r/StarWars • u/Xenezort_ • Dec 13 '20

In only 2 years, Hayden Christensen will be the same age as Darth Vader in A New Hope. Meta

Hayden Christensen was born in 1981, so he's 39 now. Anakin Skywalker was born in 41 BBY (Before the Battle of Yavin, a.k.a. A New Hope). I just thought that's crazy.

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u/Crk416 Dec 13 '20

Yes to everything but the last sentence. I really don’t want them to meet face to face in the series.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '20

In Episode IV, Vader says something about how he should have killed Obi-wan when he had the chance.

I took that to mean that at some point after becoming Vader he did beat Obi-wan. Obviously he can't have been referring to his loss on the Mustafar system, at least I didn't think that made sense. So he had to have run into him some other time, beat him, and just decided to let him go.

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u/ElizaDouchecanoe Dec 13 '20

Well shit you just made more sense of it than I could, I keep latching onto the line in ANH, When we last met I was the learner but now I'm the master. That line kind of throws it off a bit...

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u/-Mister_Hands- Dec 13 '20

Well he was still learning from Papa Palps for a while, but by the end of his tenure, during the original trilogy era I think he was already trying to subvert and overtake him.

Maybe he now considers himself a master of the dark side. Or maybe he was referring to his secret apprentice!

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u/Drayko_Sanbar Dec 13 '20

When we last met I was the learner but now I'm the master

I had the same concern, but the other day I was reminded that the line is actually "When I left you," which doesn't necessarily imply their last meeting, just when they stopped being on the same team.

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u/Johnny_Poppyseed Dec 14 '20

That basically settles it imo

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u/ElizaDouchecanoe Dec 14 '20

Ah that helps me. thank you, I hadnt bothered to look up the actual line myb.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '20

he still could have been training with the dark side by the time they meet in between RotS and SW

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '20

I honestly wonder what was in Lucas' mind for that dialogue. AFAIK he has never talked about it, and it's hard to believe nobody ever asked. He's no longer involved in Star Wars anymore so I wonder if it will even play into this new series.

The only really new thing I've seen around that time was in a comic, where Obi-wan contacts Anakin after he redeems himself and Luke leaves, to teach him how to be a force ghost. But even that, I feel it deserves so much more than a few panels in a comic.

I guess this is why the OT is revered, even though people complain about VI on that too a lot of the time. There are lots of small details that were placed everywhere.

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u/waitingtodiesoon Luke Skywalker Dec 13 '20

Probably forgot about it or didn't really plan it out that far. Darth Vader being Anakin Skywalker wasn't created until TESB. Somehow he forgot Leia remembered Padme.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '20

Just a throwaway line, no real meaning to it

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u/I-like-spoilers Dec 14 '20

In Episode IV, Vader says something about how he should have killed Obi-wan when he had the chance.

Vader doesn't say anything like this at all in IV.

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u/rharrison Ahsoka Tano Dec 13 '20

Wait, what? He says "we meet again at last, when I left you I was but the learner." and "you should not have come back." Why are people upvoting this?

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u/Bobert_Fico Dec 14 '20

Yeah, this is the script:

INT. DEATH STAR - HALLWAY LEADING TO MAIN FORWARD BAY

           Ben hurries along one of the tunnels leading to the hangar 
           where the pirateship waits. Just before he reaches the hangar, 
           Darth Vader steps into view at the end of the tunnel, not 
           ten feet away. Vader lights his saber. Ben also ignites his 
           and steps slowly forward.

                                 VADER
                     I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. 
                     We meet again, at last. The circle 
                     is now complete.

           Ben Kenobi moves with elegant ease into a classical offensive 
           position. The fearsome Dark Knight takes a defensive stance.

                                 VADER
                     When I left you, I was but the 
                     learner; now I am the master.

                                 BEN
                     Only a master of evil, Darth.

           The two Galactic warriors stand perfectly still for a few 
           moments, sizing each other up and waiting for the right 
           moment. Ben seems to be under increasing pressure and strain, 
           as if an invisible weight were being placed upon him. He 
           shakes his head and, blinking, tries to clear his eyes.

           Ben makes a sudden lunge at the huge warrior but is checked 
           by a lightning movement of The Sith. A masterful slash stroke 
           by Vader is blocked by the old Jedi. Another of the Jedi's 
           blows is blocked, then countered. Ben moves around the Dark 
           Lord and starts backing into the massive starship hangar. 
           The two powerful warriors stand motionless for a few moments 
           with laser swords locked in mid-air, creating a low buzzing 
           sound.

                                 VADER
                     Your powers are weak, old man.

                                 BEN
                     You can't win, Darth. If you strike 
                     me down, I shall become more powerful 
                     than you can possibly imagine.

           Their lightsabers continue to meet in combat.

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u/Flight_Harbinger Dec 13 '20

What? That line from ANH is practically spelling out their last encounter at Mustafar. Obi Wan left him for dead.

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u/Axel_Rod Dec 13 '20

Yes but considering how massively Anakin lost that fight, it wouldn't make sense to say "I should have killed you when I had the chance" when he most certainly did not have that chance.

It's like saying I shoulda kicked your ass to the guy who knocked you out.

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u/Flight_Harbinger Dec 13 '20

So I had to look it up in case I was misremembering, because I do remember Vader saying "you should have killed me when you had the chance" but I just went over the script and there actually isn't a line by vader or obi wan referring to their last encounter other than "I was but the learner" line. Very weird.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '20

I was thinking maybe I misremembered too. I don't know, maybe we should all just rewatch the movie.

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u/Shrodax Dec 14 '20

Maybe Obi-Wan and Vader do meet sometime between the PT and OT? It could actually enhance ANH and fix a couple nagging plot holes.

During the duel in ROTS, Anakin and Obi-Wan are going all out until Obi-Wan dismembers 3 of Anakin's limbs and leaves him burning alive in lava. Yet in ANH, their duel is some light-hearted sparring in contrast. Why would Vader hold back in that fight? Seeing the man who cursed him to live in a mobile hyperbaric chamber should make Vader unleash every single ounce of rage he has.

Unless... They met again previously and already had that fight. Vader wins, but maybe that fight makes them both cool down and they develop a Professor X and Magneto frenemy relationship? That'd explain why their duel in ANH is fairly relaxed. And why when Vader senses Obi-Wan's presence, his tone is more curious instead of angry.

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u/Thunder-Rat Dec 14 '20

Id assume, with all the out of nowhere rage against Obi Wan, he probably at least thought about it on occasion. He would have had plenty of chances.

Of course, they're probably going to ignore all these OT moments the same way GL did when writing the prequels (Anakin apparently wanting Luke to have his saber which also implies he knew he had a son, Leia remembering her mother, the fact that Obi Wan doesn't recognize R2 or 3P0, etc)

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u/deerl0rd Dec 13 '20

I don't either, but IIRC, Kathleen Kennedy said something about the series being "the rematch of the century," so I assume they'll meet up at some point

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u/HagBolder Dec 13 '20

But didn't they already have their rematch in A New Hope?

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u/Axel_Rod Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20

Obi-Wan wasn't trying to beat Vader, he was holding him off long enough for Luke to escape, then he allowed himself to be killed so he could reach out to Luke as a force-ghost. He had no intentions of even trying to win, and even had he won he would still be stranded on the Death Star full of hundreds of thousands of Storm Troopers and Sidious himself.

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u/ThePortalsOfFrenzy Dec 13 '20

he would still be stranded on the Death Star full of hundreds of thousands of Storm Troopers and Sidious himself.

The Emperor wasn't on the DS at that time, but your point still stands.

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u/Axel_Rod Dec 13 '20

Was it ever confirmed where he was outside of the EU? He wasn't introduced yet, so I figured he'd have been in his throne room. I know there's books in the EU that touch on it but those aren't canon anymore.

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u/ThePortalsOfFrenzy Dec 13 '20

Don't know. But in that film we learn that Tarkin received word that the Emperor had dissolved the senate. It would stand to reason that Palps was on Coruscant at the time.

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u/Axel_Rod Dec 13 '20

That would actually make a lot of sense.

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u/waitingtodiesoon Luke Skywalker Dec 13 '20

EU legends was never official canon. The Emperor wasn't on the first death star at all.

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u/Bobert_Fico Dec 14 '20

EU legends was canon under the G-, C-, etc. canon system, but in the EU Palpatine was never on the first Death Star anyway.

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u/waitingtodiesoon Luke Skywalker Dec 14 '20

EU legends was never official canon, but canon with itself in a parallel universe.

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html

“For me and my training here at Lucasfilm, working with George, he and I always thought the Expanded Universe was just that. It was an expanded universe. Basically it’s stories that are really fun and really exciting, but they’re a view on Star Wars, not necessarily canon to him.That was the way it was from the day I walked into Lucasfilm with him all through Clone Wars, everything we worked on, he felt the Clone Wars series and his movies were what was actually the reality of it all, the canon, then there was everything else. So it wasn’t a big dynamic shift for me mentally when there was this big announcement saying the EU is now Legends. I’m like, ‘Okay, well, it’s kind of the same thing to me because that the way I work.’”

–Dave Filoni, ComicBook.com, September 2017

"I don't read that stuff, I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try and keep it consistent. The way I do it is they have a Star Wars encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it and see if it has already been used. When I said other people could make thier own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have TWO universes: My Universe and than this other one. They try to make THIER universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

George Lucas, August, 2005

"There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.”

– George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001

Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it’s hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there’s the TV show and then there’s all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn’t have anything to do with each other. So I said, ‘OK, go ahead.’”

– George Lucas, Total Film, May 2007

“The most definitive canon of the Star Wars universe is encompassed by the feature films and television productions in which George Lucas is directly involved. The movies and the Clone Wars television series are what he and his handpicked writers reference when adding cinematic adventures to the Star Wars oeuvre. But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exists parallel to the one he directly oversees. […] Though these [Expanded Universe] stories may get his stamp of approval, they don’t enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.”

-Pablo Hidalgo, Star Wars: The Essential Reader’s Companion, October 2nd, 2012

“I did not have direct contact with George about Star Wars continuity. Dave Filoni, who worked on Clone Wars, definitely did. So for me, the spirit of George’s work is what’s in the films, and it doesn’t go too far beyond that.”

–Leland Chee, SyFy’s “Fandom Files #13”, January 2018

[Lucas’] canon – and when I say ‘his canon’, I’m talking about what he was doing in the films and what he was doing in The Clone Wars – was hugely important. But what we were doing in the books really wasn’t on his radar.”

–Leland Chee, SyFy’s “Fandom Files #13”, January 2018

"I think people over emphasize the importance of the canon level. The intent of the canon levels was, as the main intent was 'if someones looking for the ships from a film, they can than use those fields to check for them only in the films,and thus separate that from what was in the EU. So we can look at it case by case. I think there is an over emphasis of what those fields mean and what they represent".

-Leland Chee

"That 'level of canon' thus helps in terms of bookkeeping. Those 'canon levels' are for the holocron."

-Pablo Hidalgo

​ForceCast #273: The Galaxy Is Reading - Interview with Leland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo, 2013 Starts at about the 1 hour mark so 1:00 - 1:02 mark

"The G/C/S-level canon stuff is a construct specifically for the Holocron. Non-Holocron users would have no idea what this stuff even means. and I would say most of the people who use the Holocron don't use the field, instead looking specifically to the source of the material. *Individual entries are not broken down by canon level."

-Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator, 2005

"Understand, that the Holocron's primary purpose is to keep track of Star Wars continuity for Lucas Licensing , and to some degree Lucas Online. To my knowledge, it is only rarely used for production purposes."

-Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator, 2005

'And what goes in the blank timeline spaces of the Film Only universe - can we never know the history or background of that Star Wars universe like we can in the EU Star Wars universe?'

"Nothing. That's why it's film only."

-Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator, 2007

"What George did with the films and The Clone Wars was pretty much his universe ,” Chee said. “He didn’t really have that much concern for what we were doing in the books and games. So the Expanded Universe was very much separate."

-Leland Chee, 2017 - SYFY WIRE

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u/GenXer1977 Dec 13 '20

Kathleen Kennedy said this would feature the rematch of the century so I’m afraid it is going to happen.