Why isn't there a bridge between Sicily and continental Italy?

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u/chinese_bun_666 Jul 03 '24 edited Jul 03 '24

The Strait bridge is actually a really discussed issue here in Italy. There are a series of different issues:

The strait stands between two tectonic plates, so it's a geologically difficult area (see the 1908 Messina earthquake)
The sea is very deep, which means this bridge would be the longest suspension bridge in the world.
Though the need of a technologically advanced costruction, this feat could be achieved and we already have a project, but it's very expensive. The strait and Sicily in general is however plagued by Mafia, so it is assumed that such a big project would just be good for the Mafia's pocket. That's why italian public opinion is generally against its construction
Political division means that every change of government is equal to a change of mind about the bridge. In the last 20-30 years the project has been picked up and abandoned every now and then. Recently it's been picked up again by the current government, so it's in a "go" phase. But I don't think it will ever happen
Sicily's infrastructure is terrible, so everyone in Sicily is basically against the bridge, rather asking for the money to be invested in highways and train lines. So again, very divisive public opinion

Edit: I see that many are curious about the mafia situation lol. In Italy we call "Mafia" only the sicilian organized crime, while other regions have their own (Camorra, 'Ndrangheta). The Mafia was very active in the '80-'90 with threats and killings, while as of today it has switched to a more sneaky approach, keeping a low profile and infiltrating projects where the money are.... which is exactly why everyone knows the bridge is exactly what they want (Source: my grandad was an anti-mafia prosecutor in Messina)

Edit 2: I didn't want this comment to be too long but I see many are asking for the same questions so i'll shortly specify 2 things: - About point 2, deep sea means that the bridge cannot have foundations on water, and must rather be a single bridge span from land to land - About point 3, organized crime do want the project to start but do not want the bridge itself. Something typical is that after the project starts there is delay after delay until a politician stops the project because too expensive. In the meantime millions or billions were invested and where have they gone?

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u/piterfraszka Jul 03 '24

Don't quote me on that but back at university (a decade ago or something) my 'roads and bridges building' (auxiliary subject for architects) professor told us that designed bridge over Messina Strait if constructed would have nearly the longest possible span possible with currently used materials. It would use 97% of it's strength just to support it's own mass and only 3% free to support traffic on it (which is still a lot of strength but small percentage).

I can't find the source and maybe I'm wrong. If someone can say more or correct me I'd be happy.

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u/Dry_Pick_304 Jul 03 '24

A design has been approved, and is due to begin construction this year.

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u/Ginzelini Jul 03 '24

When crossing last year I thought the exact same, but then realizing it would be a waste of the experience of crossing the strait! For anyone who hasn’t; the train that runs all the way from the north of Italy to Catania they drive onto a ferry that takes you across to then continue again by train. While on the ferry you can leave the train and go sit on the ferry. It’s hilarious, over the top, and so wonderfully Italian.

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u/Livid_Ad9749 Jul 03 '24

There was multiple times but Scylla keeps destroying it

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

[deleted]

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u/Culzean_Castle_Is Jul 03 '24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Messina_Bridge

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u/wicked_lil_prov Jul 03 '24

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u/AlexMiDerGrosse Jul 03 '24

Because of Scylla and Charybdis

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u/the_badg Jul 03 '24

Opinion of someone born and raised between Messina and Reggio Calabria (the two cities that could be connected by the discussed bridge).

There are many reasons why it could be made and many more on why it wasn’t ever done. Other people explained it really well in the comments. I want to focus on why we don’t want it.

We don’t want it cause it would link two areas where there are not quality streets or public transportations. We find useless to spend years and millions of euros in public money to build a cathedral in the desert.

We had a somewhat good plan 10 to 20 years ago: to upgrade trains and roads in both Sicily and Calabria and only after that to connect the two sides.

Today we are discussing to build the bridge without doing anything else. We are talking of a high speed train passage built in a bridge that would connect two low speed train lines.

We are afraid Italy doesn’t have the government continuity and the organisation to do such a big project (others explained well why it would be a world record bridge).

We are afraid the bridge construction will begin and never finish, destroying a lot of building to make space for it and leaving as a ecomonster without a mean other than ruining the the environment.

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u/teo_vas Jul 03 '24

I built it countless times in Railroad Tycoon 3 ^tm

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u/PrincessKenny1 Jul 03 '24

Went on a cruise last year in the Mediterranean and docked in mesina. Our tour guide said a bridge had been planned for years but each change of their local leaders gets a bribe from the mafia/somehow forgets about it, they control the crossing as they own all the vessels that ferry people back and forth. Just about money im afraid.

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u/Impossible_Nose8924 Jul 03 '24 edited Jul 03 '24

My guess? Mafia control of the construction industry. Not trying to be snarky, I really wouldn't be surprised if that's why the political will to undertake a project like that has never occurred.

Edit: I guess it's happening now, so just mentally change the last sentence to took so long to happen.

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u/METALFOTO Jul 03 '24 edited Jul 03 '24

Many reasons.

Honestly will be cool, this 2 thousands years old project is so fascinating, yet there are many cons.

ferry needs literally 30 minutes, and you go from Reggio downtown to Messina downtown. If you are on the train, train goes on the ferry. The weird shape of the Messina Sicily's eastern corner will not help, longer bending ramps to the bridge will be needed, and you'll need more than 30 minutes to go from downtown to downtown.
the traffic it's not that huge, actually is 8k vehicles daily, projections say even with the new hipotetical bridge done, will attract max 10k-20k vehicles daily; Golden gate bridge has 100k daily traffic, Oakland bay bridge 260k.
some say may be better fix first the trains in Sicily, Messina - Palermo is 200km and by train you need 3 hours.
some of the largest container ships coming from Suez goin Gioia / Naples / Genoa (one of the busiest route in the world) will not fit under the bridge, now with increasing oil prices and new shipbuilding technology, ships are becoming gigantic. So finally cargo shippers will choose other ports like Marseille, resulting in million dollars contracts loss for national ports, for what?
Last but not least, jobs it's a myth. 10 billion investment is big, international stakeholders will be needed, that will adopt some HK based Lawyers Firm or whatever contractor loophole, for south east asian welders / workers and so on, as they cost less..

EDIT, LINKS:

https://www.open.online/2024/05/03/ponte-stretto-messina-navi-crociera-container/

https://www.today.it/attualita/ponte-sullo-stretto-troppo-basso-navi-crociera-container.html

https://www.lacnews24.it/cronaca/il-ponte-e-troppo-basso-per-le-navi-portacontainer-piu-grandi-il-porto-di-gioia-rischia-di-perdere-25-miliardi-all-anno_189428/

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u/Llewellian Jul 03 '24

Aside from the tectonic plate situation with the earthquakes and the really deep water.... and the Mafia filling their pockets... i'd like to throw in a HUUUGE volcano that lets rain ash and sometimes stones in that general area.

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u/theonlyscurtis Jul 03 '24

This video by The B1M discusses the subject: https://youtu.be/Rqx0RH7cUY8

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u/inthevendingmachine Jul 04 '24

The Sicilians wanted one, but the mainlanders gave them the boot.

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u/Awkward_Bench123 Jul 03 '24

Um, this beats the worlds longest suspension bridges by almost twice. And Gibraltar would be 4 times that.

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u/unsinkable88 Jul 03 '24

Don't be so cily.

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u/LeoBKB Jul 03 '24

The problem is the two tectonic plates actually move apart. Would you build a bridge which will collapse shortly?

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

EARTHQUAKES.

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u/the_eluder Jul 03 '24

Charybdis and Scylla

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u/elqrd Jul 04 '24

I still don’t understand how Italy can be part of Europe given that the mafia is so prominent

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u/ImprovementOk6181 Jul 03 '24

OP is Matteo Salvini

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u/yyz2112zyy Jul 03 '24

Nice try Salvini!

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

The first reason is that the Messina bridge is a political mcguffin to get votes. Simple as.

The second reason is that the Messina strait is an horrible area to build a bridge, since the sea is fairly deep there and there is alot of vulcanic activity in that area.

The third reason is that the project is really expensive

the fourth reason is that the regions involved, especially Sicily, have a real problem with organized crime. They will totally infiltrate the operation to get some gains and f*ck up something.

The last and most important reason is: it's a waste of money. To put it really short: you're trying to make one of the most expensive and challenging bridges ever for 2 regions that have the infrastructures of a balkan country and zero prospect of economical gains because there's basically nothing there economically speaking

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u/tharnadar Jul 03 '24

For a moment I thought it was r/mapporncirclejerk and you were joking on us about "Ponte sullo Stretto".

Because it's about 3 km lenght, green parties doesn't want that because Stretto di Messina is an important gateway for tuna and other species, people who work on ferries don't want that for obvious reasons, people in continental Italy don't want that because it will be extremely expensive and build by Mafia...

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u/bascom2222 Jul 03 '24

Lots of $$ in ferry systems. Dad worked for A family that originally built them had owned farm in USA that was almost 70,000 acres and A million acre cattle ranch in Brazil and Argentina. Big $$ in ferry's .

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u/Pikablu555 Jul 03 '24

I was on a cruise and sailed through the Strait of Messina and I was shocked how close Sicily and Mainland Italy looked. Living in the USA (in CA) but being aware of the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway it seems like it should be an easy project for Italy. However, being from California we can’t even get a train system in place to take people from SF to LA, so I get how bureaucratic these things can become.

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u/Zealousideal-Sea678 Jul 04 '24

They are playing gay chicken leave them alone

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u/UnfairFreedom Jul 04 '24

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Messina_Bridge

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u/perriatric Jul 04 '24

That’s a really good question. It’s just 3 km.

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u/rememberdan13 Jul 04 '24

Lived in Sicily from 1997 to 2000 and loved taking the ferry.

Why isn't there a bridge between Sicily and continental Italy? Discussion