Apple to halt Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch Ultra 2 sales in the US this week Apple Watch

https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/18/apple-halting-apple-watch-series-9-and-apple-watch-ultra-2-sales/

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95% Upvoted

It’s not the general “idea” of an O2 monitor on your wrist that’s patented. Ideas can’t be patented (in the US). It’s the specific implementation. Two companies could create a wearable O2 monitor with totally different implementations and each have a patent.

That’s not to say that there aren’t bullshit parents. Or vague ones. But this company actually does sell a product, so they aren’t simply a patent troll. They’ve been accused of stealing Apple secrets to make it though, so there’s been a lot of back and forth… It’s a mess.

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u/Sylvurphlame Dec 18 '23

Yeah. I got as far as verifying Masimo is a legit practicing entity and then realized I could not armchair this one. So we’ll see how it shakes out.

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u/freaktheclown Dec 18 '23

I wonder if they’ll remove the sensor in the US versions to put them back on sale. Would suck but also not like it would make the Watch unusable. I can’t imagine most people are buying it for that.

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u/turtleship_2006 Dec 18 '23

remove the sensor in the US

Or software disable it

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u/freaktheclown Dec 18 '23

I wasn’t sure if they would be in compliance just software disabling it, but if they can then probably so

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u/Practical_Cattle_933 Dec 18 '23

Would it not be the beginning of a huge customer lawsuit? They were sold a device that can do this and that. You can’t remove a feature you used to sell the device.

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u/freaktheclown Dec 18 '23

It would only apply to devices sold going forward. Existing devices aren’t affected.

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u/Sylvurphlame Dec 18 '23

If they lose the decisions (and the investable trial and appeals process that will trigger) then removing any infringing tech from series 10 while software locking the series 9 would be an option for compliance

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u/IPCTech Dec 18 '23

Better come with a partial refund for people who bought the watch with the feature

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u/Sylvurphlame Dec 18 '23

Yeah right. We both know that won’t happen. Apple will spin it so people start a damn grass roots campaign at Congress.

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u/puterTDI Dec 18 '23

What is different between the series 9 and prior series that makes this one an infringement?

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u/Sylvurphlame Dec 18 '23 edited Dec 18 '23

Not gonna lie, I didn’t read this specific article as I’ve read some on it in general.

Not really sure? But I thought that was odd as well. I would tend to think they’re either (in descending order of likelihood) 1. actually targeting all models with SpO₂ measurement or 2. Masimo did a tear down and found something on the Series 9/Ultra 2 that wasn’t reverse engineered cleanly enough or 3. just pissed about the failed partnership and unrealized revenue possibilities, and just trying their luck with the current model

Since Apple immediately discontinues previous Watch models (aside from SE and refurb) every year, it could be the S9/U2 is also just the only available target as it’s the only one being currently sold. Perhaps they don’t have the legal standing to seek software lockout on older models? People could just not update their devices as well so that might not be viewed as effective.

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u/puterTDI Dec 18 '23

I'm pretty sure disabling functionality on existing devices would cause new legal troubles. I don't think that will happen.

My honest bet is that apple either ends up licensing the tech, or they take what they have and alter it in some way to make the patents not apply and then include that in the apple watch 10.

I do think it's pretty tough to argue this patent as being valid unless there's something about the patent that is necessary for it to work while worn on the wrist. SpO2 monitors that attach to the finger are VERY old and patents are well into the public domain. If this is really just basically a finger based SpO2 sensor strapped to the wrist then I question whether the patent should have been issued, which may be why apple is fighting it.

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u/Sylvurphlame Dec 18 '23

Yeah. I wasn’t properly considering that the SpO₂ measurement isn’t pure software. It gets stickier when it’s also a hardware feature.

They will likely alter the sensor enough to get around it for the Series 10. Would think they would have done so for Series 9. It seems odd that’s the only one called out specifically. Maybe the hypothetical/presumptive reverse engineering wasn’t quite clean enough?

I haven’t gotten too far into a research, but it could turn out to be an overly broad patent. Someone was commenting that Masimo has had patents invalidated before.

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u/biggsteve81 Dec 28 '23

There is no difference, besides that Apple no longer imports the series 6-8 watches that also infringe. Apple has been banned from importing technology that infringes on a US company's patent.