "They spent all their money on gambling and hookers".

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u/hinterstoisser 16d ago

False Economy by Alan Beattie is a fascinating read- talking about how immigration affected how Argentina and the US went in opposite directions on the prosperity front

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u/zehcoutinho 16d ago

I’m from Brazil, and back in the day my city got lots of Argentine tourists, and their nickname here was “dame dos”, which roughly translates to “I’ll take two” hehe

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u/jstax1178 16d ago

Venezuelans were the same at their peek too, everywhere they went “dame dos” lol Venezuela is a shit, I’m sure Argentina is still better off.

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u/mattyrob88 16d ago

To my understanding, the completion of the Panama Canal did a number on the Argentinian economy, as BA was no longer “on the way” for all manner of shipping anymore. Certainly their voting habits throughout the subsequent decades of the 20th/early 21st century set them back decades on the development index, but it seems to me like the Panama Canal was a catalyst of sorts.

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u/emessea 16d ago

Think it also had to do a lot with being an agrarian economy, and the land owners fought any industrialization which they felt would diminish their influence.

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u/SlypherAllin 15d ago

This is the main factor. We call them "Sociedad Rural / The thousand families".. Rich people who do not care about the general welfare of the country. Same old story.

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u/adiabatic-mind 16d ago

You can thank the fascist military dictatorship of the 20th century for this. For decades it drove argentinas economy to the ground and to this day it never recovered

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u/Specialist-Guitar-93 16d ago

Chile recovered, Brazil recovered, if your reasoning that fascist dictators are the reason Argentina never returned to prosperity, explain its immediate neighbours return to the big league of stability and relatively good economic growth.

Whilst I'm not doubting a centralist, nationalist, military centralised planning based economy is a shit idea. Being under a dictatorship isn't why their economy is so shit.

Go and listen to the rest is history podcast, it does a great 10 part series on Argentina and it's military dictatorship and you will see that it was essentially down to the currency going down the shitter, exports drying up, turning them into an import economy with no capital or fluidity to prop up a flailing currency, hence runaway inflation.

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u/ItsKyleWithaK 16d ago

Centralized planned economy? In a right wing fascist dictatorship? Propped up by the U.S. in order to prevent socialism from gaining ground in Latin America? Not saying you’re wrong, but that doesn’t sound right, albeit I know little about Argentine history.

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u/Specialist-Guitar-93 16d ago

Basically the short answer is, the first dictator of Argentina wasn't really fascist, he was a weird mix of populist (he gave working people a massive lift out of poverty, his wife Eva was the driving force behind it), centralised economy, relied on the military to remain in power, but he also regularly met with trade unionists and gave them a lot of what they asked for, education, housing, benefits etc He had the cult following that you would associate with fascism but I don't think Peron would be fascist. After his death (he was ousted before he died and tried to return, it involves witches and necromancers really interesting story), the country steadily slipped further and further right, lots of anarchist and communist bombings, it culminated in the Falklands invasion as a final gamble to retain power as they knew that the economy was so dire that they were fucked. The final dictatorship was were the most "disappearings" happened, flights into the Atlantic were prisoners were chucked into the ocean alive etc.

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u/ItsKyleWithaK 16d ago

Ahh that makes sense, i confused Peron with that one final one. I remember reading a little about him in Che Guevara’s biography. Definitely an interesting dude from a historical standpoint.

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u/Specialist-Guitar-93 16d ago

Yeah, Argentine history is wild last century. That's why all those words I used shouldn't make sense. But it's because they tried to do everything for everyone with none of the money to do it lol.

Spotify : The rest is history podcast

Excellent podcast.

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u/annieca2016 15d ago

He did return to power. He was President again from 1973 to 1974 when he died. His third wife, Isabel, was his vice president and so became president. She was the one overthrown by the junta. She was pretty inept, inflation had reached 3000 percent by some metrics, and the Peronist party had split into right- and left-wing factions, causing the junta.

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u/Lieutenant_Joe 16d ago

I’m not gonna pretend to be able to give you a specific answer to your question, but I can tell you as someone with a moderate amount of interest in the topic of 20th century American foreign policy: America’s single-minded policy of “stop communism at all costs” led to some very goofy alliances, some of which were with folks who had a lot of communist ideas but chose not to package them with that label.

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u/A-NI95 16d ago

Modern Americans like to conflate interventionism, even the mildest versions of it, with socialism/communism. But there are plenty lf examples of the opposite side of the spectrum going interventionistst. Different flavours of far right loved to have a big state not only politically but economically, be it either with nominal "worker" discourse, to appease the working class, because they liked the power, because of nationalist ideas...

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u/french_snail 16d ago

Argentinas decline started earlier in relation to their major export being beef and the markets crashing, but the fascist government certainly didn’t help lol

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u/greekfreak15 16d ago

Argentina's economy was already in the shitter before the Dirty War

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u/meldirlobor 16d ago

I'd say the responsibles for Argentinian economic collapse was #1 Menen and #2 The Kirchners.

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u/Entropy907 16d ago

Seems like there’s a lesson here (??)

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u/Dai-The-Flu- 16d ago

As an immigrant destination it was seen as on par with the US

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u/topbananaman 16d ago

I mean argentina also purged their native population, so I guess they're similar to the US in that regard?

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u/FlygonSA 16d ago

Most of the early Argentine Upper-class were British investors coming to the country to buy land for ranching or to invest in infrastructure/manufacturing, think stuff like railroads, telephones or some of the earlier export of the country such as meat, all of the slaughterhouses and canning plants were owned by the British.
This were very rich and powerful people that had a lot of influence in early Argentine society and most of them went to later found cities/colonies and civil associations such as sport clubs, specially football clubs.
It kinda made a lasting effect in Argentine society that made it admire the British way of living and the new non British Upper-Classes tried to replicate that as much as they could, that's why there is a lot of "British" looking neighborhood in major cities in Argentina or even a lots of english names for an spanish speaking country.
After WW2 most of this admiration went out of fashion and shifted to the US during the 50-60's and remains that way to this day, for example most gated communities try to emulate US suburban architecture and development style, if you go looking some of the northern neighborhoods of Buenos Aires you will see that it mostly looks like Florida.

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u/meldirlobor 16d ago edited 16d ago

Idk, the first time I went to San Isidro Acassuso, it reminded me a lot of places like Surrey. I used to go skateboarding there because it was one of the only places in Buenos Aires with downhill and quiet streets.

Edit. Lopez y Planes! Good People

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u/FlygonSA 16d ago

That's actually the idea of that neighborhood, Acassuso around the 1830's became a very "posh" place (as much of some of the surrounding neighborhood) and was full of rich businessman and landowners, it's even the place were Emilio Biecket used to live, the person who founded the first brewery in Argentina.
That neighborhood was made to cater to those people and that's why is so British looking, if you go about 40mins north you will find a place called Nordelta which follows that post-war suburban Florida looking development i mentioned.

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u/meldirlobor 16d ago

Tigre? I'd never been that far north. I know a lot of posh argentians have second houses along the "canals" there.

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u/bamadeo 16d ago

yes but even in that case san isidreans are more old money, if you will, whilst Nordelta and the Tigre neighborhoods are mostly new rich.

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u/These-Market-236 16d ago

Very good comment.

Although, i would contest the "most" in "Most of the early Argentine Upper-class were British". I mean, i believe that most of them were locals that admired the way of living of northern/western Europe (UK, France and Germany). In fact, I don't recall any well know British oligarchs.

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u/FlygonSA 16d ago

In fact, I don't recall any well know British oligarchs.

And you would be correct not to recall any and that's by design!, most of British investment into Argentina came from Free standing companies, what that means is that British companies would send their representatives to manage their assets located into the country and report back to Britain how everything was going
This representatives were those Upper-class individuals, being heads on local branches of foreign companies came with a really big pay, which also helped with political ambitions and how important those investments for the communities where they were settled also gave them a lot of political power, you don't have to look that far to find influential British companies in the early days of Argentine industrialization, like for example Liebig Meat Extracts, La Forestal or even River Plate Trust, Loan & Agency which was super important for British companies to be able to operate in Argentina and Uruguay

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u/bamadeo 16d ago

of the richest i can only think stuart milne, the rest are mostly either traditional criollo family with spanish surnames, or successful, mostly italian, new wave inmigrants.

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u/chrisarg72 16d ago

Which is also why a lot of the clubs are named in English (River Plate, Newells Old Boys, Banfield, Almirante Brown) despite them being very old clubs (River is older than Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Leeds, and Norwich to name a few )

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u/cuccir 16d ago edited 16d ago

You're correct.

The British had a policy in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century of investing in Argentina to create a powerbase in Latin America, without colonising. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_investment_in_Argentina.

Why Argentina? It was relatively resource rich, closer than the west coast countries, and no direct competitor as you had with Brazil/Portugal and Mexico/USA. Its climate was probably little more suitable for the British as well!

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u/tricheb0ars 16d ago

So when should I bring up the Falklands?

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u/caulpain 16d ago

world went through some small changes 🤏

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u/walker1867 16d ago

Technically the British are the indigenous people there. It hadn't previously been settled permanently before them.

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u/These-Market-236 16d ago edited 16d ago

Technically the British are the indigenous people there

Technically, no. The UN's C-24 committee states that they are settlers and that there are no indigenous groups native to the islands.
On top of that, while it is true that they first settled on the western island, the French had established a settlement on the eastern island a year earlier. Also, those British settlers left the islands voluntarily in 1744 (this is the origin of the famous plaque they left behind). The current settlers and their descendants have been there since 1833, after the British came back and expelled the Argentine authorities and most of it's settlers from the islands.

Edit: In fact, one of Argentina's arguments is that before 1833, the British did not claim rights to the eastern island. A proof of this is that the western island was referred to as "Falkland Island" (singular) in British documents.

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u/30fps_is_cinematic 15d ago

How long do people have to live on a previously uninhabited island before they are considered indigenous to these lands?

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u/These-Market-236 15d ago

Opinion or international law?

Opinion: It's subjective.

International law: There is no defined condition. It's per case based.

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u/Thecna2 16d ago

Most of which is irrelevant as in the modern era we rely almost entirely on the wishes of the occupants, not some obscure legalistic argument from several hundred years earlier. Backed up by firepower.

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u/Backsight-Foreskin 16d ago

in the modern era we rely almost entirely on the wishes of the occupants

Unless they are Palestinian.

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u/These-Market-236 16d ago edited 16d ago

?

I mean, what you are saying is just your opinion and it doesn't correspond with international law, nor with current diplomatic situation of the conflict. But -just for the sake of the argument- even if it was true, i don't get the point of your comment.

Keep in mind that I'm replaying to someone arguing that the Islanders and "Technically Indigenous", which they are not. "Technically" they are British settlers.

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u/eldankus 16d ago

His point is that in today’s world we generally respect people’s right to self determination and the current inhabitants chose to remain in the UK

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u/These-Market-236 16d ago

Which would be an oversimplification of the subject and beside the point still.

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u/eldankus 16d ago

It’s not really but I get that Argentinians and only Argentinians are still confused and worked up over the issue.

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u/HCBot 16d ago

The UK did not have such a profound relationship with Argentina out of any sense of comraderie. It was a relationship that, at least for argentines, was (and still is) seen as exploitative. Yes, a lot of the british investment made Argentina into one of the most developed latin american countries. But there was also a whole side of scamming, manipulation and violence. The british even invaded Buenos Aires (unsuccesfully), twice. Also, look up the Roca - Runciman pact.

The 1982 war was simply the final conflict in the two countries' overall conflicting history.

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u/blue_strat 16d ago

Though there was also significant British investment in the Atacama where they'd found saltpetre across Chile, Bolivia and Peru. You needed that for making fertilizers and explosives. After a war in the 1880s, Chile took most of the relevant territory as well as the last of Bolivia's coastline.

The first naval engagement of WW1 was between British and German ships off the coast of Chile, as the UK and Germany were the biggest investors in nitrate mines there, so the British had blockaded the ports. The loss of access to Chile forced Germany to invest in synthesising nitrates, leading the Haber-Bosch process which has saved millions of people from starvation, so that's something.

On a more light-hearted note:

It is little surprise that Valparaiso Wanderers, founded in 1892, is the oldest football club in Latin America – and that their fierce rivals are Everton de Viña del Mar, located just across the bay – each [Chilean team] founded by expatriate Britons.

https://engelsbergideas.com/essays/the-world-that-saltpetre-built/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process

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u/Fombleisawaggot 15d ago

iirc many post-independence Argentine intellectuals like Alberdi also actively sought ties with the UK as the English were the prime example of an industrial and intelligent people (as opposed to the Spanish)

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u/lagomorphi 16d ago

Welsh patagonia has always been fascinating to me

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u/Fututor_Maximus 16d ago

By the same standards as OP mentioned, but even more so in every way: Argentina is the most Italian country in Latin America. Even linguistically.

Food for thought.

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u/maskapony 16d ago

A great documentary, Seperado, is the story of Super Furry Animals singer, Gruff Rhys tracing his family history back to Patagonia.

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u/Intrepid_Beginning 16d ago

I agree. As a Peruvian of British descent, many Americans do not understand that British people also immigrated to Latin America (completely fair, we are a small minority).

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u/Whulad 15d ago

One of my grandmas brothers emigrated from Londoners to Peru during the 1st World War- the story is he jumped on a ship as he didn’t fancy going back to the trenches.

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u/Intrepid_Beginning 15d ago

Cool! My grandma survived the bombing of London and her family moved to Lima shortly thereafter. Then, my grandma moved back to London, went to university, travelled as a nurse throughout the Caribbean, then came back to Peru at age 35. She’s still here now.

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u/SummitSloth 16d ago

I'm going offtopic here but I just realized after reading your post that the Philadelphia metro area is Welsh AF with all of those names (Bryn mawr, uwchlan, Gwynedd, llarench, penllyn, bala cynwyd, North Wales, wynnewood, etc.). Interesting.

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u/miclugo 16d ago

William Penn invited Welsh-speaking Quakers to settle in that area - historically it's called the "Welsh Tract". It didn't really take but there was enough Welsh settlement to get the names on the land.

("Wynnewood" isn't Welsh, though, even though it rhymes with Cynwyd. It's named after Penn's physician, Thomas Wynne. Except it turns out Wynne was Welsh? So maybe it counts. The Wynnefield neighborhood of Philadelphia is also named for him.)

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u/lucylucylane 16d ago

Probably because they were the mining and steel making experts

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u/shortercrust 16d ago

Interesting! Do they all have the Welsh pronunciation?

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u/SummitSloth 15d ago

Yes mildly but "Americanized" if that makes sense

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u/roma258 15d ago

Philly resident, TIL!

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u/imagei 16d ago

I’m not convinced. Looking at the picture, for the true British feel they need to make the streets waay more narrow.

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u/Qyro 16d ago

Yeah this looks like it’s more at home in Donnie Darko than Britain.

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u/HCBot 16d ago

This is the widest cobbled street in Buenos Aires. All other streets around this neighbourhood (Belgrano R) are normal size. Also, consider Buenos Aires is a mostly planned city, with a grid layout. English cities are medieval and developed before the rise of cars. Most of what today is Buenos Aires was mostly fields just 200 years ago. But the british influence is definitely there (This neighbourhood was originally built for british migrants who came to work on the railroad) as is in many other Buenos Aires neighbourhoods (see: Coghlan, Barrio Inglés, Barracas)

I belive this street was originally planned to be a boulevard, hence the width. But don't quote me on that.

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u/webchimp32 16d ago

You could fit another row of houses in there.

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u/gangy86 Geography Enthusiast 16d ago

And bigger potholes

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u/idanthology 16d ago

For real, I'm just drooling at the scale of this, most of the 2 way roads in the area I live can just barely handle one vehicle's width comfortably, literally.

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u/The_39th_Step 16d ago

The rest of it I buy but the picture is so not British. I don’t know anywhere in the UK that looks like that

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u/xeroxchick 16d ago

What is the saying? Argentines (or is it Porteños?) are spaniards who dress like Englishmen, live like Frenchmen, and speak like Italians.

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u/GoDeacs7 16d ago

I believe it’s “Argentinians are Italians who speak Spanish, think they are French, and want to be English.”

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u/xeroxchick 16d ago

That’s it! Best of all worlds.

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u/Jealous-Nature837 15d ago

Argentina has more people of Italian descent than Spanish

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u/LupineChemist 15d ago

Shitload of Argentines in Spain on Italian passports

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u/PowerVulch 16d ago

I have roots in both the Patagonian Welsh community and the Buenos Aires Scottish community. My Welsh ancestors, as far as we know, were coal miners, some of whom even lived in the United States, in the Pittsburgh area, before learning of the newly available land in Patagonia in the 1870s. They helped settle the interior region of Chubut.

My Scottish ancestors include a soldier who served in World War I and then emigrated and married a local woman of Scottish descent.

Both of my Argentine grandparents spoke English, and my grandmother also spoke Welsh. They eventually moved to Uruguay when my mother was small, and she and her sisters attended the British School there. The family was also part of the British Society in Uruguay, and most of their friends were Anglos.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/Pera_Espinosa 16d ago

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Bland? I'd say it's less spice heavy than foods of other latin countries, but bland?

The same can be said of Italian food, which is by far the greatest cultural influence in Argentina, when comparing it to Asian cuisine. I wouldn't call it bland either.

Argentine food is mostly a mix of Italian, heavy Italian, meats/parrilladas it's so well known for, and Latin influence.

Popular Argentine dishes like parrilladas, empanadas, milanesa, or pastel de papas certainly aren't spice heavy in relation to other cuisines, and Argentinians certainly have a very low spice tolerance (for both heat and seasoning), but all these dishes are undeniably delicious and the word bland certainly doesn't come to mind when I think of them or any other typical Argentine foods.

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u/StalksOfRheum 15d ago

argentine food is pretty good I have to say. it's heavy stuff though so don't eat a lot in one sitting or you'll be knocked out for hours.

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u/nycago 16d ago

What neighborhood is pictured please ?

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u/MontroseRoyal Urban Geography 16d ago

Belgrano. Coghlan also has some British style homes

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u/iwantathink 16d ago

This is Avenida Melian, probably the most beautiful in Buenos Aires. The barrio is Belgrano. But this area in particular is called "el barrio de los ingleses", like the "English neighborhood". It's where the British settled as described in a comment above.

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u/abu_doubleu 16d ago

Chile has the British tea tradition! Unlike coffee in most of Latin America, and mate in the rest of the Southern Cone. But I think apart from that you are right.

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u/mellamoderek 16d ago

iirc Argentina has a tea culture as well. I remember going to a high tea service at a fancy hotel (in Recoleta, I think).

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u/Unlikely-Star-2696 16d ago

It is also the most Italianized country in the Americas

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u/Saoi_ 16d ago edited 16d ago

Some of the Irish influence in the south American nations is from the era of the Spanish empire and Irish priests, soldiers and administrators sought opportunities in Catholic Spain's empire of which they could get back home in a Protestant controlled Ireland, or the Protestant colonies in North America. That's how the O'Higgings family came to their position in Chile. Lynches in Argentina are similar and Che Guevara is a descendant. There's lots of Irish influence on Buenos Aires especially noticed in the Recoleta cemetery. 

Lots of Americans and Irish were involved in the independence movement from Spain - playing vital roles in early shipping connections to Buenos Aires (Guillermo Brown, for example) and became some the elite of the early days of the country/colony as there were great opportunities and not much Spanish settlers.

 The British had a complicated relationship with the area and were supportive of rebellion against Spain, but also frequently interfering militarily while also investing heavily in the new nation and nearby Uruguay, especially in farming and beef canning as they could use the country for beef exporting around the Atlantic world, and to feed the home nations. Anglo identity became influential in the elites - promoting polo and rugby. The developing railways brough brought more British engineers and workers. 

Then came huge waves of Italians and Germans and  the Anglo and Irish influence was overshadowed a bit. 

There was a big movement of Irish from the Irish counties of Westmeath, Meath, Offaly and Longford area of Ireland as there we're Irish priests who encourage settlement in the Catholic nation, rather than Protestant North America. Scandals about conditions aboard some shipping slowed a lot of Irish immigration. Some Argentinian Irish were influential in the Irish independence movement and the Southern Star Irish-Argentinian newspaper was very pro Irish. 

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Argentines#:~:text=Most%20of%20those%20who%20left,conditions%20were%20not%20the%20worst%20(

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u/BadChris666 16d ago

Between the mid-1800’s to the early 1900’s, the UK was the largest investor in the Argentine economy. The wealthy sent their kids to England for school. Argentina also had the largest UK expat community in the world.

That all changed after the Peron regime. He nationalized numerous UK companies in Argentina. Then you have the continued dispute over the Falklands.

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u/AdFederal5203 16d ago

I don’t know full details but…Immigration: Most people in Argentina are of pure European descent.

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u/FlygonSA 16d ago

There was very little immigration from the British isles to Argentina and most of them settled in small pockets in very specific places such as the Welsh colonies on Chubut province, most immigration was Italian and Spanish, with some smaller amounts of Germans, Russians, French and Croatians/Serbs.
As an Argentine i never met someone with British/English descent but i have met all of the mentioned above.

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u/bamadeo 16d ago

where are you from? I've met plenty Irish, scot or british descendants in BA

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u/FlygonSA 16d ago

I've never been to Buenos Aires but i have lived my entire life between small towns of Cordoba and Santa Fe, i know it kinda skews it a little bit but is still representative, only about 75k British immigrants are estimated to have ever come to Argentina, meanwhile Italians are up to 6 millions, that's about a 80x difference.

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u/HCBot 16d ago

It's true that most migrants came from Spain, Italy, Germany the Balcans and eastern europe. But there are still lots of british descendants in Argentina, especially in Buenos Aires, Santa Fe and the Patagonia. British surnames are fairly common, along with english names for cities, neighbourhoods, and streets.

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u/h8style84 16d ago

Not true. Around 60% have some indigenous descent (especially visible in the north). The immigrants mixed with the population that was already there so many are of immigrant descent mixed with natives and criollos (like my grandfather). There are also minorities of Arabic, Asian and African descent.

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u/Y0___0Y 16d ago

World War II caused a lot of European migration to Latin America.

Many Germans and Spanish fled to Argentina.

Also, many Japanese fled to Brazil.

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u/UpbeatFix7299 16d ago edited 16d ago

People were immigrating there long before WW2 because it was an economically booming country with a lot of land and was seen as an economic opportunity. The # of fleeing Nazis on the rat trail isn't even a rounding error compared to that. My great grandma's sister and her husband moved there from Denmark, I promise you they weren't Nazis on the run in the 1920s

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u/meldirlobor 16d ago edited 16d ago

Bullshit, It wasn't ww2 at all.

Europeans, namely italians, portuguese, spanish and germans migrated en masse to South America during the period immediately before and during the industrial revolution. Most were feudal rural workers who didn't have any more land to expand their families into and didn't want or couldn't go to the cities to be exploited on 18h+ shifts without any labor legislation.

More than 6 millions Italians left Italy for both South America (Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay) and the USA.

Back then, during the early 1900, Brazil had abolished slavery and needed rural workers to work the huge expanses of coffee plantations. White european migrants were offered land and opportunities to go to said countries. Another motivation in the case of Brazil, was to "whiten" the population which back then, was predominantly black and pardo from the centuries of slavery.

Also, the japanese arrived in Brazil in 1907, long before ww2 or even ww1.

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u/martian-teapot 16d ago edited 16d ago

Many Germans and Spanish fled to Argentina.

Also, many Japanese fled to Brazil.

Most Germans that went to South America went to Brazil, not Argentina, and that happened way before WW2.

Brazil's first empress was German/Austrian, which helped with the start of settlements in a region which was then sparsely populated (the South). The first colony, São Leopoldo, was established in 1824 (one century before WW2). Subsequently, other Germanic settlements were installed in places like Petrópolis and Blumenau, for example.

The same can be said for the Japanese (which emigrated en masse to Brazil after the US passed laws prohibiting/limiting Asian immigrants - something that also happened before WW2).

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u/ohniz87 16d ago

Actually the first germans went to Rio de Janeiro, not RS. They were sent to Nova Friburgo to colonize with the swiss.

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u/martian-teapot 16d ago

I should specify: I was referring to post-independence Brazil. But, overall, you are correct.

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u/HCBot 16d ago

Not true, the post ww2 inmigration wave in Argentina was the last and smallest one. Most of them came Before and during ww1, and the interwar period.

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u/Iola_Morton 16d ago

Photo looks more like a US burb, complete with fake Tudor bollocks

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u/MoPacSD40-2 16d ago

I mean, the Southern cone (🇦🇷🇨🇱🇺🇾) is majority white

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u/DnJohn1453 16d ago

I was going to say, the most German country in South America.

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u/7urz 16d ago

Also the most Italian country in South America.

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u/Fluffy_Town 15d ago

Not surprising since a lot of the reich went there to escape extradition.

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u/juant675 Political Geography 16d ago

Almost.nome influence from Germany

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u/epileftric 16d ago

Oddly enough you can move between neighborhoods and you'll find another German, French, Italian or Spanish styled houses.

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u/MontroseRoyal Urban Geography 16d ago

One small correction on my part: Tower of the English was NOT renamed to Tower of the Malvinas. Instead it was actually renamed to Tower Monumental, but still because the Falklands War

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u/iwantathink 16d ago

This is Avenida Melian in Buenos Aires, one of the most beautiful in Buenos Aires. Near the corner of echeverria. In the "barrio de los ingleses" (oficially Belgrano R)

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u/mologav 16d ago

The big ugly truck really takes away the European look anyway

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u/jatmecs 16d ago

It’s also the most British looking thing in the photo

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u/GoDeacs7 16d ago

“Argentinians are Italians who speak Spanish, think they are French, and want to be English.”

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u/RealAyhan 16d ago

This is actually so beautiful

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u/Maximum-County-1061 16d ago

fascinating read

also - the town called Murphy - where M Pochettino was born

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u/damianp67 16d ago

And most Italian by decent outside of Italy.

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u/CormoranNeoTropical 16d ago

Argentinians are (or maybe they were, could be a past generation thing) huge Anglophiles. I think because up through the mid-20th Argentina was a wealthy country and rich people globally in that period tended to be Anglophile?

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u/NewChinaHand 16d ago

Remember the aristocrats in Evita?

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u/CharleyNobody 16d ago

These towns or people not allowed to call themselves “English,” “Scottish,” “Irish” or “Welsh” unless they were born in and live in England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales.

Those are the Reddit rules.

Because if an American says they're “Italian” or “French” they are lambasted. ”You are not! You aren't any of those things! You’re American and it’s an insult to other ethnicities to call yourself anything but American!”

Hey, rules is rules. They're Argentinian and that’s that.

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u/whistlar 16d ago

Heard there’s a pretty large community of elderly Germans there too.

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u/Ishkabibble54 16d ago

Argentina was somewhere in the top five wealthiest countries in 1900 and has been more or less in a steady decline since. The First World War and the disruption of beef exports set the decline in motion.

It also has the largest proportion of its population from European countries other than Spain, so that makes it more European than colonial in the Argentine psyche. (Also, indigenous peoples are a tiny minority , without the mixing that occurred in many Latin countries.) Its biggest export market was at one time Britain, and Britain was the wealthiest European country during the time that Argentina prospered, so there was elements of transference and disassociation from the “backward” countries on the continent.

My personal experience as a Miamian with friends and colleagues of various Latin nationalities is that without doubt the one nationality loathed by other Latin people is Argentina. (#2 would be Cuba.)

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u/javoza 15d ago

"Il est riche comme un Argentin!" ("as rich as an Argentine"... I common expression in the late 1800s)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_Centennial

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u/Brian012381 15d ago

Irish monks came to Argentina and introduced them to rugby!

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u/pjs2276 15d ago

Isn’t it more German?? You know from all the nazis going there

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u/gimnasium_mankind 12d ago

You could make a ton of money investing on the first railway that went to the heart of one of the most fertile lands in the world (the Pampas). So many people did. Who had extra cash laying around, experience in railroads and doing businesses in far away lands? The british did, so many pourednin their loans and shares to build the massive Argentine railroad system to bring loads of grain and meat from the Pampas to the Buenos Aires port.

Snowball effect and you get sunflower oil refineries, canned food, freezers for meat, lesther industries…. Industrial revolution of sorts… you get lod and loads of european immigrants, you get a big middle class… it snowballs. Banking, railroads and a few other things stayed british, they saw it as a kind of an informal part of the empire sometimes. Some people had their families here. They brought football (soccer) which had consequences down the line. Theybeven sent a squad to fight in WW1 I think.

But… it is also just one of many european collectives in Argentina. The irish, being catholic, are also as numerous I’d say. And they are all dwarved by the italians. But many from all corners of the Austrian empire, the Russian empire, even the Ottoman empire, went. All had their histories. Polish people have a link to yerba mate production for example. Basques in dairy products. The british had this link to railroads and banking.

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u/mbullaris 16d ago

Presumably Guyana would be by some definitions.

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u/A11osaurus1 16d ago

Guyana isn't included in Latin America

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u/mbullaris 16d ago

Yeah, good point actually.

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u/manored78 16d ago

This is odd. When I traveled to Chile, the natives were telling me that they’re the Brits of LatAm. Argentina always struck me as being the Paris/Italy of LatAm.

Everything about Chile screamed to me that they wanted to replicate the UK, right down to it’s rigged class system.

British and German ex-pats have had a huge impact on Chilean society, more so than in Argentina.

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u/tarantinquarantina 15d ago

As a Chilean with Scots/Irish ancestry who went to a fully British school and grew up drinking copious amounts of “tecito”, yes!

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u/foofede 16d ago

The British used to have a lot more influence in the region.

We had to kick them off the country a few times (not always successful aka Malvinas).

Our first big loan was with the Baring Brothers, I believe they made the roads (we used to drive on the left), and they also made and run our railroads so that's why they still go on the left side even though we drive on the right side and why we have so many neighborhoods with british architecture and names since those were the places where the people that worked on the railroad lived.

There's also sprinkles of their culture spread all around the country, when I was young it was common to study the language at "Culturales Inglesas" aka english culture houses and there's quite a few of towns which their inhabitants are from british descent. A few years ago I made a trip to the old family house of a friend of mine that's from british descent and was really bizzarre to find a british boarding school in the middle of Cordoba and most of the pople nearby were blond and with light colored eyes.

IIRC the Harrods license is still active but remains unused.

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u/lucylucylane 16d ago

Britain basically built its beef industry building railways ports etc. although it wasn’t a British colony it was heavily influenced by it and the rich wanted to emulate it hence rugby and polo being so popular

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u/WiseBelt8935 16d ago

wouldn't it be the falklands?

can't be more British then British

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u/A11osaurus1 16d ago

The Falklands isn't a country, and isn't in Latin America

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u/60sstuff 16d ago

Change the trees and it reminds me a lot of a street near my house. Obviously it’s not going to be 1:1. But I have definitely seen a lot of very European stuff in Argentina. A know a big Welsh community is in the area

https://preview.redd.it/75rhyq5tza6e1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d1228ef5a1750ef57032eea2400c5bb86113490

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u/quebexer 16d ago

I would think that Uruguay is also very British since they were created by the Brits.

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u/xxnozoxx 16d ago

Argentina is the most European country in Latin America aside from maybe Uruguay. Their 19th century immigration history is very similar to the US and Canada. Argentina and the UK also had very strong trade ties before the British started prioritizing the commonwealth countries

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u/SkillWizard 16d ago

That is the least British looking street I have seen for a while yeah. Looks lovely though the point possibly remains true. Want to visit!

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