r/communism • u/arfyhex • 4d ago
Any tips for short-tempered people?
I just watched a video on South Korea and I feel like tearing my hair out after the first couple of minutes. How can things like this happen and yet people still say that capitalism is the greatest economic system we have and condemn people for believing that there is a way to solve these problems?
I am so tired of people seeing things that are meant to bring class consciousness but instead blame it on Jews or immigrants and so forth. Karl Marx has written multiple books a hundred years ago and revolutionaries from all over the world have talked about it but people still don't listen.
Every now and then I come across a common problem that is caused by capitalism (e.g.: abundance of advertisements, poor public transportation) and I feel like going on a rant. I feel like my friends don't like being around me because I keep getting political.
Are there any tips to calm down and/or maintain hope that things will get better?
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u/Flamez_007 "Cheesed" 4d ago
I was gonna be silly and say something like get better friends or just read a book instead of watching youtube videos from German leftist-conspiracy theorists but now I'm starting to realize what Smokes meant long ago that the reality of people's beliefs lies in the media or "content" they consume out in the open.
Have you seen the "discussions" (it's more like ideological comment spam really) under the video from the link you posted)? Do you think it's absolutely wild that even within the limitations of youtuber Simplicissismus's liberalism (South Korea is corrupt and we as a community ought to have discussions surrounding this phenomena), the top comments with the most likes are the ones that sarcastically compliment the peninsula as having "two dystopias" or the ones that are only able to conceive North and South Korea with their own historical development in terms of overdone internet memes and video games?
And then when you venture into the comment threads below those top comments, you have all sorts of weird gunk from people (and I believe these users are people and not bots, I'm not subscribed to that whole Dead Internet Theory) which range from humanist admonishments of South Korean society to isolated demands for South Korean democracy to hold their "elites" accountable like in the United States or otherwise, well-they might end up like North Korea!
I mean, how else can you explain the MV Sewol Disaster of 2014? It was a situation where good people did nothing and bad people corrupted the apparatus responsible for the ferry to move correctly!? Those poor innocent children, apolitical figures who could've been vital for the South Korean economy but now lost to ocean waves, at the whim of mega-corporations (not monopolies, that term implies a historical tendency of capitalism which can be analyzed) like Samsung!
I am so tired of people seeing things that are meant to bring class consciousness but instead blame it on Jews or immigrants and so forth. Karl Marx has written multiple books a hundred years ago and revolutionaries from all over the world have talked about it but people still don't listen.
And do you notice that your understanding of class-consciousness isn't that far removed from these leftist-conspiracy theorists-that is to say that you believe class-consciousness (or lack thereof) among "people" is a matter of how many people "are in the know" or "able to understand" like you do? That all "people" need is just more discussions in the void?
No wonder you lose your temper then.
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u/urbaseddad Cyprus🇨🇾 4d ago
Very well put. In many cases such frustration comes from liberalism. The other source I've noticed is the inability to, or lack of understanding of how to, do proper communist politics. OP suffers from both and in this case the latter is a direct result of the former. I will say though that I think this could be a necessary stage for lone communists to pass through. u/HeadCartoonist2626 mentioned priorities but such priorities aren't revealed to us through divine enlightenment. As you engage with theory and practice, assuming you really are focused on the important goal (making revolution), you start to understand where your priorities lie.
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u/red_star_erika 4d ago
Very well put. In many cases such frustration comes from liberalism.
while the other points were correct, correlating correctness with an ability to keep emotions under control is liberalism. do you not ever think being a Marxist is super frustrating?
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u/Flamez_007 "Cheesed" 4d ago
I mean, I remember walking into a poli-sci course in session by chance because I needed some place to eat my chicken and beans in solitude and as a Marxist (a very shit one admittedly)-it was genuinely agonizing.
These are very intelligent people mind you, at least ones that have the privilege to spend time reading books, establish extensive relationships with other members of their class, and some of them even studied the hard sciences (chemistry I think).
And yet when the professor came around and the students were asked to explore the subject of "political polarization in America" that was genuinely where I wanted to die. I will never forget when I sarcastically mentioned that "our two political parties need to reach across the aisles when the nation needs them the most, like during the Cambodian bombing campaign of the 70s" and this one guy (he wore a little american flag cap funny enough), looks at me dead in the eyes and goes, "yeah man, that's what I'm talking about!"
But my point being is that if I practiced liberalism on that day, I probably would've killed someone or more realistically get sent to the behavioral counseling building and a bad mark on my record. That is to say, if I debated with a person who clearly doesn't believe Cambodians are people, let alone someone would be receptive of a history in which American black proletarians didn't sing "I like to buy the world a coke" after 1965.
It's less frustrating to reject liberalism and it would've been less frustrating for me had I just walked out that building in general, chicken be damned.
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u/red_star_erika 4d ago
But my point being is that if I practiced liberalism on that day, I probably would've killed someone or more realistically get sent to the behavioral counseling building and a bad mark on my record.
what do you think happens during a revolutionary situation? what would be liberal about screaming at that guy or hitting him? I fail to see how letting that comment slide is the negation of liberalism. most liberals do just that in order to not disrupt the false peace.
let alone someone would be receptive of a history in which American black proletarians didn't sing "I like to buy the world a coke" after 1965
what are you talking about?
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u/Flamez_007 "Cheesed" 4d ago
what do you think happens during a revolutionary situation? what would be liberal about screaming at that guy or hitting him? I fail to see how letting that comment slide is the negation of liberalism. most liberals do just that in order to not disrupt the false peace.
It's a college classroom, it's not a communist organization in which a party member who practices liberalism out in the open without being checked would be seriously detrimental to the intellectual, political life of the party. Whether I pull an epic Marxist dunk by rhetorically owning someone in a classroom due to my principles or not, it's inconsequential.
what are you talking about?
1965 was when the Voting Rights Act was passed and signed by U.S President Lyndon B. Johnson. The professor and students, including the guy I mentioned, claimed that racial polarization had been quelled in the country through the democratic reformism and civil disobedience-practices embodied in that very legal document, such concepts they seldom see now being discussed in the "Palestine Student Movement" which is why polarization is back in 21st Century America (due to a lack of dialogue and online echo-chamber radicalization they claim).
I did mention that the existence of the Black Liberation Army and Black Panthers, off to the side of the MLK Riots of 1968 entailed an existence of limitations to electoral reforms in that class-to which one student responded with "yeah but we're not talking about that though."
If I wasn't clear, I apologize.
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u/red_star_erika 4d ago
Whether I pull an epic Marxist dunk by rhetorically owning someone in a classroom due to my principles or not, it's inconsequential.
ok so then what makes doing so liberalism? I don't personally care whether you said anything to him or not, you made the claim that losing one's temper is a sign of liberalism. I imagine there are plenty of people as advanced as you who wouldn't have been able to shrug off that comment so easily. if someone else in the classroom began to criticize him, would you not stand up for them?
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u/Flamez_007 "Cheesed" 4d ago
If someone else in the classroom began to criticize him, would you not stand up for them?
Yes? My claim isn't that getting emotional is a sign of liberalism, my claim is that liberals or individuals who adopt liberal politics will be perpetually upset and lose their temper over reality itself, like the OP getting upset over not being able to spread class consciousness through dialogue with friends in the void.
But I accept the criticism by you and Hunter that performing inaction in the face of repugnant liberalism by saying "yeah well, it's a classroom not a party so it doesn't matter" is just liberalism in itself. So thank you for this.
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u/wubdubbud 4d ago
I still don't get what the hell any of that has to do with liberalism? If you lose your temper fast or not is a matter of your personality and maybe also mental health but not ideology. Being upset about not being able to spread your views is a pretty normal thing imo no matter what your political views are. Isn't everyone passionate about spreading their opinions and convincing others of the things they believe will make the world a better place out of love for humanity.?
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u/Flamez_007 "Cheesed" 3d ago
I still don't get what the hell any of that has to do with liberalism? If you lose your temper fast or not is a matter of your personality and maybe also mental health but not ideology. Being upset about not being able to spread your views is a pretty normal thing imo no matter what your political views are. Isn't everyone passionate about spreading their opinions and convincing others of the things they believe will make the world a better place out of love for humanity.?
I accept Hunter's and Erika's criticism because the behavior I described that i performed in the past (doing nothing in the face of repugnant liberalism to maintain false peace) is liberalism in itself, that's both a thing Mao said and historically a dangerous tendency among petite-bourgeois radicals inside a communist party.
But you're making an analysis of someone (OP) losing their temper over practicing ineffective politics (liberalism) on a basis of "what's going on with them personally" (personality and mental health). That's just not interesting, and you're not the first one to do this.
Isn't everyone passionate about spreading their opinions and convincing others of the things they believe will make the world a better place out of love for humanity?
Anarchists love humanity (well, if we ignore Nestor Makhno, Petr Kropotkin, Ted K, and the celebrity Luigi, to name a few of almost every Anarchist who implicitly reject history) but after 150 years of horizontal leadership and a politics of advocation for petty-production, the anarchist mode of interpreting reality is just wrong and they deserve to be violently bullied (like what the MIM did according to Hunter).
The establishing of a dictatorship of the proletariat, tyranny against the forces of reaction, that's going to make the world a horrible place for an increasingly smaller population of the world (the millions of kulaks, comprador bourgeoisie, settler petite-bourgeois, labor aristocrats, etc) but we don't give a shit about them (at least not their class interests) because by historical necessity, they will disappear as the rest of the world's population in the billions consisting of revolutionary proletariat and peasants, will usher in a superior mode of production. And emphasis on historical necessity, the conscious coordination of millions of people in production is just superior to the anarchy of the free market which can only produce parasites, financial crisis, and imperialist wars and has been demonstrated through the existence of the USSR and Red China, no one on here is a Marxist by the basis of "loving humanity" alone.
Also Marxism is not an opinion, it's just the truth.
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u/Particular-Hunter586 4d ago edited 4d ago
I have to butt in to say that this exchange reminds me of a discussion I saw between a couple users on here back during the encampments (which I only foggily remember, forgive me) about how some users hadn't gone at all because they were pre-convinced of the uselessness due to the settler-liberal nature, and others had gone but had been apathetic in actually speaking out against the liberal rhetoric in the encampments themselves, having anticipated it and understanding its basis in class. I think about that a lot, honestly - a question I have trouble answering is "when is it worth pushing back, debating, calling out liberalism?".
Everyone on here understands that there's no possibility of debating or shaming liberal settler-aristocrats into Marxism, but is there a place for the instinctive responses of anger and violence (whether those are abated or intensified by an understanding of the class standpoint of the liberals rather than some knee-jerk response of "those people are just stupid" or "I can't believe how evil people can be")? MIM used to do agitation at bourgeois-feminist parades and pride marches, and table at lifestyle-anarchist punk festivals; this is anecdotal, but I've found close real-life comrades by getting in semi-public fights with former friends about the 2024 eleKKKtion.
I'm inclined to agree with you that oftentimes saying "well, I understand Marxism well enough to understand that these are a bunch of petit-bourgeois fascists, I'm going to let their comments slide and not lose my temper" is a form of liberalism in and of itself. But I don't know what the answer is; obviously I'm not going to make a point of going to econ or history classes just to yell at liberals for their obvious self-contradictory, chauvinist, and racist remarks.
With the coke comment, I think flamez is riffing on this apical example of kumbaya-style multicultural liberalism of the 60s.
E: I meant feminist protests but I think my typo was more apt.
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u/Sea_Till9977 3d ago
I believe me constantly pushing back with my "marxist" ( put it in quotes because I am in the process of learning marxism, and months ago it barely started and I had a very base level understanding) analysis against various planned liberal actions, ideas, Zionist normalising language in statements etc was required. At the very least 2-3 people (out of many many other people of course) have rejected the mainstream Zionist normalising ideology and are on a more productive path as a result.
Maybe i'm just spewing idealism, but I believe we have a responsibility to intervene if we have the ability to. And no offence, but people should be able to intervene in university Palestine solidarity coalitions and groups. Also, it is good practice for petty-bourgeois cowards to do the basic level 1 action of speaking out against other petty bourgeois friends and acquantainces, and be fine with losing connections over it. I was very often anxious to challenge people but I made myself do it many times (and didn't at other crucial times too which I heavily regret now) and it made me a better person as a result.
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u/Otelo_ 3d ago
If I can offer my personal experience, I would say that intervening in public does not have at all to be about convincing or "owning" the fascist or liberal that is talking nonsense. Most of the times, for me, I would say that the point is to let the people who aren't speaking (because they are afraid of backlash or because they can't yet articulate their instinct that something is wrong into arguments) know that there is someone who doesn't agree with what is being said, that someone is willing to stand up for that, and that there is an alternative.
In this scenarios, I would understand that what a teacher or other student was saying was wrong, but I coulnd't exactly explain why. Hearing others articulate what I feel and "thought" (since it wasn't yet a thought, like I said more like an instinct) made me feel not alone and made me search for more information.
So I would say that, at least in some situations, it is important to get into arguments. More for captivating those that are silent than to convince the fascist/liberal that we are arguing with. And I say this against myself, since overall I tend to avoid confrontations in my day to day life, althought I recognize that as a flaw for a communist and am trying to change that.
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u/urbaseddad Cyprus🇨🇾 4d ago edited 4d ago
keep emotions under control
I'm not talking about "emotional regulation".
do you not ever think being a Marxist is super frustrating?
No. It's the opposite, it's not being a good enough Marxist when the situation demands it that ends up being a big source of frustration for me.
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u/red_star_erika 4d ago
what I mean is that if op did educate themselves to become a better Marxist, they would probably still be finding themselves upset but for different reasons so the snark response of "heh... no wonder you lose your temper" is both misleading and offensive.
and what you said is still a frustration that comes with being a Marxist since nobody can be a perfect Marxist. and personally, I get upset over things even if my knowledge dictates that I shouldn't because I don't think emotions are 100% rational.
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u/urbaseddad Cyprus🇨🇾 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think you didn't understand my post and are putting more meaning into it than there is. I didn't say that Marxists don't get upset or don't have emotions or have, what some people -probably just liberal psychology types- call, "emotional regulation". I said that when people experience frustration like the OP's and perhaps more broadly frustration -a distinct emotion from simply being upset- it is many times a result of not being able to understand and hence intervene in reality, something which requires Marxism. Keywords also being "many times". Not "most times" or "always"; not because I know for sure that the latter two terms would be incorrect, but because I don't know for sure that they would be correct. Also I don't believe there was any snark in my response.
I get upset over things even if my knowledge dictates that I shouldn't because I don't think emotions are 100% rational
Again, I'm not making any claims about "emotional regulation".
and what you said is still a frustration that comes with being a Marxist
As I said, frustration, at least in such cases, comes from not being a good enough Marxist. If you understand reality and know how to change it you would not feel frustration. You may still face defeats and feel upset but frustration is something else. The OP faces an all too familiar to me frustration.
nobody can be a perfect Marxist
The truth is Marxism and being a bad Marxist means being wrong means not being a Marxist at all. There is no such thing as perfect Marxism, there is only Marxism and not Marxism. To me your argument sounds like the philosophical position some people have that says people can only approach or estimate the truth but never fully determine it. From my understanding that is not the Marxist position.
Edit: I somewhat sympathize when it comes to trying to challenge posts made for the sake of "owning" people which serve to terminate Marxist thought. Not that it happens in this sub unlike the rest of Reddit, but perhaps it could happen. However I think in this instance your energy is misplaced.
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u/red_star_erika 3d ago
Also I don't believe there was any snark in my response.
I was referring to the original post by u/Flamez_007 when I said this. my bad.
The truth is Marxism and being a bad Marxist means being wrong means not being a Marxist at all. There is no such thing as perfect Marxism, there is only Marxism and not Marxism.
no single individual can have a full grasp on the truth which is why communists work in concert with each other with free criticism and implementation of a mass line.
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u/urbaseddad Cyprus🇨🇾 3d ago
No wonder you lose your temper then.
I don't know, in my mind this could very well simply be a factual statement. It is indeed no wonder that inability to understand and change the world leads to frustration and subsequent emotional outburst as a result of that frustration. How do you differentiate if it's snark? The fact u/Flamez_007 actually tried to explain things to and help OP makes me think they were not being snarky.
no single individual can have a full grasp on the truth which is why communists work in concert with each other with free criticism and implementation of a mass line.
Saying that the truth can only be reached through group effort and / or consensus is a more developed position than saying that no one can fully grasp the truth (which as I said is what your argument seemed like). But I'm still not sure if it's correct, or perhaps it is but is simply not useful because no one ever engages with reality as an individual in a vacuum. Of course being able to understand the world as an individual presupposes building your understanding on top of the work of others, but Marxism already contains that within itself. So I think it is possible for someone to be a correct Marxist by themselves, but this doesn't imply that they've arrived at every truth independently, only that going forward they can make some correct assessments by themselves.
Regardless, this doesn't change my fundamental claim. No matter how Marxism is reached, I insist that it is the inability to be a Marxist which causes feelings of frustration, at least in cases like OP's.
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u/red_star_erika 3d ago
your position would rely on there being a boundary on what constitutes "truth". I do not believe that there is an innate separation of Marxism from the other sciences just like there isn't an innate separation of chemistry from biology or physics and since the universe is so vast, there are things which no human knows. for someone to fully understand the truth in this case would require omniscience. if we then set the boundary onto purely societal matters as Marxism is typically understood there are still things that aren't immediately solved, such as the the thing which gave us a higher stage of Marxism (the GPCR) also failing. you can purport a hypothesis as to why it failed but only in overcoming it through practice can that hypothesis be confirmed. and since revolution is inherently a collective effort, a single person cannot do this. like all science, Marxism is in constant development and your position would imply that Marxism is static and could be grasped entirely by reading books and such.
my position is that humanity does not yet have the full truth and the best thing for a communist to do would be to "pool" knowledge through a collective which then expands access to the truth through practice.
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u/urbaseddad Cyprus🇨🇾 3d ago
like all science, Marxism is in constant development and your position would imply that Marxism is static and could be grasped entirely by reading books and such.
Perhaps there is some merit to this criticism but unfortunately I feel like I am starting to get out of my depth.
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u/Particular-Hunter586 3d ago edited 3d ago
Being wrong does not mean "not being a Marxist at all"; I don't have as solid an understanding of the philosophical nature of this error as u/IncompetentFoliage does, but the history of Marxism is the history of each of the heads building on each other and correcting the other's errors. Marx was wrong (overestimating, at the very least) about the reactionary nature of the peasantry, as Lenin proved; Mao recognizing and working to correct Stalin's errors (as he himself said; I'm not doing some "Mao was good and Stalin was bad" western-Maoist-anarchist thing) was a critical factor in the heights reached by the Chinese revolution. And while we're at it, I would guess that the plurality, if not the outright majority, of the time that someone on this subreddit calls someone else "wrong and non-Marxist" (correctly!), it's because they fail to recognize the reactionary character of the vast majority of the First World. But Mao himself (as well as Sison and Gonzalo) made this same error, and it was an error (I see people dismiss it sometimes with "well they just couldn't have known better", as though each of those three didn't have extensive contact with First World communist parties). Though Marxism is truth and to be anti-Marxist is to be wrong, "being wrong means not being a Marxist at all" discounts the fact that even the most capable revolutionary Marxist leader is oftentimes wrong for many reasons.
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u/Sea_Till9977 3d ago edited 3d ago
I agree with everything you said and I basically would have commented the same thing but didn't because it feels lazy at this point. Posts like these are constant here and opinions like this in real life but it feels like an 'easy dunk' in a way?
But the part I vehemently, vehemently disagree with is you equating their borderline conspiratorial and dare I say social fascist understanding of capitalism (I deliberately did not watch that highly recommended 'south korea is a dystopia' video because 'dystopia' videos these days are basically a gateway into weird convos about society being filled with degenerates or smth, it's no coincidence that such videos are often made by openly fascist or social fascist channels) to why they are short tempered.
I have pretty bad anger issues, all in my head. I don't necessarily lose my temper as often but I get pretty close to, and I have. You may call it petty bourgeois anger stemming from inaction and guilt in the face of genocide in Palestine, the war on the people of semi-feudal semi-colonial India, and I would agree with you. But the fact is that seeing Dalit people get lynched, women get raped in broad daylight, Muslims being lynched, seeing untouchability practiced around you, all this takes a toll. More importantly, this anger exists among the most oppressed sections of society and manifests as raging violence against the enemies of the people especially during uprisings. That anger is all to see on the tapes of Palestinian fighters during Operation Al Aqsa Flood.
I know that isn't the same as the above poster losing their temper because they think they have 'woken up' while others are 'asleep', I feel like you do believe that losing your temper often is a sign of not being Marxist or something. Not to mention, I do not think that liberals even get that angry very often. In fact most of the time they are too busy having 'civil' conversations and debates, and just feeling smug sympathy and pity. Maybe I'm oversharing, but most of the Palestine solidarity liberals shed pity tears in those marches before taking videos of the carnival style protests for their instagram. But I was standing there most of the time, almost about to burst into a fit of anger, or beat up a Zionist or white fascist asshole (I have never fought anyone and I would get my ass handed to me by anyone competent at it) in the vicinity. I was also alienated from my uni's solidarity group because I was constantly calling out liberal politics and Zionist normalising ideology, which also ended up slowly decreasing the number of people I was actually willing to talk to.
With regards to you talking about that piece of shit in the pol-sci class who doesn't regard Cambodians as human beings, the point isn't that you get some epic Marxist dunk. In fact if I had an outburst I would probably look 'lame' to people there and it would not satisfy my ego or anything.
Edit: I wanted to say this before but forgot to, but it is especially apt since I read that OP is a kid from Malaysia. Even if their anger stems from liberalism, that anger can still be a path for them to discover Marxism. It can be something that opens them up to revolution. Yeah sure maybe that's wishful thinking, but who cares?
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u/red_star_erika 4d ago
I lose my temper and I'm a capable Marxist.
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u/HeadCartoonist2626 4d ago
Feeling frustrated is natural for people who care about humanity. But OP talked about ranting to unreceptive audiences, having negative mental health consequences, and losing revolutionary optimism. These aren't useful outcomes for a Marxist and OP can channel their efforts better. The pragmatic answer is not to react from emotion and frustration, but to choose to respond in a thoughtful and logical manner. For OP's own sake and that of the broader effort.
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u/red_star_erika 4d ago
ranting to unreceptive audiences, having negative mental health consequences, and losing revolutionary optimism
these all happen to me on occasion. they are problems, yes, but not ones that are simply solved by virtue of being a Marxist.
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u/arfyhex 4d ago
There are a lot of good points here but I think the biggest problem that I forgot to mention is that I'm literally just a child. I'm turning 17 in a few months and so most of the people I talk to in real life are just other teenagers and it's literally against the rules to talk about politics in school.
I also live in Malaysia, where we are taught about how the British fought against the communists, so it's a lot more challenging to radicalise people here, let alone other children.
I lose my temper a lot probably because I'm a child that gets angry at everything. I think the solution I was looking for wasn't really related to politics but just meditation.
Sorry if I wasted anyone's time.
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u/Sea_Till9977 3d ago edited 3d ago
It is ok to be angry. But it is more important to channel that anger to productively becoming a Marxist, which also helps with turning frustration into clarity. Anger is good, but it can also paralyse someone. In my case, my anger acts as some sort of guilt coping mechanism (I'm complicit in the oppression of my Indian people but anger in a way makes me feel less guilty)
There is only one way forward. Marxism. In my months of Palestine solidarity organising, that is what I have realised. In my months of reading about the People's War in my country, that is what I have realised.
You have not wasted anyone's time. All I will say is lay off the videos from youtubers who ultimately want to create content out of suffering (under the guise of leftist video essays), and engage in Marxism. In fact, you could start with doing a deeper research into the history of the communist movement in Malaysia.
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u/urbaseddad Cyprus🇨🇾 3d ago
u/red_star_erika to me it seems that it is your position which led to OP's thought process being terminated in this instance, by reaching this very liberal conclusion. If Marxism cannot help you with frustration then waiting to grow up along with meditation is the only thing that remains.
Sorry if I wasted anyone's time.
No OP, I am sorry that we failed you this time.
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u/red_star_erika 3d ago
If Marxism cannot help you with frustration then waiting to grow up along with meditation is the only thing that remains.
this isn't what I believe and therefore, it isn't the logical conclusion of the position I espoused. you are the one failing this person by not engaging with what they said and instead choosing to scold me.
u/arfyhex being angry doesn't have to be a bad thing and like u/Sea_Till9977 says, Marxism can allow you to channel it where it is useful. I also want to add that you shouldn't shame yourself for being young since children and teens are capable of being more correct than adults. under socialist China, the youth were seen as political actors capable of criticizing adults with more power than them rather than people isolated from and incapable of understanding "the real world" (which is how they are treated under bourgeois society). you shouldn't replicate this oppressor position and use it to attack yourself.
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u/urbaseddad Cyprus🇨🇾 3d ago
I already engaged with what they said in the OP and they chose not to engage with me further but with u/HeadCartoonist2626 who espouses a similar line to you. This is a recurring pattern in the sub where new posters choose to engage with the thought-terminating / liberal posts over other ones, I guess because that's easier than thinking and self reflecting. While you obviously would not advocate for them to do meditation (that would be very obvious liberalism) I believe your position allowed their liberalism too much space, hence them reaching this conclusion.
u/Sea_Till9977 is more correct but themselves admit that some of their frustration manifesting as anger has a petty bourgeois origin. I am not sure everyone in this thread telling OP that it's okay to be angry or whatever understands the fundamental origin of OP's emotions, that being what I've been saying repeatedly, as to me was evident in their original post. I have faced the exact same frustrations u/Sea_Till9977 has faced in Palestine solidarity but again I attribute this to my lack of Marxism rather than my grasp of it. If I understood Marxism better it would have been much less frustrating because I would've known what to do instead of learning those things the hard way. Of course as I said in my initial response in some ways this is probably a natural stage for an aspiring Marxist to go through. The frustration itself means I am now urged to learn Marxism better and think in a Marxist way more. This I believe is exactly what u/Sea_Till9977 was referring to when they said the anger can be channeled productively. Since the beginning I've been advocating for OP to study Marxism while others have been telling them basically that there is nothing they can do about it (hence OP coming to meditation).
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u/red_star_erika 3d ago
I believe your position allowed their liberalism too much space, hence them reaching this conclusion.
but if my position is correct, which I think it is, I still should have said it although perhaps better elaborated on. my position is not that OP should give up.
what I took offense to was the implication that Marxism necessarily "solves" feelings of anger and frustration (I now know this is not your position but it is why I joined in this thread in the first place). some of my issues can be chalked up to me being petty-bourgeois and my shortcomings with Marxism (although like I said elsewhere, experiencing shortcomings as a Marxist comes with the territory). however, I also feel frustrated and get angry when I hear someone spout reactionary nonsense even if my logic anticipates this due to their class or national position. is this due to me having shortcomings as a Marxist? maybe. but I also get a similar reaction to things like being overstimulated so I am doubtful of this. plus, I think my feelings of anger in the face of reactionary thought could be an asset if I use it appropriately and doesn't have to be a bad thing that needs solving entirely. maybe OP's anger can be resolved by being a better Marxist. but that is just a guess on your part. if it isn't as simple as that such as in my case, I don't want Marxism being sold as something it's not.
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u/hairymf- 3d ago
I’ve read this whole thread and I’m very confused on how you’re defining liberalism. I’m new and from America so that term has lost all meaning so I’d appreciate it if you could give me a definition so I can understand the argument.
What makes a post liberal?
Is it supposed to be the antithesis to Marxism or something?
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u/IncompetentFoliage 3d ago
Liberalism says that bourgeois democracy, bourgeois freedoms and free enterprise are the prerequisites of progress, the general welfare and social harmony, which arise spontaneously out of the pursuit of economic self-interest by individuals. There are a lot of references to liberalism in this thread, but one of the ways it's being used here is to call out the individualistic tendency to do small things that make no real difference in the world, although they might make you feel like a good person, or hawking “your truth” on the marketplace of ideas. The term “liberalism” is also used in an unrelated (or indirectly related) sense in a well-known essay by Mao Tse-tung to refer to a tendency toward laxness in political work.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm
Both kinds of liberalism can also take the form of avoiding conflict, such as shying away from criticizing wrong ideas, defending the right of fascists to speak, tone policing (a very typical manifestation of bourgeois formalism), etc.
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u/hedwig_kiesler 4d ago
Maybe focus your energy into learning? I'm sure getting a better grasp at how capitalism — and especially imperialism — operates and their reflections in our consciousnesses will help with that. I'm stressing imperialism because it looks like you're confusing proletarians and labor-aristocrats. This comment gets at the heart of it.
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u/inefficientguyaround 4d ago
saying capitalism is better comes forth with being afraid of the legacy of communism, which pretty much means anti-sovietism, anti-communist propaganda towards people who doesn't know what communism actually means, and their most common argument "commies killed billions".
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u/PlayfulWeekend1394 Maoist 1d ago
Punching a punching bag is a great stress/anger reliver, and a solid work out as well. Medical raps and a pillow tied to a wall are a great supplement for gloves and a bag if you need.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/urbaseddad Cyprus🇨🇾 3d ago
Wow, clearly the South Korean NIS needs to hire better people because not only are you a nazi troll advocating for anyone who doesn't consider north Koreans to be subhuman to be harassed but also seem to have very bad literacy skills since you seem to have no idea what OP wrote.
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